The Politics Thread 2021
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- Mal Meninga
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021
Very very fascinating and "interesting" period coming up in the US, specifically in the period leading into Biden's inauguration, namely 16th to 20th January.
Again, some light reading for those not entirely up on the madness happening in the US...
FBI warns 'armed protests' being planned at all 50 state capitols and in Washington DC
Mitch McConnell, Donald Trump’s most loyal defender, turns on President
4000 armed Trump supporters planning to surround Capitol again
Military Joint Chiefs condemn "sedition and insurrection" at US Capitol
Again, some light reading for those not entirely up on the madness happening in the US...
FBI warns 'armed protests' being planned at all 50 state capitols and in Washington DC
Mitch McConnell, Donald Trump’s most loyal defender, turns on President
4000 armed Trump supporters planning to surround Capitol again
Military Joint Chiefs condemn "sedition and insurrection" at US Capitol
- Chickas shoe
- John Ferguson
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_jrebvmPlkManbush wrote: ↑January 9, 2021, 9:36 am QAnon being QAnon they’ve come up with two new conspiracies based on Trumps “concession” speech, 1) its all part of the plan and since he didn’t mention Biden the new administration he mentioned will be his own second term 2) the video was a deep fake.
Gotta love these guys.
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- Mal Meninga
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021
Yeah, I saw this. I wonder what they think now that Trump has said he doesn't want anymore violence, surely they'll try and spin it some way to suit their own needs?Manbush wrote: ↑January 9, 2021, 9:36 am QAnon being QAnon they’ve come up with two new conspiracies based on Trumps “concession” speech, 1) its all part of the plan and since he didn’t mention Biden the new administration he mentioned will be his own second term 2) the video was a deep fake.
Gotta love these guys.
It's becoming increasingly obvious that the monster that Trump has unleashed in no longer being controlled by him or is able to be curtailed.
Re: The Politics Thread 2021
Well he’s officially been impeached with even 10 Republicans voting for it.
Record books will show him as a one term president with a few records, only president to lose the popular vote twice, only president to be impeached in his first term, only president to be impeached twice, I’m sure there’s a few more I’ve forgotten.
Record books will show him as a one term president with a few records, only president to lose the popular vote twice, only president to be impeached in his first term, only president to be impeached twice, I’m sure there’s a few more I’ve forgotten.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
Re: The Politics Thread 2021
Wow, really didn’t think they’d be able to pull it off
That’s great though
Some members of the GOP trying to save their political soul at the very last moment shouldn’t be pass on them enabling this guy for the last 4 years
That’s great though
Some members of the GOP trying to save their political soul at the very last moment shouldn’t be pass on them enabling this guy for the last 4 years
Re: The Politics Thread 2021
It was dispiriting to listen to all the Republicans hiding behind the speed and process in explaining why there should a no vote. Isn’t speed of the essence? Then there were some actually defending Trump. Hopefully the senate does the right thing and disqualify Trump from any future public office. It was great that 10 Republicans voted to impeach today, sad there were not a lot, lot more.
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- Mal Meninga
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021
I think there's genuine concern around what Trump supporters will do if they remove Trump before the 20th. The real plan of this current impeachment seems to be more revolved around making sure he can't sit again in four years, not removing him from office ASAP.
- Mickey_Raider
- Jason Croker
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021
As the House is controlled by the Democrats, the House vote was always going to be a fait accompli to impeach. Therefore the House Republicans probably felt they could take the politically expedient route of just saying Nay as their vote wouldn't determine the outcome in any case.
In this way they can still shamelessly market themselves to the Trump fanbase for their own political careers.
The real heat will be applied when it comes to the Senate. A real litmus test for the soul and integrity of the GOP and those 50 senators.
In this way they can still shamelessly market themselves to the Trump fanbase for their own political careers.
The real heat will be applied when it comes to the Senate. A real litmus test for the soul and integrity of the GOP and those 50 senators.
Up The Milk
Re: The Politics Thread 2021
And may history judge them appropriately.Mickey_Raider wrote: ↑January 14, 2021, 8:51 am
In this way they can still shamelessly market themselves to the Trump fanbase for their own political careers.
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- David Furner
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021
I agree 100%.The Nickman wrote: ↑January 14, 2021, 8:45 am I think there's genuine concern around what Trump supporters will do if they remove Trump before the 20th. The real plan of this current impeachment seems to be more revolved around making sure he can't sit again in four years, not removing him from office ASAP.
The real aim here should be remove all of his abilities to influence with the minimum of noise.
Removal from social media platforms has had a huge impact. Removing his ability to lead AFTER a transition is ideal as it doesnt create a huge swell of MAGA protests now, but in a low key way it removes the option of him to run again in 2024 with a minimum of social impact. Throwing him out now is likely to start a civil war. Removing his ability in Feb or March has way less social impact, while still having the same result.
