Coronavirus

[Mickey_Raider]

‘Millions of doses’: Pfizer approached Australia first for vaccine deal: https://amp.smh.com.au/politics/federal ... ssion=true

What we already knew, Pfizer approached the government mid last year, was turned down by Greg Hunt

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

No doubt Hunt and Morrison will just "reject the premise" of that evidence and hunker down until the news cycle moves on.

[Coastalraider]

‘Millions of doses’: Pfizer approached Australia first for vaccine deal: https://amp.smh.com.au/politics/federal ... ssion=true

What we already knew, Pfizer approached the government mid last year, was turned down by Greg Hunt

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

Now Im not defending the Feds, really im not as they have totally ballsed up this rollout, but I can see SOME sense in thinking they dont need the volume of Phizer that they ended up needing. They chose to invest in a linger term option that was made in Aus with no side effects. Now we obviously know that clotting became an issue later once AZ was widely used, and obviously again our timeline now looks horrific due to Delta, but in July last year AZ Looked like a fair option to mass produce at home.

[Dr Zaius]

More BS politics by the premiers. All flapping that NSW stole their Pfizer. NSW received an extra 580k Pfizer doses. NSW has delivered nearly 2.5 million more doses that the next nearest state, Victoria. We may need to get Nickman in to do the sums but by from my estimate, the extra Pfizer doesn't near cover the discrepancy there. NSW are well in front because people have gone out and got AZ. AZ is in abundance - if the premiers want more they should just ask for it.

So you're saying NSW got extra Pfizer compared to other states?
And then you make some other link to AZ. Are other states flapping about a lack of AZ?

They are basically saying that NSW has a higher rate of vaccination because they have been favoured for more vaccines (implication Pfizer). As with all of these things there is an element of truth that they exploit for political gain. The additional Pfizer that NSW has recieved accounts for a fraction of the discrepancies between NSW and the other states. NSW is well in front because their CHO and Premier encouraged people to go and get AZ, and given the bloody big outbreak, people obliged. There is no shortage of AZ.

They aren't "basically saying" that at all. They are unhappy with the unequal distribution of Pfizer - which is to my knowledge an undisputed fact - irrespective of how many extra AZ jabs NSW has put in arms.

You are right, they are not "basically saying", they are literally saying. My apologies.

"Mr McGowan maintained WA could not be criticised for not vaccinating at the same rate as NSW when it did not have the same number of vaccines per capita."

"We understand that, when a state is going through a particular troublesome time, yes more vaccines should be allocated. But don’t go then and blame Queensland and Western Australia for getting out the vaccine that we have available," Ms Palaszczuk said.

The premiers are saying that they have fallen behind because they have not received enough vaccines, that NSW has been favoured. Yes it is an undisputed fact that NSW got more Pfizer, but that does not nearly account for the short fall. Its political spin.

"The ABC’s 7.30 reported on Monday that NSW’s share of doses delivered through primary care went from 32 per cent of the nation’s total allocation of Pfizer in June to 45 per cent in August.

As of Monday, NSW had given about 7.517 million vaccinations in total, compared to Victoria’s 5.366 million. However, the federal government does not regularly publish data on the breakdown between Pfizer and AstraZeneca shots.

NSW had 150,000 of its allocated Pfizer doses brought forward in July, to battle its current outbreak. Additionally, 530,000 of the million extra Pfizer doses sourced from Poland in August went to south-west Sydney suburbs where there are raging COVID outbreaks. Both allocations were reported extensively at the time.

ABC data analyst Casey Briggs, citing federal government data, reported NSW had been given 3.4 million Pfizer doses as of August 29 – not much more than its proportional share.

“That’s about 420,000 more doses than if the Pfizer doses were shared out on a per capita basis. That’s about what we’d expect from the known allocation of Polish Pfizer, and the earlier pull forward in NSW,” he tweeted."

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2021/09 ... fizer-nsw/

[Schifty]

https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default ... tion_1.pdf

Anyone know if there is a more recent update to this report?

I was looking into this the other day. The administration and utilisation data was included at the end of the weekly vaccination rollout updates up to 23 August, and now appears to be reported every Monday in the daily updates.

Latest one here: https://www.health.gov.au/sites/defaul ... r-2021.pdf

All reports here: https://www.health.gov.au/resources/co ... ut-updates

Cheers for this

I think this is very important in context of some of those graphs that appear to show QLD and WA "Lagging" behind.

But this shows that they are vaccinating as much as possible.

