2016 US Elections

Discuss all the events of the day

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simo
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Re: 2016 US Elections

Post by simo » November 11, 2016, 11:24 am

Manbush wrote:The most convincing argument Simo could make is that we both agree Nickman ;) :lol:
and thats disgusting. Shame on you nick
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Re: 2016 US Elections

Post by zim » November 11, 2016, 11:24 am

-TW- wrote:
greeneyed wrote:
-TW- wrote:Dunno if this has been covered, turnout just over 50%

I'm sure a lot of the wailing is coming from those who didn't vote
Given you've got to queue up for three hours to vote, on a work day, it's no wonder they don't get a big turnout.
Not an excuse seeing there's prepoll and postal votes
Those options are not available in every state. Some states the only option is to go and line up for 3+ hours.

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Re: 2016 US Elections

Post by The Rickman » November 11, 2016, 11:25 am

Wait...wait.. has simo just attempted to justify each and every one of the points about Donald Trump's words and actions up there??

That's me... I'm officially SB'ing out of this one. That's truly disgusting behaviour.
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Re: 2016 US Elections

Post by simo » November 11, 2016, 11:28 am

The Nickman wrote:Wait...wait.. has simo just attempted to justify each and every one of the points about Donald Trump's words and actions up there??

That's me... I'm officially SB'ing out of this one. That's truly disgusting behaviour.
someone disagreed with me! How dare they! My views are always right! I am the great nickman!
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Re: 2016 US Elections

Post by T_R » November 11, 2016, 11:56 am

Which of his points do you disagree with, Simo?
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: 2016 US Elections

Post by Wiggy » November 11, 2016, 11:56 am

The Nickman wrote:Wait...wait.. has simo just attempted to justify each and every one of the points about Donald Trump's words and actions up there??

That's me... I'm officially SB'ing out of this one. That's truly disgusting behaviour.
This thing that people do... the name calling: "you're disgusting", "you're morally bankrupt", "you're sexist/racists". The shaming, the mocking

This is what gave us Brexit. This is what gave us Trump. It doesn't change anyone's mind. All it does is make them keep silent (making all the polls wrong) but makes them angry and hardens their resolve that they are right.

I'm guilty of it myself (with the same sex marriage debate). Now seeing the US election, I'm glad there is no SSM plebiscite, because it would absolutely get shot down by the silent majority. Yelling at people, telling them they are racist and sexists just doesn't work. It seems to make it worse.

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Re: 2016 US Elections

Post by Green eyed Mick » November 11, 2016, 12:11 pm

zim wrote:
-TW- wrote:
greeneyed wrote:
-TW- wrote:Dunno if this has been covered, turnout just over 50%

I'm sure a lot of the wailing is coming from those who didn't vote
Given you've got to queue up for three hours to vote, on a work day, it's no wonder they don't get a big turnout.
Not an excuse seeing there's prepoll and postal votes
Those options are not available in every state. Some states the only option is to go and line up for 3+ hours.
13 states don't have pre-polling and/or postal votes.

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Re: 2016 US Elections

Post by gergreg » November 11, 2016, 12:24 pm

The Nickman wrote:I just don't get the logic of Australians being happy about this. Even if you don't get a damn about minorities such as Asians or Muslims, if you don't care whether gay people deserve equal rights, even if the way Trump speaks about and treats women, even if you couldn't give a crap about America or you don't care about Eastern Europe or Japan and South Korea... even if you don't care about any of those things, and at the basic, most selfish level all you care about is yourself... his intended policies will DIRECTLY impact Australians.

Even if you couldn't give a flying **** about what's right and wrong and you just want to "stick it to the man", if Trump goes ahead with his "policies" this will have a direct impact on you.

All you're sticking it to here is yourself.

Will be an extremely interesting 18 months. He has made so many promises that it is physically impossible (logistically) for him to follow through on all of them so the reality is nobody knows what is actually going to happen.
Shoving it in your face since 2017

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Re: 2016 US Elections

Post by Green eyed Mick » November 11, 2016, 12:46 pm

Wiggy wrote:
The Nickman wrote:Wait...wait.. has simo just attempted to justify each and every one of the points about Donald Trump's words and actions up there??

