The Politics Thread 2021

Discuss all the events of the day

Moderator: GH Moderators

Post Reply
The Nickman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 51016
Joined: June 25, 2012, 9:53 am
Favourite Player: Hodgo
Location: Rockhampton, Central Queensland

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by The Nickman »

Very very fascinating and "interesting" period coming up in the US, specifically in the period leading into Biden's inauguration, namely 16th to 20th January.

Again, some light reading for those not entirely up on the madness happening in the US...

FBI warns 'armed protests' being planned at all 50 state capitols and in Washington DC

Mitch McConnell, Donald Trump’s most loyal defender, turns on President

4000 armed Trump supporters planning to surround Capitol again

Military Joint Chiefs condemn "sedition and insurrection" at US Capitol
User avatar
Chickas shoe
John Ferguson
Posts: 2475
Joined: May 23, 2007, 10:28 am

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Chickas shoe »

Manbush wrote: January 9, 2021, 9:36 am QAnon being QAnon they’ve come up with two new conspiracies based on Trumps “concession” speech, 1) its all part of the plan and since he didn’t mention Biden the new administration he mentioned will be his own second term 2) the video was a deep fake.

Gotta love these guys. :lol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_jrebvmPlk
The Nickman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 51016
Joined: June 25, 2012, 9:53 am
Favourite Player: Hodgo
Location: Rockhampton, Central Queensland

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by The Nickman »

Manbush wrote: January 9, 2021, 9:36 am QAnon being QAnon they’ve come up with two new conspiracies based on Trumps “concession” speech, 1) its all part of the plan and since he didn’t mention Biden the new administration he mentioned will be his own second term 2) the video was a deep fake.

Gotta love these guys. :lol:
Yeah, I saw this. I wonder what they think now that Trump has said he doesn't want anymore violence, surely they'll try and spin it some way to suit their own needs?

It's becoming increasingly obvious that the monster that Trump has unleashed in no longer being controlled by him or is able to be curtailed.
User avatar
Manbush
Mal Meninga
Posts: 24869
Joined: March 14, 2008, 6:55 pm
Favourite Player: Luke Turner

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Manbush »

Well he’s officially been impeached with even 10 Republicans voting for it.

Record books will show him as a one term president with a few records, only president to lose the popular vote twice, only president to be impeached in his first term, only president to be impeached twice, I’m sure there’s a few more I’ve forgotten.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 42016
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Elliott Whitehead

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Botman »

Wow, really didn’t think they’d be able to pull it off
That’s great though

Some members of the GOP trying to save their political soul at the very last moment shouldn’t be pass on them enabling this guy for the last 4 years
User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 145114
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by greeneyed »

It was dispiriting to listen to all the Republicans hiding behind the speed and process in explaining why there should a no vote. Isn’t speed of the essence? Then there were some actually defending Trump. Hopefully the senate does the right thing and disqualify Trump from any future public office. It was great that 10 Republicans voted to impeach today, sad there were not a lot, lot more.
Image
The Nickman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 51016
Joined: June 25, 2012, 9:53 am
Favourite Player: Hodgo
Location: Rockhampton, Central Queensland

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by The Nickman »

I think there's genuine concern around what Trump supporters will do if they remove Trump before the 20th. The real plan of this current impeachment seems to be more revolved around making sure he can't sit again in four years, not removing him from office ASAP.
User avatar
Mickey_Raider
Jason Croker
Posts: 4345
Joined: March 16, 2008, 7:15 am
Favourite Player: Big Papa
Location: North Sydney

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Mickey_Raider »

As the House is controlled by the Democrats, the House vote was always going to be a fait accompli to impeach. Therefore the House Republicans probably felt they could take the politically expedient route of just saying Nay as their vote wouldn't determine the outcome in any case.

In this way they can still shamelessly market themselves to the Trump fanbase for their own political careers.