Anyway the biggest problem with the rollout has been our **** leader knocking back vaccines saying it wasn't a race and has now resorted to posting "DM me if you have any pfizer" statuses on facebook.

[Dr Zaius]

https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default ... tion_1.pdf

Anyone know if there is a more recent update to this report?

I was looking into this the other day. The administration and utilisation data was included at the end of the weekly vaccination rollout updates up to 23 August, and now appears to be reported every Monday in the daily updates.

Latest one here: https://www.health.gov.au/sites/defaul ... r-2021.pdf

All reports here: https://www.health.gov.au/resources/co ... ut-updates

Cheers for this

I think this is very important in context of some of those graphs that appear to show QLD and WA "Lagging" behind.

But this shows that they are vaccinating as much as possible.

Anyway the biggest problem with the rollout has been our **** leader knocking back vaccines saying it wasn't a race and has now resorted to posting "DM me if you have any pfizer" statuses on facebook.

Maybe. Not sure that tells the whole story.

"Mr Hunt noted, however, that Queensland had not taken as many AstraZeneca doses as it could have.

“I would point out that with regards to Queensland, that their 78 per cent ordering of their state entitlement is the lowest of any state and territory. In particular, they have a 37 per cent order rate of AstraZeneca,” Mr Hunt said."

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal ... 58pnr.html

So utilised what they were supplied, but not requested what they were entitled to. My understanding is that we have excesses of AZ, it's certainly not in short demand. If they wanted more they could have more. But they aren't using AZ. Their CHO specifically went on air and said not to get it, wait for Pfizer. Which is fine, they are covid free, and there is a stack coming. But don't pretend that you are lagging behind because NSW stole your Pfizer.

[Schifty]

Maybe in the cities. I know people in regional QLD who want AZ but they can't find an appointment.

Anyway I think it will be interesting to see where we are in a few months as we should hit the ceiling in terms of first doses. ACT is confidence of getting well over 90% across all ages groups.

[Postman Pat]

Surely no one is arguing that NSW has been given a massive leg up with the Pfizer vaccines.

[Coastalraider]

Of course they have, they were rushed quantities of their allocation early (not extras) at the start of this outbreak, and the deal with additional from Poland had a large percentage sent directly to Sydney which was not in the preallocation.

But I can’t understand why this is an issue? It’s essentially a health disaster, and in disaster response resources are diverted where they are required most.

In a bushfire season, resources and manpower are diverted to other states every year to help with emergency response. Imagine if premiers started winging about that?

[Dr Zaius]

Maybe in the cities. I know people in regional QLD who want AZ but they can't find an appointment.

Anyway I think it will be interesting to see where we are in a few months as we should hit the ceiling in terms of first doses. ACT is confidence of getting well over 90% across all ages groups.

I'll one up you on anecdotes. My friend works at a vaccination hub (QLD). Prior to the last lockdown people could just walk in and get a jab, so was the low demand. When the lockdown was announced, they were lining up demanding a vaccine. Currently there is high demand - for Pfizer. People can't get an appointment - for Pfizer. No such problems for AZ

People in Queensland are hanging out for Pfizer while AZ is available. They are doing what the CHO told them to do. Which is fine, there is no covid for now, and Pfizer is coming. People in Sydney were understanbly motivated to get AZ and did it in droves. All good. But people shouldn't pretend that NSW has delivered 2.2 million more doses than Victoria, 4 million more doses than Queensland and 5.8 million more doses than WA because they received an extra 580k Pfizer.

[greeneyed]

Not just the Queensland Chief Health Officer though. ATAGI told the whole Australian population that the recommended vaccine for younger people was Pfizer… in a situation where COVID was not active in the community. The messaging got massaged when the federal government realised that meant they’d have a mass of AZ being produced in Australia that would not be utilised… and a huge shortage of the safer vaccine. Then once we had an outbreak the ATAGI advice became… if you’re in an outbreak situation, the relative risks change, take whatever you can get.

https://www.health.gov.au/committees-an ... statements

The actual source of the problem we face goes back to the federal government’s vaccination program, deciding on “industry policy” grounds which vaccine “to go with”, and the decision not to properly diversify the supply of vaccine.

[Coastalraider]

It does ge, we are all agreed in that.

The issue that will happen now is regardless of how we got here (which will be dealt with at election time I really hope) we are now here. Nsw, act and to a slightly lesser extent vic have all taken up AZ in large quantities and will soon have a large % of population double vaxxed and ready to transition, at least within their own borders. All the other states are currently witnessing what happens when an outbreak occurs in a low vax population… there are lockdowns, restrictions, and they last until vax % is up to date.

