The Politics Thread 2020

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greeneyed
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by greeneyed »

Nope. A rant telling us he saved the world from the pandemic.

All the networks now reporting Biden 306 Trump 232... which is the exact margin Trump won by four years ago, which he described as a landslide.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

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Didn’t age well.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

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Trump took another fat L in court this morning

Michigan judge rejects demand to block certification of Biden win in Detroit and debunks fraud claims: https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/13/politics ... index.html
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by Dr Zaius »

An interesting article on the various reasons 70 million voted for Trump
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-15/ ... fmredir=sm
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by gangrenous »

Dr Zaius wrote:An interesting article on the various reasons 70 million voted for Trump
And yet, no good ones.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by Dr Zaius »

gangrenous wrote:
Dr Zaius wrote:An interesting article on the various reasons 70 million voted for Trump
And yet, no good ones.
Key to defeating Trumpism is understanding it
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The Politics Thread 2020

Post by The Nickman »

Dr Zaius wrote:
gangrenous wrote:
Dr Zaius wrote:An interesting article on the various reasons 70 million voted for Trump
And yet, no good ones.
Key to defeating Trumpism is understanding it
Or, y’know, just let enough of them die due to the pandemic he failed to address suitably
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by greeneyed »

Dr Zaius wrote: November 15, 2020, 10:16 am
gangrenous wrote:
Dr Zaius wrote:An interesting article on the various reasons 70 million voted for Trump
And yet, no good ones.
Key to defeating Trumpism is understanding it
It’s difficult to understand some of the views, the racism, xenophobia and violent gun toting.
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The Politics Thread 2020

Post by gangrenous »

greeneyed wrote:
Dr Zaius wrote: November 15, 2020, 10:16 am
gangrenous wrote:
Dr Zaius wrote:An interesting article on the various reasons 70 million voted for Trump
And yet, no good ones.
Key to defeating Trumpism is understanding it
It’s difficult to understand some of the views, the racism, xenophobia and violent gun toting.
Yeah. I feel like the most part we understand it. They’re either:
* Rich and selfish
* Conservative and want to stick with someone who’ll ban abortions etc.
* Gun nuts who are worried about losing their weapons.
* Poorer people struggling to get by who are desperate for change and will try anything that seems different.
* People who mistake a proper societal support system for all out communism.
* People with general jerk views on things like race, who like feeling like less of a jerk because the president of the country is also a jerk. They also really hate their jerk views being called out by the other guys (who do have a tendency to overreach on calling people jerks over things that actually do need discussion).

Or some mix of the above.

The question is what you do about that politically?

The conservatives, gun nuts and jerks seem like pretty well lost causes.

So you’ve got to convince the selfish that they’ll do better under you... good luck with that if you want to help the battlers.

Which pretty much leaves you with trying to convince those who are struggling that things can be better without the Trump approach. But so many of them seem to fall in the category which is terrified of anything that sounds like communism, that it’s a tough sell to convince them you can have a successful capitalist society that rewards success yet places some stronger constraints on the extent of inequality.

In a nutshell, I reckon they’re pretty rooted.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by Dr Zaius »


gangrenous wrote:
greeneyed wrote:
Dr Zaius wrote: November 15, 2020, 10:16 am
gangrenous wrote:
Dr Zaius wrote:An interesting article on the various reasons 70 million voted for Trump
And yet, no good ones.
Key to defeating Trumpism is understanding it
It’s difficult to understand some of the views, the racism, xenophobia and violent gun toting.
Yeah. I feel like the most part we understand it. They’re either:
* Rich and selfish
* Conservative and want to stick with someone who’ll ban abortions etc.
* Gun nuts who are worried about losing their weapons.
* Poorer people struggling to get by who are desperate for change and will try anything that seems different.
* People who mistake a proper societal support system for all out communism.
* People with general jerk views on things like race, who like feeling like less of a jerk because the president of the country is also a jerk. They also really hate their jerk views being called out by the other guys (who do have a tendency to overreach on calling people jerks over things that actually do need discussion).

Or some mix of the above.

The question is what you do about that politically?

The conservatives, gun nuts and jerks seem like pretty well lost causes.

So you’ve got to convince the selfish that they’ll do better under you... good luck with that if you want to help the battlers.