The real heat will be applied when it comes to the Senate. A real litmus test for the soul and integrity of the GOP and those 50 senators.
Up The Milk
User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 145114
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by greeneyed »

Mickey_Raider wrote: January 14, 2021, 8:51 am
In this way they can still shamelessly market themselves to the Trump fanbase for their own political careers.
And may history judge them appropriately.
Image
Coastalraider
David Furner
Posts: 3860
Joined: May 31, 2015, 7:25 am
Favourite Player: Dean Lance

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Coastalraider »

The Nickman wrote: January 14, 2021, 8:45 am I think there's genuine concern around what Trump supporters will do if they remove Trump before the 20th. The real plan of this current impeachment seems to be more revolved around making sure he can't sit again in four years, not removing him from office ASAP.
I agree 100%.

The real aim here should be remove all of his abilities to influence with the minimum of noise.

Removal from social media platforms has had a huge impact. Removing his ability to lead AFTER a transition is ideal as it doesnt create a huge swell of MAGA protests now, but in a low key way it removes the option of him to run again in 2024 with a minimum of social impact. Throwing him out now is likely to start a civil war. Removing his ability in Feb or March has way less social impact, while still having the same result.
User avatar
Seiffert82
Mal Meninga
Posts: 27849
Joined: March 17, 2007, 12:24 pm
Favourite Player: Bay56

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Seiffert82 »

Some of these bat**** crazy lunatics would have been waiting their whole lives for this 'revolution'.

Like One Nation, it just proves that every country has this far right wing minority who just need somebody with a degree of wherewithal to give them a voice in government to kick these sort of shenanigans off.

At least here the Libs worked with Labor to nip it in the bud. Over there, this whole episode has proven how morally bankrupt some of these politicians are.
User avatar
Manbush
Mal Meninga
Posts: 24869
Joined: March 14, 2008, 6:55 pm
Favourite Player: Luke Turner

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Manbush »

Oh how cute, the QAnon follower who got elected into the house is talking about impeaching Biden on his first day.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
The Nickman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 51016
Joined: June 25, 2012, 9:53 am
Favourite Player: Hodgo
Location: Rockhampton, Central Queensland

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by The Nickman »

Source, Manbush?
User avatar
Manbush
Mal Meninga
Posts: 24869
Joined: March 14, 2008, 6:55 pm
Favourite Player: Luke Turner

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Manbush »

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/abc7.co ... nt/9650673

Being QAnon obviously she’s a Republican so would have zero chance of even getting through the house.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
The Nickman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 51016
Joined: June 25, 2012, 9:53 am
Favourite Player: Hodgo
Location: Rockhampton, Central Queensland

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by The Nickman »

Good grief, she's a complete nutjob.
Coastalraider
David Furner
Posts: 3860
Joined: May 31, 2015, 7:25 am
Favourite Player: Dean Lance

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Coastalraider »

Seiffert82 wrote: January 15, 2021, 12:08 am Some of these bat**** crazy lunatics would have been waiting their whole lives for this 'revolution'.

Like One Nation, it just proves that every country has this far right wing minority who just need somebody with a degree of wherewithal to give them a voice in government to kick these sort of shenanigans off.

At least here the Libs worked with Labor to nip it in the bud. Over there, this whole episode has proven how morally bankrupt some of these politicians are.
It’s not just the **** extreme right lunatics behind this though mate, he got 47% of the nations popular vote.
The Nickman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 51016
Joined: June 25, 2012, 9:53 am
Favourite Player: Hodgo
Location: Rockhampton, Central Queensland

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by The Nickman »

Coastalraider wrote: January 15, 2021, 11:25 am
Seiffert82 wrote: January 15, 2021, 12:08 am Some of these bat**** crazy lunatics would have been waiting their whole lives for this 'revolution'.

Like One Nation, it just proves that every country has this far right wing minority who just need somebody with a degree of wherewithal to give them a voice in government to kick these sort of shenanigans off.

