The Politics Thread 2009

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Nick » October 28, 2009, 3:45 pm

beetlejuice wrote:
Schifty wrote:There are more illegal immigrants who arrived here by plane than boat..

This being people who came for a 'holiday' and then do a runner.. Obviously if they can afford a plane ticket and get a tourist visa to begin with they were originally in a much better situation than people who flea their homeland, and are willing to spend weeks in deplorable conditions to avoid being killed by a bunch of psychopaths..

But "boat people" are much easier targets..

Also "plane people" is much harder to use in headlines and start fear campaigns with..
also helps that the boat people are from the same ehtnic background as what has become the ethnic target of the decade by australian society.
maybe we wouldnt have problems if they didnt fly planes into buildings and detonate bombs in mass crowds of innocent people :D
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Northern Raider » October 28, 2009, 5:01 pm

There are bucket loads of countries between Australia and the places these people are fleeing from. Why do they bypass all those to come here? If their priroity is to escape persecution in their homeland then surely they cannot be selective about their destination. Once they are out they should be happy. Not getting rescued from sinking ships half way then going on hungers strike till we let the complete their voyage or presenting tearful pleas from little girls to try and make us fold.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Nick » October 28, 2009, 5:52 pm

Northern Raider wrote:There are bucket loads of countries between Australia and the places these people are fleeing from. Why do they bypass all those to come here? If their priroity is to escape persecution in their homeland then surely they cannot be selective about their destination. Once they are out they should be happy. Not getting rescued from sinking ships half way then going on hungers strike till we let the complete their voyage or presenting tearful pleas from little girls to try and make us fold.
Because Rudd gives them a sweet deal if they make it here :)

BTW on a slightly related note, we started a guy at work today on the machines who spent time at Christmas island... nice chap from what i could tell, which is not much given he has terrible english... no doubt my company is paying him absolute peanuts to stack boxes, bloke didnt stop smiling all day, even when we were laughin at the poor fool for trying to operate a pallet jack... looked like he was trying to root the bleeding thing

yep, slow work day :lol:
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greeneyed wrote:Sheens was brought in to build the Cowboys and Tigers. He did both, bringing one a premiership, despite the many injury ridden years of his key playmaker.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Manbush » November 3, 2009, 2:42 pm

Northern Raider wrote:There are bucket loads of countries between Australia and the places these people are fleeing from. Why do they bypass all those to come here? If their priroity is to escape persecution in their homeland then surely they cannot be selective about their destination. Once they are out they should be happy. Not getting rescued from sinking ships half way then going on hungers strike till we let the complete their voyage or presenting tearful pleas from little girls to try and make us fold.
the fact many fly to Indo and get boats from there shows it's not only about escaping persecution, they needlessly risk theirs and their childrens lives by trying to get to Australia when they have already escaped the dangers at home
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by dreaming09 » November 4, 2009, 11:21 am

I've read most of the arguments about humanity and how greatful they are, how good they are to work with and so on. But my patients is wearing thin with the people who won't get off the Oceanic Viking, I say tell them to get off in Indonesia or we take you back to Sri Lanka. It's one thing to make it into Australian waters and be taken to Christmas Island its another to make a call for help when in Indo waters and in good faith the Australian authorities pick them up only to be held to ransom so to speak. They caught the wrong boat and the captain of the boat played the wrong hand.

I don't have a problem when you get middle eastern people migrating to a Western country and wanting to keep all their values, my concern is the next and the next generations born here when they are stuck between east and western values. What value system do these kids follow and does it make the gap bigger?
yes they have nice food and I chose middle east because these are some of the boat people that have come.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Sterlk » November 4, 2009, 11:43 am

marky mark wrote:my patients is wearing thin
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*shudder*

:lol:
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Michael » November 4, 2009, 11:57 am

marky mark wrote:I my concern is the next and the next generations born here when they are stuck between east and western values. What value system do these kids follow and does it make the gap bigger?
That assumes that there is a great difference between the two. I would argue that basically all humans have essentially the same set of values - I mean, the ten commandments can basically be summarised as 'don't be a dick', and I think all people generally aspire to that regardless of religion. Its only Islamic extremists that make it seem like there is a huge gulf between the two, just like Christian extremists.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Sterlk » November 4, 2009, 12:11 pm

Just saw that John Howard got a shoe thrown at him like Bush did, apparantly it was a pretty pathetic throw and the shoe didn't even get close. :lol:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009 ... 732599.htm
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Northern Raider » November 4, 2009, 1:47 pm

