Climate change

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The Nickman
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Re: Climate change

Post by The Nickman »

gergreg wrote: August 26, 2020, 3:39 pm We aren't contributing to emissions at all if we aren't selling our coal?

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Now you're being deliberately obtuse.
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greeneyed
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Re: Climate change

Post by greeneyed »

It would be very inefficient for Australia to simply decide not to sell our coal. The countries that use the coal, create the carbon emissions, not Australia. The efficient policy solution is to have international carbon emissions reduction targets, for every country, and market based systems to achieve the reductions. The world's energy requirements are such that coal use will continue, even with carbon emission reduction targets that adequately deal with climate change. And as pointed out, because Australia's coal is high quality, it is a better choice than low grade coal... and the market based systems for carbon emission reductions will mean that there is continued demand for Australian coal... the low grade coal prices out first.
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Re: Climate change

Post by papabear »

gergreg wrote: August 26, 2020, 3:39 pm We aren't contributing to emissions at all if we aren't selling our coal?

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I do not know if you are trolling right now.

The earth is made up of many countries. Global Warming / Climate Change whatever you want to call is a result of the cumulative effect of everything happening on the planet.

If we stop selling coal, indonesia or brazil will dig out some MORE dirty coal, which will do more damage then had we just continued digging out our clean coal.

To be abundantly clear, to reduce / fix / assist in climate change the entirety of the global population has to work together for the solution if one small country stops digging out clean coal resulting in another small country digging out more dirty coal, this equals worse climate change.

If your issue is with coal, the better argument is arguing for cleaner power sources both here and more importantly abroad. But whilst people are operating coal power stations someone is going to dig out coal and supply it to them.
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Re: Climate change

Post by The Nickman »

greeneyed wrote: August 26, 2020, 4:38 pm It would be very inefficient for Australia to simply decide not to sell our coal. The countries that use the coal, create the carbon emissions, not Australia. The efficient policy solution is to have international carbon emissions reduction targets, for every country, and market based systems to achieve the reductions. The world's energy requirements are such that coal use will continue, even with carbon emission reduction targets that adequately deal with climate change. And as pointed out, because Australia's coal is high quality, it is a better choice than low grade coal... and the market based systems for carbon emission reductions will mean that there is continued demand for Australian coal... the low grade coal prices out first.
You see, that makes sense. This is where rational, informed debate is important, rather than solutions that are uninformed and actually counterproductive to the problem at hand.
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gergreg
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Re: Climate change

Post by gergreg »

Context is important. My comment is directly in response to people like Red who point at other countries as being bigger emitters as an excuse for Australia to not pull our weight.

Edit - I've done a quick scan back in this thread and according to Red Australia exports 1% of China's coal consumption. Does that mean the other 99% is dirtier coal?
Last edited by gergreg on August 26, 2020, 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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gangrenous
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Re: Climate change

Post by gangrenous »

I’m pretty sure RedRaider named coal co-captain in the team line-up this week.
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gergreg
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Re: Climate change

Post by gergreg »

gangrenous wrote:I’m pretty sure RedRaider named coal co-captain in the team line-up this week.
That's a bit harsh. Next you'll be claiming Nickman has a vested interest in the mining industry.

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Re: Climate change

Post by RedRaider »

gergreg wrote: August 26, 2020, 5:26 pm Context is important. My comment is directly in response to people like Red who point at other countries as being bigger emitters as an excuse for Australia to not pull our weight.

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Except that's not what I have said at all. Show me a comment where I have said Australia should not reduce emissions. I have supported Australia meeting the Paris Agreement reductions several times. Further I have said that every nation should be on board - for the slow witted that includes Australia. You don't need to make stuff up gergreg. Just state your point of view.
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gergreg
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Re: Climate change

Post by gergreg »

I have and you have and we disagree.

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RedRaider
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Re: Climate change

Post by RedRaider »

So I have said we (Australia and the rest of the World) should reduce emissions and you disagree - righto then.
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Climate change

Post by The Nickman »

gergreg wrote:
gangrenous wrote:I’m pretty sure RedRaider named coal co-captain in the team line-up this week.
That's a bit harsh. Next you'll be claiming Nickman has a vested interest in the mining industry.

