Page 12 of 14

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 20, 2021, 8:48 am
by BJ
Only a fool doesn’t know the Greenhouse is hosted in North Korea and funded by Vladimir Putin.

Ironically Bernie Sanders writes a lot of the articles. You can ascertain this by Greeneyed claiming that story was a load of BS.

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 20, 2021, 9:27 am
by gergreg
Geee I hope they can clean up some of the behavior in and around politics/parliament house, but I'm not holding my breath.

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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 20, 2021, 9:35 am
by Sterlk
BJ wrote: February 20, 2021, 8:48 am Only a fool doesn’t know the Greenhouse is hosted in North Korea and funded by Vladimir Putin.
Psssh - there's obviously a CCP link. The arrangement is clear - Huawei subsidises hosting costs, and in return Xi Jinping gets all our personal information.

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 20, 2021, 10:36 am
by gangrenous
Xi knows I’m Lucy? Bugger.

The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 20, 2021, 10:37 am
by gangrenous
gergreg wrote:Geee I hope they can clean up some of the behavior in and around politics/parliament house, but I'm not holding my breath.

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Could start with the PM. Don’t know who you’re gonna replace him with though...

While on the topic:
Leader runs away for a nice holiday in the warm while his constituents face disaster. Why does that seem familiar? https://www.news.com.au/world/north-ame ... a926fb7a48

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 20, 2021, 10:40 am
by gergreg
gangrenous wrote:
gergreg wrote:Geee I hope they can clean up some of the behavior in and around politics/parliament house, but I'm not holding my breath.

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Could start with the PM. Don’t know who you’re gonna replace him with though...
I think Birmingham is having a red hot go at it.

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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 20, 2021, 10:49 am
by gangrenous
An atheist moderate who I don’t recall involved in too much dumb crap...

I’m listening

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 22, 2021, 8:50 pm
by Mickey_Raider
Yes big tech and their nefarious algorithms may be unhealthy but my contempt for Rupert Murdoch simply cannot be surpassed.

I find it really hard to support any cause which assists him.

To that end...carry on.

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 22, 2021, 9:04 pm
by -TW-
Mickey_Raider wrote:Yes big tech and their nefarious algorithms may be unhealthy but my contempt for Rupert Murdoch simply cannot be surpassed.

I find it really hard to support any cause which assists him.

To that end...carry on.
I'm happy for a lack of articles in my newsfeed whilst Facebook are telling him to go **** himself via the government

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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 23, 2021, 2:39 pm
by greeneyed
Government amends proposed code, Facebook to return Australian news sites and links: https://7news.com.au/technology/faceboo ... -c-2223181

A lot of bias in the reporting... but looks like Facebook has ensured amendments which ensure that the value to news organisations in free advertising is properly taken into account in reaching commercial deals in the space.

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 23, 2021, 2:40 pm
by The Nickman
Dammit, I don't want news back

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 23, 2021, 4:53 pm
by -TW-
Yeah news sites are claiming "Facebook backed down"

Like **** they did, they brokered a deal that suited them. I doubt they really care if news sites can share or not.

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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 23, 2021, 4:53 pm
by gangrenous
Dammit, I don’t want Craig Kelly back.

Leave politics properly jerk!

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 23, 2021, 7:23 pm
by Botman
-TW- wrote: February 23, 2021, 4:53 pm Yeah news sites are claiming "Facebook backed down"

Like **** they did, they brokered a deal that suited them. I doubt they really care if news sites can share or not.

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it ended exactly as everyone predicted... the Aus Gov agreeing to make concessions. :lol:

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 24, 2021, 4:07 am
by Coastalraider
I wonder how much of that decision was actually driven by media moguls who undoubtably lost a massive percentage of their daily click throughs and realised they just lost a huge chuck of their digital advertising revenue?

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 24, 2021, 6:26 am
by gergreg
gergreg wrote:Geee I hope they can clean up some of the behavior in and around politics/parliament house, but I'm not holding my breath.

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Saw yesterday that a fourth lady has accused the same former staffer of sexual/indecent assault. If it was a football player he'd be named and shamed by now, with journalists camped on his front lawn 24/7.

