The Greenhouse

gergreg wrote: ↑November 10, 2020, 6:43 pm Ok, so you pushing your own parents, grand parents or elderly relatives or friends to walk the plank to save some money?

Dr Zaius wrote: ↑November 10, 2020, 6:45 pm Healthcare workers are only out ranked by age care workers as the single biggest cohort effected by Covid when the virus runs rampant. I'm willing to put myself in potential harms way for the sake of my community, but I take offence to the suggestion that my health and the health of my colleagues is expendable for the sake of the economy.

greeneyed wrote: ↑November 10, 2020, 7:21 pm No we don’t, we give them the flu vaccine.

gangrenous wrote: ↑November 10, 2020, 5:22 pm

Manbush wrote:Nice to see Trump going out with one last grift, sending out mass emails asking for donations to help pay for the recounts while the fine print says 50-60% of the proceeds will go to paying off campaign debts. Credit where it’s due though if he’s going to pay off debts, first time for everything.

Pardon the pun.

Someone said earlier this was fake news?

On the COVID death rate. It’s going to depend what period of the pandemic you’re looking at, and whether medical services are overwhelmed or not.

rayden83 wrote:

greeneyed wrote: ↑November 10, 2020, 7:21 pm No we don’t, we give them the flu vaccine.

The flu vaccine only protects against some strains of flu, not all.

gangrenous wrote: ↑November 10, 2020, 7:30 pm

rayden83 wrote:

greeneyed wrote: ↑November 10, 2020, 7:21 pm No we don’t, we give them the flu vaccine.

The flu vaccine only protects against some strains of flu, not all.

And you’ll notice GE didn’t say it did. Saying no measures are taken to protect people is wrong.

Although I must say how alarming it was that at the start of COVID people apparently needed to be taught how to wash their **** hands!

1. Claim the election was stolen and whip your hardcore supporters into a frenzy.
2. Solicit donations to 'stop the steal'.
3. Funnel 60% the proceeds elsewhere for personal benefit.
4. 40% of what was raised actually goes towards the listed purpose.

Sterlk wrote: ↑November 10, 2020, 7:48 pm And just on the debt paydown from his latest fundraiser, I think there's an element of this in his refusal to concede (in addition to all the other stuff).

1. Claim the election was stolen and whip your hardcore supporters into a frenzy.
2. Solicit donations to 'stop the steal'.
3. Funnel 60% the proceeds elsewhere for personal benefit.
4. 40% of what was raised actually goes towards the listed purpose.

BJ wrote: ↑November 10, 2020, 6:46 pm

Seiffert82 wrote:

rayden83 wrote: ↑November 10, 2020, 5:13 pm

Seiffert82 wrote: ↑November 10, 2020, 4:43 pm

BJ wrote: ↑November 10, 2020, 3:24 pm I can’t understand how anyone can claim that Covid kills the same percentage of people as does the annual flu.

Do they really think ‘people with or potentially with’ the flu are getting tested for the flu to the same level as Covid testing? Imagine how many people each year have caught the flu each year without formally knowing it or being actually tested?

How many people are tested for the flu each year outside those who attend hospital with the flu? The ‘Divisor’ for the flu calculation is a magnitude of times smaller than the divisor for Covid.

Even based on existing data it appears that the COVID mortality rate is around 3-4%, which is higher than early projections of 1-2% (which I originally expected it to be).

In comparison, flu kills around 0.1% of known cases - as you say though, the number of flu cases each year would be rubbery at best.

rayden quoted Singapore as the comparison country, as they have a COVID mortality rate of about 0.5%, but they don't include non-pneumonia type deaths in their count, such as those who died of COVID related blood or heart issues. Just about every other country is reporting a 3-4% mortality rate, so there is definitely something different about those Singapore figures.

Comparing confirmed cases with confirmed deaths is crude as most people who catch covid do not get tested. In fact in the early days of the epidemic when countries were unprepared, most people did not get tested unless their symptoms were so bad that they had admit to hospital, which obviously skews the figures. The better way to measure is test for antibodies and compare with the official death rate. For example Peru which has a population of about 30 million ,and based on testing they estimate around 35% of the population has antibodies, which translates to a death rate of about 0.5%. When you factor in herd immunity kicking in at around 70% this reduces the death rate to about 0.2%.

https://english.alarabiya.net/en/corona ... antibodies

"The implied fatality rate of 0.5 percent was calculated by dividing the official statewide death count to date of about 15,500 by the estimated number of infected - 14 percent of New York’s 19 million residents, or 2.7 million people."

I'm sorry, but that's fake news.

Why is a lack of comparative data between flu cases and Covid fake news?

Manbush wrote: ↑November 10, 2020, 2:13 pm Nice to see Trump going out with one last grift, sending out mass emails asking for donations to help pay for the recounts while the fine print says 50-60% of the proceeds will go to paying off campaign debts. Credit where it’s due though if he’s going to pay off debts, first time for everything.