- Seiffert82
- Mal Meninga
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021
Some of these bat**** crazy lunatics would have been waiting their whole lives for this 'revolution'.
Like One Nation, it just proves that every country has this far right wing minority who just need somebody with a degree of wherewithal to give them a voice in government to kick these sort of shenanigans off.
At least here the Libs worked with Labor to nip it in the bud. Over there, this whole episode has proven how morally bankrupt some of these politicians are.
Like One Nation, it just proves that every country has this far right wing minority who just need somebody with a degree of wherewithal to give them a voice in government to kick these sort of shenanigans off.
At least here the Libs worked with Labor to nip it in the bud. Over there, this whole episode has proven how morally bankrupt some of these politicians are.
Re: The Politics Thread 2021
Oh how cute, the QAnon follower who got elected into the house is talking about impeaching Biden on his first day.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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- Mal Meninga
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021
Source, Manbush?
Re: The Politics Thread 2021
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/abc7.co ... nt/9650673
Being QAnon obviously she’s a Republican so would have zero chance of even getting through the house.
Being QAnon obviously she’s a Republican so would have zero chance of even getting through the house.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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- Mal Meninga
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021
Good grief, she's a complete nutjob.
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- David Furner
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021
It’s not just the **** extreme right lunatics behind this though mate, he got 47% of the nations popular vote.Seiffert82 wrote: ↑January 15, 2021, 12:08 am Some of these bat**** crazy lunatics would have been waiting their whole lives for this 'revolution'.
Like One Nation, it just proves that every country has this far right wing minority who just need somebody with a degree of wherewithal to give them a voice in government to kick these sort of shenanigans off.
At least here the Libs worked with Labor to nip it in the bud. Over there, this whole episode has proven how morally bankrupt some of these politicians are.
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- Mal Meninga
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021
Yeah, but not all of those 47% are converging on the Capitol, only a minority are marching in the streets.Coastalraider wrote: ↑January 15, 2021, 11:25 amIt’s not just the **** extreme right lunatics behind this though mate, he got 47% of the nations popular vote.Seiffert82 wrote: ↑January 15, 2021, 12:08 am Some of these bat**** crazy lunatics would have been waiting their whole lives for this 'revolution'.
Like One Nation, it just proves that every country has this far right wing minority who just need somebody with a degree of wherewithal to give them a voice in government to kick these sort of shenanigans off.
At least here the Libs worked with Labor to nip it in the bud. Over there, this whole episode has proven how morally bankrupt some of these politicians are.
Plus, only roughly half the country voted, so it's more like 23% of the country voted for Trump and a minority of those are bat**** crazy lunatics who have been waiting their whole lives for this "revolution".
The number appears much higher than it actually is.
Re: The Politics Thread 2021
A quote from Voltaire springs to mind with the cult of Trump.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
Re: The Politics Thread 2021
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities."
So said Ref’s boss Tony Archer to his referees in the 2019 Grand Final.
- Mickey_Raider
- Jason Croker
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021
This.
I was trying to get to the bottom of all this and I have diagnosed it as epistomological fallibilism. Attack the institutions, attack the media, raze the whole thing to the ground and retreat to the ideological camps you have created and when confronted with uncomfortable facts, just file them away as fake news. If that doesn't work just engage in a bit of "whataboutism".
Up The Milk
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- David Furner
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021
Nope, can’t agree with you there. 66.3% of legal age voters turned out, which was more than at any time in history. Trump got more votes in 2020 than any winning president in history. And lost.Plus, only roughly half the country voted, so it's more like 23% of the country voted for Trump and a minority of those are bat**** crazy lunatics who have been waiting their whole lives for this "revolution".
The number appears much higher than it actually is.
I agree there is a minority of trump supporters willing to turn to actual violence, but there’s a higher percentage of Maga crowd willing to protest, fuelling that minority. Brushing off Trump followers as Redneck idiots (not aimed at you, aimed at general consensus I get in day to day conversations) is simply crazy. There is a huge part of the US population that needs to feel heard, calmed and in some way rationalised, otherwise the divide will continue to grow. Labelling them as Rednecks without a valid opinion fuels the divide further.
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- Mal Meninga
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The Politics Thread 2021
So 31% of the country voted for trump? Again, a far cry from 47%.Coastalraider wrote:Nope, can’t agree with you there. 66.3% of legal age voters turned out, which was more than at any time in history. Trump got more votes in 2020 than any winning president in history. And lost.Plus, only roughly half the country voted, so it's more like 23% of the country voted for Trump and a minority of those are bat**** crazy lunatics who have been waiting their whole lives for this "revolution".
The number appears much higher than it actually is.