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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 25, 2021, 8:56 am
by Dr Zaius
I don't think that Facebook are innocent in all of this. They've set their platform up to make news feeds an integral part of the experience, and they certainly benefit from it. While it's an n=1, my use of Facebook has significantly reduced since they canned news articles. I probably spend about a quarter of the time a day on it. Instead I've been using news agency apps.

It's also disingenuous to blame this solely on Murdoch. I can't stand the guy and I rarely read his publications, but I do read ABC and SMH, and listen to podcasts by SMH and Guardian and they are all very pro this. Quality journalism is vital and expensive. Revenue has to come from somewhere, and Facebook and media companies have a symbiotic relationship. Facebook definitely benefits financially from news agencies, it's only fair that some of that revenue returns to media.

It's also disingenuous to claim an outright victory for Facebook. They are coming to the table, and will pony up some dough.

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 25, 2021, 9:05 am
by Northern Raider
Dr Zaius wrote: February 25, 2021, 8:56 am I don't think that Facebook are innocent in all of this. They've set their platform up to make news feeds an integral part of the experience, and they certainly benefit from it. While it's an n=1, my use of Facebook has significantly reduced since they canned news articles. I probably spend about a quarter of the time a day on it. Instead I've been using news agency apps.

It's also disingenuous to blame this solely on Murdoch. I can't stand the guy and I rarely read his publications, but I do read ABC and SMH, and listen to podcasts by SMH and Guardian and they are all very pro this. Quality journalism is vital and expensive. Revenue has to come from somewhere, and Facebook and media companies have a symbiotic relationship. Facebook definitely benefits financially from news agencies, it's only fair that some of that revenue returns to media.

It's also disingenuous to claim an outright victory for Facebook. They are coming to the table, and will pony up some dough.
Thays an important point. Quality journalism has gone the way of the dodo in the social media age. It's all about sensationalism and click bait now. You read articles and it feels like they're written by interns and basement bloggers. Wouldn't be surprised if it was mostly created by automated software. Somebody keys in a few keys points of a story and it spits out a completed article.

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 25, 2021, 9:41 am
by The Nickman
Dr Zaius wrote: February 25, 2021, 8:56 am I don't think that Facebook are innocent in all of this. They've set their platform up to make news feeds an integral part of the experience, and they certainly benefit from it. While it's an n=1, my use of Facebook has significantly reduced since they canned news articles. I probably spend about a quarter of the time a day on it. Instead I've been using news agency apps.

It's also disingenuous to blame this solely on Murdoch. I can't stand the guy and I rarely read his publications, but I do read ABC and SMH, and listen to podcasts by SMH and Guardian and they are all very pro this. Quality journalism is vital and expensive. Revenue has to come from somewhere, and Facebook and media companies have a symbiotic relationship. Facebook definitely benefits financially from news agencies, it's only fair that some of that revenue returns to media.

It's also disingenuous to claim an outright victory for Facebook. They are coming to the table, and will pony up some dough.
Very good post, I'm actually getting quite tired of the whole anti-Murdoch discourse that regularly happens in political discussions these days.

They might have a right bias (just like the ABC leans left), but the reason the Liberal party is in power, has been for the majority of the last two decades and will be for a fair while yet, is not because of the Murdoch media and not because of Clive Palmer or political preferences or any of that garbage.

It's largely due to the utter incompetence and failure to provide relevant opposition of the Australian Labor Party.

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 25, 2021, 10:41 am
by -TW-
But Bill Shorten told anyone who would listen he was going to be the next prime minister?!?!!

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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 25, 2021, 11:07 am
by Mickey_Raider
The Nickman wrote: February 25, 2021, 9:41 am
Dr Zaius wrote: February 25, 2021, 8:56 am I don't think that Facebook are innocent in all of this. They've set their platform up to make news feeds an integral part of the experience, and they certainly benefit from it. While it's an n=1, my use of Facebook has significantly reduced since they canned news articles. I probably spend about a quarter of the time a day on it. Instead I've been using news agency apps.

It's also disingenuous to blame this solely on Murdoch. I can't stand the guy and I rarely read his publications, but I do read ABC and SMH, and listen to podcasts by SMH and Guardian and they are all very pro this. Quality journalism is vital and expensive. Revenue has to come from somewhere, and Facebook and media companies have a symbiotic relationship. Facebook definitely benefits financially from news agencies, it's only fair that some of that revenue returns to media.

