The Politics Thread 2017

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Northern Raider
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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by Northern Raider » December 11, 2017, 10:27 am

The Nickman wrote:
Northern Raider wrote:
T_R wrote:
The Nickman wrote:How has nobody mentioned the Trump/Jerusalem thing in here yet? The man’s an absolute maniac!
To be fair, Clinton, Bush and Obama had the same policy.
It only turns to outrage when Trump says it. :)
Well none of this is exactly true. He's actually moving the embassy to Jerusalem, every President before him has signed six-monthly executive orders staying the move.
Trump signed it too. Likely continue to do so in the immediate term. They recognise it could take years to establish.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by dubby » December 11, 2017, 10:42 am

Well, Jerusalem does belong to Israel.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by T_R » December 11, 2017, 10:58 am

The Nickman wrote:
Northern Raider wrote:
T_R wrote:
The Nickman wrote:How has nobody mentioned the Trump/Jerusalem thing in here yet? The man’s an absolute maniac!
To be fair, Clinton, Bush and Obama had the same policy.
It only turns to outrage when Trump says it. :)
Well none of this is exactly true. He's actually moving the embassy to Jerusalem, every President before him has signed six-monthly executive orders staying the move.
The earliest it could be done is almost four years from now, when Trump will be out of power .

Nothing changed, at least at a practical level.

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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by The Rickman » December 11, 2017, 11:01 am

dubby wrote:Well, Jerusalem does belong to Israel.
Well no, no it doesn't. And that's the reason why not a single country has their embassy in Jerusalem, and also the reason every single American ally condemned their move and every single member state in the United Nations condemned the decision as well.

East Jerusalem is considered the capital of any future Palestinian state, and at present, by international law, it is illegally occupied by Israel. How can you state that Jerusalem belongs to Israel? What are you basing that on, dubby?
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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by dubby » December 11, 2017, 11:51 am

History.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by PigRickman » December 11, 2017, 11:55 am

Grim stuff.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by The Rickman » December 11, 2017, 12:30 pm

This is disgusting stuff by dubby, I swear there isn’t a single political or basic human rights decision that I’m of a like opinion with

It’s at the stage now where if he told me he believed the sky was blue I’d have to go outside and look
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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by dubby » December 11, 2017, 2:39 pm

In Qld, your sky is probably gray these days
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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by Manbush » December 11, 2017, 6:15 pm

Where’s Rodman I’m sure he’d have some very strong views on this.

It’s a tricky situation but on the surface I’d say it should be Palestine’s, it was theirs before the UN created modern day Israel on their land.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by Captain Punish » December 11, 2017, 6:28 pm

Can we not just ask Jesus? Surely he knows.

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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by Manbush » December 11, 2017, 6:48 pm

Well I keep hearing he’s returning soon so I’ll make sure to ask his views when he does.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by dubby » December 11, 2017, 6:53 pm

Nickman, We each hold different world views. We don't agree on everything. But, we can appreciate and respect each others opinions. Agree to disagree, so to speak.

That's what I'm trying to do. What I want to do.

I'm off my medicine now and feeling lucid. Still got a ways to go.

And now that things are clearer, I really just want to live a quite, peaceable life.

I respect you and your opinions. We are different, but that doesn't mean we can't get along.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by gangrenous » December 11, 2017, 7:02 pm

Thing is dubby, some opinions are not worthy of respect.

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The Politics Thread 2017

Post by greeneyed » December 11, 2017, 9:28 pm

Saw this quote from a story shared on Twitter... This is why those who’ve been carrying on about how wonderful the postal vote was should take a second to think.

“So today I have mixed emotions. The whole process has been exhausting. Magda Szubanski’s speech at the Press Club two weeks ago articulated what many of us have been feeling – we’re conflicted – feeling both happy at the outcome, but also disappointed that we had to be put through this. For many gay people this has dredged up vivid memories of a life-time of bullying, humiliation, and intimidation.”

It’s a pretty sad condemnation of the whole thing IMO. A condemnation of the politicians and their process. A condemnation of those who opposed equal treatment of their fellow human beings.


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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by gangrenous » December 11, 2017, 9:45 pm

Whenever GE posts in the politics thread he always nails it.

