Coronavirus

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greeneyed
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by greeneyed »

Here you go... Clearly, significant mistakes look to have been made in WA hotel quarantine. Accountability needs to follow. Fortunately WA seems to be doing pretty well with testing and have had no new cases for three days. Hopefully their systems are going to get on top of it.

I’ve never said that NSW’s system “is so bad”. What I’ve pointed out is that every jurisdiction has made significant errors and NSW is not free of that criticism. In addition, while some seem to think the NSW Premier can do no wrong, she has been playing politics just like all the other politicians... has publicly provoked other Premiers into comments (like the ones that have been criticised above)... and refused to call out the likes of Craig Kelly as he’s on her side of politics. Some people seem to be coming from a certain political/State perspective in discussions, but I’m not. I think all the jurisdictions have made errors, and all the politicians are doing what politicians do.
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Azza
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Azza »

While some people seem to think WA and its premier can do no wrong, he has been playing politics just like all other politicians.... and has publicly provoked other Premiers into comments.

I hope that this might make the WA premier think again about his ridiculous approach to borders...but I doubt it.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Dr Zaius »

I don't think that I recall any of the Premiers calling out Craig Kelly. I'm not sure why you consider it the role of the NSW Premier to call out a Federal backbencher. More likely that is the role of the Prime Minister who has been disappointingly quiet.
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greeneyed
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by greeneyed »

She was asked, given both are members of the NSW Liberal Party. Seems a reasonable question and reasonable to get an answer. The PM says he has laid down the law to Kelly today.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Dr Zaius »

greeneyed wrote:She was asked, given both are members of the NSW Liberal Party. Seems a reasonable question and reasonable to get an answer. The PM says he has laid down the law to Kelly today.
So what was the question, and what was her answer?

Edit watched the video. It's a reasonable question, but it's also a reasonable answer. She said that her view is that we should follow the health advice. When pushed she said that he is not on her team. As you said, the leader of his team addressed it today (finally).

When have other premiers been asked about or publicly given an appraisal of a Federal member?

I think criticism of the non sanctioning of Kelly belongs squarely at the feet of the federal libs. Anyone trying to smear the NSW Premier with this is clutching at straws.

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about Berejiiklian, or just NSW in general.
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Dr Zaius
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Dr Zaius »

Quarantine worker in Victoria tests positive.

Dan Andrews showing some good sense. Tightening some restrictions, masks indoors and putting faith in contact tracing. No lockdowns.

The heads of those Dan Andrews groupies that praise the *short, sharp lockdowns" just exploded
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by RedRaider »

I think this is a sensible response from Dan Andrews as reported on 9 news:

Mr Andrews urged for people to remain calm but get tested immediately if they develop any symptoms.

"This is one case. There's no need for people to panic," he said.

"There's no need for people to be alarmed. We Victorians know what to do, and we have proven, as a state, very successful at managing these sorts of outbreaks, these sorts of issues."

Compare that with the WA response of a widespread 5 day shut down with ABC TV showing clips of people rushing supermarkets (no social distancing in the supermarkets evident) and the toilet paper disappearing from the shelves.
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greeneyed
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by greeneyed »

Dr Zaius wrote: February 3, 2021, 8:08 pm You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about Berejiiklian, or just NSW in general.
I disagree with the interpretations. I have a bee in my bonnet about neither. I have simply been pointing out some things which some people, for whatever reason, have been choosing to ignore. I also think there’s been a fair bit of commentary that could be much more balanced.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Dr Zaius »

greeneyed wrote:
Dr Zaius wrote: February 3, 2021, 8:08 pm You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about Berejiiklian, or just NSW in general.
I disagree with the interpretations. I have a bee in my bonnet about neither. I have simply been pointing out some things which some people, for whatever reason, have been choosing to ignore. I also think there’s been a fair bit of commentary that could be much more balanced.
Oh come now GE, your commentary on NSW has been very unbalanced.

There has been no acknowledgement that they have done something remarkable, something that no other jurisdiction in the world has done, not once but twice.

Instead you've turned your focus on issues such as the premier not pulling into line someone that she has no authority over, and probably has never even met.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by The Nickman »

Haha yeah, GE's views on this topic are absolutely ludicrous and absurd. His whole commentary is based around either a) an anti-NSW bias, 2) his preference of Labor over Liberal or d) a combination of both.

What's interesting to me in all of these discussions either here or elsewhere that I've seen is that people who like to push the Queensland and WA have done such a good job over NSW line are all rabid Labor supporters.

Dr Zaius, on the other hand, I know for a fact is speaking just from the facts and numbers as he sees them, NSW has been world-class with their approach to date, that's a fact. I also know that he's in no way right-leaning, in fact he's quite the opposite.

