The Politics Thread 2021

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greeneyed
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by greeneyed »

Most of them decided to just walk up the stairs.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by greeneyed »

Objection now made for Pennsylvania. Objections for Georgia, Nevada and Michigan failed, as no Senator would support them. Votes at least required for both Houses. House might actually debate. Supposedly no other successful objection is likely.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Coastalraider »

This however is pretty amazing. To be fair I’m actually impressed with the fact no real force was used. I’d expected more from both sides.

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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Seiffert82 »

Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: January 7, 2021, 9:59 am
gangrenous wrote:Edit - Fui that Twitter handle doesn’t match well the content. That guy very confused?
Yeah I thought the same when I saw it.
Yeah that's weird.

Someone call Alanis Morissette. She'll sort this out.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Seiffert82 »

Botman wrote: January 7, 2021, 11:12 am
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: January 7, 2021, 9:59 am
gangrenous wrote:Edit - Fui that Twitter handle doesn’t match well the content. That guy very confused?
Yeah I thought the same when I saw it.
It’s actually not
Joe Biden has a complicated history with his race politics
His remarks around the time it was being drafted and his role in the 94 crime bill, which has been disastrous for black America have not been forgotten by a lot of people
And nor should

Biden got elected largely on the back of the black vote but that has more to do with Harris and Trump than it does Biden
If the 1994 crime bill is the basis of that dude's twitter handle, he's got a pretty appalling sense of what has undermined race relations in the USA over the last 250 years.

Among other things, the law obviously led to a ton of crack addicts and drug dealers being thrown behind bars so I guess it's anyone prerogative to be confronted by that.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by greeneyed »

Senate votes no to the objection for Penn 92-7.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Botman »

Seiffert82 wrote: January 7, 2021, 3:40 pm
Botman wrote: January 7, 2021, 11:12 am
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: January 7, 2021, 9:59 am
gangrenous wrote:Edit - Fui that Twitter handle doesn’t match well the content. That guy very confused?
Yeah I thought the same when I saw it.
It’s actually not
Joe Biden has a complicated history with his race politics
His remarks around the time it was being drafted and his role in the 94 crime bill, which has been disastrous for black America have not been forgotten by a lot of people
And nor should

Biden got elected largely on the back of the black vote but that has more to do with Harris and Trump than it does Biden
If the 1994 crime bill is the basis of that dude's twitter handle, he's got a pretty appalling sense of what has undermined race relations in the USA over the last 250 years.

Among other things, the law obviously led to a ton of crack addicts and drug dealers being thrown behind bars so I guess it's anyone prerogative to be confronted by that.
The "other things" include mass incarcerations, with a disproporonate number of people of colour due to the "War on drugs" which like every other country waging that war, has and continues to take a giant fat L and has hurt communities.
It included beefed up police force budgets and officers, which has ultimately lead to police brutality again to a disproporonate number of people of colour, and what has ultimately lead to the BLM/Defund the Police movements.

And over the years he's had some... lets call them... missteps in how he spoke about people of colour. It's fine, i dont think he's a racist, and i think a lot of the issues with the 94 Crime Bill are a product of unintended consequences.
As said earlier, i think when the alternative is facism, we should probably be more forgiving about the other side not being perfect, but then that's easy for me to say, none of what people might be upset with Biden about ever impacted me. No idea how it impacted that twitter user, but Biden's history in race politics was a major talking point in the primaries and a lot of people of colour simply dont trust him due to his history. That's their right (also as per the polls, most of them voted for him anyways... which again, is more about voting out Trump and voting IN Harris)
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Seiffert82 »

Botman wrote: January 7, 2021, 4:01 pm
Seiffert82 wrote: January 7, 2021, 3:40 pm
Botman wrote: January 7, 2021, 11:12 am
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: January 7, 2021, 9:59 am
gangrenous wrote:Edit - Fui that Twitter handle doesn’t match well the content. That guy very confused?
Yeah I thought the same when I saw it.
It’s actually not
Joe Biden has a complicated history with his race politics
His remarks around the time it was being drafted and his role in the 94 crime bill, which has been disastrous for black America have not been forgotten by a lot of people
And nor should

Biden got elected largely on the back of the black vote but that has more to do with Harris and Trump than it does Biden
If the 1994 crime bill is the basis of that dude's twitter handle, he's got a pretty appalling sense of what has undermined race relations in the USA over the last 250 years.

