The Politics Thread 2016

Discuss all the events of the day

Moderator: GH Moderators

Green eyed Mick
Laurie Daley
Posts: 13410
Joined: February 26, 2010, 6:01 pm
Favourite Player: Brett Mullins
Location: Canberra :(

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by Green eyed Mick » October 13, 2016, 10:43 am

simo wrote:
greeneyed wrote:Given the plebiscite was not intended to be binding... can anyone explain what it achieves? I doubt the result would change a single parliamentarian's mind.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
it would have allowed for a genuine discussion about the facts against gay marriage, of which i assume there are thousands but people dont get a chance to air them out of fear.
The GH is a safe place to air your concerns. Name 5.

User avatar
simo
Bradley Clyde
Posts: 8593
Joined: March 12, 2013, 7:50 pm
Favourite Player: Keghead

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by simo » October 13, 2016, 10:47 am

Green eyed Mick wrote:
simo wrote:
greeneyed wrote:Given the plebiscite was not intended to be binding... can anyone explain what it achieves? I doubt the result would change a single parliamentarian's mind.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
it would have allowed for a genuine discussion about the facts against gay marriage, of which i assume there are thousands but people dont get a chance to air them out of fear.
The GH is a safe place to air your concerns. Name 5.
i assume youre new here? Hi, im simo
Dont delete this GE

Green eyed Mick
Laurie Daley
Posts: 13410
Joined: February 26, 2010, 6:01 pm
Favourite Player: Brett Mullins
Location: Canberra :(

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by Green eyed Mick » October 13, 2016, 10:54 am

simo wrote:
Green eyed Mick wrote:
simo wrote:
greeneyed wrote:Given the plebiscite was not intended to be binding... can anyone explain what it achieves? I doubt the result would change a single parliamentarian's mind.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
it would have allowed for a genuine discussion about the facts against gay marriage, of which i assume there are thousands but people dont get a chance to air them out of fear.
The GH is a safe place to air your concerns. Name 5.
i assume youre new here? Hi, im simo
You said there are thousands of reasons people don't discuss the facts against marriage equality. I will settle for 5.

I'm a reasonable person and a supporter of marriage equality. I will go first.

Reason 1. LGBTI people are people and all people have a right to be treated equally under the law.

User avatar
simo
Bradley Clyde
Posts: 8593
Joined: March 12, 2013, 7:50 pm
Favourite Player: Keghead

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by simo » October 13, 2016, 11:12 am

Green eyed Mick wrote:
simo wrote:
Green eyed Mick wrote:
simo wrote:
greeneyed wrote:Given the plebiscite was not intended to be binding... can anyone explain what it achieves? I doubt the result would change a single parliamentarian's mind.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
it would have allowed for a genuine discussion about the facts against gay marriage, of which i assume there are thousands but people dont get a chance to air them out of fear.
The GH is a safe place to air your concerns. Name 5.
i assume youre new here? Hi, im simo
You said there are thousands of reasons people don't discuss the facts against marriage equality. I will settle for 5.

I'm a reasonable person and a supporter of marriage equality. I will go first.

Reason 1. LGBTI people are people and all people have a right to be treated equally under the law.
oh mick. Mick mick mick
Dont delete this GE

User avatar
Manbush
Mal Meninga
Posts: 24636
Joined: March 14, 2008, 6:55 pm
Favourite Player: Luke Turner

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by Manbush » October 13, 2016, 11:25 am

GEM I think you'll find Simo was being sarcastic.
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

User avatar
Manbush
Mal Meninga
Posts: 24636
Joined: March 14, 2008, 6:55 pm
Favourite Player: Luke Turner

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by Manbush » October 13, 2016, 11:35 am

Green eyed Mick wrote:
The government essentially offered the LGBTI community a **** sandwich
Pretty much sums it up and can understand why the government did and are surprised they said no. Every other **** sandwich they've previously been offered under the guise of equality they've grudgingly accepted, it's good to see the community has developed the backbone (largely thanks I'm guessing to the support of the majority of Australia) to say no it's not good enough.
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

Professor
Steve Walters
Posts: 7434
Joined: August 13, 2008, 3:39 pm
Favourite Player: Bae
Location: Canberra

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by Professor » October 13, 2016, 11:38 am

You watch my educational video, mate?