It's also disingenuous to claim an outright victory for Facebook. They are coming to the table, and will pony up some dough.
Very good post, I'm actually getting quite tired of the whole anti-Murdoch discourse that regularly happens in political discussions these days.

They might have a right bias (just like the ABC leans left), but the reason the Liberal party is in power, has been for the majority of the last two decades and will be for a fair while yet, is not because of the Murdoch media and not because of Clive Palmer or political preferences or any of that garbage.

It's largely due to the utter incompetence and failure to provide relevant opposition of the Australian Labor Party.
Have to strongly disagree on this point here.

When Murdoch has a dominant print media monopoly such as he does, it has significant ramifications, especially during the febrile atmosphere of an election campaign.

For example, consider the example of a flagship rag such as the Daily Telegraph in every cafe in Greater Sydney screaming misleading and sensationalist headlines about retiree taxes.

Now I am considerably more educated than your average punter on the street and as a law/politics/policy/current affairs junkee, I have an actual understanding of franking credit cash refunds.

And so I was aghast when having to explain to people I know whom exist on a Murdoch diet that no, as a retired person they were not going to be subject to a tax on account of being a retiree.

The point is that relentlessly reductionist and misleading campaigning by Murdoch has massive consequences and I think the current sentiment has been catalysed by Rudds petition as well as the awareness raised by same.

And I haven’t even begun on Sky after dark.

I also always see people drawing some false inverse equivalence between the ABC and Murdoch media, as if the latter is a mere counterweight.

This is absurd. ABC simply does not even come close to campaigning against the LNP. Whereas to suggest that Murdoch doesn’t campaign against Labor would be satire.

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 25, 2021, 11:10 am
by the bone
I see it mostly as a victory for Facebook. They weren’t objecting to coughing up dough as part of a commercial arrangement, they were objecting to being subject to a forced negotiation with mandatory arbitration if a deal couldn’t be done. Those provisions of the legislation were changed and Facebook can now enter into arrangements as they see fit, with the ability to take news off their platform if a deal can’t be reached.

From a PR perspective though, Facebook’s stunt to remove the news (and some other content caught in the crossfire) did them no favours in the court of public opinion.

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 25, 2021, 11:24 am
by the bone
Mickey_Raider wrote: February 25, 2021, 11:07 am
The Nickman wrote: February 25, 2021, 9:41 am
Dr Zaius wrote: February 25, 2021, 8:56 am I don't think that Facebook are innocent in all of this. They've set their platform up to make news feeds an integral part of the experience, and they certainly benefit from it. While it's an n=1, my use of Facebook has significantly reduced since they canned news articles. I probably spend about a quarter of the time a day on it. Instead I've been using news agency apps.

It's also disingenuous to blame this solely on Murdoch. I can't stand the guy and I rarely read his publications, but I do read ABC and SMH, and listen to podcasts by SMH and Guardian and they are all very pro this. Quality journalism is vital and expensive. Revenue has to come from somewhere, and Facebook and media companies have a symbiotic relationship. Facebook definitely benefits financially from news agencies, it's only fair that some of that revenue returns to media.

It's also disingenuous to claim an outright victory for Facebook. They are coming to the table, and will pony up some dough.
Very good post, I'm actually getting quite tired of the whole anti-Murdoch discourse that regularly happens in political discussions these days.

They might have a right bias (just like the ABC leans left), but the reason the Liberal party is in power, has been for the majority of the last two decades and will be for a fair while yet, is not because of the Murdoch media and not because of Clive Palmer or political preferences or any of that garbage.

It's largely due to the utter incompetence and failure to provide relevant opposition of the Australian Labor Party.
Have to strongly disagree on this point here.

When Murdoch has a dominant print media monopoly such as he does, it has significant ramifications, especially during the febrile atmosphere of an election campaign.

For example, consider the example of a flagship rag such as the Daily Telegraph in every cafe in Greater Sydney screaming misleading and sensationalist headlines about retiree taxes.

Now I am considerably more educated than your average punter on the street and as a law/politics/policy/current affairs junkee, I have an actual understanding of franking credit cash refunds.

