Coronavirus

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Northern Raider
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Northern Raider »

Seiffert82 wrote: April 6, 2020, 12:37 am Australian data just updated. 34 deaths and 2315 recoveries, with a mortality rate for closed cases of 1.4% - right in line with expert predictions about a month ago.

That indicates the vast majority of other countries have absolutely no idea how many infected people they actually have out there.
I notice that figure this morning. It hadn't really moved much but with a large number of cases several weeks old I expected a significant change. Its not that 2000 people suddenly got better. They just hadn't reported those outcomes yet.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Botman »

Seiffert82 wrote: April 6, 2020, 12:37 am Australian data just updated. 34 deaths and 2315 recoveries, with a mortality rate for closed cases of 1.4% - right in line with expert predictions about a month ago.

That indicates the vast majority of other countries have absolutely no idea how many infected people they actually have out there.
I dont think it is just that.
Certainly at the end of all of this and years later when they've conducted their studies etc, they'll almost certainly conclude the number of people who contracted this will be balloon. There is undoubtedly a TON of people who got it and were either not tested because they didnt meet criteria or they were asymptomatic. So the CFR is going to, in all likelihood settle lower than it is now.

The other part of it though is in places like Italy where death rates are exceptionally high, its that the health system has crashed and failed that is contributing heavily to the the deaths. In the wash of this i think they'll find that a lot of these deaths would have been preventable if they had the beds/equipment/staff to adequately treat those that need it

But right now there is some war time level decisions being made on who to save and who dies. Which is why everyone is doing this quarantine stuff, a country like ours is going to be able to save a HUGE % of the people who this might kill, but to do that we need to make sure the beds,staff and equipment is available for them
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by gangrenous »

papabear wrote:
gangrenous wrote: April 5, 2020, 12:34 pm
papabear wrote: Family member had symptoms and got tested straight away about two weeks ago, came back negative.

Way to much conspiracy theory about testing
Thank you mr anecdotal evidence.

It’s not a conspiracy theory. There were clearly people with respiratory symptoms who weren’t being tested because they didn’t meet the guidelines. I think in most, if not all, cases if the doctors truly thought it was Corona and not cold/flu they were getting access to testing.

But if you think the public cares about that while they’re concerned over their cough and you’re doling out thousands of tests for a football game... well botman swampland etc.
LOL you are so sensitive.

In one post we are not testing people and short of tests... ten posts later we have a good handle on it.

You keep doing you!!
Nope. Keep up your home schooling and then try reading it again.
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Re: Coronavirus

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Seiffert82 »

Botman wrote: April 6, 2020, 12:09 pm
Seiffert82 wrote: April 6, 2020, 12:37 am Australian data just updated. 34 deaths and 2315 recoveries, with a mortality rate for closed cases of 1.4% - right in line with expert predictions about a month ago.

That indicates the vast majority of other countries have absolutely no idea how many infected people they actually have out there.
I dont think it is just that.
Certainly at the end of all of this and years later when they've conducted their studies etc, they'll almost certainly conclude the number of people who contracted this will be balloon. There is undoubtedly a TON of people who got it and were either not tested because they didnt meet criteria or they were asymptomatic. So the CFR is going to, in all likelihood settle lower than it is now.

The other part of it though is in places like Italy where death rates are exceptionally high, its that the health system has crashed and failed that is contributing heavily to the the deaths. In the wash of this i think they'll find that a lot of these deaths would have been preventable if they had the beds/equipment/staff to adequately treat those that need it

But right now there is some war time level decisions being made on who to save and who dies. Which is why everyone is doing this quarantine stuff, a country like ours is going to be able to save a HUGE % of the people who this might kill, but to do that we need to make sure the beds,staff and equipment is available for them
That's the main point about using self isolation to flatten the curve. You don't necessarily wipe the virus out (hopefully we do), but at a bare minimum you reduce the spike in cases, which is the thing that obviously overwhelms the hospital system.

At this stage, the number of intensive care spaces taken with COVID patients is clearly well under the capacity of the hospital system. Not only that, but I'm quite sure this social distancing policy combined with closing down the pubs and clubs is likely to have reduced the normal volume of people who present at emergency departments who ultimately end up in intensive care - but that's just me guessing.