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You could say I’m one of the leading experts in coal quality in the world (probably top 10 people)... I mean, I would never say that, but you certainly could, gerg

But that doesn’t mean I blindly defend thermal coal or deny climate change or science. The world needs to move to cleaner energy sources, and the world needs to eliminate petrol cars, and it needs to do it soon, but while there’s coal being burned for power generating, Australian coal should be burned. That’s not having a vested interest, that’s knowing the facts and the science behind coal quality and the differences between the different coal grades (or rank, as we like to call it).

And further to that, people always think I’d be without a job when the world moves to renewables... they obviously have never heard of steel or know how it’s generated. Thermal coal is the cheaper coal, it’s not worth anything in comparison to the “good stuff”. So much more of my job and my income relies upon coking coal.
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gergreg
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Re: Climate change

Post by gergreg »

I had you at 12th TBH. But seriously I'm okay to be corrected by knowledgeable posters.

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Re: Climate change

Post by Northern Raider »

gergreg wrote: August 27, 2020, 7:51 am I had you at 12th TBH. But seriously I'm okay to be corrected by knowledgeable posters.
He used to be top 10 but has slipped well down into low teens after too many benders.

What he's saying about coal quality in a simple metaphor - Somebody is needs a car for regular work commute. We're providing them a Tesla while the competition is offering a Landcruiser.
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papabear
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Re: Climate change

Post by papabear »

gergreg wrote: August 27, 2020, 7:51 am I had you at 12th TBH. But seriously I'm okay to be corrected by knowledgeable posters.

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Note to self, to persuade people ask EDIT.
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Re: Climate change

Post by RedRaider »

The Nickman wrote: August 27, 2020, 7:06 am But that doesn’t mean I blindly defend thermal coal or deny climate change or science. The world needs to move to cleaner energy sources, and the world needs to eliminate petrol cars, and it needs to do it soon, but while there’s coal being burned for power generating, Australian coal should be burned. That’s not having a vested interest, that’s knowing the facts and the science behind coal quality and the differences between the different coal grades (or rank, as we like to call it).

And further to that, people always think I’d be without a job when the world moves to renewables... they obviously have never heard of steel or know how it’s generated. Thermal coal is the cheaper coal, it’s not worth anything in comparison to the “good stuff”. So much more of my job and my income relies upon coking coal.
There is a possible announcement coming on 22 September from Elon Musk. (See link below). If the announcement is about a viable 'million mile battery' then that is an absolute game changer in the electric vehicle (EV) market and many other applications such as home energy storage. As mentioned in previous posts, the possibility then is for one battery to be the power source for a series of replacement vehicles. It is likely to be initially expensive as all new technologies are, but over time, the price will come down as competitor production ramps up. The link points to another EV start up company in China. I hope Australia can get in on this.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/we-are-w ... 31166.html

A bit more info on million mile batteries below:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-auto ... ort%20said.
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Climate change

Post by The Nickman »

Elon Musk is an absolute joker and a clown. I’ll believe the hype around him as soon as he actually delivers something... anything.
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Re: Climate change

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad »

The Nickman wrote: September 1, 2020, 7:22 pm Elon Musk is an absolute joker and a clown. I’ll believe the hype around him as soon as he actually delivers something... anything.
Something's not quite right about him. I cant put my finger on it. I could easily see him going all Hank Scorpio on the world
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The Nickman
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Re: Climate change

Post by The Nickman »

Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: September 2, 2020, 9:02 am
The Nickman wrote: September 1, 2020, 7:22 pm Elon Musk is an absolute joker and a clown. I’ll believe the hype around him as soon as he actually delivers something... anything.
Something's not quite right about him. I cant put my finger on it. I could easily see him going all Hank Scorpio on the world
Yeah, except I doubt his flamethrower would be much more than a bunch of hot air
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Northern Raider
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Re: Climate change