User avatar
Manbush
Mal Meninga
Posts: 24636
Joined: March 14, 2008, 6:55 pm
Favourite Player: Luke Turner

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by Manbush » October 13, 2016, 11:48 am

Haha yes mate, bit simplistic an idea though when we're talking mass media advertising
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

User avatar
gangrenous
Laurie Daley
Posts: 10073
Joined: May 12, 2007, 10:42 pm

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by gangrenous » October 13, 2016, 5:28 pm

Here are my thoughts updated.

I don't think anyone in here thinks the plebiscite is the best way to Marriage Equality. I think everyone agrees a parliamentary vote is best, no?

So the Liberals have the power to go with the best option, and they don't. They offer the plebiscite as the long winding **** way to marriage equality.
Labor have the best option as their policy, but they lost the election and are now blocking the long winding **** way which appears to be the only hope for ME in the next three years.

I think that there is then far too much "I'm definitely right and you're definitely wrong" from those who are pro ME but against a plebiscite and those pro ME but for the plebiscite. There are reasonable, rational arguments in favour of both. I think it comes very much down to personal opinion/experience/network.
- If you're person A and you largely have gay friends who have been couples for years and years and just want to be married, they probably don't care about what the ACL say because they're older, they know themselves, and they're now beyond caring about the Bull. You're probably happy for the plebiscite just to get this over with.

- If you're person B and you know a gay teen who's told you that bullies have been harassing them about this, telling them their dad's voting No so that they can't marry Mr.X the principal, and putting ACL posters on their locker. Well there's not much cost to your teen friend waiting 2.5 years. You're probably in favour of ditching the plebiscite because the emotional toll and monetary cost aren't worth it.

Ultimately all of this should not be a problem. It shouldn't come down to squabbling over whether the positives of the half-rate measure outweigh the negatives. But it has, and for that I blame the Liberal party, and Malcolm Turnbull's strategy in particular. If he had the guts to tell the right to piss off before the election, he wins in a landslide and they'd find it hard to justify ousting him. Now because he offered no change the electorate didn't support him, and leaves him in a position of having to bow to the right or he will be gone.

In general I think marriage equality advocates should have more time for those who are on the other side of the plebiscite argument. They're valid reasons for both. Blaming Labor for their position is doing the same thing (although I will concede that Labor's choice of sides is probably dominantly swayed by what **** up Liberal more). More blame to go to Liberals for being stupid and or poor tacticians I say.

Let's do a parliamentary vote.

User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 25934
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Nick Cotric

The Politics Thread 2016

Post by Botman » October 13, 2016, 5:44 pm

For the most part I can agree with that post
The major area of disagreement for me is the idea that Turnbull could have just told the far right to **** off and won the election in a landslide

He would never have made it to an election to win in said landslide if he told them to **** off. He'd have been ousted for someone who was more aligned to the party's power base


Edit: and maybe Turnbull should have told them to **** off anyways and at least he'd be able to hold his head up high on the matter, but I'm not naive enough to believe politicians are any different to you or I, and they do what is best for their own careers. Turnbull insisting on a parliamentary vote would be career suicide
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;

Cranky Old Man
Chris O'Sullivan
Posts: 954
Joined: February 12, 2013, 11:11 pm
Favourite Player: Sam Backo

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by Cranky Old Man » October 13, 2016, 6:00 pm

gangrenous wrote:Here are my thoughts updated.

I don't think anyone in here thinks the plebiscite is the best way to Marriage Equality. I think everyone agrees a parliamentary vote is best, no?

So the Liberals have the power to go with the best option, and they don't. They offer the plebiscite as the long winding **** way to marriage equality.
Labor have the best option as their policy, but they lost the election and are now blocking the long winding **** way which appears to be the only hope for ME in the next three years.

I think that there is then far too much "I'm definitely right and you're definitely wrong" from those who are pro ME but against a plebiscite and those pro ME but for the plebiscite. There are reasonable, rational arguments in favour of both. I think it comes very much down to personal opinion/experience/network.
- If you're person A and you largely have gay friends who have been couples for years and years and just want to be married, they probably don't care about what the ACL say because they're older, they know themselves, and they're now beyond caring about the Bull. You're probably happy for the plebiscite just to get this over with.