At least here the Libs worked with Labor to nip it in the bud. Over there, this whole episode has proven how morally bankrupt some of these politicians are.
It’s not just the **** extreme right lunatics behind this though mate, he got 47% of the nations popular vote.
Yeah, but not all of those 47% are converging on the Capitol, only a minority are marching in the streets.

Plus, only roughly half the country voted, so it's more like 23% of the country voted for Trump and a minority of those are bat**** crazy lunatics who have been waiting their whole lives for this "revolution".

The number appears much higher than it actually is.
User avatar
Manbush
Mal Meninga
Posts: 24869
Joined: March 14, 2008, 6:55 pm
Favourite Player: Luke Turner

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Manbush »

A quote from Voltaire springs to mind with the cult of Trump.

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
User avatar
BJ
Steve Walters
Posts: 7695
Joined: February 2, 2007, 12:14 pm

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by BJ »


"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."

So said Ref’s boss Tony Archer to his referees in the 2019 Grand Final.
User avatar
Mickey_Raider
Jason Croker
Posts: 4345
Joined: March 16, 2008, 7:15 am
Favourite Player: Big Papa
Location: North Sydney

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Mickey_Raider »

Manbush wrote: January 15, 2021, 12:42 pm A quote from Voltaire springs to mind with the cult of Trump.

"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
This.

I was trying to get to the bottom of all this and I have diagnosed it as epistomological fallibilism. Attack the institutions, attack the media, raze the whole thing to the ground and retreat to the ideological camps you have created and when confronted with uncomfortable facts, just file them away as fake news. If that doesn't work just engage in a bit of "whataboutism".
Up The Milk
Coastalraider
David Furner
Posts: 3860
Joined: May 31, 2015, 7:25 am
Favourite Player: Dean Lance

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Coastalraider »

Plus, only roughly half the country voted, so it's more like 23% of the country voted for Trump and a minority of those are bat**** crazy lunatics who have been waiting their whole lives for this "revolution".

The number appears much higher than it actually is.
Nope, can’t agree with you there. 66.3% of legal age voters turned out, which was more than at any time in history. Trump got more votes in 2020 than any winning president in history. And lost.

I agree there is a minority of trump supporters willing to turn to actual violence, but there’s a higher percentage of Maga crowd willing to protest, fuelling that minority. Brushing off Trump followers as Redneck idiots (not aimed at you, aimed at general consensus I get in day to day conversations) is simply crazy. There is a huge part of the US population that needs to feel heard, calmed and in some way rationalised, otherwise the divide will continue to grow. Labelling them as Rednecks without a valid opinion fuels the divide further.
The Nickman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 51016
Joined: June 25, 2012, 9:53 am
Favourite Player: Hodgo
Location: Rockhampton, Central Queensland

The Politics Thread 2021

Post by The Nickman »

Coastalraider wrote:
Plus, only roughly half the country voted, so it's more like 23% of the country voted for Trump and a minority of those are bat**** crazy lunatics who have been waiting their whole lives for this "revolution".

The number appears much higher than it actually is.
Nope, can’t agree with you there. 66.3% of legal age voters turned out, which was more than at any time in history. Trump got more votes in 2020 than any winning president in history. And lost.

I agree there is a minority of trump supporters willing to turn to actual violence, but there’s a higher percentage of Maga crowd willing to protest, fuelling that minority. Brushing off Trump followers as Redneck idiots (not aimed at you, aimed at general consensus I get in day to day conversations) is simply crazy. There is a huge part of the US population that needs to feel heard, calmed and in some way rationalised, otherwise the divide will continue to grow. Labelling them as Rednecks without a valid opinion fuels the divide further.
So 31% of the country voted for trump? Again, a far cry from 47%.

And how many of that 31% do you think are ready to commit atrocities in his name? Even if it’s half of them it’s only 15%, and I’d wager it’s a LOT less than half

Again, a far cry from 47% of the country
User avatar
gangrenous
Laurie Daley
Posts: 16592
Joined: May 12, 2007, 10:42 pm

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by gangrenous »

Oh so there’s only about 20M nuts with guns ready for war then?