Which pretty much leaves you with trying to convince those who are struggling that things can be better without the Trump approach. But so many of them seem to fall in the category which is terrified of anything that sounds like communism, that it’s a tough sell to convince them you can have a successful capitalist society that rewards success yet places some stronger constraints on the extent of inequality.

In a nutshell, I reckon they’re pretty rooted.

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Fair summary

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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by Seiffert82 »

Dr Zaius wrote: November 15, 2020, 7:56 am An interesting article on the various reasons 70 million voted for Trump
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-15/ ... fmredir=sm
Thanks Dr Z, that was an interesting read.

Certainly some challenging days ahead for the Republican party more generally, if those stats on "Trump" supporters, vs traditional conservative supporters are correct. It really seems to be a divided nation with a divided party.

It also supports the notion that there are a large number of Trump voters out there who aren't traditional Republicans, but are are simply desperate for a leader who can sell them a vision of America being a self-reliant, white dominated country... Where the people have the freedom to do and say whatever they want. They don't care that Trump largely got into politics to build his business empire and is wheeling and dealing in the international market to make himself more wealthy and powerful, while telling Americans that America doesn't need the rest of the world. They don't care about the lies and impacts of global unrest. They want to live in their own little bubble.

It's also interesting to hear the view that Biden or the Democrats may never be able to reach out to these people, despite them not being traditional Republican voters.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by gergreg »

Trump supporters huh?

https://www.facebook.com/thedailyshow/v ... /?sfnsn=mo

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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by Dr Zaius »

gergreg wrote:Trump supporters huh?

https://www.facebook.com/thedailyshow/v ... /?sfnsn=mo

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Good grief. They need to put more iodine in the salt over there.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

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gergreg wrote: November 15, 2020, 7:48 pm Trump supporters huh?

https://www.facebook.com/thedailyshow/v ... /?sfnsn=mo

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:lol:

Scary to think there are literally millions of these people out there.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by greeneyed »

gergreg wrote: November 15, 2020, 7:48 pm Trump supporters huh?

https://www.facebook.com/thedailyshow/v ... /?sfnsn=mo

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That is classic.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by Mickey_Raider »

greeneyed wrote: November 15, 2020, 10:10 pm
gergreg wrote: November 15, 2020, 7:48 pm Trump supporters huh?

https://www.facebook.com/thedailyshow/v ... /?sfnsn=mo

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That is classic.
There is clearly a sizeable subset within the Trump supporter base who use him as a conduit to validate their latent or not so latent xenophobic tendencies. Exhibit A is the attached link.

Every now and then there will be commentary expressing the need to find out why, and address, the idea that these kinds of people "are not being listened to".

Frankly, I think these people should remain unheard. They are exactly the kinds of people I'd imagine Socrates was skeptical about in respect of handing over the responsibility of democracy.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

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Exhibit b: https://twitter.com/Daytobehappy/status ... 66883?s=19

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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

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Mickey_Raider wrote: November 16, 2020, 9:55 am
greeneyed wrote: November 15, 2020, 10:10 pm
gergreg wrote: November 15, 2020, 7:48 pm Trump supporters huh?

https://www.facebook.com/thedailyshow/v ... /?sfnsn=mo

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That is classic.
There is clearly a sizeable subset within the Trump supporter base who use him as a conduit to validate their latent or not so latent xenophobic tendencies. Exhibit A is the attached link.

Every now and then there will be commentary expressing the need to find out why, and address, the idea that these kinds of people "are not being listened to".

Frankly, I think these people should remain unheard. They are exactly the kinds of people I'd imagine Socrates was skeptical about in respect of handing over the responsibility of democracy.
Yeah, that ABC article that Zaius shared (which indicated around 50% of Republican voters were largely Trump supporters) basically indicated that around 30-35 million people (or ~10% of the US population) were just waiting for a leader who made them feel OK to publicly demonstrate their xenophobic attitudes. It's obviously the same sentiment that led to Brexit and One Nation etc. These people might be in the absolute minority, but when the agenda of their figurehead gets hitched to the wagon of a mainstream political party, all hell can break loose.

