The Politics Thread 2015

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Seiffert82 » November 26, 2015, 5:56 am

Pigman wrote:Classic SB
Defends the indefensible
Gets called out for it, says he's out


A tradition as old as the GH itself
:lol:

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Green eyed Mick » November 26, 2015, 8:11 am

Schifty wrote:Seems like Syrian gov forces found the other Russian pilot.

That guy needs to buy lottery tickets.
It definitely looks like they were shot down in Syria and now Russia has accused the Turks of a premeditated strike.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Green eyed Mick » November 26, 2015, 9:21 am

Image

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Schifty » November 29, 2015, 6:37 pm

Truck driver from #Hungary tries to run over #refugees and #migrants in #Calais. Films himself and posts it online. #EU

https://twitter.com/LeilZahra/status/670769534513598465

What a world we live in...

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Schifty » November 30, 2015, 7:35 am

letter from some men on Manus island to the Australian government. Happy Monday people.. [ Image

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Schifty » December 2, 2015, 9:38 pm

"ISIS and these kinds of extremists are a death cult. We’re a life cult." U2 heads to Paris http://nyti.ms/1QdKVW7

:|

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Manbush » December 2, 2015, 11:47 pm

At least Isis didn't hijack everyone's iPhones without their permission!
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by papabear » December 3, 2015, 3:17 pm


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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Schifty » December 3, 2015, 7:57 pm

So UK parliament voted to start bombing Syria.

It's one thing to make that tough call, but to see MPs cheering that decision..

Who in the **** cheers going to war? Well it seems members of both major parties over there..

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by T_R » December 3, 2015, 9:32 pm

Sit down and watch these.

Best thing that happened in Australian politics this year - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-03/h ... ps/6999664
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Schifty » December 3, 2015, 10:06 pm

I can't believe I missed this story :lol:

Police separate Reclaim Australia protesters during infighting at barbecue

RECLAIM Australia’s own supporters had to be separated by police as tensions boiled over following yesterday’s rally in Melton.

But it was members of the far right wing Reclaim Australia group who appeared to turn on each other after the rally came to an end.

Read more: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/nation ... 6fc7391dae

Someone must have brought some tabbouleh to kick it all off

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by T_R » December 4, 2015, 11:00 am

A friend of a friend wrote this to his local MP in the UK in regards Syrian bombing.

There is no better explanation of the situation in the Middle East. Seriously, read it.



Want to bomb them? Which/who?

President Assad ( who is bad ) is a nasty guy who got so nasty his people rebelled and the Rebels ( who are good ) started winning ( Hurrah!).
But then some of the rebels turned a bit nasty and are now called Islamic State ( who are definitely bad!) and some continued to support democracy ( who are still good.)

So the Americans ( who are good ) started bombing Islamic State ( who are bad ) and giving arms to the Syrian Rebels ( who are good ) so they could fight Assad ( who is still bad ) which was good.
By the way, there is a breakaway state in the north run by the Kurds who want to fight IS ( which is a good thing ) but the Turkish authorities think they are bad, so we have to say they are bad whilst secretly thinking they're good and giving them guns to fight IS (which is good) but that is another matter.

Getting back to Syria.
So President Putin ( who is bad, cos he invaded Crimea and the Ukraine and killed lots of folks including that nice Russian man in London with polonium poisoned sushi ) has decided to back Assad ( who is still bad ) by attacking IS ( who are also bad ) which is sort of a good thing?

But Putin ( still bad ) thinks the Syrian Rebels ( who are good ) are also bad, and so he bombs them too, much to the annoyance of the Americans ( who are good ) who are busy backing and arming the rebels ( who are also good).

Now Iran ( who used to be bad, but now they have agreed not to build any nuclear weapons and bomb Israel are now good ) are going to provide ground troops to support Assad ( still bad ) as are the Russians ( bad ) who now have ground troops and aircraft in Syria.

So a Coalition of Assad ( still bad ) Putin ( extra bad ) and the Iranians ( good, but in a bad sort of way ) are going to attack IS ( who are bad ) which is a good thing, but also the Syrian Rebels ( who are good ) which is bad.

Now the British ( obviously good, except that nice Mr Corbyn in the corduroy jacket, who is probably bad ) and the Americans ( also good ) cannot attack Assad ( still bad ) for fear of upsetting Putin ( bad ) and Iran ( good / bad) and now they have to accept that Assad might not be that bad after all compared to IS ( who are super bad).