Among other things, the law obviously led to a ton of crack addicts and drug dealers being thrown behind bars so I guess it's anyone prerogative to be confronted by that.
The "other things" include mass incarcerations, with a disproporonate number of people of colour due to the "War on drugs" which like every other country waging that war, has and continues to take a giant fat L and has hurt communities.
It included beefed up police force budgets and officers, which has ultimately lead to police brutality again to a disproporonate number of people of colour, and what has ultimately lead to the BLM/Defund the Police movements.

And over the years he's had some... lets call them... missteps in how he spoke about people of colour. It's fine, i dont think he's a racist, and i think a lot of the issues with the 94 Crime Bill are a product of unintended consequences.
As said earlier, i think when the alternative is facism, we should probably be more forgiving about the other side not being perfect, but then that's easy for me to say, none of what people might be upset with Biden about ever impacted me. No idea how it impacted that twitter user, but Biden's history in race politics was a major talking point in the primaries and a lot of people of colour simply dont trust him due to his history. That's their right (also as per the polls, most of them voted for him anyways... which again, is more about voting out Trump and voting IN Harris)
Yep, there is no doubt that coloured people in the USA are disproportionately incarcerated (much like Aboriginal Australians). Any legislation to increase or extend the likelihood of incarceration is therefore going to impact that group more.

The war on drugs was really escalated in the Regan years. The Clinton administration was obviously trying to demonstrate that they were not weak in the area of law and order, after Dukakis got smashed by Bush in the previous election in large part due to that perception.

I dunno. IMO there needs to be more carrots put out there to assist disadvantaged communities, but there is also a place for strong legislation to act as a stick to punish law breakers. To be fair, in those days the crack epidemic was completely out of control.

The stats also show that the long term impact of the 1994 bill on incarcerations has been pretty negligible.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by The Nickman »

Coastalraider wrote: January 7, 2021, 3:19 pm This however is pretty amazing. To be fair I’m actually impressed with the fact no real force was used. I’d expected more from both sides.

Man, that video sent chills down my spine.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad »

The Nickman wrote:
Coastalraider wrote: January 7, 2021, 3:19 pm This however is pretty amazing. To be fair I’m actually impressed with the fact no real force was used. I’d expected more from both sides.

Man, that video sent chills down my spine.
Yeah that was insane. Could’ve easily gone another way.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

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Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: January 7, 2021, 4:43 pm
The Nickman wrote:
Coastalraider wrote: January 7, 2021, 3:19 pm This however is pretty amazing. To be fair I’m actually impressed with the fact no real force was used. I’d expected more from both sides.

Man, that video sent chills down my spine.
Yeah that was insane. Could’ve easily gone another way.
Can anyone actually with a straight face say that if those were BLM rioters/terrorists they would be allowed to stroll into the building virtually unchallenged like that?
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by gangrenous »

It was clearly a set up with the Antifa protestors invited inside to make a scene Mickey! Wake up sheeple!
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by hobbsy »

Mickey_Raider wrote: January 7, 2021, 10:48 am For me the most worrying thing is there are still a not-insignificant number of Trump apologists out there, marinating in their social media ecosystem which is nothing more than a farcical echo-chamber of baseless propaganda.