These voters clearly aren't interested in the actual political debate or the truth - they just want a platform to express their outrage. It's almost exactly how and why the Nazi party gained power in Germany and why Brexit got up in the UK, on the back of their nationalistic platforms. We're seeing it all over the world again - India, Austria, Turkey, Japan. It's not unique to America. These people really are just too stupid to see that the fascist approach of Trump and his ilk will ultimately lead to suppressing their voices. Thankfully it's also why a significant number of Republicans publicly expressed their concerns about these protests.

Fun and games. When a global superpower is involved, it's both interesting and bloody scary all at the same time.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by papabear »

gangrenous wrote: November 15, 2020, 11:32 am
greeneyed wrote:
Dr Zaius wrote: November 15, 2020, 10:16 am
gangrenous wrote:
Dr Zaius wrote:An interesting article on the various reasons 70 million voted for Trump
And yet, no good ones.
Key to defeating Trumpism is understanding it
It’s difficult to understand some of the views, the racism, xenophobia and violent gun toting.
Yeah. I feel like the most part we understand it. They’re either:
* Rich and selfish
* Conservative and want to stick with someone who’ll ban abortions etc.
* Gun nuts who are worried about losing their weapons.
* Poorer people struggling to get by who are desperate for change and will try anything that seems different.
* People who mistake a proper societal support system for all out communism.
* People with general jerk views on things like race, who like feeling like less of a jerk because the president of the country is also a jerk. They also really hate their jerk views being called out by the other guys (who do have a tendency to overreach on calling people jerks over things that actually do need discussion).

Or some mix of the above.

The question is what you do about that politically?

The conservatives, gun nuts and jerks seem like pretty well lost causes.

So you’ve got to convince the selfish that they’ll do better under you... good luck with that if you want to help the battlers.

Which pretty much leaves you with trying to convince those who are struggling that things can be better without the Trump approach. But so many of them seem to fall in the category which is terrified of anything that sounds like communism, that it’s a tough sell to convince them you can have a successful capitalist society that rewards success yet places some stronger constraints on the extent of inequality.

In a nutshell, I reckon they’re pretty rooted.
I like your thinking in the above.

Though on a domestic front I think we have gone to far, whereby:-
- welfare especially during corona virus is limiting work motivation.
- family tax benefits and changes to child care are just a kick in the guts to the self sufficient and giving people who don’t work complete multiple days off in the week doing nothing.
- a taxation system that remains manifestly unfair to those who take risks and run successful small businesses.

I think as a country we have always firmly tried to be fair and give everyone a fair go and a chance to make a life, but in giving chance after chance we have become to enabling and punitive...

That all said I still think we have most things pretty right. I would just a scale back our middle class welfare / Covid welfare supplements and change our tax system.
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The Politics Thread 2020

Post by gangrenous »

papabear wrote: Though on a domestic front I think we have gone to far, whereby:-
- welfare especially during corona virus is limiting work motivation.
- family tax benefits and changes to child care are just a kick in the guts to the self sufficient and giving people who don’t work complete multiple days off in the week doing nothing.
- a taxation system that remains manifestly unfair to those who take risks and run successful small businesses.
I think the Covid support has been fairly well done. The updates to reduce the number of people getting substantial increases from part time work were good. But I think for these payments the good has generally outweighed the bad from what we’ve seen and heard so far.

What’s your concern on the family tax and the childcare change?

What do you see as unfair for small businesses?

I’d like to see reduction in upper class welfare and change to the tax system. But we’re going to differ in how Image

Negative gearing, CGT discounts on housing. Franking credit refunds for the wealthy. They can go. Be nice if the tax system could be simplified to do away with deductions and minimisation schemes.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by Manbush »

So add DHS cybersecurity chief to those who have been sacked for not being big enough sycophants.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by Manbush »

Just on abortions it’s a major vote winner for Republicans but if voters actually wanted to decrease abortions the Democrats policies would be far better, universal healthcare, welfare, proper sex education etc.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

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gangrenous wrote: November 17, 2020, 7:10 pm
papabear wrote: Though on a domestic front I think we have gone to far, whereby:-
- welfare especially during corona virus is limiting work motivation.
- family tax benefits and changes to child care are just a kick in the guts to the self sufficient and giving people who don’t work complete multiple days off in the week doing nothing.
- a taxation system that remains manifestly unfair to those who take risks and run successful small businesses.
I think the Covid support has been fairly well done. The updates to reduce the number of people getting substantial increases from part time work were good. But I think for these payments the good has generally outweighed the bad from what we’ve seen and heard so far.

