The Politics Thread 2015

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T_R
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by T_R » December 6, 2015, 6:25 pm

reptar wrote:I'm not not licking toads!
Well, there's no explanation for you, then.
Image

Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Seiffert82 » December 7, 2015, 5:04 am

Green eyed Mick wrote:
T_R wrote:I shudder to imagine the spit-flecked frenzy that Seiffert's post is going to drive our resident stoners, GEM and Manbush into, but for the record I tend to agree with what he said. The idea that 'well, we haven't managed to stop it, so we should just give up' doesn't make that much sense to me.
I don't think we should give up but we need to pick our battles. Not all drugs are the same and we need to prioritise our policing where it can have the greatest impact. That means going after organised crime gangs not teenagers at a music festival. We also need to spend money on treating ice and heroin users rather than imprisoning them. That means creating safe places where drugs users can go for help where they won't be hauled before a court and slapped with a big fine and life altering criminal convictions.
Seiffert82 wrote:Alcohol is legal and causes more fatalities per year than drugs. Smoking cigarettes is also legal and is the biggest cause of preventable death in Australia. It also costs our economy over $30 billion per year in lost productivity and health care expenditure.

Legalising stuff that is bad for your health isn't the answer, just like making guns available via some half arsed licencing laws does not reduce the number of homicides in a country. Banning automatics and reducing the supply of guns altogether does.

The primary driver behind drug related deaths is cultural attitudes to risk taking by young people. This may sound harsh, but if a small number of kids die each year because they make retarded decisions with respect to drugs, or other risky behaviours, then so be it. I don't want my 7 year old daughter to grow up in a society where she and her friends can buy party drugs over the counter and then jump in a car and kill themselves because the driver is high. It's bad enough already with alcohol.

The solution to the problem isn't changes to laws and regulations - it's education with increased resources into rehabilitation and support programs.
You make a very good point, unfortunately you seem to have missed it.

What we have done with guns in Australia is exactly what we should do with drugs. We didn't ban guns. The guns with the greatest potential for harm were banned altogether and those deemed less dangerous remained available under strict new regulations.

If we were a smarter country we would do the same with drugs. We would allow pill testing kits to be sold legally. We would regulate and restrict the sale of cannabis to medical patients and recreational users over 21. We could probably do the same with organic psychedelics. We would continue to pursue amphetamines, heroin, cocaine and other drugs more dangerous than alcohol with the full force of the law, targeting suppliers rather than users.
Firstly, I support the legalisation of cannabinoid products for medical purposes after they have been properly tested - if there is reasonable evidence of their benefits, so I do agree with you there.

I don't know much about pill testing kit technology, other than it can detect the active substance contained in the tablet and some cutting agents. As far as I'm aware it won't protect people from overdosing (as has been the case in recent events) or from being poisoned if the drug has been laced with something that is undetectable. Also, making these kits available will only help the 'responsible' and well prepared drug taker - not some poor kid in a club or at a festival with $20 in his pocket who is happy to take whatever gets dished up by some random dealer at the time.

Sure, make the kits available, but I doubt they will do a damn thing to prevent the types of deaths we've seen in the last few weeks. Nor do I think most drug takers will spend their hard earned buying such kits - but I could be wrong. Either way there is also a risk they give the pill poppers a false sense of security. However I'm OK with the idea of putting them on the pharmacy shelves - they might help a couple of people and the money spent on them might take a few dollars out of the pockets of young kids who might otherwise use it to buy more drugs and OD on something that's no good for them.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Manbush » December 7, 2015, 7:47 am

Seiffert82 wrote: The solution to the problem isn't changes to laws and regulations - it's education with increased resources into rehabilitation and support programs.
So basically the same path that's been tried and failed but with even more money thrown at it?

People are going to continue taking drugs regardless of education and if educated honestly could actually start taking them, so instead of wasting money on a war that won't be won how about turn it around, make it safer for the user while making the government a fortune instead of costing countless lives and billions of dollars.
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Manbush » December 7, 2015, 8:02 am

Seiffert82 wrote: I don't want my 7 year old daughter to grow up in a society where she and her friends can buy party drugs over the counter and then jump in a car and kill themselves because the driver is high. It's bad enough already with alcohol.
You are aware countries that have loosened laws don't show an increase in drug use so buying over the counter (where would be safer as quality is known) won't increase the risks to your daughter.

Now surely you realise there's a good chance your daughter and her friends will experiment when they get older so do you want it to be safe as possible for them or keep the current dangers. If you're counting on drug education to keep them away from the stuff I should point out I had it in primary school and high school, even as a kid a lot of what they were saying didn't make sense and was obviously propaganda, kids aren't stupid if you lie on one thing how do they believe the rest.
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Seiffert82 » December 7, 2015, 7:22 pm

Manbush wrote:
Seiffert82 wrote: I don't want my 7 year old daughter to grow up in a society where she and her friends can buy party drugs over the counter and then jump in a car and kill themselves because the driver is high. It's bad enough already with alcohol.
You are aware countries that have loosened laws don't show an increase in drug use so buying over the counter (where would be safer as quality is known) won't increase the risks to your daughter.