We were just lucky we didn't have the initial influx of infections that the likes of South Korea, Italy, France, Spain and Switzerland had. They got smashed hard and fast, and didn't get the same amount of time we did to piss-fart around and start testing and isolating people etc.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by -TW- »

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/06/opin ... ncing.html

Interesting view, I think that is something that may end up happening here later in the year.

Bouncing between stage 1 and 2, allowing bars etc to reopen with restrictions on patronage and then if the rates increase go back to full closedown.

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Seiffert82 »

Yep, this is the next big question for the authorities. It's one thing to say this will last for 6 months and then hope everyone locks themselves away until this disappears entirely, but the reality is that's not going to happen.

It's like 2-3 weeks in and people are already starting to ignore the directives - so an orderly plan to gradually resume some sort of normal life is vital for the general population to continue listening to the rules.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Botman »

Seiffert82 wrote: April 6, 2020, 10:54 pm Not only that, but I'm quite sure this social distancing policy combined with closing down the pubs and clubs is likely to have reduced the normal volume of people who present at emergency departments who ultimately end up in intensive care - but that's just me guessing.
I was just talking to my wife about this last night
I'd be fascinated to see the figures that come out of this in terms of ED admissions... no one is allowed out to play in parks, kids arent playing weekend sports, pubs and clubs are closed down... i would bet general ED admissions have dropped significantly.

There is a bunch of dudes not getting into drunken fights and a bunch of kids not breaking bones right now
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Northern Raider »

Botman wrote: April 7, 2020, 8:20 am
Seiffert82 wrote: April 6, 2020, 10:54 pm Not only that, but I'm quite sure this social distancing policy combined with closing down the pubs and clubs is likely to have reduced the normal volume of people who present at emergency departments who ultimately end up in intensive care - but that's just me guessing.
I was just talking to my wife about this last night
I'd be fascinated to see the figures that come out of this in terms of ED admissions... no one is allowed out to play in parks, kids arent playing weekend sports, pubs and clubs are closed down... i would bet general ED admissions have dropped significantly.

There is a bunch of dudes not getting into drunken fights and a bunch of kids not breaking bones right now
Its the immediate result of a society wrapped in cotton wool. Later on we'll see a surge in heart attacks because everybody has been sitting at home watching Netflix and getting fat.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Botman »

Northern Raider wrote: April 7, 2020, 8:31 am
Botman wrote: April 7, 2020, 8:20 am
Seiffert82 wrote: April 6, 2020, 10:54 pm Not only that, but I'm quite sure this social distancing policy combined with closing down the pubs and clubs is likely to have reduced the normal volume of people who present at emergency departments who ultimately end up in intensive care - but that's just me guessing.
I was just talking to my wife about this last night
I'd be fascinated to see the figures that come out of this in terms of ED admissions... no one is allowed out to play in parks, kids arent playing weekend sports, pubs and clubs are closed down... i would bet general ED admissions have dropped significantly.

There is a bunch of dudes not getting into drunken fights and a bunch of kids not breaking bones right now
Its the immediate result of a society wrapped in cotton wool. Later on we'll see a surge in heart attacks because everybody has been sitting at home watching Netflix and getting fat.
In that chat with my wife last night i said to her that first weekend after this is over and the pubs and clubs are open might be one of the wildest nights we've seen...

It's going to be a horde of 18-30 year olds off the chain... like think about all those people who have hit 18 in iso? those groups will be going off... think about those dudes who just love to get **** faced and start a fight? They're gonna need to find their outlet... and with so many horny young people deprived of their ability to get laid... ****, everyones gonna be **** that weekend. :roflmao

Not me though, ill be safely tucked in a home, hopefully watching the footy
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by yeh raiders »

^^
Haha I was talking about that with a mate the other day. I wasn’t legal age New Years Eve 1999... but it could be like that... on steroids... and you can bet I’ll be there
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by gerg »

Botman wrote:
Northern Raider wrote: April 7, 2020, 8:31 am
Botman wrote: April 7, 2020, 8:20 am
Seiffert82 wrote: April 6, 2020, 10:54 pm Not only that, but I'm quite sure this social distancing policy combined with closing down the pubs and clubs is likely to have reduced the normal volume of people who present at emergency departments who ultimately end up in intensive care - but that's just me guessing.
I was just talking to my wife about this last night
I'd be fascinated to see the figures that come out of this in terms of ED admissions... no one is allowed out to play in parks, kids arent playing weekend sports, pubs and clubs are closed down... i would bet general ED admissions have dropped significantly.