This whole thing is just Labor supporters doing mental gymnastics to make this whole issue partisan and it's just absolutely garbage behaviour when we're discussing a world-wide pandemic where significant lives are being lost on a daily basis.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Azza »

GE's vendetta aside, I think the constant issues with hotel quarantine are the writing on the wall. We absolutely need to start moving arrivals to remote facilities for quarantine, especially with these new strains coming to the fore.
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greeneyed
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by greeneyed »

Some absolutely ridiculous, and certainly false, claims there. But it is the internet, and I shouldn't be surprised that views get misrepresented and twisted.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad »

greeneyed wrote: February 4, 2021, 11:23 am Some absolutely ridiculous, and certainly false, claims there.
I stopped reading once I saw Nickman praise NSW again, adding that to the quote list come Origin time
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by The Nickman »

I mean, the fact that I'm prepared to praise NSW in any way, shape or form should be testament to how well they're actually going.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by The Nickman »

Azza wrote: February 4, 2021, 11:05 am GE's vendetta aside, I think the constant issues with hotel quarantine are the writing on the wall. We absolutely need to start moving arrivals to remote facilities for quarantine, especially with these new strains coming to the fore.
Yeah agreed, there's a fully functional and operational camp outside of Gladstone that is completely empty that would be perfect for the job, but of course, uneducated locals are kicking up a fuss.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by The Nickman »

This camp, right here, which is twenty minutes out of Gladstone, is sitting completely empty. It's ludicrous.

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Azza
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Azza »

The Nickman wrote: February 4, 2021, 12:47 pm This camp, right here, which is twenty minutes out of Gladstone, is sitting completely empty. It's ludicrous.

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by papabear »

Some interesting stats from:-
https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default ... antine.pdf

Have a look at attachment A

from 28 March to 28 August
NSW has bought in 50% of flights and international travellers, population of aust 29.7%
QLD has 21% of flight, 15% of international travellers , pop 20%
Vic has 10% of flights and 21% of travellers (sardining the bastards), pop 26%
WA has about 10% of both 11% pop about 10.5%
SA has about 1-2% pop about 6.5%
TAS has 0% .. pop 2%
NT 8% of flights 1% of int travellers, pop bit below 1%
ACT 500 ppl and 3 flights, a pretty **** effort almost as bad as tasmania

Realistically
NSW has been doing by far the heavy lifting well above its population to get people home and running a quarantine program for the same reasons.
QLD are doing less then they should be. But really, nobody expects anything of QLD expect to be a holiday destination for NSW and retirement destination. They failed at column A with their border closures.
Victoria are doing way less then they should be. Circus act of a state, with a premier who likes putting his face on tv more then getting people home and his economy going.
WA did adequately given there size.
SA - Joke,
Tas - Joke
NT - pretty good really.
ACT - Joke

Border closures, everyone bar NSW seems to be making it a very political issue, imo the rest of the country takes NSW very much for granted.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by The Nickman »

For once in my life I agree with everything papbear says.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Azza »

The Nickman wrote: February 4, 2021, 3:57 pm For once in my life I agree with everything papbear says.
Would ya shut up woman! He's talking about my leader
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Coronavirus

Post by gangrenous »

But rough on Vic aren’t you papa?

Got a higher intake proportionally than Qld, and the date range covers a decent period where international flights to Vic were halted due to the breakout doesn’t it?

I’m not too fussed on the smaller states/territories copping out. As long as they contribute financially to the systems of others it doesn’t really make sense to spread the risk and duplicate systems to me.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by gangrenous »

Dr Zaius wrote: There has been no acknowledgement that they have done something remarkable, something that no other jurisdiction in the world has done, not once but twice.
That seems to be stretching thing a little? No other jurisdiction has contact traced and halted an outbreak?
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Re: Coronavirus

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gangrenous wrote: February 4, 2021, 6:09 pm
Dr Zaius wrote: There has been no acknowledgement that they have done something remarkable, something that no other jurisdiction in the world has done, not once but twice.
That seems to be stretching thing a little? No other jurisdiction has contact traced and halted an outbreak?
We're talking a significant outbreak, several chains of community transmission, to a point of elimination, without a widespread and sustained lock down. Can you name one? Melbourne got back to elimination, after a lockdown. Wuhan, lockdown. Can you honestly think of anywhere that has had a proper outbreak and got down to zero numbers without lockdown?
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Dr Zaius »

papabear wrote: February 4, 2021, 3:18 pmBorder closures, everyone bar NSW seems to be making it a very political issue, imo the rest of the country takes NSW very much for granted.
Nailed it papabear

I'd give Victoria some leeway. They stopped taking returnees when they went to lockdown, which is only sensible.

