Climate change

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dubby
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Climate change

Post by dubby » February 23, 2019, 6:00 pm

Roger Kenworthy wrote:We have 15 years of evidence to doubt Stuart with.

Are you also a climate change denier Nickman?
I'm a carbon based climate change denier
Do your best.

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Re: So I've thought about it, and I'm prepared to give Stuart the benefit of the doubt to start 2019

Post by gangrenous » February 23, 2019, 6:52 pm

There’s hardly any point dubby. On what grounds could you possibly be a climate change denier?

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Re: So I've thought about it, and I'm prepared to give Stuart the benefit of the doubt to start 2019

Post by zim » February 24, 2019, 12:33 am

dubby wrote:
February 23, 2019, 6:00 pm
Roger Kenworthy wrote:We have 15 years of evidence to doubt Stuart with.

Are you also a climate change denier Nickman?
I'm a carbon based climate change denier
Do your best.
Hard to argue with that. All life is carbon based ;)

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Re: So I've thought about it, and I'm prepared to give Stuart the benefit of the doubt to start 2019

Post by dubby » February 24, 2019, 6:43 am

gangrenous wrote:There’s hardly any point dubby. On what grounds could you possibly be a climate change denier?
co2 is one of atmospheric gasses and is the weakest of the greenhouse gasses. It has nothing to do with the activity of the sun. Co2 does not drive temp on earth as is currently believed. The sun and orbits of planets directly affect dry and wet periods on earth. More Cosmic radiation enters earth during low sunspots. Warming and cooling periods are cyclical and have been happening on earth since life began. If you look up the Milankovitch cycles you can see how earths orbit around the sun brings about a glacial period when it is furthest from the sun. There are many variables, not co2 alone which is an incomplete picture. This page has fantastic insights into knowledge that is thousands of years handed down. Ancient humans charted the planets to determine best time to plant and harvest. Hope that helps a bit...

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Re: So I've thought about it, and I'm prepared to give Stuart the benefit of the doubt to start 2019

Post by Neeeegz » February 24, 2019, 7:18 am

dubby wrote:
gangrenous wrote:There’s hardly any point dubby. On what grounds could you possibly be a climate change denier?
co2 is one of atmospheric gasses and is the weakest of the greenhouse gasses. It has nothing to do with the activity of the sun. Co2 does not drive temp on earth as is currently believed. The sun and orbits of planets directly affect dry and wet periods on earth. More Cosmic radiation enters earth during low sunspots. Warming and cooling periods are cyclical and have been happening on earth since life began. If you look up the Milankovitch cycles you can see how earths orbit around the sun brings about a glacial period when it is furthest from the sun. There are many variables, not co2 alone which is an incomplete picture. This page has fantastic insights into knowledge that is thousands of years handed down. Ancient humans charted the planets to determine best time to plant and harvest. Hope that helps a bit...

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That's is the best thing I've read on this thread. 100% correct and bereft of bull****.

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Re: So I've thought about it, and I'm prepared to give Stuart the benefit of the doubt to start 2019

Post by PigRickman » February 24, 2019, 7:24 am

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Re: So I've thought about it, and I'm prepared to give Stuart the benefit of the doubt to start 2019

Post by TongueFTW » February 24, 2019, 7:32 am

Dubby - you miss the point completely. The point is not whether man made climate change is real. It is a multidimensional problem that is almost impossible to isolate and describe with a few factors. However, under uncertainty and opacity, and given that we only have one planet, you must invoke the precautionary principle - that is, what *might* hurt the climate, is not worth doing. Even if the chance is 0.001%, due the dire ramifications, it is not a chance worth taking. You cannot look at the probability in isolation, it is the probability multiplied by the event (or, the "expectation" as we math guys call it).

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Re: So I've thought about it, and I'm prepared to give Stuart the benefit of the doubt to start 2019

Post by dubby » February 24, 2019, 8:02 am

TongueFTW wrote:Dubby - you miss the point completely. The point is not whether man made climate change is real. It is a multidimensional problem that is almost impossible to isolate and describe with a few factors. However, under uncertainty and opacity, and given that we only have one planet, you must invoke the precautionary principle - that is, what *might* hurt the climate, is not worth doing. Even if the chance is 0.001%, due the dire ramifications, it is not a chance worth taking. You cannot look at the probability in isolation, it is the probability multiplied by the event (or, the "expectation" as we math guys call it).
Nope, you've missed the point.

If it's not man made, why ban coal mining? Why provide government subsidies on renewables?
Why all the emission targets?
Why are we forgetting that man contributes 3% of co2 into the atmosphere, and of that 3% Australia contributes 1%? That's pointless!

No, the carbon based global warming thing is a George Soros funded, UN driven lie.