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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by Notaroboticfish » December 11, 2017, 9:54 pm

Apparently we’re going to start putting journalists in gaol for up to 20 years for reporting on “sensitive information”
https://www.buzzfeed.com/paulfarrell/au ... .did2JVBKp


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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by Northern Raider » December 12, 2017, 7:57 am

Notaroboticfish wrote:Apparently we’re going to start putting journalists in gaol for up to 20 years for reporting on “sensitive information”
https://www.buzzfeed.com/paulfarrell/au ... .did2JVBKp
Legislation clearly targeted at The Mole.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by dubby » December 12, 2017, 8:37 am

gangrenous wrote:Thing is dubby, some opinions are not worthy of respect.
But we can respect the liberty that allows that person to have an opinion
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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by Green eyed Mick » December 12, 2017, 9:34 am

dubby wrote:
gangrenous wrote:Thing is dubby, some opinions are not worthy of respect.
But we can respect the liberty that allows that person to have an opinion
Freedom of speech is not consequence free speech. If you say something that is baseless, discriminatory or hurtful than you have to take the response on the chin.

Jerusalem doesn't belong to Israel. Your comment was historically inaccurate and inflammatory.

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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by The Rickman » December 12, 2017, 9:39 am

dubby wrote:
gangrenous wrote:Thing is dubby, some opinions are not worthy of respect.
But we can respect the liberty that allows that person to have an opinion
I respect the liberty, but I can't respect someone who has **** opinions that are divisive and discriminatory towards other sections of society. Like I said earlier, I essentially disagree with everything dubby believes regarding human rights or treatment of minorities, we are complete polar opposites. In my opinion, thinking like dubs' belongs consigned to the 20th century.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by The Rickman » December 12, 2017, 9:39 am

Green eyed Mick wrote:
dubby wrote:
gangrenous wrote:Thing is dubby, some opinions are not worthy of respect.
But we can respect the liberty that allows that person to have an opinion
Freedom of speech is not consequence free speech. If you say something that is baseless, discriminatory or hurtful than you have to take the response on the chin.

Jerusalem doesn't belong to Israel. Your comment was historically inaccurate and inflammatory.
Spot on, just because you have freedom of speech isn't carte blanche to be a horrible ****.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by dubby » December 12, 2017, 9:51 am

Well, none of us are neutral historical experts, and none of us are qualified to comment on the authenticity of the Jewish or Palestinian claim to Jerusalem.

I made a claim I cannot astutely verify, based on a limited understanding of biblical and Jewish history.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by dubby » December 12, 2017, 9:53 am

The Nickman wrote:
dubby wrote:
gangrenous wrote:Thing is dubby, some opinions are not worthy of respect.
But we can respect the liberty that allows that person to have an opinion
I respect the liberty, but I can't respect someone who has **** opinions that are divisive and discriminatory towards other sections of society. Like I said earlier, I essentially disagree with everything dubby believes regarding human rights or treatment of minorities, we are complete polar opposites. In my opinion, thinking like dubs' belongs consigned to the 20th century.
Thing is, someone might be outraged by your opinions.

Which is why I tend to avoid political and religious discussion. Ne'er the twain shall meet.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by Manbush » December 12, 2017, 10:23 am

You can respect the right to an opinion but it doesn’t mean you need to respect said opinion. As I regularly say people deserve respect opinions/ideas/beliefs do not, we never know what experiences have led people to certain views.

Just on the history though I only care about demonstrable history, things that we have evidence for, the Torah and Bible should not come into it unless they can be proven, they’ve been shown to be unreliable.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by The Rickman » December 12, 2017, 10:32 am

Manbush wrote:You can respect the right to an opinion but it doesn’t mean you need to respect said opinion. As I regularly say people deserve respect opinions/ideas/beliefs do not, we never know what experiences have led people to certain views.

Just on the history though I only care about demonstrable history, things that we have evidence for, the Torah and Bible should not come into it unless they can be proven, they’ve been shown to be unreliable.
Exactly, and if people are going to cling to stuff in the Bible that suits their argument while ignoring all the bat **** crazy stuff their opinion is just laughable at best.

At the very least, on the Israel/Palestine conflict, without taking sides, both sides claim their right to Israel. And essentially all of the international community recognises East Jerusalem as the capital of a future Palestinian state, and that Israel is illegally occupying that part of the city.

For any chance of peace and a two-state solution, nobody is getting all of Israel. They just can't, no matter what crazy religious idiots think.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by dubby » December 12, 2017, 10:40 am

Manbush wrote:You can respect the right to an opinion but it doesn’t mean you need to respect said opinion. As I regularly say people deserve respect opinions/ideas/beliefs do not, we never know what experiences have led people to certain views.