Sterlk wrote:Just saw that John Howard got a shoe thrown at him like Bush did, apparantly it was a pretty pathetic throw and the shoe didn't even get close. :lol:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009 ... 732599.htm
Always makes me think of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D5oKEVqQJg
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Manbush » November 4, 2009, 2:13 pm

Michael wrote:
marky mark wrote:I my concern is the next and the next generations born here when they are stuck between east and western values. What value system do these kids follow and does it make the gap bigger?
That assumes that there is a great difference between the two. I would argue that basically all humans have essentially the same set of values - I mean, the ten commandments can basically be summarised as 'don't be a dick', and I think all people generally aspire to that regardless of religion. Its only Islamic extremists that make it seem like there is a huge gulf between the two, just like Christian extremists.
Yes and no, i think the cause behind the Cronulla riot is an example of when cultures can clash, 2nd generations not fitting in with society
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Michael » November 4, 2009, 2:26 pm

manbush wrote:
Michael wrote:
marky mark wrote:I my concern is the next and the next generations born here when they are stuck between east and western values. What value system do these kids follow and does it make the gap bigger?
That assumes that there is a great difference between the two. I would argue that basically all humans have essentially the same set of values - I mean, the ten commandments can basically be summarised as 'don't be a dick', and I think all people generally aspire to that regardless of religion. Its only Islamic extremists that make it seem like there is a huge gulf between the two, just like Christian extremists.
Yes and no, i think the cause behind the Cronulla riot is an example of when cultures can clash, 2nd generations not fitting in with society
Wait - you think that the Muslims were more to blame for the Cronulla riots? Ok sure, they beat up a lifeguard, which is obviously a terrible thing to do, but a pretty isolated incident. And thousands of 'Australians' responded in the most disgusting way possible - seriously, that was the worst thing I've seen in my lifetime.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Nick » November 4, 2009, 4:14 pm

Michael wrote:
manbush wrote:
Michael wrote:
marky mark wrote:I my concern is the next and the next generations born here when they are stuck between east and western values. What value system do these kids follow and does it make the gap bigger?
That assumes that there is a great difference between the two. I would argue that basically all humans have essentially the same set of values - I mean, the ten commandments can basically be summarised as 'don't be a dick', and I think all people generally aspire to that regardless of religion. Its only Islamic extremists that make it seem like there is a huge gulf between the two, just like Christian extremists.
Yes and no, i think the cause behind the Cronulla riot is an example of when cultures can clash, 2nd generations not fitting in with society
Wait - you think that the Muslims were more to blame for the Cronulla riots? Ok sure, they beat up a lifeguard, which is obviously a terrible thing to do, but a pretty isolated incident. And thousands of 'Australians' responded in the most disgusting way possible - seriously, that was the worst thing I've seen in my lifetime.
With all due respect mate, Muslim gangs had handed out a number of beatings, the life guard was simply the last straw. Its not like one bloke got bashed and everyone got up in arms about it. Muslim gangs had been terrorising the area and its locals for years. Does that excuse the disgusting actions by the mob? No. But it was hardly an isolated incident of innocent people being bashed by muslims in the Cronulla area. Or vise verca for that matter
Tensions had been boiling between the two for YEARS prior to the riot
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Northern Raider » November 4, 2009, 5:11 pm

Raider_69 wrote:
Michael wrote:
manbush wrote:
Michael wrote:
marky mark wrote:I my concern is the next and the next generations born here when they are stuck between east and western values. What value system do these kids follow and does it make the gap bigger?
That assumes that there is a great difference between the two. I would argue that basically all humans have essentially the same set of values - I mean, the ten commandments can basically be summarised as 'don't be a dick', and I think all people generally aspire to that regardless of religion. Its only Islamic extremists that make it seem like there is a huge gulf between the two, just like Christian extremists.
Yes and no, i think the cause behind the Cronulla riot is an example of when cultures can clash, 2nd generations not fitting in with society
Wait - you think that the Muslims were more to blame for the Cronulla riots? Ok sure, they beat up a lifeguard, which is obviously a terrible thing to do, but a pretty isolated incident. And thousands of 'Australians' responded in the most disgusting way possible - seriously, that was the worst thing I've seen in my lifetime.
With all due respect mate, Muslim gangs had handed out a number of beatings, the life guard was simply the last straw. Its like one bloke got bashed and everyone got up in arms about it. Muslim gangs had been terrorising the area and its locals for years. Does that excuse the disgusting actions by the mob? No. But it was hardly an isolated incident of innocent people being bashed by muslims in the Cronulla area. Or vise verca for that matter
Tensions had been boiling between the two for YEARS prior to the riot
That was my take on it to.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Manbush » November 4, 2009, 10:32 pm