There is a bunch of dudes not getting into drunken fights and a bunch of kids not breaking bones right now
Its the immediate result of a society wrapped in cotton wool. Later on we'll see a surge in heart attacks because everybody has been sitting at home watching Netflix and getting fat.
In that chat with my wife last night i said to her that first weekend after this is over and the pubs and clubs are open might be one of the wildest nights we've seen...

It's going to be a horde of 18-30 year olds off the chain... like think about all those people who have hit 18 in iso? those groups will be going off... think about those dudes who just love to get **** faced and start a fight? They're gonna need to find their outlet... and with so many horny young people deprived of their ability to get laid... ****, everyones gonna be **** that weekend. :roflmao

Not me though, ill be safely tucked in a home, hopefully watching the footy
Haha, like a Mad Monday for the general population.

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by -TW- »

yeh raiders wrote:^^
Haha I was talking about that with a mate the other day. I wasn’t legal age New Years Eve 1999... but it could be like that... on steroids... and you can bet I’ll be there
Moose heads here will be off the charts.. oh boy

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by yeh raiders »

-TW- wrote: April 7, 2020, 11:18 am
yeh raiders wrote:^^
Haha I was talking about that with a mate the other day. I wasn’t legal age New Years Eve 1999... but it could be like that... on steroids... and you can bet I’ll be there
Moose heads here will be off the charts.. oh boy

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I’m based in Sydney... but I’ve got a good mate who lives there and I’ve heard stories.

Also just realised, depending how long this vaccine takes, I might be outside Botman’s prescribed age bracket. Worrying times indeed! Worse comes to worse, it’ll be the first time I’ll agree with the lefty bs of identifying as something you’re scientifically, categorically and obviously not... I’ll identify as a 25 year old again. Problem solved.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by -TW- »

yeh raiders wrote:
-TW- wrote: April 7, 2020, 11:18 am
yeh raiders wrote:^^
Haha I was talking about that with a mate the other day. I wasn’t legal age New Years Eve 1999... but it could be like that... on steroids... and you can bet I’ll be there
Moose heads here will be off the charts.. oh boy

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I’m based in Sydney... but I’ve got a good mate who lives there and I’ve heard stories.

Also just realised, depending how long this vaccine takes, I might be outside Botman’s prescribed age bracket. Worrying times indeed! Worse comes to worse, it’ll be the first time I’ll agree with the lefty bs of identifying as something you’re scientifically, categorically and obviously not... I’ll identify as a 25 year old again. Problem solved.
Northies or Coogee Bay hotel in your case then

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Seiffert82 »

There is no doubt that the first weekend out will be loose as. :lol:
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Seiffert82 »

Botman wrote: April 7, 2020, 8:20 am
Seiffert82 wrote: April 6, 2020, 10:54 pm Not only that, but I'm quite sure this social distancing policy combined with closing down the pubs and clubs is likely to have reduced the normal volume of people who present at emergency departments who ultimately end up in intensive care - but that's just me guessing.
I was just talking to my wife about this last night
I'd be fascinated to see the figures that come out of this in terms of ED admissions... no one is allowed out to play in parks, kids arent playing weekend sports, pubs and clubs are closed down... i would bet general ED admissions have dropped significantly.

There is a bunch of dudes not getting into drunken fights and a bunch of kids not breaking bones right now
Yeah, I find it quite interesting to be honest. There's going to be a whole lot of innovation, political and economic reform and other positives that could come out of this. There's a whole bunch of negatives too, as certain industries struggle to recover and individuals deal with a variety of financial and mental health issues.