So Assad ( bad ) is now probably good, being better than IS ( but let’s face it, drinking your own wee is better than IS so no real choice there ) and since Putin and Iran are also fighting IS that may now make them Good. America ( still Good ) will find it hard to arm a group of rebels being attacked by the Russians for fear of upsetting Mr Putin ( now good ) and that nice mad Ayatollah in Iran ( also Good ) and so they may be forced to say that the Rebels are now Bad, or at the very least abandon them to their fate. This will lead most of them to flee to Turkey and on to Europe or join IS ( still the only constantly bad group).

To Sunni Muslims, an attack by Shia Muslims ( Assad and Iran ) backed by Russians will be seen as something of a Holy War, and the ranks of IS will now be seen by the Sunnis as the only Jihadis fighting in the Holy War and hence many Muslims will now see IS as Good ( Doh!.)

Sunni Muslims will also see the lack of action by Britain and America in support of their Sunni rebel brothers as something of a betrayal ( mmm.might have a point.) and hence we will be seen as Bad.

So now we have America ( now bad ) and Britain ( also bad ) providing limited support to Sunni Rebels ( bad ) many of whom are looking to IS ( Good / bad ) for support against Assad ( now good ) who, along with Iran ( also Good) and Putin ( also, now, unbelievably, Good ) are attempting to retake the country Assad used to run before all this started?
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Toviii » December 4, 2015, 11:22 am

Very well put.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by The Rickman » December 4, 2015, 12:57 pm

It's all about gas, apparently.

http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-eas ... b63a9afb74

This actually makes the most sense about the Syrian "crisis" out of anything I've read or heard to date.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Dr Zaius » December 4, 2015, 9:36 pm

T_R wrote:A friend of a friend wrote this to his local MP in the UK in regards Syrian bombing.

There is no better explanation of the situation in the Middle East. Seriously, read it.



Want to bomb them? Which/who?

President Assad ( who is bad ) is a nasty guy who got so nasty his people rebelled and the Rebels ( who are good ) started winning ( Hurrah!).
But then some of the rebels turned a bit nasty and are now called Islamic State ( who are definitely bad!) and some continued to support democracy ( who are still good.)

So the Americans ( who are good ) started bombing Islamic State ( who are bad ) and giving arms to the Syrian Rebels ( who are good ) so they could fight Assad ( who is still bad ) which was good.
By the way, there is a breakaway state in the north run by the Kurds who want to fight IS ( which is a good thing ) but the Turkish authorities think they are bad, so we have to say they are bad whilst secretly thinking they're good and giving them guns to fight IS (which is good) but that is another matter.

Getting back to Syria.
So President Putin ( who is bad, cos he invaded Crimea and the Ukraine and killed lots of folks including that nice Russian man in London with polonium poisoned sushi ) has decided to back Assad ( who is still bad ) by attacking IS ( who are also bad ) which is sort of a good thing?

But Putin ( still bad ) thinks the Syrian Rebels ( who are good ) are also bad, and so he bombs them too, much to the annoyance of the Americans ( who are good ) who are busy backing and arming the rebels ( who are also good).

Now Iran ( who used to be bad, but now they have agreed not to build any nuclear weapons and bomb Israel are now good ) are going to provide ground troops to support Assad ( still bad ) as are the Russians ( bad ) who now have ground troops and aircraft in Syria.

So a Coalition of Assad ( still bad ) Putin ( extra bad ) and the Iranians ( good, but in a bad sort of way ) are going to attack IS ( who are bad ) which is a good thing, but also the Syrian Rebels ( who are good ) which is bad.

Now the British ( obviously good, except that nice Mr Corbyn in the corduroy jacket, who is probably bad ) and the Americans ( also good ) cannot attack Assad ( still bad ) for fear of upsetting Putin ( bad ) and Iran ( good / bad) and now they have to accept that Assad might not be that bad after all compared to IS ( who are super bad).

So Assad ( bad ) is now probably good, being better than IS ( but let’s face it, drinking your own wee is better than IS so no real choice there ) and since Putin and Iran are also fighting IS that may now make them Good. America ( still Good ) will find it hard to arm a group of rebels being attacked by the Russians for fear of upsetting Mr Putin ( now good ) and that nice mad Ayatollah in Iran ( also Good ) and so they may be forced to say that the Rebels are now Bad, or at the very least abandon them to their fate. This will lead most of them to flee to Turkey and on to Europe or join IS ( still the only constantly bad group).

To Sunni Muslims, an attack by Shia Muslims ( Assad and Iran ) backed by Russians will be seen as something of a Holy War, and the ranks of IS will now be seen by the Sunnis as the only Jihadis fighting in the Holy War and hence many Muslims will now see IS as Good ( Doh!.)