What’s your concern on the family tax and the childcare change?

What do you see as unfair for small businesses?

I’d like to see reduction in upper class welfare and change to the tax system. But we’re going to differ in how Image

Negative gearing, CGT discounts on housing. Franking credit refunds for the wealthy. They can go. Be nice if the tax system could be simplified to do away with deductions and minimisation schemes.
The covid support has been well done, but its easily time to move to more specific support for sectors and not the whole demand side of the economy, some sectors are booming, some need help airports /airlines / travel etc.

Family Tax Benefit I would remove it, if you cant afford children the govt shouldnt be incentivising decisions people would otherwise not make. Its just money down the toilet and substantially so imo.

If a bloke runs a business his whole life starts of earning 40k as a mechanic (or even less) does 10 -20 years hard slog earning peanuts, goes out on his own runs a nice business flogging himself into the ground working with him taking out say 400k. IMO it is unjust to tax him 168k a year. Given the risk / effort to make that 232k in the hand.

Franking credits for the wealthy, as in all franking credits for all people over a certain income level? or specifics - this seems to be playing class warfare unless you can come up with something less offensive :P

Negative gearing? all asset classes or just houses, or interest expenses is no longer deductable? because if interest is no longer deductable say goodbye to your economy... on houses, I am yet to read a persuasive argument as to why owning houses should be different from owning other things generating an income, but I agree you could bring some discipline to the system.

CGT discounts on housing, I will go one better. Remove CGT all together, that way all asset classes compete on the same playing field, I have already written up why CGT is a ridiculous tax. With that would also remove capital losses, oddly enough capital losses arent treated as income such as capital gains... odd that..

If you want to simplify the tax system, one very simple change will help it.

Reduce the highest marginal rate to the company rate. Move the company rate back to 30 or 35 or whatever. If you are concerned about revenue, make it quicker for people to get onto that top rate, if not concerned about tax revenue leave the threshholds where they are. But the single highest and by far motivating factor for people to set up structures is due to the absurdly high personal tax rate.



Realistically, I know as many if not more people on welfare during non covid times then I do not on welfare, if you include FTB 80% of people I know are on it.

Most people I know on welfare have greater capacity but are simply not going to move in the current economic / tax / welfare climate of australia to do what it takes and that is fine. I dont necessarily want people to make different decisions, if you dont wanna work like a dog in australia in an industry that isnt your "passion" fine, but we should not be so strong incentivising those who havent made sacrifices from those that make sacrifices every single day.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by Mickey_Raider »

lefties might mean well when they oppose tax cuts, but they are often ultimately misguided.

Taxes don't fund government spending, so no one needs to be "concerned about revenue" in regards to tax cuts.

The concern instead with tax cuts is that they can create inflationary pressures through excessively turbocharging demand if they aren't concentrated in the right areas.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by greeneyed »

Mickey_Raider wrote: November 18, 2020, 8:23 pm
Taxes don't fund government spending, so no one needs to be "concerned about revenue" in regards to tax cuts.

The concern instead with tax cuts is that they can create inflationary pressures through excessively turbocharging demand if they aren't concentrated in the right areas.
There have been some hot takes in The Politics Thread lately, but that one takes the cake!
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greeneyed wrote: November 18, 2020, 9:49 pm
Mickey_Raider wrote: November 18, 2020, 8:23 pm
Taxes don't fund government spending, so no one needs to be "concerned about revenue" in regards to tax cuts.

The concern instead with tax cuts is that they can create inflationary pressures through excessively turbocharging demand if they aren't concentrated in the right areas.
There have been some hot takes in The Politics Thread lately, but that one takes the cake!
It is a pretty straightforward take when you understand functional finance. I went to some lengths to explain it to you a few months back but you remain convinced AUD's just organically appear in the non-government sector, rather than actually having to have been spent there in the first place by the only entity that can issue the currency (and this is before any levying of taxes can take place).
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by greeneyed »

Mickey_Raider wrote: November 19, 2020, 7:31 am
greeneyed wrote: November 18, 2020, 9:49 pm
Mickey_Raider wrote: November 18, 2020, 8:23 pm
Taxes don't fund government spending, so no one needs to be "concerned about revenue" in regards to tax cuts.