We are just fortunate to be in Australia in times like these. I don't think too many countries will emerge out of this in the same position we are likely to.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by FuiFui BradBrad »

Botman wrote:
Seiffert82 wrote: April 6, 2020, 10:54 pm Not only that, but I'm quite sure this social distancing policy combined with closing down the pubs and clubs is likely to have reduced the normal volume of people who present at emergency departments who ultimately end up in intensive care - but that's just me guessing.
I was just talking to my wife about this last night
I'd be fascinated to see the figures that come out of this in terms of ED admissions... no one is allowed out to play in parks, kids arent playing weekend sports, pubs and clubs are closed down... i would bet general ED admissions have dropped significantly.

There is a bunch of dudes not getting into drunken fights and a bunch of kids not breaking bones right now
It would be interesting to see the numbers. One hand, all those admissions are down, other hand, volume of people being hospitalised for Rona
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Northern Raider »

Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: April 7, 2020, 1:09 pm
Botman wrote:
Seiffert82 wrote: April 6, 2020, 10:54 pm Not only that, but I'm quite sure this social distancing policy combined with closing down the pubs and clubs is likely to have reduced the normal volume of people who present at emergency departments who ultimately end up in intensive care - but that's just me guessing.
I was just talking to my wife about this last night
I'd be fascinated to see the figures that come out of this in terms of ED admissions... no one is allowed out to play in parks, kids arent playing weekend sports, pubs and clubs are closed down... i would bet general ED admissions have dropped significantly.

There is a bunch of dudes not getting into drunken fights and a bunch of kids not breaking bones right now
It would be interesting to see the numbers. One hand, all those admissions are down, other hand, volume of people being hospitalised for Rona
96 cases listed as serious. Assume those are the ones hospitalised.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Seiffert82 »

Northern Raider wrote: April 7, 2020, 1:46 pm
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: April 7, 2020, 1:09 pm
Botman wrote:
Seiffert82 wrote: April 6, 2020, 10:54 pm Not only that, but I'm quite sure this social distancing policy combined with closing down the pubs and clubs is likely to have reduced the normal volume of people who present at emergency departments who ultimately end up in intensive care - but that's just me guessing.
I was just talking to my wife about this last night
I'd be fascinated to see the figures that come out of this in terms of ED admissions... no one is allowed out to play in parks, kids arent playing weekend sports, pubs and clubs are closed down... i would bet general ED admissions have dropped significantly.

There is a bunch of dudes not getting into drunken fights and a bunch of kids not breaking bones right now
It would be interesting to see the numbers. One hand, all those admissions are down, other hand, volume of people being hospitalised for Rona
96 cases listed as serious. Assume those are the ones hospitalised.
Compare that to the flu, which on average each year causes approx 13,000 hospitalisations (in 2017 there were around 29,000 hospitalisations due to the flu). During winter there would normally be 500-1000 people each week in hospital with the flu.

I'm not comparing the flu with this virus, but I suspect the spread of the flu will be minimal as a result of this isolation policy, so that's hundreds of less cases each week they have to deal with, for that virus alone.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Dr Zaius »

Botman wrote:
Northern Raider wrote: April 7, 2020, 8:31 am
Botman wrote: April 7, 2020, 8:20 am
Seiffert82 wrote: April 6, 2020, 10:54 pm Not only that, but I'm quite sure this social distancing policy combined with closing down the pubs and clubs is likely to have reduced the normal volume of people who present at emergency departments who ultimately end up in intensive care - but that's just me guessing.
I was just talking to my wife about this last night
I'd be fascinated to see the figures that come out of this in terms of ED admissions... no one is allowed out to play in parks, kids arent playing weekend sports, pubs and clubs are closed down... i would bet general ED admissions have dropped significantly.

There is a bunch of dudes not getting into drunken fights and a bunch of kids not breaking bones right now
Its the immediate result of a society wrapped in cotton wool. Later on we'll see a surge in heart attacks because everybody has been sitting at home watching Netflix and getting fat.
In that chat with my wife last night i said to her that first weekend after this is over and the pubs and clubs are open might be one of the wildest nights we've seen...

It's going to be a horde of 18-30 year olds off the chain... like think about all those people who have hit 18 in iso? those groups will be going off... think about those dudes who just love to get **** faced and start a fight? They're gonna need to find their outlet... and with so many horny young people deprived of their ability to get laid... ****, everyones gonna be **** that weekend. :roflmao

Not me though, ill be safely tucked in a home, hopefully watching the footy
The local ED has been quiet, very quiet. Probably multiple factors.