The Nickman wrote: ↑November 11, 2020, 10:48 am I'm just stoked to see Manbush finally got his sig in order.

BJ wrote: ↑November 11, 2020, 9:48 am Seiffert 82. Just confirming we are actually on the same page when you say “The implied fatality rate is fake news.”

Which is essentially what I am saying. Relevant, consistent and accurate data to compare between Covid and the Flu as a single figure ‘percentage rate’ is not currently possible. It’s like comparing crash data before and after seatbelts and crash deaths in the horse and buggy era.

Either I’ve misread you or vice versa, as I think we agree (or Tapatalk quoting isn’t clear).

greeneyed wrote: ↑November 11, 2020, 3:58 pm That must be ringing some alarm bells... somewhere.

Seiffert82 wrote: ↑November 11, 2020, 4:14 pm

greeneyed wrote: ↑November 11, 2020, 3:58 pm That must be ringing some alarm bells... somewhere.

Yeah, it's a bit of a worry.

If anyone had any doubt about the mental capacity and temperament of this man to be President, then this move surely raise some cause for concern.

Putin would be proud.

Mickey_Raider wrote: ↑November 11, 2020, 5:12 pm

Seiffert82 wrote: ↑November 11, 2020, 4:14 pm

greeneyed wrote: ↑November 11, 2020, 3:58 pm That must be ringing some alarm bells... somewhere.

Yeah, it's a bit of a worry.

If anyone had any doubt about the mental capacity and temperament of this man to be President, then this move surely raise some cause for concern.

Putin would be proud.

You guys just aren't getting it.

It is a Lamestream media conspiracy and swamps are being drained and Hillary Clinton is a crook and so is Hunter Biden and the polls were wrong in Wisconsin and it was perhaps the greatest win of all time nothing like this has ever been done before.

Oh and despite the numbers the China virus is in fact disappearing they have turned the corner.

rayden83 wrote:

Dr Zaius wrote: ↑November 10, 2020, 6:45 pm Healthcare workers are only out ranked by age care workers as the single biggest cohort effected by Covid when the virus runs rampant. I'm willing to put myself in potential harms way for the sake of my community, but I take offence to the suggestion that my health and the health of my colleagues is expendable for the sake of the economy.

Unfortunately it is, especially for doctors, nurses, teachers police, firefighters, military, truck drivers, petrol station attendants. The economy isn't just about money and quality of life it's about schools, hospitals, mental health, jobs, public safety, livelihoods.

It's not rational to shut down the economy to save perhaps 3 or 4 in 1000 lives. That doesn't just mean swing open the doors and let everyone get sick, but there's no reason we can't stay open and manage the risks for those vulnerable at the same time.

Dr Zaius wrote: Glad to know that myself and friends are expendable. We've had decades of training. Kind of difficult to replace overnight.

gangrenous wrote:

Dr Zaius wrote: Glad to know that myself and friends are expendable. We've had decades of training. Kind of difficult to replace overnight.

Get over yourself mate, I mean how does that training compare to the time that’s been invested digging the depths of QAnon conspiracies on the dark web?

Sheesh.

greeneyed wrote: ↑November 11, 2020, 6:40 pm Major 'evidence' for Trump's wild theory spectacularly collapses: https://au.news.yahoo.com/major-evidenc ... f9cw7lph94

Turns out that in Nevada, Republican claims that 3,000 voters who cast ballots had moved out of the State was primarily comprised of a list of legal voters of Nevada who’d been posted elsewhere with the military!

gergreg wrote:C'mon doc, you and your colleagues should be literally throwing yourselves on coronavirus hand grenades for the sake of the economy. Think of the poor Gerry Harvey's of Australia who have taken a hit over the past year.

Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk

Dr Zaius wrote: ↑November 12, 2020, 5:12 am

gergreg wrote:C'mon doc, you and your colleagues should be literally throwing yourselves on coronavirus hand grenades for the sake of the economy. Think of the poor Gerry Harvey's of Australia who have taken a hit over the past year.

Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk

You are right of course. We are selfish ****.

Botman wrote: ↑November 12, 2020, 7:43 am
I am thankful the leadership in this country have handled it the way they have. It has been very tough on the economy, but we're capable of absorbing that and helping those people get back on their feet. As are the US btw.... what you can't do is bring back 250,000 people

Botman wrote:I can only speak for myself, but i would not particularly fond of the idea of sacrificing my wife (doctor) and 4x grand parents who play major roles in my families life so that some orange fascist can run into an election on the grounds of economic strength just to allow the Rayden's of the world to continue the boot licking.

I am thankful the leadership in this country have handled it the way they have. It has been very tough on the economy, but we're capable of absorbing that and helping those people get back on their feet. As are the US btw.... what you can't do is bring back 250,000 people