And so I was aghast when having to explain to people I know whom exist on a Murdoch diet that no, as a retired person they were not going to be subject to a tax on account of being a retiree.

The point is that relentlessly reductionist and misleading campaigning by Murdoch has massive consequences and I think the current sentiment has been catalysed by Rudds petition as well as the awareness raised by same.

And I haven’t even begun on Sky after dark.

I also always see people drawing some false inverse equivalence between the ABC and Murdoch media, as if the latter is a mere counterweight.

This is absurd. ABC simply does not even come close to campaigning against the LNP. Whereas to suggest that Murdoch doesn’t campaign against Labor would be satire.
Yeah I agree with Mickey. Murdoch has an incredible influence over public opinion and politics in Australia, and it’s dangerous to underestimate that influence.

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 25, 2021, 11:28 am
by The Nickman
It's not the be-all and end-all though, my whole points is that the "The Liberals only win because of Murdoch" argument that now seems to dominate all political discourse is just garbage. The pure incompetence of the Labor party needs to bear a large portion of the brunt here.

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 25, 2021, 11:37 am
by the bone
The Nickman wrote: February 25, 2021, 11:28 am It's not the be-all and end-all though, my whole points is that the "The Liberals only win because of Murdoch" argument that now seems to dominate all political discourse is just garbage. The pure incompetence of the Labor party needs to bear a large portion of the brunt here.
Absolutely fair point. It’s not one or the other; Murdoch influence, Labor incompetence, and a number of other factors have helped the LNP maintain power at the federal level for the last two decades.

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 25, 2021, 11:41 am
by The Nickman
the bone wrote: February 25, 2021, 11:37 am
The Nickman wrote: February 25, 2021, 11:28 am It's not the be-all and end-all though, my whole points is that the "The Liberals only win because of Murdoch" argument that now seems to dominate all political discourse is just garbage. The pure incompetence of the Labor party needs to bear a large portion of the brunt here.
Absolutely fair point. It’s not one or the other; Murdoch influence, Labor incompetence, and a number of other factors have helped the LNP maintain power at the federal level for the last two decades.
I never for a second said it was one or the other. I just said I'm tired of it dominating political discussions like it's the only factor involved.

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 25, 2021, 11:42 am
by the bone
The Nickman wrote: February 25, 2021, 11:41 am
the bone wrote: February 25, 2021, 11:37 am
The Nickman wrote: February 25, 2021, 11:28 am It's not the be-all and end-all though, my whole points is that the "The Liberals only win because of Murdoch" argument that now seems to dominate all political discourse is just garbage. The pure incompetence of the Labor party needs to bear a large portion of the brunt here.
Absolutely fair point. It’s not one or the other; Murdoch influence, Labor incompetence, and a number of other factors have helped the LNP maintain power at the federal level for the last two decades.
I never for a second said it was one or the other.
I never for a second said you said it was one or the other

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 25, 2021, 11:42 am
by The Nickman
the bone wrote: February 25, 2021, 11:42 am
The Nickman wrote: February 25, 2021, 11:41 am
the bone wrote: February 25, 2021, 11:37 am
The Nickman wrote: February 25, 2021, 11:28 am It's not the be-all and end-all though, my whole points is that the "The Liberals only win because of Murdoch" argument that now seems to dominate all political discourse is just garbage. The pure incompetence of the Labor party needs to bear a large portion of the brunt here.
Absolutely fair point. It’s not one or the other; Murdoch influence, Labor incompetence, and a number of other factors have helped the LNP maintain power at the federal level for the last two decades.
I never for a second said it was one or the other.
I never for a second said you said it was one or the other
You are.

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 25, 2021, 11:43 am
by the bone
The Nickman wrote: February 25, 2021, 11:42 am
the bone wrote: February 25, 2021, 11:42 am
The Nickman wrote: February 25, 2021, 11:41 am
the bone wrote: February 25, 2021, 11:37 am
The Nickman wrote: February 25, 2021, 11:28 am It's not the be-all and end-all though, my whole points is that the "The Liberals only win because of Murdoch" argument that now seems to dominate all political discourse is just garbage. The pure incompetence of the Labor party needs to bear a large portion of the brunt here.
Absolutely fair point. It’s not one or the other; Murdoch influence, Labor incompetence, and a number of other factors have helped the LNP maintain power at the federal level for the last two decades.
I never for a second said it was one or the other.
I never for a second said you said it was one or the other
You are.
Say wot.