Qld, SA, WA etc are in an enviable position of actually being able to get ahead of the game now. But due to lack of ‘immediate’ risk, they have a slow uptake and populations that are blasé about the risk of a single poorly timed quarantine/border breach leading to exactly the same outcome we are currently displaying to them. And they are opening themselves up to 1 outbreak meaning 2 months of lockdown while their vax numbers catch up.

I never want to wish I’ll on anyone, especially populations led down the garden path by poor leaders, but there would be some kind of sweet irony if the eastern states were relatively freely moving around for Christmas, while a quarantine breech in WA meant they spent 2 months in lockdown because their premier hadn’t pushed the necessity of pushing through vaccinations BEFORE the inevitable outbreak.

[greeneyed]

As far as I can see, though, ATAGI is still not telling people where there is no outbreak to “take whatever you can get now”. Because of the risks the AZ side effects. I might not be reading the messages correctly of course.

[Coastalraider]

As far as I can see, though, ATAGI is still not telling people where there is no outbreak to “take whatever you can get now”. Because of the risks the AZ side effects. I might not be reading the messages correctly of course.

Well, I guess its open to interpretation and how the premiers and CHOs are delivering that message. ATAGIs current message is that given the escalated risk NATIONALLY they have changed their recommendations based on dynamic risk assessment. They have also changed the second dose window due to geographical risk assessment. For example im getting second AZ on Friday escalated to 6 week window, people in sydney regularly getting it at 4 week interval due to a slightly higher risk that the central coast. Qld went so anti AZ early on that they really cant back away now.

I know people in SA for example that are simply saying they wont get the vaccine, not because of health reasons, or vax stance, but because they dont see covid as a real life risk. They are of the assumption that they can just go in a 3 day lockdown whenever there is a case, and they will be fine, and not need to worry about vaccines. They said they would be swayed if there was vax rules for pubs and sport events, but there is no 'pre emptive' messaging getting through over there. I know family in WA who are devastated that we cant go over in December for their wedding, when we say, by December we will all be double vaxxed, the reason we cant go is because you guys over there aren't vaxxed yet, they dont actually see why they have any role to play. I really hope they can soon see that they have the opportunity to AVOID the lockdowns we are experiencing now, and they have been gifted a window. I know first hand the stresses involved, I have been stood down form work to part time, Im home schooling single handedly for the second time in 2 years, I havent had more than 70% of my wage coming in for 18 months, and our company is likely to go bust in the next 3 months. These other states can avoid this, but they are
complacent.

[greeneyed]

But what they’re mostly doing in non outbreak areas is consistent with what ATAGI is recommending as far as I can see.

I am very sorry to hear about your situation. I don't think there has been enough assistance for people and businesses who really need it in very difficult times.

[Coastalraider]

But what they’re mostly doing in non outbreak areas is consistent with what ATAGI is recommending as far as I can see.

I am very sorry to hear about your situation. I don't think there has been enough assistance for people and businesses who really need it in very difficult times.

Thanks he, there’s actually a really promising opportunity on the horizon.

My thought process on this is that as a country (or political machine) we saw what was happening with delta in other countries and didn’t act fast enough to prepare for the inevitability of delta landing in our shores. The feds have a HUGE amount to answer for in regards to this. But on a micro level, we are now making the same mistake again. There are currently 3 states in full lockdown setting the example of what happens when this beast hits the community, and other states are sitting by complacently not seeing the situation for what it is.

It’s completely logical for people like us in lockdown now to be critical of the feds delay in rushing through a vaccine in a suitable timeframe PRIOR to this issue, but most states (lesser extent Tas and NT) are setting themselves up for exactly the same situation.

[Schifty]

Victoria has administered nearly half the nation's AZ

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... ta-reveals

[Dr Zaius]

AstraZeneca surge revealed after NSW, Victoria urged jabs for young

A surge in demand for AstraZeneca vaccines pushed NSW ahead of others in delivering 4.5 million shots to GPs and primary care clinics over seven months, ensuring the state gained more doses than its share of the population.

But the AstraZeneca figures reflect demand rather than supply constraints because the federal government told states there was “uncapped ordering” for the vaccine thanks to strong supply from local manufacturer CSL.