Michael i wasnt saying they were more to blame, but their actions over a sustained period was the reason the riot broke out, they had had enough, they chose the wrong option obviously, but something had to be done. The point was some 2nd, 3rd generation immigrants who feel out of place in our society due to a clash of cultures, usually from lower socio economic backgrounds, feel victimised and lash out. (69 also had been a lot of trouble with how they were treating white women on the beaches)

Out of interest did anyone else listen to the police frequency during it, some of the **** was insane, lol and the Leb rap that came out after it :lol:
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by glassandahalf » November 5, 2009, 4:10 pm

Raider_69 wrote: With all due respect mate, Muslim gangs had handed out a number of beatings, the life guard was simply the last straw.
Can I just quickly interject to say that they were gangs of middle eastern youths that were accused of starting the ruckus, not gangs of muslim youths. There are a large percentage of them who are religiously Christian, and any of them parading around those beaches causing the trouble were most certainly not acting with their faith as a primary adjective.

It would be wrong to have labelled the rioters as Ignorant Vigilate Christians just because they were white. Ignorant Vigilante Youths so much more appropriate.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Nick » November 5, 2009, 5:34 pm

glassandahalf wrote:
Raider_69 wrote: With all due respect mate, Muslim gangs had handed out a number of beatings, the life guard was simply the last straw.
Can I just quickly interject to say that they were gangs of middle eastern youths that were accused of starting the ruckus, not gangs of muslim youths. There are a large percentage of them who are religiously Christian, and any of them parading around those beaches causing the trouble were most certainly not acting with their faith as a primary adjective.

It would be wrong to have labelled the rioters as Ignorant Vigilate Christians just because they were white. Ignorant Vigilante Youths so much more appropriate.
Fair call mate
100% right, bad choice of words from my end
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Manbush » November 24, 2009, 11:03 am

Reading how Englands climate change research centres computers got hacked the other day, found emails from leading climate change experts stating how that can't prove climate change is real and how they're prepared to change data to suit their arguement. This is the problem when governments are only prepared to fund research that suits their point of view, scientists integrity goes out the windows for the almighty dollar and we are fed ideas as facts.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Northern Raider » November 24, 2009, 12:42 pm

I heard some reports on it. Does it mean Penny Wong will retreat to the back bench if her ministerial portfolio is proven to be based on a myth? :hmmm
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Manbush » November 24, 2009, 1:40 pm

Northern Raider wrote:I heard some reports on it. Does it mean Penny Wong will retreat to the back bench if her ministerial portfolio is proven to be based on a myth? :hmmm
That's the thing, governments have already invested too much time and money on it, even if they discover its a myth I doubt they'll ever admit it
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Northern Raider » November 24, 2009, 2:47 pm

Nobody is biting yet. A bit dissapointing given its a slow day on the GH. I've been away for away for 4 days then logged back in to find there is nothing new on the entire forum. Was hoping a bit of spirited debate in the politics thread could spice things up but doesn't seem to be happening. :(
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Manbush » November 24, 2009, 6:08 pm

I wasnt after a bite for once, but its a perfect example of why you cant trust government funded researchers, they are paid to find answers that fit in with what the government wants to hear, not to find out the actual facts.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by gangrenous » November 24, 2009, 7:35 pm

manbush wrote:its a perfect example of why you cant trust government funded researchers, they are paid to find answers that fit in with what the government wants to hear, not to find out the actual facts.
I think you might want to add "in politically sensitive areas" to your sentence and even then it's a bit of a rough generalisation.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Manbush » November 24, 2009, 8:38 pm

gangrenous wrote:
manbush wrote:its a perfect example of why you cant trust government funded researchers, they are paid to find answers that fit in with what the government wants to hear, not to find out the actual facts.
I think you might want to add "in politically sensitive areas" to your sentence and even then it's a bit of a rough generalisation.