Post by Northern Raider »

The Nickman wrote: September 2, 2020, 12:12 pm
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: September 2, 2020, 9:02 am
The Nickman wrote: September 1, 2020, 7:22 pm Elon Musk is an absolute joker and a clown. I’ll believe the hype around him as soon as he actually delivers something... anything.
Something's not quite right about him. I cant put my finger on it. I could easily see him going all Hank Scorpio on the world
Yeah, except I doubt his flamethrower would be much more than a bunch of hot air
Fairly sure Elon Musk is behind COVID-19 while cunningly diverting blame onto Bill Gates.
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Re: Climate change

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I thought I would put out there some information on an Australian start up company which plans to produce Hydrogen Fuel Cell vehicles by 2022. Here's hoping they can make it to market. The issue with Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles is the lack of infrastructure for people to gain access to Hydrogen. The advantages are obvious. The fuel cell produces electricity which powers an electric motor to drive the vehicle. The range on a Hydrogen vehicle is longer than a current electric vehicle (EV). It only takes a few minutes to re-fuel, much like petrol and diesel now, which is a disadvantage for an EV. When the hydrogen is burned it produces - water. Initial small production runs will likely mean that the cost of these vehicles is higher than mass produced vehicles. But this is a possible local glimpse into the future.
https://www.h2x.earth/
https://reneweconomy.com.au/h2x-hopes-t ... suv-95181/

In the USA there is a company called Nikola which has a similar market capitalization to Ford. Some information on them below. Watch for a possible new entrant into the Australian market with hydrogen fuel cell and EVs.
https://thedriven.io/2020/06/10/nikola- ... rogen-ute/
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Re: Climate change

Post by RedRaider »

Elon Musk announcement was underwhelming on 22 September. Not much new announced and delays.
https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/22/2145 ... highlights
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zim
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Re: Climate change

Post by zim »

You need to broaden your horizons.
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/09/he ... batteries/

How do you equate new battery chemistry and price reductions to bring it down to ICE with underwhelming?
New battery chemistry alone is a huge deal.
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Re: Climate change

Post by RedRaider »

Zim, I appreciate your input with technology links. Lots of things happening in the future but also lots of 'if's' about Telsla which even the writer of the article acknowledges with references to: " it wouldn’t be a Tesla announcement without vague timelines, and it was a little unclear which improvements are ready to go now—and which ones they’re just expecting to succeed in the next couple of years." I hope the $25,000 Tesla becomes a reality so that more people will be priced into the market. Henry Ford had a 19 year production run with the Model T. Interesting that it was called the Ford Model T as it followed the previous Ford Model S. Tesla also has a Model S. I wonder what Elon Musk will look to call the Tesla $25,000 model should it eventuate.

For EV technology which is going to happen:
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/most ... olkswagen/
Some impressive looking Electric Vehicles in that lot.

I got to open the latest Electric Vehicle fast charger the company I work for installed in Scone last week. Local State Member, Mayor and some media there. We have put more than 30 in place. The last few in conjunction with Transport NSW. More to come with all major highways to have an EV fast charger within about 150km of each other to assist in overcoming the range anxiety of people considering owning an EV. "If you build it they will come". It is about assisting tourism into Regional NSW.
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Re: Climate change

Post by RedRaider »

For those considering purchasing an Electric Vehicle and wondering where all the Electric Vehicle chargers are, there is an app called 'Plugshare' which shows where all of them are. This is regardless of which organisation put them in place. The EV charger network is broad and expanding.
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Re: Climate change

Post by RedRaider »

See below a study on which areas of improvement are needed to make Electric Vehicles mainstream.

https://www.castrol.com/en_gb/united-ki ... ption.html
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gangrenous
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Re: Climate change

Post by gangrenous »

Royal Commission wrote: 17.57 We heard many perspectives from public submissions that describe prescribed burning as, in effect, a panacea – a solution to bushfire risk. It is not.
Royal Commission wrote: Weather has the greatest influence on bushfire behaviour and that, as fire weather conditions deteriorate, the influence of fuels declines. This means that the benefits of fuel load management activities also decline as fire weather conditions deteriorate. Research suggests that most bushfire-related impacts on lives and property in Australia have occurred in severe, extreme or catastrophic fire weather conditions.
Interesting that the Royal Commission didn’t appear to make any strong recommendations around insufficient hazard reduction burns in public land after hearing all the evidence isn’t it? Instead there were some subtle points about public education.