Read more: https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal ... 58pwm.html

[Dr Zaius]

Not just the Queensland Chief Health Officer though. ATAGI told the whole Australian population that the recommended vaccine for younger people was Pfizer… in a situation where COVID was not active in the community. The messaging got massaged when the federal government realised that meant they’d have a mass of AZ being produced in Australia that would not be utilised… and a huge shortage of the safer vaccine. Then once we had an outbreak the ATAGI advice became… if you’re in an outbreak situation, the relative risks change, take whatever you can get.

https://www.health.gov.au/committees-an ... statements

The actual source of the problem we face goes back to the federal government’s vaccination program, deciding on “industry policy” grounds which vaccine “to go with”, and the decision not to properly diversify the supply of vaccine.

The Queensland CHO poisoned the AZ well in Queensland.

But I'm not disagreeing with you GE. The Feds have dropped the ball big time.

My point is that certain premiers are blaming NSW stealing their vaccines as the reason that they are falling behind. That is patently false. NSW promoted AZ and people lined up for it. That is why they have progressed rapidly. AZ is in surplus and supply is uncapped. Any state can ask for as much as they want.

It's more political spin, and specifically playing to the politics of division. It's appealing to the us versus them. It's cheap. It's nasty. It's to the betterment of their approval ratings and to the detriment of the nation. It's dividing us as a country. It needs to stop. Berejiiklian, Palaszczuk, McGowan and of late Andrews, let's not forget Scomo have all participated in it this pandemic. None of them have covered themselves in glory. Barr, Gunner and Marshall have been measured and shown class. The others could learn a thing or two from their lower profile colleagues.

[greeneyed]

I'm not disagreeing with you on the vast bulk of that either Dr Zaius.

[-PJ-]

Can someone tell what % we are at right now 2 jabs in NSW ?

70% double jab gets some freedoms, where are we sitting ?

[greeneyed]

Can someone tell what % we are at right now 2 jabs in NSW ?

70% double jab gets some freedoms, where are we sitting ?

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... ases-today

[Dr Zaius]

Can someone tell what % we are at right now 2 jabs in NSW ?

70% double jab gets some freedoms, where are we sitting ?

Good website
https://vaccineclock.tugzrida.xyz/

[-PJ-]

Thanks GE.

43.5% fully vaccinated.

[Schifty]

Yeah this is just slightly alarming if true...

[gangrenous]

Who needs information to make their decisions?

I bet ScoMo like the idea of being dice man.

[T_R]

Who needs information to make their decisions?

I bet ScoMo like the idea of being dice man.

Gut feel. You and your college-boy "modelling"

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

[Dr Zaius]

Yeah this is just slightly alarming if true...

Yeah that's a worry.

[Schifty]

Surely a porn store being listed as an exposure site is the most Canberra thing ever.

[gangrenous]

Who needs information to make their decisions?

I bet ScoMo like the idea of being dice man.

Gut feel. You and your college-boy "modelling"

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

[gangrenous]

Surely a porn store being listed as an exposure site is the most Canberra thing ever.

Only be one upped if the second exposure site was a fireworks store!

Imagine if BBQ man from Sydney were contemplating buying a porn store chain…

[Dr Zaius]

I was anticipating something like this at 80%, and must admit that my first reaction was that these restrictions were very generous at 70%. I thought that they'd dip their toe in with outdoors dining, loosening household restrictions and allowing travel outside of some LGAs.

They are expected to hit 80% 12 days after 70%, and if restrictions ease a week after 70%, they will be high 70s. They could equally be loosening restrictions a day after hitting 70% if they hit on a Sunday. The Monday rule seems very arbitrary.

Dan Andrews signalled loosening restrictions at 70% last week. It will be interesting to compare the roadmaps.

[Coastalraider]

I was anticipating something like this at 80%, and must admit that my first reaction was that these restrictions were very generous at 70%. I thought that they'd dip their toe in with outdoors dining, loosening household restrictions and allowing travel outside of some LGAs.

They are expected to hit 80% 12 days after 70%, and if restrictions ease a week after 70%, they will be high 70s. They could equally be loosening restrictions a day after hitting 70% if they hit on a Sunday. The Monday rule seems very arbitrary.

Dan Andrews signalled loosening restrictions at 70% last week. It will be interesting to compare the roadmaps.

I guess a point to remember is that with regional nsw lagging a bit in vaccination rates (understandably) that by the time the entire state is at 70%, higher risk areas such as Sydney and surrounds are more likely to be at 75%.

[cat]

https://covid19nsw.ethan.link/vaccines/by-postcode

Thats a great website to look at the vaccination rates per postcode ( and case numbers)

There are many country towns that have extremely high vaccination rates.