Good point mate, some do great work, but on the polical issues i dont trust a word, climate change, drugs etc with good reason
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by yeh raiders » November 25, 2009, 10:31 am

Fingers crossed Turnbullshlt is booted out today :cmon

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by yeh raiders » November 25, 2009, 12:21 pm

Damn :rant he's retaining his leadership

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Northern Raider » November 25, 2009, 1:43 pm

A bit pointless for the coalition to boot Turnbull at this stage. they are not going to win the next election so let him be the sacrificial lamb for the time being. They can decide who they want to be the next prime minister prior to the following election when the country is feeling the pain of $100b of government debt.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Nick » November 25, 2009, 4:54 pm

Northern Raider wrote:A bit pointless for the coalition to boot Turnbull at this stage. they are not going to win the next election so let him be the sacrificial lamb for the time being. They can decide who they want to be the next prime minister prior to the following election when the country is feeling the pain of $100b of government debt.
Should have been Dr Nelson and Turnbull for our next PM... Libs screwed the pooch and brought in turnbull too early. Should have ridden out the storm with the Doc
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by mick63 » November 25, 2009, 8:21 pm

yeh raiders wrote:Damn :rant he's retaining his leadership
Imo Turnbull is the most credible politician in Canberra,because he isnt a party hack.
A self made man who is giving back to his country.
Personally i reckon he would be an outstanding PM.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by yeh raiders » November 25, 2009, 8:41 pm

mick63 wrote:
yeh raiders wrote:Damn :rant he's retaining his leadership
Imo Turnbull is the most credible politician in Canberra,because he isnt a party hack.
A self made man who is giving back to his country.
Personally i reckon he would be an outstanding PM.
I admire his work as a businessmen, however i'm more concerned with this ETS Tax rubbish.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Dr. Alex » November 25, 2009, 10:45 pm

The Italian Prime Minister allegedly bedded 20 prostitutes in one night... :lol:

Really puts Mike Rann's efforts to shame.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by thickos » November 27, 2009, 8:43 am

mick63 wrote:
yeh raiders wrote:Damn :rant he's retaining his leadership
Imo Turnbull is the most credible politician in Canberra,because he isnt a party hack.
A self made man who is giving back to his country.
Personally i reckon he would be an outstanding PM.
Well said, totally agree. It's all over for him though, sadly.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Northern Raider » November 27, 2009, 10:52 am

thickos wrote:
mick63 wrote:
yeh raiders wrote:Damn :rant he's retaining his leadership
Imo Turnbull is the most credible politician in Canberra,because he isnt a party hack.
A self made man who is giving back to his country.
Personally i reckon he would be an outstanding PM.
Well said, totally agree. It's all over for him though, sadly.
You can be a credible politician or a successful one. Not both. ;)

I'm inclined to agree with the coalition rebels on the issue however. I still don't understand why Australia needs an ETS in place prior to Copenhagen and I still don't know how an ETS is supposed to reduce carbon emissions.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by yeh raiders » November 27, 2009, 4:30 pm

Pretty sure it a system by which the amount of GEE a company can emit, is based on permits. These permits can be sold/traded from company to company allowing for differing amounts of carbon to be produced. How the heck can you measure the amount of carbon produced from company to company :?
It's guaranteed to cost jobs, for little (if any :doubt: ) positive impact on climate.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by mick63 » November 27, 2009, 6:38 pm

Northern Raider wrote:
thickos wrote:
mick63 wrote:
yeh raiders wrote:Damn :rant he's retaining his leadership
Imo Turnbull is the most credible politician in Canberra,because he isnt a party hack.
A self made man who is giving back to his country.
Personally i reckon he would be an outstanding PM.
Well said, totally agree. It's all over for him though, sadly.
You can be a credible politician or a successful one. Not both. ;)

I'm inclined to agree with the coalition rebels on the issue however. I still don't understand why Australia needs an ETS in place prior to Copenhagen and I still don't know how an ETS is supposed to reduce carbon emissions.
Bob Brown and Ted Mack come to mind as successful and credible politicians.Don Dunstan and Wayne Goss also.

But it seems that unless you come through via the party machine your supporters are gunna run for cover the first sign of trouble.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Northern Raider » November 27, 2009, 9:51 pm

yeh raiders wrote:Pretty sure it a system by which the amount of GEE a company can emit, is based on permits. These permits can be sold/traded from company to company allowing for differing amounts of carbon to be produced. How the heck can you measure the amount of carbon produced from company to company :?
It's guaranteed to cost jobs, for little (if any :doubt: ) positive impact on climate.
Glorified tax IMO. Companies that produce carbon emissions have to pay a fee based on the volume they produce. I fail to see how that is going to affect global warming.
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