The Politics Thread 2016

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Green eyed Mick
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Green eyed Mick »

Manbush wrote:IF YOU’RE GOING TO WORRY ABOUT THE CHILDREN... WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK?

http://www.sexparty.org.au/policy/154-i ... ease-think

Internet censorship still on the agenda
the referral states that “online pornography is increasingly violent in its content” despite this claim being much disputed. It makes claims without evidence that “violence against women is often linked back to early and repeated exposure to pornography” and that “violence towards, and abuse of, children is often linked to early and repeated exposure to pornography.”

The referral is looking at:

(a) trends of online consumption of pornography by children and their impact on the development of healthy and respectful relationships;
(b) current methods taken towards harm minimisation in other jurisdictions, and the effectiveness of those methods;
(c) the identification of any measures with the potential for implementation in Australia; and
(d) any other related matters.


Censorship may well be proposed at some point but that isn't what this referral is looking at. It is about harm minimisation, not censorship and if censorship is the recommendation that comes forward I am sure it will attract plenty of attention and opposition.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Manbush »

T_R wrote: People are often lashed - but they choose to do with it ribbons instead of a whip. People are sentenced, given one whack, and then pardoned from the other 199 at the behest of the King or whoever is acting in his name.

The system is ****, we all get it. I agree. I completely oppose so much of what Saudi does.
With ribbons :lol:

Wonder if Badwadi agrees, 20 sets of 50 for a blog or the poet Fayadh getting the death sentence for apostasy due to his poetry. To be fair the lashes don't appear full strength from videos, more symbolic but definitely don't look like ribbons.

Glad you agree with the system is **** though I was worried they'd fully purchased your soul.

#SueMeSaudi

I acknowledge its a complicated issue and I have heard that the current leader is trying to change things ever so slowly, doesn't excuse it though.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by T_R »

Manbush wrote:
T_R wrote: People are often lashed - but they choose to do with it ribbons instead of a whip. People are sentenced, given one whack, and then pardoned from the other 199 at the behest of the King or whoever is acting in his name.

The system is ****, we all get it. I agree. I completely oppose so much of what Saudi does.
With ribbons Image

Wonder if Badwadi agrees, 20 sets of 50 for a blog or the poet Fayadh getting the death sentence for apostasy due to his poetry. To be fair the lashes don't appear full strength from videos, more symbolic but definitely don't look like ribbons.

Glad you agree with the system is **** though I was worried they'd fully purchased your soul.

#SueMeSaudi

I acknowledge its a complicated issue and I have heard that the current leader is trying to change things ever so slowly, doesn't excuse it though.
MB, the 'current leader' has been there for about five minutes, and no one has a clue where he's at with these things.

You are honestly embarrassing yourself here.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Manbush »

Been in power a year replacing his half brother so those paying close attention would have a fair indication of how he's heading, you don't think a year is enough time to tell if someone's going to try and change things?

Are you always so contradictory TR, I bag them you defend them, I defend them you bag me. I'll have to use that anytime I want you arguing on my side, just pretend I hold the opposite view I really do. :lol:
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by T_R »

I just like an argument with nuance, or shades of grey.

This is something rarely encountered in your key source area, page 10 of Googke.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by T_R »

Manbush wrote:Been in power a year replacing his half brother so those paying close attention would have a fair indication of how he's heading, you don't think a year is enough time to tell if someone's going to try and change things?

Are you always so contradictory TR, I bag them you defend them, I defend them you bag me. I'll have to use that anytime I want you arguing on my side, just pretend I hold the opposite view I really do. Image
And of course, as a keen observer of Middle Eastern culture and politics, you'd be aware that the new King would not consider making and changes in b the first year, out of respect to his brothers memory

Also, does it give me any cred if I just had coffee with his grand nephew?

Didn't think so :(
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Manbush »

Haha I didn't say I'd been paying close attention, I'm going off what a couple of major critics of Saudi have said about him ones that do pay close attention, if a critic pays a compliment they do stand out.

Depends what kind of cred, could also suggest too close to the situation to be 100% reliable as with taking fat stacks off them, what gave you the most cred was admitting they're ****. You disagree he's going to be slowly improving it or do you think he'll stick to his half brothers actions, more executions last year than in a few years was worrying but have to take into account increased terrorism, would need a breakdown of the correct charges to take much from that.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Schifty
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Schifty »

T_R wrote:
Manbush wrote:
Also, does it give me any cred if I just had coffee with his grand nephew?