People not getting injured, less other infectious diseases being passed around (flu etc) because of social distancing, but of concern people are not presenting for things they would usually present with. It's like the lead up to Christmas. People put it off, put it off, put it off. Then bam, boxing day is the highest acuity day of the year
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Seiffert82 »

No reason for people to go to the ED to get a Drs certificate for a day off work I guess.

I suspect the vast majority is because people are not injuring themselves or actually getting sick.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by RedRaider »

Dr Zaius wrote: April 5, 2020, 8:15 pm
Seiffert82 wrote:The case fatality rate seems to be rather useless while the pandemic is underway, other than to compare different populations.

As you suggest, all it indicates is that some countries have a more realistic handle on how many infections there are (assuming the virus is the same strain worldwide).

The real mortality rate would only ever be known if we find out how many people actually caught the virus...and if all virus-related deaths are actually attributed to the virus.
On the contrary, if you know what the Crude Mortality Rate is, the Case Fatality Rate is very useful in indicating who is on top of it and who is not.

Italy have 15,362 deaths. If the CMR is 3%, they should have 512,066 cases. They have identified 124,000 and are missing nearly 400,000 cases.

Indonesia have 198 deaths and 2273 confirmed cases. They should have 6600 cases. They are missing about 4400 cases.

The countries with the low CFR, like us, are doing well in identifying disease in their community. Countries like Italy and Indonesia with a high CFR are in for a bad time. CFR is a great eyeball test.
When all of this is being studied in the future I will be interested in learning why the Case Fatality Rate is so varied between countries. Is it the standard of care, high quality medical staff and treatment is far better/different in Australia than say in northern Italy? Is it because the virus hit Australia in summer and 'winter diseases' such as cold and flu were much less prevalent? Were the isolation and social distancing policies introduced (and adopted by the public) much sooner to reduce the spread to susceptible populations (eg older folk)? Is it possible the virus had already begun to mutate and a slightly different strain hit Italy/Spain? Can you make a few phone calls over the Easter long weekend Dr Z :D ?
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Coronavirus

Post by gangrenous »

Don’t forget testing rate. That’s a big factor.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Seiffert82 »

Yeah, it's almost certainly about the lack of widespread testing and picking up the actual number of infections (given the hundreds of thousands of cases around the world that have almost certainly not been positively identified). Combined with the hospital system in some countries being absolutely overwhelmed and unable to treat critically ill patients.

It's not like different countries are dealing with different strains of the virus.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Northern Raider »

Seiffert82 wrote: April 8, 2020, 10:09 am Yeah, it's almost certainly about the lack of widespread testing and picking up the actual number of infections (given the hundreds of thousands of cases around the world that have almost certainly not been positively identified). Combined with the hospital system in some countries being absolutely overwhelmed and unable to treat critically ill patients.

It's not like different countries are dealing with different strains of the virus.
So many mitigating circumstances on a country by country basis it's very hard to draw reasonable comparisons for the mortality rate. Capacity of the health system would be the biggest differentiator though. I'd say there's a tipping point where you go beyond resonable capacity and its rapid downward spiral from there. Italy hit obviously that point early whereas somewhere like Germany was able to stay ahead of it. These are 2 of the more extreme examples in neighbouring countries.

Time is critical as the longer you can hold on the more time you have to prepare facilities to cope with increased numbers.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by papabear »

gangrenous wrote: April 6, 2020, 1:10 pm
papabear wrote:
gangrenous wrote: April 5, 2020, 12:34 pm
papabear wrote: Family member had symptoms and got tested straight away about two weeks ago, came back negative.

Way to much conspiracy theory about testing
Thank you mr anecdotal evidence.

It’s not a conspiracy theory. There were clearly people with respiratory symptoms who weren’t being tested because they didn’t meet the guidelines. I think in most, if not all, cases if the doctors truly thought it was Corona and not cold/flu they were getting access to testing.

But if you think the public cares about that while they’re concerned over their cough and you’re doling out thousands of tests for a football game... well botman swampland etc.
LOL you are so sensitive.

In one post we are not testing people and short of tests... ten posts later we have a good handle on it.