Why aren't they looking into other genuine and reliable sources of climate change, like the one i alluded to?



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Re: Climate change

Post by dubby » February 24, 2019, 8:16 am



I challenge you to watch this video. Its long (90mins), but worth a watch for anyone

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Re: Climate change

Post by gangrenous » February 24, 2019, 3:32 pm

If that video was 90 seconds long it would still be a waste of time watching it.

Thousands of scientists have devoted their lives to investigating this. One crackpot on YouTube doesn’t change things.

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Re: So I've thought about it, and I'm prepared to give Stuart the benefit of the doubt to start 2019

Post by Green eyed Mick » February 24, 2019, 4:53 pm

dubby wrote:
February 24, 2019, 8:02 am
TongueFTW wrote:Dubby - you miss the point completely. The point is not whether man made climate change is real. It is a multidimensional problem that is almost impossible to isolate and describe with a few factors. However, under uncertainty and opacity, and given that we only have one planet, you must invoke the precautionary principle - that is, what *might* hurt the climate, is not worth doing. Even if the chance is 0.001%, due the dire ramifications, it is not a chance worth taking. You cannot look at the probability in isolation, it is the probability multiplied by the event (or, the "expectation" as we math guys call it).
Nope, you've missed the point.

If it's not man made, why ban coal mining? Why provide government subsidies on renewables?
Why all the emission targets?
Why are we forgetting that man contributes 3% of co2 into the atmosphere, and of that 3% Australia contributes 1%? That's pointless!

No, the carbon based global warming thing is a George Soros funded, UN driven lie.

Why aren't they looking into other genuine and reliable sources of climate change, like the one i alluded to?



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I heard about this George Soros guy on Sky News. Sounds like a bond villain.

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Re: Climate change

Post by gergreg » February 24, 2019, 5:06 pm

gangrenous wrote:If that video was 90 seconds long it would still be a waste of time watching it.

Thousands of scientists have devoted their lives to investigating this. One crackpot on YouTube doesn’t change things.
Manbush has hijacked Dubbys account?

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Re: Climate change

Post by Dr Zaius » February 24, 2019, 7:20 pm

Good grief Dubby. Good grief.
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Re: Climate change

Post by PigRickman » February 24, 2019, 7:49 pm

Im so **** down for this.
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Re: Climate change

Post by gergreg » February 24, 2019, 8:12 pm

Let's just roll onto flat earth while were at it.

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Climate change

Post by gangrenous » February 25, 2019, 6:42 am

dubby wrote: Why aren't they looking into other genuine and reliable sources of climate change, like the one i alluded to?
Do you think you could walk in and run T_R’s business based on an hour’s reading on the Internet?

Yes...

Ok then, my argument is shot
Last edited by gangrenous on February 25, 2019, 6:42 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Climate change

Post by T_R » February 25, 2019, 7:14 am


gangrenous wrote:
Here’s an example I think you’ll understand. Do you think you could walk in and run T_R’s business based on an hour’s reading on the internet?
He'd walk it in.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
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Climate change

Post by gangrenous » February 25, 2019, 7:26 am

Edited post based on new information.

Ultimately it’s a hypocritical line of argument anyway. I’m always opining outside my areas of expertise

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Re: Climate change

Post by papabear » February 25, 2019, 8:17 am

I watched the first half an hour of dubbys video.

It was interesting. That said I am never a fan of data that appears to be more then it is. For example the amount of record temperatures set in the 1930s far exceeds what has happened in later decades therefore the 1930s was far hotter then today is a little bit disingenious.

It is like the argument that say there were far more olympic records broken in the 1930s then today. Therefore everyone was running / swimming faster in the 1930s.

When you are running colder there are going to be times when the heat comes and it will do more damage to the record books, but we are measuring overall temperatures not dmg to record books.

The one thing though that I think gets swept under the carpet is how many claims have been made by those pushing the global warming agenda that have not come anywhere near fruition or have been wildly over estimated. The very first time I heard about global warming was a short film called saving heironymus at school in about 94 (yr 4) i think. Basically a dude from the 2020 got on his time warp skateboard to go back in time because the last of his turtles in his turtle stream had died as his little benign stream had turned into the amazon river. So on his skate board he gets goes back to the late 80s to tell kids to stop using so much electricity.

Alarmist predictions imo do more damage to the environment then help it, funding is a finite recourse and the more you put into speculation, the more you are taking away from propecting, saving and repairing other eco systems.

That all said, after watching 30 mins of the dubs video I had a google and you can ook at time capture photographs of the two ice caps and see that whilst antartica is growing marginally, the arctic is disappearing very very very fast.