I feel better already...
The Nickman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 51016
Joined: June 25, 2012, 9:53 am
Favourite Player: Hodgo
Location: Rockhampton, Central Queensland

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by The Nickman »

Oh yeah, it’s still a lot of people, and I think the next week could be quite frightening... I’m just saying it’s not half the country or anywhere near that

It’ll be enough to be an absolute clusterfunk though
User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 42016
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Elliott Whitehead

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Botman »

The thing you have to remember about american politics is that its in many respects cheering laundry. Not entirely different from us being raiders fans... the people change, but the laundry stays the same and good or bad, we cheer laundry

So what Nickman is saying is correct. There is undoubtly a scary number of people willing to pick up arms to forcably keep the man in charge... but that is very small miniorty. Most republian voters, whilst still supporting Trump, will quickly enough forget about him and move on to the next person with the right laundry

That all said, Trump is a poll busting turn out machine so it will be fascinating to see next election if middle of the road republicians energised by Trump continue to turn out, or if they disappear
User avatar
Dr Zaius
Mal Meninga
Posts: 22875
Joined: April 15, 2007, 11:03 am
Location: Queensland somewhere

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Dr Zaius »

I would think/hope that majority of Trump voters looked on with horrors
User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 145114
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by greeneyed »

Given there’s a poll saying only 15 per cent of Republican voters want Trump impeached, there’s something very wrong with the state of US society: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/tr ... val-polls/

This poll suggests its even lower than that, just eight per cent of Republicans: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-t ... l-n1254314
Image
User avatar
BJ
Steve Walters
Posts: 7695
Joined: February 2, 2007, 12:14 pm

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by BJ »

Some of the scariest Trump supporters don’t even vote.

US certainly has some issues at its core.
User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 42016
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Elliott Whitehead

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Botman »

Dr Zaius wrote: January 15, 2021, 6:49 pm I would think/hope that majority of Trump voters looked on with horrors
Most did because they are republicans who want to pretect democracy.
Some didnt, its laundry, and their team is their team but they aint really about actionable impact for his agenda which they sort of agree with.
Few acted. They are the fringe lunatics

Trump's supernatural power in engaging the base. Which mean he's gets the usual portion of each of the above... its weird to say give his unusual style, but i think history will record Trump as one of the most effective (not the best) orators of modern political history... its delivered in a different way in terms of the messaging and how its delivered (both intellectually and reach) but the parallel's between the way he and say, Adolf Hitler engaged his base to turn it into a base for power isnt lost on me
User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 145114
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by greeneyed »

Straight after the insurrection, a poll suggested 45 per cent of Republican voters supported the rioters...

Almost half of Republicans support rioters who stormed the US Capitol building on Wednesday, a new poll claims: https://nypost.com/2021/01/08/19-percen ... iege-poll/

This story suggests only a third of Republican voters believe that Trump incited violence: https://www.nbcboston.com/news/politics ... s/2277017/

Then there's this:

One week after inciting a terrorist attack against Congress, while attempting to end constitutional government in the United States, Donald Trump’s approval rating is approaching an all-time low.

Put differently: Even after the president’s attempt to nullify a democratic election got five people killed, including a police officer, about 40 percent of Americans believe he is doing a good job.

Read more: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/01 ... r-gop.html

Here's another:

33% overall approve of Trump and 60% disapprove – tying the president's lowest standing in a Quinnipiac poll, in August 2017. However, 71% of Republicans approve of him while 20% disapprove, and 94% of Democrats disapprove of the president compared to 4% that approve.

Asked if Trump was responsible for the riot, which left at least five people dead, 56% of respondents overall said he was at fault, and 42% said he was not. But those numbers are driven by strongly partisan perspectives: 17% of Republicans blame Trump, compared to 80% who do not, while 94% of Democrats lay the blame at the president's feet and 6% do not.