Just on the history though I only care about demonstrable history, things that we have evidence for, the Torah and Bible should not come into it unless they can be proven, they’ve been shown to be unreliable.
I had a chuckle.
Your first para is exactly what I've been saying.

Then you finish with a clanger in your last sentence. Image
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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by dubby » December 12, 2017, 10:42 am

Nickman, you're a good guy.
But for all your faux outrage over minorities, you go and say religious idiots, and laugh when people say they should wack off to a picture of Jesus.

You're as bad as those you despise.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by PigRickman » December 12, 2017, 10:48 am

Green eyed Mick wrote:
dubby wrote:
gangrenous wrote:Thing is dubby, some opinions are not worthy of respect.
But we can respect the liberty that allows that person to have an opinion
Freedom of speech is not consequence free speech. If you say something that is baseless, discriminatory or hurtful than you have to take the response on the chin.

Jerusalem doesn't belong to Israel. Your comment was historically inaccurate and inflammatory.
This is 100% spot on
Free speech doesn’t grant you permission to say inaccurate and inflammatory things without fear of having it called out.
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers and Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by gergreg » December 12, 2017, 11:10 am

dubby wrote:Nickman, We each hold different world views. We don't agree on everything. But, we can appreciate and respect each others opinions. Agree to disagree, so to speak.

That's what I'm trying to do. What I want to do.

I'm off my medicine now and feeling lucid. Still got a ways to go.

And now that things are clearer, I really just want to live a quite, peaceable life.

I respect you and your opinions. We are different, but that doesn't mean we can't get along.
Not wanting to make light of what you are going through, I find it interesting and commend you for having sought assistance from medicine A.K.A. science rather than relying on faith.

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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by dubby » December 12, 2017, 11:18 am

Well that could be considered glib, gerg. But I don't think you're that sort of guy.

I used both faith and medicine. I dont think science replaces faith or vice versa, particularly with medicine.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by The Rickman » December 12, 2017, 11:22 am

dubby wrote:
Manbush wrote:You can respect the right to an opinion but it doesn’t mean you need to respect said opinion. As I regularly say people deserve respect opinions/ideas/beliefs do not, we never know what experiences have led people to certain views.

Just on the history though I only care about demonstrable history, things that we have evidence for, the Torah and Bible should not come into it unless they can be proven, they’ve been shown to be unreliable.
I had a chuckle.
Your first para is exactly what I've been saying.

Then you finish with a clanger in your last sentence. Image
Personally, I see nothing wrong with his last sentence. Where's the "clanger"?
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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by dubby » December 12, 2017, 11:25 am

You don't see the irony? Unreliable information? Bushy and some of his posts in this very thread?
You're chief among those who lol at bushys source of information etc.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by dubby » December 12, 2017, 11:26 am

Pigman wrote:
Green eyed Mick wrote:
dubby wrote:
gangrenous wrote:Thing is dubby, some opinions are not worthy of respect.
But we can respect the liberty that allows that person to have an opinion
Freedom of speech is not consequence free speech. If you say something that is baseless, discriminatory or hurtful than you have to take the response on the chin.

Jerusalem doesn't belong to Israel. Your comment was historically inaccurate and inflammatory.
This is 100% spot on
Free speech doesn’t grant you permission to say inaccurate and inflammatory things without fear of having it called out.
Yet that's what they did.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by PigRickman » December 12, 2017, 11:29 am

That’s what who did?!?
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Re: The Politics Thread 2017

Post by Manbush » December 12, 2017, 11:50 am

dubby wrote:
Manbush wrote:You can respect the right to an opinion but it doesn’t mean you need to respect said opinion. As I regularly say people deserve respect opinions/ideas/beliefs do not, we never know what experiences have led people to certain views.

Just on the history though I only care about demonstrable history, things that we have evidence for, the Torah and Bible should not come into it unless they can be proven, they’ve been shown to be unreliable.
I had a chuckle.
Your first para is exactly what I've been saying.

Then you finish with a clanger in your last sentence. Image
Even our old resident Jew Albi highlighted how some of the stuff never actually occurred and were just myths like the mass exodus and science backs it up then there’s the whole god gave them the land, a claim as big as that needs to be supported by evidence to have any legitimacy, Hitchens’s razor.
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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