Sunni Muslims will also see the lack of action by Britain and America in support of their Sunni rebel brothers as something of a betrayal ( mmm.might have a point.) and hence we will be seen as Bad.

So now we have America ( now bad ) and Britain ( also bad ) providing limited support to Sunni Rebels ( bad ) many of whom are looking to IS ( Good / bad ) for support against Assad ( now good ) who, along with Iran ( also Good) and Putin ( also, now, unbelievably, Good ) are attempting to retake the country Assad used to run before all this started?
What a mess.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Schifty » December 4, 2015, 10:44 pm

That's a depressingly accurate reflection on just how much of a cluster**** it is over there right now.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Begbie » December 4, 2015, 11:24 pm

Just nuke the Middle East.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by T_R » December 5, 2015, 6:40 am

Begbie wrote:Just nuke the Middle East.
It seems to be the only thing that makes sense.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Schifty » December 5, 2015, 7:46 am

Meanwhile some people are panicking because a "Russian Jet" apparently flew over Vegas..

Clearly the soviets are up to something and secretly having jets take off in Santa Barbara.....


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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Schifty » December 5, 2015, 9:19 am

So Trump answer to Isis is (and I Quote) "You have to take out their families"..

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by -TW- » December 5, 2015, 9:26 am

Surely Americans aren't THAT stupid to elect that peanut...

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Green eyed Mick » December 5, 2015, 10:21 am

Schifty wrote:So Trump answer to Isis is (and I Quote) "You have to take out their families"..
So Trump's answer to ISIS is as flawed as the rest of the candidates in the US presidential race.

There are so many reasons ISIS exists and there are no simple solutions. It would be nice if there was a presidential candidate who would acknowledge this instead of pretending that bombing

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Schifty » December 5, 2015, 10:40 am

I'd say Trump easily has the most flawed solution.

The only way to have a worse one would be to drop nukes.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Schifty » December 5, 2015, 8:36 pm

Image

Yep fed need more airstrikes..

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Green eyed Mick » December 5, 2015, 10:25 pm

http://www.smh.com.au/national/man-dies ... lgfbn.html

**** when are we going to grow up and accept the fact that people take drugs and do something that might actually help.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Seiffert82 » December 6, 2015, 7:24 am

Alcohol is legal and causes more fatalities per year than drugs. Smoking cigarettes is also legal and is the biggest cause of preventable death in Australia. It also costs our economy over $30 billion per year in lost productivity and health care expenditure.

Legalising stuff that is bad for your health isn't the answer, just like making guns available via some half arsed licencing laws does not reduce the number of homicides in a country. Banning automatics and reducing the supply of guns altogether does.

The primary driver behind drug related deaths is cultural attitudes to risk taking by young people. This may sound harsh, but if a small number of kids die each year because they make retarded decisions with respect to drugs, or other risky behaviours, then so be it. I don't want my 7 year old daughter to grow up in a society where she and her friends can buy party drugs over the counter and then jump in a car and kill themselves because the driver is high. It's bad enough already with alcohol.

The solution to the problem isn't changes to laws and regulations - it's education with increased resources into rehabilitation and support programs.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by dubby » December 6, 2015, 8:34 am

Well said seiffert.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by T_R » December 6, 2015, 9:18 am

I shudder to imagine the spit-flecked frenzy that Seiffert's post is going to drive our resident stoners, GEM and Manbush into, but for the record I tend to agree with what he said. The idea that 'well, we haven't managed to stop it, so we should just give up' doesn't make that much sense to me.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Schifty » December 6, 2015, 9:47 am

Schifty wrote:I'd say Trump easily has the most flawed solution.

The only way to have a worse one would be to drop nukes.
Oh...
Cruz: We'll defeat radical Islamic terrorism...carpetbomb them into oblivion..don’t know if sand can glow in dark..we’re going to find out.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Green eyed Mick » December 6, 2015, 11:14 am

T_R wrote:I shudder to imagine the spit-flecked frenzy that Seiffert's post is going to drive our resident stoners, GEM and Manbush into, but for the record I tend to agree with what he said. The idea that 'well, we haven't managed to stop it, so we should just give up' doesn't make that much sense to me.
I don't think we should give up but we need to pick our battles. Not all drugs are the same and we need to prioritise our policing where it can have the greatest impact. That means going after organised crime gangs not teenagers at a music festival. We also need to spend money on treating ice and heroin users rather than imprisoning them. That means creating safe places where drugs users can go for help where they won't be hauled before a court and slapped with a big fine and life altering criminal convictions.
Seiffert82 wrote:Alcohol is legal and causes more fatalities per year than drugs. Smoking cigarettes is also legal and is the biggest cause of preventable death in Australia. It also costs our economy over $30 billion per year in lost productivity and health care expenditure.