- If you're person B and you know a gay teen who's told you that bullies have been harassing them about this, telling them their dad's voting No so that they can't marry Mr.X the principal, and putting ACL posters on their locker. Well there's not much cost to your teen friend waiting 2.5 years. You're probably in favour of ditching the plebiscite because the emotional toll and monetary cost aren't worth it.

Ultimately all of this should not be a problem. It shouldn't come down to squabbling over whether the positives of the half-rate measure outweigh the negatives. But it has, and for that I blame the Liberal party, and Malcolm Turnbull's strategy in particular. If he had the guts to tell the right to piss off before the election, he wins in a landslide and they'd find it hard to justify ousting him. Now because he offered no change the electorate didn't support him, and leaves him in a position of having to bow to the right or he will be gone.

In general I think marriage equality advocates should have more time for those who are on the other side of the plebiscite argument. They're valid reasons for both. Blaming Labor for their position is doing the same thing (although I will concede that Labor's choice of sides is probably dominantly swayed by what **** up Liberal more). More blame to go to Liberals for being stupid and or poor tacticians I say.

Let's do a parliamentary vote.
I fairly strongly agree with all this, with an added kicker. Plebiscites as a means of deciding legislation are wrong. Pretty much the sole justification for full time, well salaried Parliamentarians is that the time and lack of financial hardship allows them to study all the ramifications, and ultimate desirability of each piece of legislation presented and then making a decision on behalf of the electorate they represent. Allowing them to handpass any complex or contentious matter to a plebiscite where most voters tend to make decisions based on simplistic evidence or personal predjudices not necessarily based on any reputable evidence is not what the nation needs and is an abrogation of their responsibilities as Parliamentarians. If they are not up to the job they were elected to perform they should resign and allow themselves to be replaced by a competent replacement. Having a "non binding" plebiscite is even worse, it is just a hugely expensive time waster designed to achieve nothing.

User avatar
Manbush
Mal Meninga
Posts: 24636
Joined: March 14, 2008, 6:55 pm
Favourite Player: Luke Turner

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by Manbush » October 13, 2016, 6:00 pm

Either way now though it's career suicide, his popularity with the public is dropping too far and with continued pressure will only continue to drop, he basically has a decision IMO of how he wants to go out, guns blazing for what's right and see his popularity rise or go out cowering to his puppet masters, how does he want his time in charge remembered.
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

User avatar
reptar
Laurie Daley
Posts: 14619
Joined: January 25, 2005, 9:24 pm
Favourite Player: Josh Hodgson
Location: Brisbane

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by reptar » October 13, 2016, 8:49 pm

Does anyone think George Christensen is up to the job?
Gina Riley: Oh, come on, John. That’s a bit old hat, the corrupt IOC delegate.
John Clarke: Old hat? Gina, in the scientific world when they see that something is happening again and again and again, repeatedly, they don’t call it old hat. They call it a pattern.

User avatar
Manbush
Mal Meninga
Posts: 24636
Joined: March 14, 2008, 6:55 pm
Favourite Player: Luke Turner

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by Manbush » October 13, 2016, 9:53 pm

He's up to it as much as Trump is
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 25934
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Nick Cotric

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by Botman » October 13, 2016, 9:59 pm

reptar wrote:Does anyone think George Christensen is up to the job?
@Nickman
Your mate
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;

User avatar
The Rickman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 44111
Joined: June 25, 2012, 9:53 am
Favourite Player: Hodgo
Location: Rockhampton, Central Queensland

The Politics Thread 2016

Post by The Rickman » October 14, 2016, 6:43 am

One thing I do know is that if Georgie Boy somehow became prime minister of Australia I'm rocking up to his dorm room at Parliament House with a goon bag under each arm and wearing a goon box on my head to celebrate!
Image
2012 Golden Boogs Newbie of the Year
2013 'Nella Awards Best Punter
2013 Boogs Thread of the Year ~ The Betting Thread
2014 Boogs Matthew Elliott Award Winner
2014 Boogs some award with Hanbush

User avatar
Manbush
Mal Meninga
Posts: 24636
Joined: March 14, 2008, 6:55 pm
Favourite Player: Luke Turner

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by Manbush » October 14, 2016, 6:53 am

Think a white sheet on your head would be more appropriate attire around George
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

User avatar
Schifty
Laurie Daley
Posts: 16311
Joined: March 14, 2010, 4:00 pm
Favourite Player: Josh Hodgson

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by Schifty » October 14, 2016, 7:22 am

If it wasn't for a couple nationals threatening to bring down the government we would have Marriage Equality passed by now.