Also most postcodes in Greater Sydney are very high in vaccination rates

Interesting to see some of the lowest numbers are in inner Sydney and Wollongong

Gladys called out those areas yesterday which was brilliant to see

[Mickey_Raider]

More BS politics by the premiers. All flapping that NSW stole their Pfizer. NSW received an extra 580k Pfizer doses. NSW has delivered nearly 2.5 million more doses that the next nearest state, Victoria. We may need to get Nickman in to do the sums but by from my estimate, the extra Pfizer doesn't near cover the discrepancy there. NSW are well in front because people have gone out and got AZ. AZ is in abundance - if the premiers want more they should just ask for it.

So you're saying NSW got extra Pfizer compared to other states?
And then you make some other link to AZ. Are other states flapping about a lack of AZ?

They are basically saying that NSW has a higher rate of vaccination because they have been favoured for more vaccines (implication Pfizer). As with all of these things there is an element of truth that they exploit for political gain. The additional Pfizer that NSW has recieved accounts for a fraction of the discrepancies between NSW and the other states. NSW is well in front because their CHO and Premier encouraged people to go and get AZ, and given the bloody big outbreak, people obliged. There is no shortage of AZ.

They aren't "basically saying" that at all. They are unhappy with the unequal distribution of Pfizer - which is to my knowledge an undisputed fact - irrespective of how many extra AZ jabs NSW has put in arms.

You are right, they are not "basically saying", they are literally saying. My apologies.

"Mr McGowan maintained WA could not be criticised for not vaccinating at the same rate as NSW when it did not have the same number of vaccines per capita."

"We understand that, when a state is going through a particular troublesome time, yes more vaccines should be allocated. But don’t go then and blame Queensland and Western Australia for getting out the vaccine that we have available," Ms Palaszczuk said.

The premiers are saying that they have fallen behind because they have not received enough vaccines, that NSW has been favoured. Yes it is an undisputed fact that NSW got more Pfizer, but that does not nearly account for the short fall. Its political spin.

"The ABC’s 7.30 reported on Monday that NSW’s share of doses delivered through primary care went from 32 per cent of the nation’s total allocation of Pfizer in June to 45 per cent in August.

As of Monday, NSW had given about 7.517 million vaccinations in total, compared to Victoria’s 5.366 million. However, the federal government does not regularly publish data on the breakdown between Pfizer and AstraZeneca shots.

NSW had 150,000 of its allocated Pfizer doses brought forward in July, to battle its current outbreak. Additionally, 530,000 of the million extra Pfizer doses sourced from Poland in August went to south-west Sydney suburbs where there are raging COVID outbreaks. Both allocations were reported extensively at the time.

ABC data analyst Casey Briggs, citing federal government data, reported NSW had been given 3.4 million Pfizer doses as of August 29 – not much more than its proportional share.

“That’s about 420,000 more doses than if the Pfizer doses were shared out on a per capita basis. That’s about what we’d expect from the known allocation of Polish Pfizer, and the earlier pull forward in NSW,” he tweeted."

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2021/09 ... fizer-nsw/

I admit I didn't see the AP quote above before I commented.

Yes you are absolutely correct in that any comment implies that any shortfall between vax rates is solely caused by a Pfizer redistribution is obviously incorrect. Everyone should clearly be able to see that a massive uptake in AZ caused by a worsening outbreak is what has rocketed NSW ahead.

Do the above quotes do that? Maybe they imply it without literally stating that they would be equal with NSW in the absence of the redistribution.

Other comments I have seen seem to lie somewhere between a generalised frustration with supply to making the implicit point that it is a bit rich to be criticised for lagging behind when a decent part of the equation (not to say all) is to do with a vaccine redistribution.

It's more political spin, and specifically playing to the politics of division. It's appealing to the us versus them. It's cheap. It's nasty. It's to the betterment of their approval ratings and to the detriment of the nation. It's dividing us as a country. It needs to stop. Berejiiklian, Palaszczuk, McGowan and of late Andrews, let's not forget Scomo have all participated in it this pandemic. None of them have covered themselves in glory. Barr, Gunner and Marshall have been measured and shown class. The others could learn a thing or two from their lower profile colleagues.

And I am with you on this. Everyone is trying to get the last word in. In saying that I can understand any generalised frustrations with the feds if a Premier was to agree to a not insignificant redistribution of Pfizer to NSW, and then literally the next day they are getting slapped around by the feds for lagging behind. I think this frustration is perfectly valid - independent of whether the redistribution itself literally makes up the "shortfall".

[Mickey_Raider]

Also just read that NSW press conferences have now been cancelled.

Is this a wise move considering we are moving into what could be the peak of the crisis over the coming weeks and months?