Legalising stuff that is bad for your health isn't the answer, just like making guns available via some half arsed licencing laws does not reduce the number of homicides in a country. Banning automatics and reducing the supply of guns altogether does.

The primary driver behind drug related deaths is cultural attitudes to risk taking by young people. This may sound harsh, but if a small number of kids die each year because they make retarded decisions with respect to drugs, or other risky behaviours, then so be it. I don't want my 7 year old daughter to grow up in a society where she and her friends can buy party drugs over the counter and then jump in a car and kill themselves because the driver is high. It's bad enough already with alcohol.

The solution to the problem isn't changes to laws and regulations - it's education with increased resources into rehabilitation and support programs.
You make a very good point, unfortunately you seem to have missed it.

What we have done with guns in Australia is exactly what we should do with drugs. We didn't ban guns. The guns with the greatest potential for harm were banned altogether and those deemed less dangerous remained available under strict new regulations.

If we were a smarter country we would do the same with drugs. We would allow pill testing kits to be sold legally. We would regulate and restrict the sale of cannabis to medical patients and recreational users over 21. We could probably do the same with organic psychedelics. We would continue to pursue amphetamines, heroin, cocaine and other drugs more dangerous than alcohol with the full force of the law, targeting suppliers rather than users.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by T_R » December 6, 2015, 12:23 pm

I hate it when GEM is reasonable and makes well-argued, entirely valid points.

This place is going to the dogs.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by gergreg » December 6, 2015, 12:57 pm

Green eyed Mick wrote:
T_R wrote:I shudder to imagine the spit-flecked frenzy that Seiffert's post is going to drive our resident stoners, GEM and Manbush into, but for the record I tend to agree with what he said. The idea that 'well, we haven't managed to stop it, so we should just give up' doesn't make that much sense to me.
I don't think we should give up but we need to pick our battles. Not all drugs are the same and we need to prioritise our policing where it can have the greatest impact. That means going after organised crime gangs not teenagers at a music festival. We also need to spend money on treating ice and heroin users rather than imprisoning them. That means creating safe places where drugs users can go for help where they won't be hauled before a court and slapped with a big fine and life altering criminal convictions.
Seiffert82 wrote:Alcohol is legal and causes more fatalities per year than drugs. Smoking cigarettes is also legal and is the biggest cause of preventable death in Australia. It also costs our economy over $30 billion per year in lost productivity and health care expenditure.

Legalising stuff that is bad for your health isn't the answer, just like making guns available via some half arsed licencing laws does not reduce the number of homicides in a country. Banning automatics and reducing the supply of guns altogether does.

The primary driver behind drug related deaths is cultural attitudes to risk taking by young people. This may sound harsh, but if a small number of kids die each year because they make retarded decisions with respect to drugs, or other risky behaviours, then so be it. I don't want my 7 year old daughter to grow up in a society where she and her friends can buy party drugs over the counter and then jump in a car and kill themselves because the driver is high. It's bad enough already with alcohol.

The solution to the problem isn't changes to laws and regulations - it's education with increased resources into rehabilitation and support programs.
You make a very good point, unfortunately you seem to have missed it.

What we have done with guns in Australia is exactly what we should do with drugs. We didn't ban guns. The guns with the greatest potential for harm were banned altogether and those deemed less dangerous remained available under strict new regulations.

If we were a smarter country we would do the same with drugs. We would allow pill testing kits to be sold legally. We would regulate and restrict the sale of cannabis to medical patients and recreational users over 21. We could probably do the same with organic psychedelics. We would continue to pursue amphetamines, heroin, cocaine and other drugs more dangerous than alcohol with the full force of the law, targeting suppliers rather than users.
Many years ago I checked myself into detox and rehab. I was the only person at either centre of my own volition. Every single other person was there because the alternative was jail. To suggest that drug users are simply thrown into jail without the opportunity to make changes is false. I do agree with most of what you are saying though.
Shoving it in your face since 2017

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Dr Zaius
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Dr Zaius » December 6, 2015, 1:10 pm

I agree with GEM
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dubby
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by dubby » December 6, 2015, 2:51 pm

Dealers go to gaol, addicts definitely need rehabilitation
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reptar
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by reptar » December 6, 2015, 6:19 pm

I'm not not licking toads!
Gina Riley: Oh, come on, John. That’s a bit old hat, the corrupt IOC delegate.
John Clarke: Old hat? Gina, in the scientific world when they see that something is happening again and again and again, repeatedly, they don’t call it old hat. They call it a pattern.

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