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 25, 2021, 11:53 am
by The Nickman
No I didn't.

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 25, 2021, 11:54 am
by the bone
👀

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 25, 2021, 12:37 pm
by Mickey_Raider
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-25/ ... e/13186724

This is a great article which provides further insight into my recent macroeconomics dissertations on this thread.

Pay particular attention to the destructive, neoliberal mythical construct of NAIRU whereby a so called “natural” level of unemployment is posited to exist where “merely”) hundreds of thousands of people are deliberately kept under the poverty line as a policy choice.

It also discusses what I’ve been trying to explain about the real limits to government spending not being some figure on a balance sheet but the real resources available to a country (especially cf the criminal levels of profligacy in human capital by having such huge numbers of people sitting deliberately idle and unproductive); as well as inflationary pressures.

When Frydenburg talks about “6%” unemployment resembling something approaching normalcy, anyone who understands macro should be completely incredulous and outraged.

The deficits should be increased as much as is necessary to fund a locally administered jobs transition program to get people who want to work, into work. The private sector is not the only sector whom can employ people, and most people understand that.

This policy platform is a logical corollary of understanding that so much of what most people believe about the so called national debt, “taxpayerism” and the purportedly omnipresent (but never materialising) sovereign debt crisis; is seriously misleading and misunderstood.

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 25, 2021, 1:10 pm
by Dr Zaius
The Nickman wrote:It's not the be-all and end-all though, my whole points is that the "The Liberals only win because of Murdoch" argument that now seems to dominate all political discourse is just garbage. The pure incompetence of the Labor party needs to bear a large portion of the brunt here.
I don't think that we should understate the toxic effect that Murdoch has had on the political landscape though. Particularly climate change. No one person should hold that level of influence in media.

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 25, 2021, 2:43 pm
by papabear
https://www.news.com.au/finance/money/c ... f6533582ac

This is disgusting.

Honestly, If NSW tried to pull this Bull I would vote that govt out of office.

Are QLDers that out of touch that they continue to support a government that not only bludges off NSW but now unashamadly lies to continue to bludge of NSW.

Honestly, the only disappointing this is NSW is being so soft about this, if I were NSW premier, I would consider further action (in whatever form that may be). Honestly, at the very least, moving forward NSW should not let anyone who resides in QLD fly in through sydney, atleast this way we dont continue to pay for something QLDers are not going to pay for.

If you cant even keep a promise with someone elses money, what kind of person are you.

Honestly, not much surprises me in politics any more, but this has disgusted me.

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Posted: February 25, 2021, 2:44 pm
by papabear
Mickey_Raider wrote: February 25, 2021, 12:37 pm https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-02-25/ ... e/13186724

This is a great article which provides further insight into my recent macroeconomics dissertations on this thread.

Pay particular attention to the destructive, neoliberal mythical construct of NAIRU whereby a so called “natural” level of unemployment is posited to exist where “merely”) hundreds of thousands of people are deliberately kept under the poverty line as a policy choice.

It also discusses what I’ve been trying to explain about the real limits to government spending not being some figure on a balance sheet but the real resources available to a country (especially cf the criminal levels of profligacy in human capital by having such huge numbers of people sitting deliberately idle and unproductive); as well as inflationary pressures.

When Frydenburg talks about “6%” unemployment resembling something approaching normalcy, anyone who understands macro should be completely incredulous and outraged.

The deficits should be increased as much as is necessary to fund a locally administered jobs transition program to get people who want to work, into work. The private sector is not the only sector whom can employ people, and most people understand that.

This policy platform is a logical corollary of understanding that so much of what most people believe about the so called national debt, “taxpayerism” and the purportedly omnipresent (but never materialising) sovereign debt crisis; is seriously misleading and misunderstood.
perhaps, but you cant have your cake and eat it.

The more you devalue cash the more you increase value in other assets land / gold and ... bitcoin.