Turnbull should call their Bull bluff.. What are they going to do? Form a coalition with Labor?

Even if they voted no confidence and a new election was called they would have to campaign against their sugar daddy and become even less relevant as Libs would put candidates in all their seats.

They'd eventually become even more irrelevant in the senate as well.

Professor
Steve Walters
Posts: 7434
Joined: August 13, 2008, 3:39 pm
Favourite Player: Bae
Location: Canberra

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by Professor » October 14, 2016, 7:25 am

The Nickman wrote:One thing I do know is that if Georgie Boy somehow became prime minister of Australia I'm rocking up to his dorm room at Parliament House with a goon bag under each arm and wearing a goon box on my head to celebrate!
If he has a spinning clothesline, I'm there with bells on. Love me some goon of fortune!

User avatar
papabear
Gary Belcher
Posts: 6188
Joined: August 27, 2007, 2:26 pm
Location: redfern

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by papabear » October 14, 2016, 7:38 am

The Nickman wrote:One thing I do know is that if Georgie Boy somehow became prime minister of Australia I'm rocking up to his dorm room at Parliament House with a goon bag under each arm and wearing a goon box on my head to celebrate!
Thegh needs more boxhead !!!

User avatar
Manbush
Mal Meninga
Posts: 24636
Joined: March 14, 2008, 6:55 pm
Favourite Player: Luke Turner

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by Manbush » October 14, 2016, 7:46 am

Schifty wrote:If it wasn't for a couple nationals threatening to bring down the government we would have Marriage Equality passed by now.

Turnbull should call their Bull bluff.. What are they going to do? Form a coalition with Labor?

Even if they voted no confidence and a new election was called they would have to campaign against their sugar daddy and become even less relevant as Libs would put candidates in all their seats.

They'd eventually become even more irrelevant in the senate as well.
Yep and if marriage equality has the numbers within his party as has been suggested what's he got to fear, time to put the Nationals in their place.
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

Professor
Steve Walters
Posts: 7434
Joined: August 13, 2008, 3:39 pm
Favourite Player: Bae
Location: Canberra

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by Professor » October 14, 2016, 7:55 am

I watched your mate JJ recently on Netflix - thought it was quite good, but thought he spent too long talking about toilet training his son.

Off topic, I know, but what of it!?

User avatar
papabear
Gary Belcher
Posts: 6188
Joined: August 27, 2007, 2:26 pm
Location: redfern

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by papabear » October 14, 2016, 7:56 am

I imagine that will be his plan once the plebiscite vote fails.

Have another meeting of the liberals see if they can allow a free vote.

User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 25934
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Nick Cotric

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by Botman » October 14, 2016, 8:03 am

Professor wrote:
The Nickman wrote:One thing I do know is that if Georgie Boy somehow became prime minister of Australia I'm rocking up to his dorm room at Parliament House with a goon bag under each arm and wearing a goon box on my head to celebrate!
If he has a spinning clothesline, I'm there with bells on. Love me some goon of fortune!
What a game
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;

Professor
Steve Walters
Posts: 7434
Joined: August 13, 2008, 3:39 pm
Favourite Player: Bae
Location: Canberra

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by Professor » October 14, 2016, 8:08 am

Pigman wrote:
Professor wrote:
The Nickman wrote:One thing I do know is that if Georgie Boy somehow became prime minister of Australia I'm rocking up to his dorm room at Parliament House with a goon bag under each arm and wearing a goon box on my head to celebrate!
If he has a spinning clothesline, I'm there with bells on. Love me some goon of fortune!
What a game
Haha yeah. Do you go just wine? We usually get the worst of worst wine as our "bankrupt",
whilst including one bag of a vodka mix for "top dollar". The rest is low to mid range wine.