Didn't think so :(
You get Cred because that's probably the first time I've heard the term Grand Nephew..
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The Politics Thread

Post by The Nickman »

God, watching Manbush try and argue a topic he clearly knows absolutely nothing about is both infuriating and hilarious at the same time!!

Infurious!!
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Manbush »

World news and human rights groups must have the same no idea to Nickman, I'll have to remember from now on though personal stories outweigh global reports and human rights groups.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by T_R »

Manbush wrote:World news and human rights groups must have the same no idea to Nickman, I'll have to remember from now on though personal stories outweigh global reports and human rights groups.
Manbush, you realise we all have access to Google, too? We're all aware of the same reports. And you're right. The Human Rights situation in Saudi is far, far from ideal.

What I'm saying is that there is more to it than you see in the headlines, and while I completely disagree with a large part of what they do, they are not as bad as is often reported and provide a massively better outcome than what would be there if the House of Saud was not moderating the religious fundamentalists.

I know that you prefer an argument that runs along the lines of "Witchcraft! Floggings! Apostasy! They're just not LIKE us!", but the real world is a little more complicated than that. The vast majority of your posts in this thread make you appear to be unable to process that.

And this is not about 'personal stories'. I spend a fair percentage of my time in the region and on the ground in KSA in particular. Of course I am more aware of the situation there than a clown in Brisbane with an internet connection and a bent for ranting - it would be absurd to consider otherwise.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Manbush »

It is all about personal stories though TR, everything I've stated I can provide evidence for where as what you've stated I gather you can't, more aware than some clown in Brisbane is one thing but you're also acting like you're more aware than human rights groups and world news.

I would never stoop to "theyre not like us" mate, as for witchcraft and apostasy they are facts, might be more complicated but they are still facts regardless, same with trapping gays on dating sites, raiding gay parties etc.

I'll give you the same challenge as I gave Nickman, put your life where your mouth is, next time you're there talk about atheism to a crowd, practice witchcraft and have talismans and books, hit on the religious police and question Islam and the current leadership see where that gets you, film it for us.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by T_R »

Manbush wrote:It is all about personal stories though TR, everything I've stated I can provide evidence for where as what you've stated I gather you can't, more aware than some clown in Brisbane is one thing but you're also acting like you're more aware than human rights groups and world news.

I would never stoop to "theyre not like us" mate, as for witchcraft and apostasy they are facts, might be more complicated but they are still facts regardless, same with trapping gays on dating sites, raiding gay parties etc.

I'll give you the same challenge as I gave Nickman, put your life where your mouth is, next time you're there talk about atheism to a crowd, practice witchcraft and have talismans and books, hit on the religious police and question Islam and the current leadership see where that gets you, film it for us.
Why on earth would I do that?

As for 'acting more aware', well, try this. You can read the rules of rugby league on the internet, but do you think you could really describe to someone what it looks like without ever actually seeing a game?
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Manbush »

Why would you do that, well according to you you'd be fine or do you acknowledge you wouldn't?
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by T_R »

Yes, but it would make me look like a ****

But I am 100% I would not suffer any legal sanction, yes.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Manbush »

Haha ok mate, people don't get jailed for that stuff, people like Badwadi and Fayadh are figments of the imagination, even one of their ministers reported a woman was beheaded for witchcraft, guess he's wrong to.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by T_R »

Manbush.

It happens. I get it. No one is debating it.

What I'm saying is that it happens very rarely, there is normally more to the circumstances than is reported, and that the statistics you've quoted absolutely prove this.

Anyway, I have work to do so I will leave you to Googling in your echo chamber.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Manbush »

Cool glad you agree it does happen, I've said laws don't always apply evenly (in every country) so we're actually in agreement.

The witchcraft charges do appear to be more in retaliation, i.e. a foreign worker makes a complaint about their boss and the boss presses charges for witchcraft. That would be a case of more to the circumstance but it actually makes it worse, and for charges of apostasy, witchcraft etc to be laid the "more to it" would have to be along the same lines if they're the worst charges that can be made. Harry Potter is banned so they obviously take witchcraft seriously.

All this and we actually agree by the looks of it :lol:

No rush just a genuine question do you think the new king will improve it or are they facing the same ****, the evidence at hand would suggest the same **** but for a few very vocal critics to suggest he will try and improve it I've got no idea and genuinely interested.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by T_R »

We don’t agree. I think that you have cobbled together a series of Google clicks into an uninformed yet passionately-held opinion.

As for the new King, obviously I don’t know. As I said, he has done very, very little in his first year (as one would expect to be the case).