Its a reasonable point gangrenous makes about not being not too fussed about the smaller states not pulling their weight, as long as they contribute financially. Problem is that they are not, and there doesn't appear to be a lot of gratitude. In fact, you have knobs like the WA premier throwing hand grenades from the peanut gallery.

The numbers for NSW speak for themselves. Most tests of any state, although lower than Victoria on a per capita basis. Taken 50% of returnees. Shut down multiple large clusters without lockdown. Are the only major capital not to lockdown citywide since the initial lockdown. Apart from the Victorian border (Which was obviously needed and a bit too late), the only state or territory not to close its border.

I know doubt that I come across as a parochial NSW supporter. I'm overcompensating in support for them due to the constant unwarranted criticism they cop in social media. The reality is that they have done a phenomenal job, have done the heavy lifting for this country, and instead of gratitude get derided. When the Adelaide outbreak occurred I told everyone that would listen that there would be more to come. When the Northern Beaches outbreak occurred, people (not necessarily in this thread) were very vocal about labelling NSW incompetent. My reply was that quarantine was difficult, there would be more leaks to come, and given that NSW is doing the most quarantining, they were the highest risk. I was shouted down. Since then Brisbane, Perth and now Melbourne have had leaks. There is little labelling of those jurisdictions as incompetent by those same people. No those people, disappointed by their zero case numbers, are scratching around for other things to deride NSW by. You know that someone is scratching around if they drag out the Ruby Princess from March, or call out a State Premier for not putting a Federal backbencher in their place. Its not a stretch to think that those people are seeing through an impartial lens.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by The Nickman »

Dr Zaius wrote:
gangrenous wrote: February 4, 2021, 6:09 pm
Dr Zaius wrote: There has been no acknowledgement that they have done something remarkable, something that no other jurisdiction in the world has done, not once but twice.
That seems to be stretching thing a little? No other jurisdiction has contact traced and halted an outbreak?
We're talking a significant outbreak, several chains of community transmission, to a point of elimination, without a widespread and sustained lock down. Can you name one? Melbourne got back to elimination, after a lockdown. Wuhan, lockdown. Can you honestly think of anywhere that has had a proper outbreak and got down to zero numbers without lockdown?
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by greeneyed »

So you’re over compensating for discussions happening elsewhere and I’m getting attacked for adding valid points and balance here? OK.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Dr Zaius »

greeneyed wrote:So you’re over compensating for discussions happening elsewhere and I’m getting attacked for adding valid points and balance here? OK.
If that's how you read it, sure. Sure why not.

Your points aren't valid, at least I don't think so. You are regurgitating the same BS that other people on social media are. And not attacking you. I'm saying that your points aren't valid and are not coming from a place of objectivity, rather they are coming from a place of bias. If you feel that I am attacking you then I apologise. I didn't realise that you are so thin skinned.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by greeneyed »

We’ll simply have to differ on the validity of the points. I regard them as quite valid and reputable, independent news reports have raised the same issues. I believe I’ve been quite reasonable in making criticisms and giving praise regardless of political colours and States over a long period. Overall, I think Australia has done very well as a whole, and the States in particular have done a pretty good job. I stand by the view that not a single jurisdiction has not made errors, some of them quite significant, nor is there any politician who has not played politics in public. They have been doing what politicians do.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by gangrenous »

Dr Zaius wrote:
gangrenous wrote: February 4, 2021, 6:09 pm
Dr Zaius wrote: There has been no acknowledgement that they have done something remarkable, something that no other jurisdiction in the world has done, not once but twice.
That seems to be stretching thing a little? No other jurisdiction has contact traced and halted an outbreak?
We're talking a significant outbreak, several chains of community transmission, to a point of elimination, without a widespread and sustained lock down. Can you name one? Melbourne got back to elimination, after a lockdown. Wuhan, lockdown. Can you honestly think of anywhere that has had a proper outbreak and got down to zero numbers without lockdown?
Did Victoria lockdown within the state when it branched from Sydney? Or close the border and contact trace?

New Zealand locked down again when they had that breakout didn’t they...

No, from a quick look you may be right. Doesn’t seem to be anywhere yelling it from the rooftops...
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Dr Zaius »

gangrenous wrote:
Dr Zaius wrote:
gangrenous wrote: February 4, 2021, 6:09 pm
Dr Zaius wrote: There has been no acknowledgement that they have done something remarkable, something that no other jurisdiction in the world has done, not once but twice.
That seems to be stretching thing a little? No other jurisdiction has contact traced and halted an outbreak?
We're talking a significant outbreak, several chains of community transmission, to a point of elimination, without a widespread and sustained lock down. Can you name one? Melbourne got back to elimination, after a lockdown. Wuhan, lockdown. Can you honestly think of anywhere that has had a proper outbreak and got down to zero numbers without lockdown?
Did Victoria lockdown within the state when it branched from Sydney? Or close the border and contact trace?