They genuinely, wholeheartedly believe that they are the true patriots and custodians of the truth and those living in the real world are the traitors to democracy.
Yep, my old roommate went completely down the Qanon rabbit hole last year. Pre covid he had very little interest in politics, then after hours and hours of watching that stuff on YouTube and Instagram by the end of the year his entire social media was clogged with conspiracies and Trump propaganda, he was buying Trump merchandise and wearing it to bars. It was pretty alarming how much changed so quickly.

But these people live in an alternate reality, and they are so entirely convinced they are right. No evidence will convince them otherwise. Anything you show them is planted by the deep state or fake mainstream media news. The only truth in their eyes is what these echo chambers say and Trump is the only one that can save the world from the satanic pedophile cult of Hollywood, Democrats and the media. It is truly insane.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by greeneyed »

The Republicans haven’t taken long to get back to normal. Already 137 of them agree to the Penn objection. Fourteen more coming out of the woodwork.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by -TW- »

Objection voted down

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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by greeneyed »

It’s done! Biden confirmed by the Congress.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by -TW- »

Who was the Muppet who objected with no support?

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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by greeneyed »

-TW- wrote: January 7, 2021, 6:43 pm Who was the Muppet who objected with no support?

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That happened with three other States too.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Botman »

Seiffert82 wrote: January 7, 2021, 4:11 pm
Botman wrote: January 7, 2021, 4:01 pm
Seiffert82 wrote: January 7, 2021, 3:40 pm
Botman wrote: January 7, 2021, 11:12 am
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: January 7, 2021, 9:59 am

Yeah I thought the same when I saw it.
It’s actually not
Joe Biden has a complicated history with his race politics
His remarks around the time it was being drafted and his role in the 94 crime bill, which has been disastrous for black America have not been forgotten by a lot of people
And nor should

Biden got elected largely on the back of the black vote but that has more to do with Harris and Trump than it does Biden
If the 1994 crime bill is the basis of that dude's twitter handle, he's got a pretty appalling sense of what has undermined race relations in the USA over the last 250 years.

Among other things, the law obviously led to a ton of crack addicts and drug dealers being thrown behind bars so I guess it's anyone prerogative to be confronted by that.
The "other things" include mass incarcerations, with a disproporonate number of people of colour due to the "War on drugs" which like every other country waging that war, has and continues to take a giant fat L and has hurt communities.
It included beefed up police force budgets and officers, which has ultimately lead to police brutality again to a disproporonate number of people of colour, and what has ultimately lead to the BLM/Defund the Police movements.

And over the years he's had some... lets call them... missteps in how he spoke about people of colour. It's fine, i dont think he's a racist, and i think a lot of the issues with the 94 Crime Bill are a product of unintended consequences.
As said earlier, i think when the alternative is facism, we should probably be more forgiving about the other side not being perfect, but then that's easy for me to say, none of what people might be upset with Biden about ever impacted me. No idea how it impacted that twitter user, but Biden's history in race politics was a major talking point in the primaries and a lot of people of colour simply dont trust him due to his history. That's their right (also as per the polls, most of them voted for him anyways... which again, is more about voting out Trump and voting IN Harris)
Yep, there is no doubt that coloured people in the USA are disproportionately incarcerated (much like Aboriginal Australians). Any legislation to increase or extend the likelihood of incarceration is therefore going to impact that group more.

The war on drugs was really escalated in the Regan years. The Clinton administration was obviously trying to demonstrate that they were not weak in the area of law and order, after Dukakis got smashed by Bush in the previous election in large part due to that perception.

I dunno. IMO there needs to be more carrots put out there to assist disadvantaged communities, but there is also a place for strong legislation to act as a stick to punish law breakers. To be fair, in those days the crack epidemic was completely out of control.

The stats also show that the long term impact of the 1994 bill on incarcerations has been pretty negligible.
Yeah, its a difficult issue to try and tackle. I agree that there is a place for strong legislation for law breakers, but most countries, including our own as you cite, have not found the right balance... i dont think we need to haul people over the coals 25 years later for legislation that was put in with good intentions... but again its easy for me to say that.