User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 25934
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Nick Cotric

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by Botman » October 14, 2016, 8:09 am

Just goon for me back in the day, of varying quality haha

That vodka mix for top dollar sounds like an excellent adjustment! Haha
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;

Professor
Steve Walters
Posts: 7434
Joined: August 13, 2008, 3:39 pm
Favourite Player: Bae
Location: Canberra

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by Professor » October 14, 2016, 8:11 am

Pigman wrote:Just goon for me back in the day, of varying quality haha

That vodka mix for top dollar sounds like an excellent adjustment! Haha
Oh, it's the best. Landing on it when in need for respite is the lick. Especially for me as if I land on a red I'm **** - don't like it at all.

User avatar
Manbush
Mal Meninga
Posts: 24636
Joined: March 14, 2008, 6:55 pm
Favourite Player: Luke Turner

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by Manbush » October 14, 2016, 8:46 am

Professor wrote:I watched your mate JJ recently on Netflix - thought it was quite good, but thought he spent too long talking about toilet training his son.

Off topic, I know, but what of it!?
Seen too many can't remember that bit, suffering from new dad syndrome I'm guessing can't shut up about the smallest detail.
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

Professor
Steve Walters
Posts: 7434
Joined: August 13, 2008, 3:39 pm
Favourite Player: Bae
Location: Canberra

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by Professor » October 14, 2016, 8:56 am

Manbush wrote:
Professor wrote:I watched your mate JJ recently on Netflix - thought it was quite good, but thought he spent too long talking about toilet training his son.

Off topic, I know, but what of it!?
Seen too many can't remember that bit, suffering from new dad syndrome I'm guessing can't shut up about the smallest detail.
This is the newest one, I believe.

User avatar
100%green
Don Furner
Posts: 8207
Joined: June 7, 2006, 11:20 pm
Location: Belconnen

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by 100%green » October 14, 2016, 4:28 pm

Image

Pretty disappointed in our club sending out this sort of thing!

Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk
Image

Walt Flanigan
Jason Croker
Posts: 4366
Joined: July 4, 2006, 12:36 pm

Re: ACT Opposition refuse to commit to new Canberra Stadium

Post by Walt Flanigan » October 14, 2016, 4:59 pm

Anyone else get an SMS from "RaidersGrP" telling them to vote Liberal?
If you don't like your job, you don't strike: you just go in every day and do it really half-assed. That's the American way!

User avatar
100%green
Don Furner
Posts: 8207
Joined: June 7, 2006, 11:20 pm
Location: Belconnen

Re: ACT Opposition refuse to commit to new Canberra Stadium

Post by 100%green » October 14, 2016, 5:14 pm

Image

Pretty disappointed to be honest.

Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk
Image

User avatar
Manbush
Mal Meninga
Posts: 24636
Joined: March 14, 2008, 6:55 pm
Favourite Player: Luke Turner

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by Manbush » October 14, 2016, 5:40 pm

Canberra liberals sound an open bunch, spotted before Jeremy Hanson blocked Sex Partys Andrew Dewson on Twitter
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

Green eyed Mick
Laurie Daley
Posts: 13410
Joined: February 26, 2010, 6:01 pm
Favourite Player: Brett Mullins
Location: Canberra :(

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by Green eyed Mick » October 14, 2016, 5:59 pm

100%green wrote:Image

Pretty disappointed in our club sending out this sort of thing!

Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk
Agree. I don't want my football club telling me who to vote for.

User avatar
reptar
Laurie Daley
Posts: 14619
Joined: January 25, 2005, 9:24 pm
Favourite Player: Josh Hodgson
Location: Brisbane

Re: The Politics Thread 2016

Post by reptar » October 14, 2016, 6:18 pm

Can i marry yet?
Gina Riley: Oh, come on, John. That’s a bit old hat, the corrupt IOC delegate.
John Clarke: Old hat? Gina, in the scientific world when they see that something is happening again and again and again, repeatedly, they don’t call it old hat. They call it a pattern.

Post Reply