The concern instead with tax cuts is that they can create inflationary pressures through excessively turbocharging demand if they aren't concentrated in the right areas.
There have been some hot takes in The Politics Thread lately, but that one takes the cake!
It is a pretty straightforward take when you understand functional finance. I went to some lengths to explain it to you a few months back but you remain convinced AUD's just organically appear in the non-government sector, rather than actually having to have been spent there in the first place by the only entity that can issue the currency (and this is before any levying of taxes can take place).
Your explanation makes no economic sense. I'm an economist, I have worked my entire life as an economist, and I don't know a single economist who would subscribe to what you're saying. You are fundamentally misunderstanding the difference between financial and real transactions. The issue of currency is not a real transaction and it is not "spent" when it is issued. I certainly understand "functional finance" theories. The extreme versions of that were discredited a long time ago.

Most economists would agree with demand management from government and government intervention to help smooth business cycles. I certainly do. But if there is no belief that there is real economic activity to support the government's interventions in the long run, the whole show comes crashing down.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by Mickey_Raider »

greeneyed wrote: November 19, 2020, 9:04 am
Mickey_Raider wrote: November 19, 2020, 7:31 am
greeneyed wrote: November 18, 2020, 9:49 pm
Mickey_Raider wrote: November 18, 2020, 8:23 pm
Taxes don't fund government spending, so no one needs to be "concerned about revenue" in regards to tax cuts.

The concern instead with tax cuts is that they can create inflationary pressures through excessively turbocharging demand if they aren't concentrated in the right areas.
There have been some hot takes in The Politics Thread lately, but that one takes the cake!
It is a pretty straightforward take when you understand functional finance. I went to some lengths to explain it to you a few months back but you remain convinced AUD's just organically appear in the non-government sector, rather than actually having to have been spent there in the first place by the only entity that can issue the currency (and this is before any levying of taxes can take place).
Your explanation makes no economic sense. I'm an economist, I have worked my entire life as an economist, and I don't know a single economist who would subscribe to what you're saying. You are fundamentally misunderstanding the difference between financial and real transactions. The issue of currency is not a real transaction and it is not "spent" when it is issued. You are fundamentally misunderstanding "functional finance".
What is it with economists believing their positions are unassailable due to their status as an economist?

Moreover, it is concerning but also a little surprising that as a career economist you claim to be completely unaware of Post-Keynesian economics - it is not exactly a fringe school of thought.

I will just leave you to scratch your head in bewilderment along with all your other Austrian-trained colleagues as the "national debt" continues to rise, inflation stays low and you all keep talking about interest rates on said debt as if they are controlled independently of the central bank.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by greeneyed »

I'm quite well aware of post Keynesian economics. I guess the benefit of formal economic qualifications is that you develop a deep understanding of various economic frameworks. I've done my best to explain where you seem to a bit lost... but clearly, we're not going to get anywhere discussing it on the internet.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

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greeneyed wrote: November 19, 2020, 12:58 pm I'm quite well aware of post Keynesian economics. I guess the benefit of formal economic qualifications is that you develop a deep understanding of various economic frameworks. I've done my best to explain where you seem to a bit lost... but clearly, we're not going to get anywhere discussing it on the internet.
It is funny, I have talked to multiple people trained in economics who stared at me blankly and told me I was wrong when I explained the process of (for example) bond auctions and ex nihilo money creation in fiat money systems.

But when I pressed for a counter explanation, they just simply didn't have one; they could offer nothing more than shallow bromides regarding "China calling in debts" and an insistence that this is what they studied so they are right and I am wrong and we aren't going to agree so no point discussing further.

I guess in my field I expect a higher level of academic rigour from people holding themselves out to be professionals but perhaps based on my anecdotes my expectations for the economics field are a bit too high.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by papabear »

I feel like we are moving away from the core reason of this thread which is to demand a uniform tax rate between personal income tax and company tax.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by greeneyed »

Mickey_Raider wrote: November 19, 2020, 2:16 pm
greeneyed wrote: November 19, 2020, 12:58 pm I'm quite well aware of post Keynesian economics. I guess the benefit of formal economic qualifications is that you develop a deep understanding of various economic frameworks. I've done my best to explain where you seem to a bit lost... but clearly, we're not going to get anywhere discussing it on the internet.
It is funny, I have talked to multiple people trained in economics who stared at me blankly and told me I was wrong when I explained the process of (for example) bond auctions and ex nihilo money creation in fiat money systems.