I agree there is a minority of trump supporters willing to turn to actual violence, but there’s a higher percentage of Maga crowd willing to protest, fuelling that minority. Brushing off Trump followers as Redneck idiots (not aimed at you, aimed at general consensus I get in day to day conversations) is simply crazy. There is a huge part of the US population that needs to feel heard, calmed and in some way rationalised, otherwise the divide will continue to grow. Labelling them as Rednecks without a valid opinion fuels the divide further.
And how many of that 31% do you think are ready to commit atrocities in his name? Even if it’s half of them it’s only 15%, and I’d wager it’s a LOT less than half
Again, a far cry from 47% of the country
- gangrenous
- Laurie Daley
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021
Oh so there’s only about 20M nuts with guns ready for war then?
I feel better already...
I feel better already...
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- Mal Meninga
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021
Oh yeah, it’s still a lot of people, and I think the next week could be quite frightening... I’m just saying it’s not half the country or anywhere near that
It’ll be enough to be an absolute clusterfunk though
It’ll be enough to be an absolute clusterfunk though
Re: The Politics Thread 2021
The thing you have to remember about american politics is that its in many respects cheering laundry. Not entirely different from us being raiders fans... the people change, but the laundry stays the same and good or bad, we cheer laundry
So what Nickman is saying is correct. There is undoubtly a scary number of people willing to pick up arms to forcably keep the man in charge... but that is very small miniorty. Most republian voters, whilst still supporting Trump, will quickly enough forget about him and move on to the next person with the right laundry
That all said, Trump is a poll busting turn out machine so it will be fascinating to see next election if middle of the road republicians energised by Trump continue to turn out, or if they disappear
So what Nickman is saying is correct. There is undoubtly a scary number of people willing to pick up arms to forcably keep the man in charge... but that is very small miniorty. Most republian voters, whilst still supporting Trump, will quickly enough forget about him and move on to the next person with the right laundry
That all said, Trump is a poll busting turn out machine so it will be fascinating to see next election if middle of the road republicians energised by Trump continue to turn out, or if they disappear
Re: The Politics Thread 2021
I would think/hope that majority of Trump voters looked on with horrors
Re: The Politics Thread 2021
Given there’s a poll saying only 15 per cent of Republican voters want Trump impeached, there’s something very wrong with the state of US society: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/tr ... val-polls/
This poll suggests its even lower than that, just eight per cent of Republicans: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-t ... l-n1254314
This poll suggests its even lower than that, just eight per cent of Republicans: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-t ... l-n1254314
Re: The Politics Thread 2021
Some of the scariest Trump supporters don’t even vote.
US certainly has some issues at its core.
US certainly has some issues at its core.
Re: The Politics Thread 2021
Most did because they are republicans who want to pretect democracy.
Some didnt, its laundry, and their team is their team but they aint really about actionable impact for his agenda which they sort of agree with.
Few acted. They are the fringe lunatics
Trump's supernatural power in engaging the base. Which mean he's gets the usual portion of each of the above... its weird to say give his unusual style, but i think history will record Trump as one of the most effective (not the best) orators of modern political history... its delivered in a different way in terms of the messaging and how its delivered (both intellectually and reach) but the parallel's between the way he and say, Adolf Hitler engaged his base to turn it into a base for power isnt lost on me
Re: The Politics Thread 2021
Straight after the insurrection, a poll suggested 45 per cent of Republican voters supported the rioters...
Almost half of Republicans support rioters who stormed the US Capitol building on Wednesday, a new poll claims: https://nypost.com/2021/01/08/19-percen ... iege-poll/
This story suggests only a third of Republican voters believe that Trump incited violence: https://www.nbcboston.com/news/politics ... s/2277017/
Then there's this:
One week after inciting a terrorist attack against Congress, while attempting to end constitutional government in the United States, Donald Trump’s approval rating is approaching an all-time low.
Put differently: Even after the president’s attempt to nullify a democratic election got five people killed, including a police officer, about 40 percent of Americans believe he is doing a good job.
Read more: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/01 ... r-gop.html
Here's another:
33% overall approve of Trump and 60% disapprove – tying the president's lowest standing in a Quinnipiac poll, in August 2017. However, 71% of Republicans approve of him while 20% disapprove, and 94% of Democrats disapprove of the president compared to 4% that approve.
Asked if Trump was responsible for the riot, which left at least five people dead, 56% of respondents overall said he was at fault, and 42% said he was not. But those numbers are driven by strongly partisan perspectives: 17% of Republicans blame Trump, compared to 80% who do not, while 94% of Democrats lay the blame at the president's feet and 6% do not.
Read more: https://www.usnews.com/news/elections/a ... -riot-poll
And another:
A new poll has found that a majority of Republican voters still believe anti-fascist activists were responsible for the storming of the Capitol last week, despite clear statements from GOP leaders and law enforcement dispelling the conspiracy theory.
Read more: https://www.newsweek.com/most-republica ... ll-1561542
Very pessimistic about the Senate following through on the impeachment.