Here’s what I don’t think you understand. There is no law in Saudi Arabia. Nothing is written down; there are no government-run courts. There was an attempt to write down a criminal code; it has never been enacted. The Shia community is, by their own preference, judged in an entirely different court to the mainstream Sunni community. So when clowns like yourself say that the ‘Saudi government’ tries people for witchcraft, a lot of the time it is actually a ‘community court’ that has done so – a court chosen by the community itself based upon their religious preference, over which the ruling family maintains absolutely no control.

This falls down badly where a Sunni court manages to get their hands on and then sit in judgement of a Shia follower, by the way. The recent execution that has caused such a kerfuffle wasn’t a government topping a terrorist – it was one church rolling a significant figure in another church, just as the Catholics and Protestants have been doing in the UK for the last 400 years (historically speaking, they only just STOPPED executing each other, and only JUST JUST stopped blowing each other up with car bombs. But, you know, the Saudis are animals, aren’t they, not like us. Even today, the English Monarch is specifically precluded from marrying a Catholic.)

In our legal system, a key fundamental is ‘consistency’. If you’re busted for pot this week, you expect the same punishment as if you were busted last week. But Sharia has no expectation of consistency. Rather, the ijtihad system allows judges to independently interpret the word of God entirely depending on the circumstances of the case. So there is huge nuance in the legal system in which endless variations of circumstance are taken into consideration. The guy sentenced to death for witchcraft is just as likely to have murdered his neighbor – why have two trials when you can just have one? The entirety of his character can be judged in a Saudi trial. What is reported is that someone has been execute for ‘witchcraft’. What is not reported is the bath full of body parts they found out the back. In Australia, he’s a mentally deranged serial killer. In Saudi, he’s a witch. The American guy is executed as a murderer. The Saudis execute a witch. Either way, he’s just as dead. In reality, I’m not sure the system doesn’t work better than ours in determining guilt or innocence, despite my disagreeing with the extreme punishments.

In an attempt to modernize the judiciary without subverting the role of the mufti, the previous King introduced a series of government tribunals. These deal with issues that fall outside the immediate interest of the mosques – stuff like intellectual property law, for example. This is a massive reform when you think about it; it is the first time the Saudi royal family has attempted to move the legal system from being entirely religious in nature.

There is a government funded police force and a mosque funded (ultimately government funded) alternative police force over which the ruling family offers no direct control. The two are often in conflict. The mosque run police, the mutawa, are frankly terrifying – read up on the Mecca girl’s school fire if you want to feel sick. I would say 90% of the Saudi population would prefer them to be removed, but there is no way the Al-Sauds could take the mosques on to that point and maintain control.

And there lies the issue. Really, there is no government in Saudi Arabia to our way of thinking. Rather, the Al-Saud family was simply the leading tribe at a point in history that we started to think in terms of having governments in the region, so that is what they became. But the Kingdom is still held together with will power and compromise more than anything else.

So, to the original question – will the new King reform as the old King did? I suspect yes. But keep in mind that he does not rule with absolute authority. In fact, it’s far from it…it is highly questionable if the military would follow him in any action against the mosques (hence the creation of the Saudi Arabian National Guard, an entirely separate military force comprising ONLY members of the ruling tribe and their closely allied families). Small measures such as the creation of government tribunals may seem like nothing to us, but are absolutely massive in the Saudi context. Further reforms will be very much softly, softly.

The big factor is the issue of the age of the Saudi population. It is one of the youngest nations on earth, and has cripplingly high unemployment. There is a massive babyboom bubble of 20somethings now emerging from a dysfunctional education system. Will they move to fundamentalism? Will they instead prefer play stations and holidays at Disney? Much of the current King’s reign will depend on his ability to control the mood of this group. I have absolutely no idea which way it will go, but I assure you it will be much more complicated, far more nuanced and ultimately much less clear than page ten of Google will reveal.

Anyway, that’s my understanding in a nutshell. I am sure you will find some point buried away that page ten of Google contradicts. Please don’t bother; I am not interested in debating the minutiae of this. My point will remain anyway – there is no point applying our standards to a system that is so fundamentally different in nature. It just doesn’t work.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Shadow Boxer »

This is fantastic, bath full of body parts, Deary me.
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by T_R »

Shadow Boxer wrote:This is fantastic, bath full of body parts, Deary me.
Um....huh?
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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T_R
Don Furner
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by T_R »

Oh, good timing - this just popped up. On the subject of nuance.... http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion ... 2b2ce66a3d
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Manbush
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Manbush »

"Here’s what I don’t think you understand. There is no law in Saudi Arabia. Nothing is written down; there are no government-run courts"

With all the reading I've done don't you think I've come across that mate, it explains the vast differences in sentences that get handed down, the biased decisions etc, "government" I guess was a simple way of saying the buck should always stop with them, the laws are more fluid based on religion so while not officially written they do still exist hence why certain things are illegal, saying no laws isn't quite accurate either.