But when I pressed for a counter explanation, they just simply didn't have one; they could offer nothing more than shallow bromides regarding "China calling in debts" and an insistence that this is what they studied so they are right and I am wrong and we aren't going to agree so no point discussing further.

I guess in my field I expect a higher level of academic rigour from people holding themselves out to be professionals but perhaps based on my anecdotes my expectations for the economics field are a bit too high.
I’ve given you an explanation as to where you’re misunderstanding how things work... but you’re not accepting it, so I can’t do much more.
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gangrenous
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The Politics Thread 2020

Post by gangrenous »

Mickey_Raider wrote:
greeneyed wrote: November 19, 2020, 12:58 pm I'm quite well aware of post Keynesian economics. I guess the benefit of formal economic qualifications is that you develop a deep understanding of various economic frameworks. I've done my best to explain where you seem to a bit lost... but clearly, we're not going to get anywhere discussing it on the internet.
It is funny, I have talked to multiple people trained in economics who stared at me blankly and told me I was wrong when I explained the process of (for example) bond auctions and ex nihilo money creation in fiat money systems.

But when I pressed for a counter explanation, they just simply didn't have one; they could offer nothing more than shallow bromides regarding "China calling in debts" and an insistence that this is what they studied so they are right and I am wrong and we aren't going to agree so no point discussing further.

I guess in my field I expect a higher level of academic rigour from people holding themselves out to be professionals but perhaps based on my anecdotes my expectations for the economics field are a bit too high.
Misguided post uncharacteristic of you Mickey Image

What other numptys do or don’t do doesn’t really have relevance to your attitude to a poster who has demonstrated he’s a critical thinker (origin period aside) and with deep experience in the area.

It doesn’t mean he can’t be wrong. But it does mean you want to mount a good case for why he is before completely deriding his training and years of experience. I can think of other posters that this post is more befitting of.
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gangrenous
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by gangrenous »

papabear wrote: Family Tax Benefit I would remove it, if you cant afford children the govt shouldnt be incentivising decisions people would otherwise not make. Its just money down the toilet and substantially so imo.
How about if you considered it a form of bill-smoothing?
papabear wrote: If a bloke runs a business his whole life starts of earning 40k as a mechanic (or even less) does 10 -20 years hard slog earning peanuts, goes out on his own runs a nice business flogging himself into the ground working with him taking out say 400k. IMO it is unjust to tax him 168k a year. Given the risk / effort to make that 232k in the hand.
You don’t think 8 times his salary and a practically infinite increase in disposable income is sufficient reward?
papabear wrote: Franking credits for the wealthy, as in all franking credits for all people over a certain income level? or specifics - this seems to be playing class warfare unless you can come up with something less offensive :P
I was thinking asset tested. Disagreeing with this seems to run counter to your middle class welfare concerns.
papabear wrote: Negative gearing? all asset classes or just houses, or interest expenses is no longer deductable? because if interest is no longer deductable say goodbye to your economy... on houses, I am yet to read a persuasive argument as to why owning houses should be different from owning other things generating an income, but I agree you could bring some discipline to the system.
Just housing is my focus. I think it’s different because it’s an asset everyone needs to use and there is significant equality and self-sufficiency benefits from making home ownership achievable for larger proportions of the population.
papabear wrote: Reduce the highest marginal rate to the company rate. Move the company rate back to 30 or 35 or whatever. If you are concerned about revenue, make it quicker for people to get onto that top rate, if not concerned about tax revenue leave the threshholds where they are. But the single highest and by far motivating factor for people to set up structures is due to the absurdly high personal tax rate.
Sounds good to me in theory. I’m sure there’s some good practical reasons why it doesn’t work Image
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Re: The Politics Thread 2020

Post by Manbush »

Georgia recount is done, drumroll.................. Trump loses again, can they recount every state watching Trump lose a 2nd time is even more entertaining than the first time.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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