As i said earlier though, i do think Biden is aware his legacy on race politics and i think he's going to aton for those perceived wrongs in his presidency. There is a lot of pretty easy goals he can kick now with senate control to change that narrative
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Manbush »

Wow Trump has actually conceded.


"Even though I totally disagree with the outcome of the election, and the facts bear me out, nevertheless there will be an orderly transition on January 20th," Mr Trump said in a statement posted to Twitter by aides.

He added: "While this represents the end of the greatest first term in presidential history, it's only the beginning of our fight to Make America Great Again!"
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by greeneyed »

Manbush wrote: January 7, 2021, 8:05 pm Wow Trump has actually conceded.

"Even though I totally disagree with the outcome of the election, and the facts bear me out, nevertheless there will be an orderly transition on January 20th," Mr Trump said in a statement posted to Twitter by aides.

He added: "While this represents the end of the greatest first term in presidential history, it's only the beginning of our fight to Make America Great Again!"
Usually a concession comes with acknowledging you lost the election, ringing the winner, saying you are conceding, and congratulating the winner. None of that’s happened.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Mickey_Raider »

I am no expert in the US Civil Code, but I am finding it very hard to see why Trump and his cronies shouldn't be locked up for 20 years for seditious conspiracy.

At a minimum, Rudy Giuliani should be in huge trouble. How can you stand within 2 miles of the Capitol prior to a march to same and declare that there needs to be a trial by combat. If that isn't sedition, **** is?
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by 100%green »

My ex is American, she was livid when Trump got in. She lost family over arguments and ask sorts of stuff.

But I asked her what she was angry about when this all started. She rattled on about all the things he's done wrong and what's wrong with him...I again asked what she was angry about and she rattled off more about him.

I said "yeah but he's a buffoon, he's a spoilt, narcissistic, child. He's just doing what he knows to do!"

I said "What you should be angry about is your system that allowed this idiot to stroll. Into the White House...a man who's not a politician, has no diplomatic skills and no real understanding of what it means to lead a nation".

America has to look at it system and how they carry out there governing. The fact that this all takes place in November and he isn't out of office till late January is laughable, but the fact they don't have a caretaker period where lame ducks like this dangerous idiot are restricted in what they can do is beyond pathetic.

They claim to have the greatest democracy...this saga has destroyed that myth.

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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Manbush »

Haha well it’s as close as we’ll get, at least he’s acknowledged he won’t be President.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by gangrenous »

100%green wrote: I said "What you should be angry about is your system that allowed this idiot to stroll. Into the White House...a man who's not a politician, has no diplomatic skills and no real understanding of what it means to lead a nation".
What democracy prevents this? Don’t see how ours does. The problem is that people chose this. Millions of people... chose this...

You’re right about the extended period between election and handover though. That’s an anachronism causing unnecessary pain.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

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100%green wrote: January 7, 2021, 8:46 pm My ex is American, she was livid when Trump got in. She lost family over arguments and ask sorts of stuff.

But I asked her what she was angry about when this all started. She rattled on about all the things he's done wrong and what's wrong with him...I again asked what she was angry about and she rattled off more about him.

I said "yeah but he's a buffoon, he's a spoilt, narcissistic, child. He's just doing what he knows to do!"

I said "What you should be angry about is your system that allowed this idiot to stroll. Into the White House...a man who's not a politician, has no diplomatic skills and no real understanding of what it means to lead a nation".

America has to look at it system and how they carry out there governing. The fact that this all takes place in November and he isn't out of office till late January is laughable, but the fact they don't have a caretaker period where lame ducks like this dangerous idiot are restricted in what they can do is beyond pathetic.

They claim to have the greatest democracy...this saga has destroyed that myth.

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Irrespective of their system of governance, what this episode has shown is that there are still over 70 million Americans who were very happy to have this mentally unstable incompetent narcissistic ignorant racist back in that office.