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Re: So I've thought about it, and I'm prepared to give Stuart the benefit of the doubt to start 2019

Post by Manbush » February 25, 2019, 9:35 am

dubby wrote:
February 24, 2019, 8:02 am
Nope, you've missed the point.

If it's not man made, why ban coal mining? Why provide government subsidies on renewables?
Why all the emission targets?
Why are we forgetting that man contributes 3% of co2 into the atmosphere, and of that 3% Australia contributes 1%? That's pointless!

No, the carbon based global warming thing is a George Soros funded, UN driven lie.

Why aren't they looking into other genuine and reliable sources of climate change, like the one i alluded to?



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Dubby now even if you don’t believe in man made climate change doesn’t it make sense to start moving away from energy sources which are limited, pollute the earth and the air we breathe and with say with oil stop financing barbaric regimes?
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Re: Climate change

Post by The Rickman » February 26, 2019, 11:06 am

This is an interesting one. I've always been on the fence about climate change, although in later years I'm leaning towards it being true, I just can't believe 98% of the world's scientists are making something up.

And now that I see dobby's views on the topic, I've officially been pushed over the edge.
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Re: Climate change

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad » February 26, 2019, 6:10 pm

I’m the same. I’ve been on the fence for a while. Growing up on my family’s farm, mum and dad would tell me these weather patterns are cyclical, and the weather we’re having now is comparable to similar conditions 50-60 years ago.

That said, I feel like we’re having these once in a lifetime weather events annually now, and I find it hard to believe so many experts haven’t reviewed historical events before making their statements.

So I find myself slowly sliding towards the believer’s side of the fence.


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Re: Climate change

Post by dubby » February 26, 2019, 6:28 pm

Check the alternative.

It's NOT man made
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Re: Climate change

Post by The Rickman » February 26, 2019, 6:43 pm

dubby wrote:Check the alternative.

It's NOT man made
And you don’t think 98% of the world’s scientists are doing that?


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Re: Climate change

Post by gergreg » February 26, 2019, 7:52 pm

dubby wrote:Check the alternative.

It's NOT man made
Okay. Let's for a moment imagine that climate change is not man made. If humans can work towards a solution for the problem why wouldn't we do it? If the majority of scientists in the world believe that reducing our carbon emissions is a possible solution why wouldn't we try?

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Re: Climate change

Post by Schifty » February 26, 2019, 8:02 pm

There must be some secret trillionaire solar panel mogul out there if they can afford to pay of 98% of the world's scientists.

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Re: Climate change

Post by greeneyed » February 26, 2019, 8:13 pm

The vast bulk of the world's scientists have concluded that climate change is caused by the activities of man.

But even if we accept that is disputed by some, the sensible thing to do would be to take action to reduce carbon emissions on a "no regrets" basis. Because the impact is irreversible.
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Re: Climate change

Post by PigRickman » February 26, 2019, 8:19 pm

Im in the position that i absolutely believe in CC, but im also not sure Australia should bother breaking their **** backs about trying to solve it when our contribution is but a drop in the ocean

Until we get to a point where the contributors are willing to make real and significant change, im not sure this is "our" problem... which i concede is not something many will sign off on, most will say and maybe rightly so, we should do as much as we can, as incredibly limited as it is... im not quite there.

But denying its a thing, at this point, as someone who wasnt sold for a long time... is **** insane.
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Re: Climate change

Post by gergreg » February 26, 2019, 8:36 pm

^^^^ at this point in time it looks like most countries are looking at what (little) other countries are doing and just shrugging their shoulders and saying why should we do anything because "they're" not doing anything.

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Climate change

Post by gangrenous » February 26, 2019, 8:58 pm

PigRickman wrote:Im in the position that i absolutely believe in CC, but im also not sure Australia should bother breaking their **** backs about trying to solve it when our contribution is but a drop in the ocean

Until we get to a point where the contributors are willing to make real and significant change, im not sure this is "our" problem... which i concede is not something many will sign off on, most will say and maybe rightly so, we should do as much as we can, as incredibly limited as it is... im not quite there.

But denying its a thing, at this point, as someone who wasnt sold for a long time... is **** insane.
Do we need other countries to help - absolutely!

Are we an insignificant part of the problem? Absolutely not. 300 countries and we’re over 1% of the total, so we’re at least triple the average per country. Plus if I recall correctly we’re the absolute worst in the world per capita.

We have benefitted from the advantages of being a polluting developed nation for a long time. It’s time we at the very least pulled our heads in on a per capita basis, and ideally took a leading stance in this problem. It absolutely is “our” problem, and it defies all logic to me why people think Chinese people should be finding a way to live on a quarter of our emissions per capita because they happen to be in the one country. The only thing that makes it easier is that when they change laws and behaviour their cumulative effect is much bigger. But there is absolutely no fairness in the large countries being the only ones needing to tighten their belts.