Now surely you realise there's a good chance your daughter and her friends will experiment when they get older so do you want it to be safe as possible for them or keep the current dangers. If you're counting on drug education to keep them away from the stuff I should point out I had it in primary school and high school, even as a kid a lot of what they were saying didn't make sense and was obviously propaganda, kids aren't stupid if you lie on one thing how do they believe the rest.
Who knows what path my daughter will take, but I can tell you now she has her head screwed on pretty straight. She will make her own decisions, but I'll be doing everything in my power to make sure she grows up surrounded by a good group of friends who help her make good decisions. I want her to have fun growing up but I also want her to know she doesn't need to be stoned and risk her life taking dodgy pills to have a good time.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by T_R » December 7, 2015, 8:43 pm

Aaaaaaaaand we're back onto drugs.
Image

Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Schifty » December 7, 2015, 8:46 pm

Can't we just have an official bong thread?

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Green eyed Mick » December 7, 2015, 8:52 pm

So now the US has been accused of bombing a Syrian Army base killing 3 and injuring 12. ISIS must be over the moon given NATO actions over the last few weeks.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Green eyed Mick » December 7, 2015, 8:53 pm

Schifty wrote:Can't we just have an official bong thread?
Perhaps a vaping thread would be more appropriate for the times.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Manbush » December 7, 2015, 10:22 pm

Seiffert82 wrote:Who knows what path my daughter will take, but I can tell you now she has her head screwed on pretty straight. She will make her own decisions, but I'll be doing everything in my power to make sure she grows up surrounded by a good group of friends who help her make good decisions. I want her to have fun growing up but I also want her to know she doesn't need to be stoned and risk her life taking dodgy pills to have a good time.
Even the best can partake at some point just need to look through scientists, world leaders, inventors and Nobel prize winners that have, some of which give credit to drugs for their inspiration, hell Steve Jobs claims LSD as one of the most important things he ever did in his life.

People will take them for a variety of reasons, fun, inspiration, religious purposes and some just use them as a crutch, fact is they always will and your "dodgy pills" comment is why legalisation makes sense, make it safer for them, as long as alcohol is legal it makes a joke of the law.
T_R wrote:Aaaaaaaaand we're back onto drugs.
I'm out just for you mate, cost ya a beer though :lol:
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Seiffert82 » December 7, 2015, 10:39 pm

Manbush wrote:
Seiffert82 wrote:Who knows what path my daughter will take, but I can tell you now she has her head screwed on pretty straight. She will make her own decisions, but I'll be doing everything in my power to make sure she grows up surrounded by a good group of friends who help her make good decisions. I want her to have fun growing up but I also want her to know she doesn't need to be stoned and risk her life taking dodgy pills to have a good time.
Even the best can partake at some point just need to look through scientists, world leaders, inventors and Nobel prize winners that have, some of which give credit to drugs for their inspiration, hell Steve Jobs claims LSD as one of the most important things he ever did in his life.

People will take them for a variety of reasons, fun, inspiration, religious purposes and some just use them as a crutch, fact is they always will and your "dodgy pills" comment is why legalisation makes sense, make it safer for them, as long as alcohol is legal it makes a joke of the law.
With all due respect to Steve Jobs and the litany of stoned Nobel Prize winners of the world, what I actually care more about are the young people who unnecessarily died from overdoses at music festivals, destroying their families.

I hate Apple products by the way. :)

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Manbush » December 7, 2015, 10:49 pm

As we all do (care about the ones who unnecessarily die), we just have different thoughts how to save them.
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by T_R » December 8, 2015, 6:08 am

Manbush wrote:
I'm out just for you mate, cost ya a beer though :lol:
Why don't we ever have a beer? Even Marko came up and broke bread. You live just down the road.

You're a savage, Manbush.
Image

Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Seiffert82 » December 8, 2015, 6:16 am

Manbush wrote:As we all do (care about the ones who unnecessarily die), we just have different thoughts how to save them.
Fair enough. Using alcohol as a model, I find it hard to believe that legalising the product they died from overdosing on is a sound strategy, but that's just me. I also think making drug testing kits available won't do a damn thing.

These recent deaths were adults in their 20's who made their own decision to take too many drugs and kill themselves. Short of stopping the supply of drugs altogether (which will never happen), nothing will prevent people making these decisions in life. You can only educate them of the potential consequences and then leave them to their own free will to make decisions as to what they do with their lives.

For every Steve Jobs of the world there are probably 10,000 teenagers in a casket, six feet under. I just don't want my daughter to be one of them.

There is no silver bullet for this problem - we can only support and educate our kids to grow up with confidence that they don't need to get stoned to have fun at a party, club or music festival.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Manbush » December 8, 2015, 8:02 am

The reasons for overdosing though are mostly due to being illegal, unknown purity, extra additives, sniffer dogs at the gate so consumers take the extra in their pockets instead of risking arrest, afraid to seek help when something goes wrong, it's the laws that are playing a huge part in killing them, regulate and control ingredients and they become so much safer overnight, just as alcohol was even more dangerous during prohibition.