There is seriously something fundamentally wrong with a large proportion of the people in that country, and those millions seem to be completely oblivious to how this is seen around the world. It's a bit terrifying actually.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by gangrenous »

I think it’s a mistake to look at America and think they are so far removed from where we are...
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gangrenous wrote: January 7, 2021, 9:37 pm
100%green wrote: I said "What you should be angry about is your system that allowed this idiot to stroll. Into the White House...a man who's not a politician, has no diplomatic skills and no real understanding of what it means to lead a nation".
What democracy prevents this? Don’t see how ours does. The problem is that people chose this. Millions of people... chose this...

You’re right about the extended period between election and handover though. That’s an anachronism causing unnecessary pain.
Ours does prevent it, if indirectly.

Over here, going into an election it's always the current PM vs. the leader of the opposition - you can't hold either of those roles without having first been elected to parliament, because the parties choose them from the sitting members.

You can get yourself on the ballot for a party easily enough I expect, if you're a 'big deal' with support of the party's members. If you manage to get voted in, from there you have to play the faction game and get the sitting members to put you forward as leader.

Trump wouldn't have had a hope in hell of being President if he was only able to put himself forward for a seat in... let's say the Senate, and the sitting Republican members chose their presidential nominee from sitting Senators. You'd be looking at a one-term delay in your rise from 'nobody' to 'President', and even then you can't 'force' your way into party leadership though a public vote (a la Republican primaries) - you'd have to get 'the swamp' to choose you over their established senior members who have decades of experience in public office.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by gangrenous »

Fair points. I guess that does weed out the ability to come straight in at the top with zero respect for the system.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by The Nickman »

Did... did gangrenous just concede a point?

On the same night Trump basically conceded?

I’m dying, aren’t I?
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by gangrenous »

Fair go Nickman, I’m not Botman.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by -TW- »

Sterlk wrote:
gangrenous wrote: January 7, 2021, 9:37 pm
100%green wrote: I said "What you should be angry about is your system that allowed this idiot to stroll. Into the White House...a man who's not a politician, has no diplomatic skills and no real understanding of what it means to lead a nation".
What democracy prevents this? Don’t see how ours does. The problem is that people chose this. Millions of people... chose this...

You’re right about the extended period between election and handover though. That’s an anachronism causing unnecessary pain.
Ours does prevent it, if indirectly.

Over here, going into an election it's always the current PM vs. the leader of the opposition - you can't hold either of those roles without having first been elected to parliament, because the parties choose them from the sitting members.

You can get yourself on the ballot for a party easily enough I expect, if you're a 'big deal' with support of the party's members. If you manage to get voted in, from there you have to play the faction game and get the sitting members to put you forward as leader.

Trump wouldn't have had a hope in hell of being President if he was only able to put himself forward for a seat in... let's say the Senate, and the sitting Republican members chose their presidential nominee from sitting Senators. You'd be looking at a one-term delay in your rise from 'nobody' to 'President', and even then you can't 'force' your way into party leadership though a public vote (a la Republican primaries) - you'd have to get 'the swamp' to choose you over their established senior members who have decades of experience in public office.
There is a possibility that a first term MP becomes prime minister, except it would never happen.

It would require the party to win the majority but the leader to lose their seat, which causes a spill (they spill the positions after each election anyway but it's custom to reelect the leader and deputy that won the election)

So the new MP would nominate, and depending on how much sway they had, they could get elected leader and this sworn as PM.

As I said, chances of that are near zero.

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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by greeneyed »

Calls grow in Congress for Trump to be removed by impeachment or the 25th Amendment: https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/07/poli ... index.html
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Manbush »

The Republicans won’t go the 25th route so I’m hoping the Dems rush through impeachment, it would purely be symbolic but **** twice impeached one term president would be an appropriate epitaph for him in the history books.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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