New Zealand locked down again when they had that breakout didn’t they...

No, from a quick look you may be right. Doesn’t seem to be anywhere yelling it from the rooftops...
Melbourne didn't lockdown with the December cluster. But it was a single cluster occurring from one restaurant.

NZ locked down again.

I honestly can't think of a single other place
Even if there is a another one or two, they are few and far between.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Seiffert82 »

All I have gathered over the past 12 months is that politicians all over the world, across the entire political spectrum, have regularly played politics over adhering to sound medical advice when it comes to this stuff.

I totally get the economics vs public health debate. That's one thing. It's the nonsense around pointing fingers and making blatantly bad decisions to get re-elected that does my head in.

And the Federal government here will now do exactly the same thing by calling an early election while dealing with the pandemic.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by papabear »

Dr Zaius wrote: February 4, 2021, 7:30 pm
papabear wrote: February 4, 2021, 3:18 pmBorder closures, everyone bar NSW seems to be making it a very political issue, imo the rest of the country takes NSW very much for granted.
Nailed it papabear

I'd give Victoria some leeway. They stopped taking returnees when they went to lockdown, which is only sensible.

Its a reasonable point gangrenous makes about not being not too fussed about the smaller states not pulling their weight, as long as they contribute financially. Problem is that they are not, and there doesn't appear to be a lot of gratitude. In fact, you have knobs like the WA premier throwing hand grenades from the peanut gallery.

The numbers for NSW speak for themselves. Most tests of any state, although lower than Victoria on a per capita basis. Taken 50% of returnees. Shut down multiple large clusters without lockdown. Are the only major capital not to lockdown citywide since the initial lockdown. Apart from the Victorian border (Which was obviously needed and a bit too late), the only state or territory not to close its border.

I know doubt that I come across as a parochial NSW supporter. I'm overcompensating in support for them due to the constant unwarranted criticism they cop in social media. The reality is that they have done a phenomenal job, have done the heavy lifting for this country, and instead of gratitude get derided. When the Adelaide outbreak occurred I told everyone that would listen that there would be more to come. When the Northern Beaches outbreak occurred, people (not necessarily in this thread) were very vocal about labelling NSW incompetent. My reply was that quarantine was difficult, there would be more leaks to come, and given that NSW is doing the most quarantining, they were the highest risk. I was shouted down. Since then Brisbane, Perth and now Melbourne have had leaks. There is little labelling of those jurisdictions as incompetent by those same people. No those people, disappointed by their zero case numbers, are scratching around for other things to deride NSW by. You know that someone is scratching around if they drag out the Ruby Princess from March, or call out a State Premier for not putting a Federal backbencher in their place. Its not a stretch to think that those people are seeing through an impartial lens.
Victoria is an interesting one.

They did stop taking people in when there outbreak went massive but realistically Sydney / nsw has had outbreaks and just keeps on ticking along..

Realistically, whilst they have a better excuse, then other states but realistically it is still an excuse!!
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Northern Raider »

Some very different reactions to similar scenarios recently with an infected quarantine worker in the community for several days. WA immediate 5 day lockdown and declared a hot zone. VIC bring in some restrictions and go for contract tracing and selective isolation. More like what NSW have done.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Dr Zaius »

Northern Raider wrote:Some very different reactions to similar scenarios recently with an infected quarantine worker in the community for several days. WA immediate 5 day lockdown and declared a hot zone. VIC bring in some restrictions and go for contract tracing and selective isolation. More like what NSW have done.
There really is no benefit in a 5 day lockdown apart from getting on top of contact tracing. When the lockdown is lifted, the second generation of people exposed may still be presymptomatic. If you have confidence in your contact tracing to quickly identify test and isolate close contacts, and then contact trace any of those that are positive, then you are not adding any significant benefit other than political grandstanding.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Northern Raider »

Dr Zaius wrote: February 5, 2021, 8:52 am
Northern Raider wrote:Some very different reactions to similar scenarios recently with an infected quarantine worker in the community for several days. WA immediate 5 day lockdown and declared a hot zone. VIC bring in some restrictions and go for contract tracing and selective isolation. More like what NSW have done.
There really is no benefit in a 5 day lockdown apart from getting on top of contact tracing. When the lockdown is lifted, the second generation of people exposed may still be presymptomatic. If you have confidence in your contact tracing to quickly identify test and isolate close contacts, and then contact trace any of those that are positive, then you are not adding any significant benefit other than political grandstanding.
That was my thinking and is a logical conclusion. Same with the recent 3 day lockdown in QLD. What gets me is these decisions are supposed to be made by the top level health officials. Our leaders claim their decisions are based on those recommendations but you cannot help but think the health officials decisions are being heavily influenced by the politicians.
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