You keep doing you!!
Nope. Keep up your home schooling and then try reading it again.
:) thanks for the tip, but no amount of homeschooling could inspire me to read your posts more then I have to chief.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Seiffert82 »

Northern Raider wrote: April 8, 2020, 11:07 am
Seiffert82 wrote: April 8, 2020, 10:09 am Yeah, it's almost certainly about the lack of widespread testing and picking up the actual number of infections (given the hundreds of thousands of cases around the world that have almost certainly not been positively identified). Combined with the hospital system in some countries being absolutely overwhelmed and unable to treat critically ill patients.

It's not like different countries are dealing with different strains of the virus.
So many mitigating circumstances on a country by country basis it's very hard to draw reasonable comparisons for the mortality rate. Capacity of the health system would be the biggest differentiator though. I'd say there's a tipping point where you go beyond resonable capacity and its rapid downward spiral from there. Italy hit obviously that point early whereas somewhere like Germany was able to stay ahead of it. These are 2 of the more extreme examples in neighbouring countries.

Time is critical as the longer you can hold on the more time you have to prepare facilities to cope with increased numbers.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Northern Raider »

Seiffert82 wrote: April 8, 2020, 5:01 pm
Northern Raider wrote: April 8, 2020, 11:07 am
Seiffert82 wrote: April 8, 2020, 10:09 am Yeah, it's almost certainly about the lack of widespread testing and picking up the actual number of infections (given the hundreds of thousands of cases around the world that have almost certainly not been positively identified). Combined with the hospital system in some countries being absolutely overwhelmed and unable to treat critically ill patients.

It's not like different countries are dealing with different strains of the virus.
So many mitigating circumstances on a country by country basis it's very hard to draw reasonable comparisons for the mortality rate. Capacity of the health system would be the biggest differentiator though. I'd say there's a tipping point where you go beyond resonable capacity and its rapid downward spiral from there. Italy hit obviously that point early whereas somewhere like Germany was able to stay ahead of it. These are 2 of the more extreme examples in neighbouring countries.

Time is critical as the longer you can hold on the more time you have to prepare facilities to cope with increased numbers.
Flattening the curve NR! The catchphrase of 2020.
Some competition there. I reckon the word "Exponential" has been used more times in the last 2 months than it has in the previous 5 years.
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gerg
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Re: Coronavirus

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I've been crook for a few weeks so definitely need some exercise to flatten the curve.

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Re: Coronavirus

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Haha, yeah my middle is definitely growing at an exponential rate.

Can't go to the gym. Get stressed. Eat chocolate and drink beers. Terrible.
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Re: Coronavirus

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Seiffert82 wrote:Haha, yeah my middle is definitely growing at an exponential rate.

Can't go to the gym. Get stressed. Eat chocolate and drink beers. Terrible.
I'm smashing Tim Tam's like they're the only food on earth atm.. not good

First few weeks back at the gym are gonna be a tough slogb

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Re: Coronavirus

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Seiffert82 wrote:No reason for people to go to the ED to get a Drs certificate for a day off work I guess.

I suspect the vast majority is because people are not injuring themselves or actually getting sick.
You're basing that on what. I can tell you for a fact people that should be seeking healthcare aren't.
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Seiffert82
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Re: Coronavirus

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Dr Zaius wrote: April 8, 2020, 8:18 pm
Seiffert82 wrote:No reason for people to go to the ED to get a Drs certificate for a day off work I guess.

I suspect the vast majority is because people are not injuring themselves or actually getting sick.
You're basing that on what. I can tell you for a fact people that should be seeking healthcare aren't.
Well that's a bit stupid of them isn't it. If people have a genuine emergency illness and they don't go to the ED for fear of getting coronavirus, then more fool them. Bit of a turnaround from the stupid people who go to the ED to get treatment for things that aren't emergencies.

Fact is, stupid people do stupid things, like buy stupid amounts of toilet paper and pasta sauce.

What's happening with GP's is a slightly different matter.
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Re: Coronavirus

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I think that's a side affect of the "current affair" way it was reported in the media to begin with.

It would be an unmitigated health disaster we couldn't contain etc etc, so people have stayed away thinking dr's would be overloaded with corona patients.

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