The testing kits have been a success other places in the world at music festivals which is why the Sex Party were pushing for them at festivals here.

For the 10,000 teenagers in a casket there'd be billions of adults who just live a normal life.

We can't educate them honestly they don't need to be stoned to have fun at a party etc when our culture includes the celebration of an even more dangerous drug, if you tell your daughter about the evils of drugs while you're having a beer don't expect her to trust what you're telling her, scientific community is basically unanimous alcohol is one of the worst.
Last edited by Manbush on December 8, 2015, 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Manbush » December 8, 2015, 8:03 am

T_R wrote:
Manbush wrote:
I'm out just for you mate, cost ya a beer though :lol:
Why don't we ever have a beer? Even Marko came up and broke bread. You live just down the road.

You're a savage, Manbush.
Hey I blame your jet setting ways, always too busy scamming some Nigerian to have a beer with the common folk, that and I never know when you're actually in Brisbane.
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by dubby » December 8, 2015, 11:48 am

T_R wrote:
Manbush wrote:
I'm out just for you mate, cost ya a beer though Image
Why don't we ever have a beer? Even Marko came up and broke bread. You live just down the road.

You're a savage, Manbush.
We never had a beer and I lived 20 minutes from you
Image
Image

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Schifty » December 8, 2015, 8:30 pm

dubby wrote:
T_R wrote:
Manbush wrote:
I'm out just for you mate, cost ya a beer though Image
Why don't we ever have a beer? Even Marko came up and broke bread. You live just down the road.

You're a savage, Manbush.
We never had a beer and I lived 20 minutes from you
Image
Guess he has selective taste in who he dines with.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by dubby » December 8, 2015, 8:33 pm

Image

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Manbush » December 8, 2015, 8:37 pm

Schifty wrote:
dubby wrote:
T_R wrote:
Manbush wrote:
I'm out just for you mate, cost ya a beer though Image
Why don't we ever have a beer? Even Marko came up and broke bread. You live just down the road.

You're a savage, Manbush.
We never had a beer and I lived 20 minutes from you
Image
Guess he has selective taste in who he dines with.
Don't think you're getting off lightly for having a beer with TR and not me while you were in town :rant
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Schifty » December 8, 2015, 8:41 pm

Manbush wrote: Don't think you're getting off lightly for having a beer with TR and not me while you were in town :rant
But we did meet, you tried to get me to sign a petition to make pot legal in Queen Street Mall.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Green eyed Mick » December 8, 2015, 11:47 pm

Interesting position from a former Supreme court Judge.

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/drugs-are ... libh4.html

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Green eyed Mick » December 9, 2015, 11:42 am

Canada looking to become the first major western economy to fully legalise and regulate cannabis.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by papabear » December 9, 2015, 3:04 pm

good article GEM

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Manbush » December 9, 2015, 3:37 pm

Schifty wrote:
Manbush wrote: Don't think you're getting off lightly for having a beer with TR and not me while you were in town :rant
But we did meet, you tried to get me to sign a petition to make pot legal in Queen Street Mall.
**** was I that baked I wanted it legal in the Queen st mall where even smoking is illegal :shock:
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Professor » December 9, 2015, 4:22 pm

Manbush wrote:
Schifty wrote:
Manbush wrote: Don't think you're getting off lightly for having a beer with TR and not me while you were in town :rant
But we did meet, you tried to get me to sign a petition to make pot legal in Queen Street Mall.
**** was I that baked I wanted it legal in the Queen st mall where even smoking is illegal :shock:
All signs point towards yes

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by -TW- » December 9, 2015, 6:08 pm

Why the **** is the media giving Abbott so much air time?

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Green eyed Mick » December 9, 2015, 9:33 pm

Lenny Leonard wrote:Why the **** is the media giving Abbott so much air time?
Probably because Abbott is presently a far bigger threat to Turnbull remaining PM than Shorten.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Manbush » December 19, 2015, 9:16 am

A compilation of NSWs new anti marijuana campaign, go Stoner Sloth

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The Politics Thread

Post by Schifty » December 19, 2015, 9:22 am

Seriously what in the **** was that :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Dr Zaius » December 19, 2015, 9:42 am

I think taht if I looked like that, I'd probably smoke a whole bunch of weed as well.
RIP Greenbits: 2007-2014

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Schifty » December 19, 2015, 2:01 pm

so http://www.stonersloth.com.au is the website by the government, while stonersloth.com is the home of an online weed retailer.

Quality work!

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Manbush » December 19, 2015, 3:16 pm

Yep the ads coping a hiding wonder how much money was wasted on that. I'm sure it was an inside job, a stoner recommended it for a laugh and the government took it seriously.
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Green eyed Mick » December 19, 2015, 4:48 pm

What a waste of money. If this ad prevents 1 single person from using weed I will be very surprised.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Dr Zaius » December 19, 2015, 4:49 pm

But think of all the sloths that it is saving.
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