And you know what? It might just make us some cash if we’re the ones who can crack the problem and license the technology. But yeah yeah, it’s not as certain as the cash we get from watching the planet burn. I’m sure that won’t impact the economy hey Liberals?

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Re: Climate change

Post by Dr Zaius » February 26, 2019, 9:45 pm

Good grief Dubby.

I'm no expert on climate change. But I am expert in something, and it took me 16 years of education and training to achieve that expertise. I know what I know, and more importantly, I know what I don't know. And I know what it takes to be expert.

I'm not remotely interested in debating climate change, as I have no expertise on the subject. And sorry to be the bearer of bad news but neither do you. But do you know who does have expertise on the matter? Those scientists that have devoted their careers to studying climate science. Those leading the discussion have similar level of experience or more in their area that I do in mine. And you can only dream of having an ounce of the understanding on the subject that they do. The fact that you seem to believe that you somehow have a better grasp of the situation than them after watching a video on the internet suggests that you are either laughably ignorant or blindingly arrogant.
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Re: Climate change

Post by The Rickman » February 27, 2019, 11:51 am

gangrenous wrote:
February 26, 2019, 8:58 pm
PigRickman wrote:Im in the position that i absolutely believe in CC, but im also not sure Australia should bother breaking their **** backs about trying to solve it when our contribution is but a drop in the ocean

Until we get to a point where the contributors are willing to make real and significant change, im not sure this is "our" problem... which i concede is not something many will sign off on, most will say and maybe rightly so, we should do as much as we can, as incredibly limited as it is... im not quite there.

But denying its a thing, at this point, as someone who wasnt sold for a long time... is **** insane.
Do we need other countries to help - absolutely!

Are we an insignificant part of the problem? Absolutely not. 300 countries and we’re over 1% of the total, so we’re at least triple the average per country. Plus if I recall correctly we’re the absolute worst in the world per capita.

We have benefitted from the advantages of being a polluting developed nation for a long time. It’s time we at the very least pulled our heads in on a per capita basis, and ideally took a leading stance in this problem. It absolutely is “our” problem, and it defies all logic to me why people think Chinese people should be finding a way to live on a quarter of our emissions per capita because they happen to be in the one country. The only thing that makes it easier is that when they change laws and behaviour their cumulative effect is much bigger. But there is absolutely no fairness in the large countries being the only ones needing to tighten their belts.

And you know what? It might just make us some cash if we’re the ones who can crack the problem and license the technology. But yeah yeah, it’s not as certain as the cash we get from watching the planet burn. I’m sure that won’t impact the economy hey Liberals?
I have to say my opinion was always more closely aligned to PigRickman in this regard, but after reading gangy's post I have to concede that his is the more responsible way of looking at it. It's everyone's concern, so everyone should be trying to reduce their omissions.
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Re: Climate change

Post by The Rickman » February 27, 2019, 11:52 am

Dr Zaius wrote:
February 26, 2019, 9:45 pm
Good grief Dubby.

I'm no expert on climate change. But I am expert in something, and it took me 16 years of education and training to achieve that expertise. I know what I know, and more importantly, I know what I don't know. And I know what it takes to be expert.

I'm not remotely interested in debating climate change, as I have no expertise on the subject. And sorry to be the bearer of bad news but neither do you. But do you know who does have expertise on the matter? Those scientists that have devoted their careers to studying climate science. Those leading the discussion have similar level of experience or more in their area that I do in mine. And you can only dream of having an ounce of the understanding on the subject that they do. The fact that you seem to believe that you somehow have a better grasp of the situation than them after watching a video on the internet suggests that you are either laughably ignorant or blindingly arrogant.
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Re: Climate change

Post by Northern Raider » February 27, 2019, 3:32 pm

To be honest, in the debate about climate science it's very difficult to find a truly independent opinion on the topic. Pretty much everything published and readily accessible is pushing some form of agenda.
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Laurie Daley
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Joined: April 15, 2007, 11:03 am
Location: Queensland somewhere

Re: Climate change

Post by Dr Zaius » February 27, 2019, 4:08 pm

Northern Raider wrote:To be honest, in the debate about climate science it's very difficult to find a truly independent opinion on the topic. Pretty much everything published and readily accessible is pushing some form of agenda.
Which would be fine if it was a 50:50 split in opinions. But there is not, there is 98:2, which says to me that when it comes to people who know what they are talking about, there is no debate. There is always a 1-2% crackpot group in any craft group. More so when some of the most powerful companies in the world have a financial interest in those crackpot views.
RIP Greenbits: 2007-2014

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