Hazard reduction burns are obviously a part of the strategy. There will be improvements that can now be made off the back of the findings. But it is a travesty that the RC was given no scope to address Climate Change in general, given it is the root of the bloody problem.

We all know why it couldn’t be included. Because it would have found this government’s policy vacuum wanting.
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Dr Zaius
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Re: Climate change

Post by Dr Zaius »

Sadly, until there is political will to accept that man made climate change is a thing, and motivation to do something about it, most of the discussion in this thread is pointless
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gangrenous
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Re: Climate change

Post by gangrenous »

Only one way to get political will.
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gergreg
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Re: Climate change

Post by gergreg »

gangrenous wrote:Only one way to get political will.
Vote RedRaider into office?

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gangrenous
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Re: Climate change

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RedRaider
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Re: Climate change

Post by RedRaider »

Dr Zaius wrote: October 31, 2020, 12:57 pm Sadly, until there is political will to accept that man made climate change is a thing, and motivation to do something about it, most of the discussion in this thread is pointless Image
A World Wide issue requiring every emitting nation to get on board, Doc. The 4 largest emitters have not signed up to reductions by 2030 under Paris. Australia has and I expect us to live up to that commitment. See below the March quarter update:

'The latest Quarterly Update of Australia’s National Greenhouse Gas Inventory includes preliminary greenhouse gas emissions estimates for this period. That’s in addition to estimates up to March 2020.

Australia’s overall emissions fell 1.4% or 7.7 million tonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent (Mt CO2-e) to 528.7 Mt CO2-e. They are now 14.3% below 2005 levels (the baseline year for the Paris Agreement) in the year to March 2020.'


Covid has had an impact in reducing the emissions. However for those interested in facts it is a good outcome considering the export picture.
Emissions from exports rose 1.9 per cent (3.9 Mt CO2-e) to 38.6 per cent of total emissions. The increase mainly reflects an 11 per cent increase in our LNG exports to 79 million tonnes in the year to March 2020 on the year to March 2019. Australia’s LNG exports have the potential to reduce emissions in importing countries by up to 169 million tonnes each year.
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gangrenous
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Climate change

Post by gangrenous »

RedRaider wrote: Australia’s overall emissions fell 1.4% or 7.7 million tonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent (Mt CO2-e) to 528.7 Mt CO2-e. They are now 14.3% below 2005 levels (the baseline year for the Paris Agreement) in the year to March 2020.'
And as I’ve pointed out before - The overwhelming majority of the drop you bolded came under Labor and carbon pricing. The reduction has been 2/5 of **** all under this government.

Though obviously COVID is going to drop it some now.
Last edited by gangrenous on November 2, 2020, 5:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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greeneyed
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Re: Climate change

Post by greeneyed »

The graph shows that there has been a plateau in emission reductions... up until COVID. The recent reductions in March and June are entirely due to the biggest recession (or one of) we’ve seen in history. Policy is not doing anything (or very little) to achieve restructuring of the economy. Provided COVID is controlled we will hopefully see a big bounce back. But we know what will also happen to emissions if the economy does bounce back.

https://www.industry.gov.au/data-and-pu ... march-2020
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RedRaider
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Re: Climate change

Post by RedRaider »

Massive increase in LNG exports from Australia for which there is 'runaway pollution' factor. So while the exports are providing income to Australia and providing cleaner energy than coal to the importers it still affects the Australian emission numbers particularly over the years to 2019. The export increase of Australian LNG is clearly shown in the BP report. See below links.

https://apo.org.au/sites/default/files/ ... 266691.pdf

https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/busin ... report.pdf
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Re: Climate change

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