We might not agree on everything but we do agree that apostasy, witchcraft, questioning the government and Islam does see some people punished, oh and that they're ****, displaying headless corpses in public could be described no differently.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
Shadow Boxer
Ricky Stuart
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Shadow Boxer »

T_R wrote:Oh, good timing - this just popped up. On the subject of nuance.... http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion ... 2b2ce66a3d
I am a fan of nuance but generally prefer the old idiom that "tyranny will rule in the absence of nuance".

Generally this applies to religious based totalitarian states that end of ignoring the basic norms of civilised society as there is no room for nuance in religion. It fundamentally spoils the premise.

If it's ok with you I will continue to form my opinions based on the credible independent reporting.

Religion really is stupid.
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T_R
Don Furner
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by T_R »

You dont get it, do you. I completely wasted my time writing that.

Last try. Manbush, in your post, who is 'they'?
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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T_R
Don Furner
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by T_R »

Shadow Boxer wrote:
T_R wrote:Oh, good timing - this just popped up. On the subject of nuance.... http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion ... 2b2ce66a3d
I am a fan of nuance but generally prefer the old idiom that "tyranny will rule in the absence of nuance".

Generally this applies to religious based totalitarian states that end of ignoring the basic norms of civilised society as there is no room for nuance in religion. It fundamentally spoils the premise.

If it's ok with you I will continue to form my opinions based on the credible independent reporting.

Religion really is stupid.
You've actually largely proven my point, but I thinks it's still lost on you.
Image

Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Manbush
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Manbush »

Judicial system for lack of a better word, the religious police, witchcraft unit etc etc
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Manbush
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Manbush »

T_R wrote:Oh, good timing - this just popped up. On the subject of nuance.... http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion ... 2b2ce66a3d
Can't open it sorry not a paid member
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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simo
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by simo »

Gotta love the use of one religions actions to justify anothers
Dont delete this GE
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Sterlk
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Sterlk »

The Nickman wrote:God, watching Manbush try and argue a topic he clearly knows absolutely nothing about is both infuriating and hilarious at the same time!!

Infurious!!
I prefer "hilariating".
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T_R
Don Furner
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by T_R »

Manbush wrote:Judicial system for lack of a better word, the religious police, witchcraft unit etc etc
Did you read what I wrote?

There are competing systems. There is no overall control. There are fundamentally different objectives among different groups that operate at different times in conjunction and then in direct competition to each other. 'The religious police', for example. What is that? The Sunni religious police? The Shiite religious police? Fundamentalist elements within the 'official' police? These are all different groups operating independently of control of the Al Saud family.

As for 'witchcraft units'...c'mon.

Honestly, I think this is all too much for you - you are approaching this from your own cultural frame of reference and it simply doesn't apply. Stop thinking of a 'government' and try thinking of Saudi as a region where one tribe is attempting to dominate the other tribes through force, reward and compromise, and you'll get much closer to the reality.
Image

Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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T_R
Don Furner
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by T_R »

Manbush wrote: "government" I guess was a simple way of saying the buck should always stop with them
,

Why? Even if the Al Saud family wanted a McDonalds on every corner, there is absolutely no way they could ever implement it. How can 'the buck stop' with people who have absolutely no power to implement the changes that they may (or may not) want?
Manbush wrote:the laws are more fluid based on religion so while not officially written they do still exist hence why certain things are illegal, saying no laws isn't quite accurate either.
Did you read what I said about the itjihad system? Serious question - did you understand it? There is absolutely no consistency expected under this system. Everything is absolutely open to interpretation in each and every case.
Image

Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Manbush
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by Manbush »

You make it sound even worse than I possibly could.

The witchcraft unit while bizarre and archaic does exist as part of "The Committee for the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice", from memory set up around 2009 to investigate witchcraft and undo their damage, Harry Potter is banned so they do take their witchcraft seriously.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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T_R
Don Furner
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by T_R »

And who set that up?
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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simo
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Re: The Politics Thread

Post by simo »

The order of the phoenix
Dont delete this GE
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