Read more: https://www.usnews.com/news/elections/a ... -riot-poll

And another:

A new poll has found that a majority of Republican voters still believe anti-fascist activists were responsible for the storming of the Capitol last week, despite clear statements from GOP leaders and law enforcement dispelling the conspiracy theory.

Read more: https://www.newsweek.com/most-republica ... ll-1561542

Very pessimistic about the Senate following through on the impeachment.
Image
The Nickman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 51016
Joined: June 25, 2012, 9:53 am
Favourite Player: Hodgo
Location: Rockhampton, Central Queensland

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by The Nickman »

Let’s wait and see what the next week brings... from Sunday our time onwards could be fascinating viewing
User avatar
Manbush
Mal Meninga
Posts: 24869
Joined: March 14, 2008, 6:55 pm
Favourite Player: Luke Turner

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Manbush »

Even banks are starting to cut ties with Trump :lol:

In the wake of the deadly riots on Capitol Hill last week, Deutsche Bank and Signature Bank have said they are cutting future ties with President Donald Trump.

That could leave the president on the hook for millions of dollars when several large loans he has personally guaranteed come due in the next two years. If Trump were unable to pay back the full amount, the bank could seize assets he used to secure the loan — which could include his golf courses, hotels, or other properties.

Deutsche Bank, where the president has two personally guaranteed mortgages for a total of $340 million, is refraining from further business with Trump, according to a person familiar with the matter.The loans come due in 2023 and 2024.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.nbc ... cna1253895
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
User avatar
Manbush
Mal Meninga
Posts: 24869
Joined: March 14, 2008, 6:55 pm
Favourite Player: Luke Turner

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Manbush »

The Nickman wrote: January 15, 2021, 8:55 pm Let’s wait and see what the next week brings... from Sunday our time onwards could be fascinating viewing
Yep the 17th and 20th (in the US) are the days more mass protests were apparently being planned on Parler and other right wing hangouts.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
Coastalraider
David Furner
Posts: 3860
Joined: May 31, 2015, 7:25 am
Favourite Player: Dean Lance

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Coastalraider »

The Nickman wrote: January 15, 2021, 4:29 pm
Coastalraider wrote:
Plus, only roughly half the country voted, so it's more like 23% of the country voted for Trump and a minority of those are bat**** crazy lunatics who have been waiting their whole lives for this "revolution".

The number appears much higher than it actually is.
Nope, can’t agree with you there. 66.3% of legal age voters turned out, which was more than at any time in history. Trump got more votes in 2020 than any winning president in history. And lost.

I agree there is a minority of trump supporters willing to turn to actual violence, but there’s a higher percentage of Maga crowd willing to protest, fuelling that minority. Brushing off Trump followers as Redneck idiots (not aimed at you, aimed at general consensus I get in day to day conversations) is simply crazy. There is a huge part of the US population that needs to feel heard, calmed and in some way rationalised, otherwise the divide will continue to grow. Labelling them as Rednecks without a valid opinion fuels the divide further.
So 31% of the country voted for trump? Again, a far cry from 47%.

And how many of that 31% do you think are ready to commit atrocities in his name? Even if it’s half of them it’s only 15%, and I’d wager it’s a LOT less than half

Again, a far cry from 47% of the country
Nothing wrong with your stats, but I would add that 140odd million is a fair sample size to work out the average of the nations biases. Just because only 2/3rds voted doesn’t mean the remaining balance are all sensible democrats wishing for peace.
User avatar
Sterlk
David Furner
Posts: 3257
Joined: July 20, 2008, 10:41 am
Location: Canberra - Raiders season ticket

Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Sterlk »

Manbush wrote: January 15, 2021, 11:02 pm Deutsche Bank, where the president has two personally guaranteed mortgages for a total of $340 million, is refraining from further business with Trump, according to a person familiar with the matter.The loans come due in 2023 and 2024.
I read that they were looking to forgive the loan, as the only option of cutting ties with him and getting him off the books.
Post Reply