Almost half of Republicans support rioters who stormed the US Capitol building on Wednesday, a new poll claims: https://nypost.com/2021/01/08/19-percen ... iege-poll/
This story suggests only a third of Republican voters believe that Trump incited violence: https://www.nbcboston.com/news/politics ... s/2277017/
Then there's this:
One week after inciting a terrorist attack against Congress, while attempting to end constitutional government in the United States, Donald Trump’s approval rating is approaching an all-time low.
Put differently: Even after the president’s attempt to nullify a democratic election got five people killed, including a police officer, about 40 percent of Americans believe he is doing a good job.
Read more: https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/01 ... r-gop.html
Here's another:
33% overall approve of Trump and 60% disapprove – tying the president's lowest standing in a Quinnipiac poll, in August 2017. However, 71% of Republicans approve of him while 20% disapprove, and 94% of Democrats disapprove of the president compared to 4% that approve.
Asked if Trump was responsible for the riot, which left at least five people dead, 56% of respondents overall said he was at fault, and 42% said he was not. But those numbers are driven by strongly partisan perspectives: 17% of Republicans blame Trump, compared to 80% who do not, while 94% of Democrats lay the blame at the president's feet and 6% do not.
Read more: https://www.usnews.com/news/elections/a ... -riot-poll
And another:
A new poll has found that a majority of Republican voters still believe anti-fascist activists were responsible for the storming of the Capitol last week, despite clear statements from GOP leaders and law enforcement dispelling the conspiracy theory.
Read more: https://www.newsweek.com/most-republica ... ll-1561542
Very pessimistic about the Senate following through on the impeachment.
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- Mal Meninga
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021
Let’s wait and see what the next week brings... from Sunday our time onwards could be fascinating viewing
Re: The Politics Thread 2021
Even banks are starting to cut ties with Trump
In the wake of the deadly riots on Capitol Hill last week, Deutsche Bank and Signature Bank have said they are cutting future ties with President Donald Trump.
That could leave the president on the hook for millions of dollars when several large loans he has personally guaranteed come due in the next two years. If Trump were unable to pay back the full amount, the bank could seize assets he used to secure the loan — which could include his golf courses, hotels, or other properties.
Deutsche Bank, where the president has two personally guaranteed mortgages for a total of $340 million, is refraining from further business with Trump, according to a person familiar with the matter.The loans come due in 2023 and 2024.
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.nbc ... cna1253895
In the wake of the deadly riots on Capitol Hill last week, Deutsche Bank and Signature Bank have said they are cutting future ties with President Donald Trump.
That could leave the president on the hook for millions of dollars when several large loans he has personally guaranteed come due in the next two years. If Trump were unable to pay back the full amount, the bank could seize assets he used to secure the loan — which could include his golf courses, hotels, or other properties.
Deutsche Bank, where the president has two personally guaranteed mortgages for a total of $340 million, is refraining from further business with Trump, according to a person familiar with the matter.The loans come due in 2023 and 2024.
https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.nbc ... cna1253895
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
Re: The Politics Thread 2021
Yep the 17th and 20th (in the US) are the days more mass protests were apparently being planned on Parler and other right wing hangouts.The Nickman wrote: ↑January 15, 2021, 8:55 pm Let’s wait and see what the next week brings... from Sunday our time onwards could be fascinating viewing
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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- David Furner
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021
Nothing wrong with your stats, but I would add that 140odd million is a fair sample size to work out the average of the nations biases. Just because only 2/3rds voted doesn’t mean the remaining balance are all sensible democrats wishing for peace.The Nickman wrote: ↑January 15, 2021, 4:29 pmSo 31% of the country voted for trump? Again, a far cry from 47%.Coastalraider wrote:Nope, can’t agree with you there. 66.3% of legal age voters turned out, which was more than at any time in history. Trump got more votes in 2020 than any winning president in history. And lost.Plus, only roughly half the country voted, so it's more like 23% of the country voted for Trump and a minority of those are bat**** crazy lunatics who have been waiting their whole lives for this "revolution".
The number appears much higher than it actually is.
I agree there is a minority of trump supporters willing to turn to actual violence, but there’s a higher percentage of Maga crowd willing to protest, fuelling that minority. Brushing off Trump followers as Redneck idiots (not aimed at you, aimed at general consensus I get in day to day conversations) is simply crazy. There is a huge part of the US population that needs to feel heard, calmed and in some way rationalised, otherwise the divide will continue to grow. Labelling them as Rednecks without a valid opinion fuels the divide further.
And how many of that 31% do you think are ready to commit atrocities in his name? Even if it’s half of them it’s only 15%, and I’d wager it’s a LOT less than half
Again, a far cry from 47% of the country
- Sterlk
- David Furner
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021
I read that they were looking to forgive the loan, as the only option of cutting ties with him and getting him off the books.