That's me... I'm officially SB'ing out of this one. That's truly disgusting behaviour.
This thing that people do... the name calling: "you're disgusting", "you're morally bankrupt", "you're sexist/racists". The shaming, the mocking

This is what gave us Brexit. This is what gave us Trump. It doesn't change anyone's mind. All it does is make them keep silent (making all the polls wrong) but makes them angry and hardens their resolve that they are right.

I'm guilty of it myself (with the same sex marriage debate). Now seeing the US election, I'm glad there is no SSM plebiscite, because it would absolutely get shot down by the silent majority. Yelling at people, telling them they are racist and sexists just doesn't work. It seems to make it worse.
Labelling the Trump voters 'deplorables' was a huge mistake by the Clinton campaign. They also sowed the seeds with the disaffected left by similarly discrediting and labelling the Sanders voters during the primary.

Interesting piece from a Trump voter:

By mid-October, it was one August 17, 2014, email from the WikiLeaks treasure trove of Clinton emails that poisoned the well for me. In it, Clinton told aide John Podesta: "We need to use our diplomatic and more traditional intelligence assets to bring pressure on the governments of Qatar and Saudi Arabia, which are providing clandestine financial and logistic support to ISIL," the politically correct name for the Islamic State, "and other radical Sunni groups in the region."

The revelations of multimillion-dollar donations to the Clinton Foundation from Qatar and Saudi Arabia killed my support for Clinton.

I gently tried to express my thoughts on Twitter but the "Pantsuit revolution" was like a steamroller to any nuanced discourse. If you supported Trump, you had to be a redneck


http://www.canberratimes.com.au/comment ... smwws.html

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Re: 2016 US Elections

Post by Manbush » November 11, 2016, 1:21 pm

Wiggy wrote:
The Nickman wrote:Wait...wait.. has simo just attempted to justify each and every one of the points about Donald Trump's words and actions up there??

That's me... I'm officially SB'ing out of this one. That's truly disgusting behaviour.
This thing that people do... the name calling: "you're disgusting", "you're morally bankrupt", "you're sexist/racists". The shaming, the mocking

This is what gave us Brexit. This is what gave us Trump. It doesn't change anyone's mind. All it does is make them keep silent (making all the polls wrong) but makes them angry and hardens their resolve that they are right.

I'm guilty of it myself (with the same sex marriage debate). Now seeing the US election, I'm glad there is no SSM plebiscite, because it would absolutely get shot down by the silent majority. Yelling at people, telling them they are racist and sexists just doesn't work. It seems to make it worse.
Kaching, as much as people want to blame the far right for Trump, Brexit and one Nation they are the result of SJWs and the far left going too far on some issues, closing down debate, name calling etc, driving people to someone who at least isn't afraid to speak up even if they go too far, it's why I quoted Isaac Newton earlier, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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Re: 2016 US Elections

Post by Riaan » November 11, 2016, 1:27 pm

gergreg wrote:
The Nickman wrote:I just don't get the logic of Australians being happy about this. Even if you don't get a damn about minorities such as Asians or Muslims, if you don't care whether gay people deserve equal rights, even if the way Trump speaks about and treats women, even if you couldn't give a crap about America or you don't care about Eastern Europe or Japan and South Korea... even if you don't care about any of those things, and at the basic, most selfish level all you care about is yourself... his intended policies will DIRECTLY impact Australians.

Even if you couldn't give a flying **** about what's right and wrong and you just want to "stick it to the man", if Trump goes ahead with his "policies" this will have a direct impact on you.

All you're sticking it to here is yourself.

Will be an extremely interesting 18 months. He has made so many promises that it is physically impossible (logistically) for him to follow through on all of them so the reality is nobody knows what is actually going to happen.
It will be very interesting, its going to be basically impossible to re invigorate american manufacturing unless the rust belt is happy to be paid 3rd world wages and he is still unpopular with a lot of people in the republican party so he might find it difficult to pass his laws anyway.

My take is that he will be one of the most unpopular presidents ever once his supporter base realize he is just a fast talking salesman as he backs away from most of his promises.

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Re: 2016 US Elections

Post by PigRickman » November 11, 2016, 2:54 pm

Everything is fine.

https://mobile.twitter.com/i/moments/79 ... 830656?m=1

I'm sure simo has a perfect explanation for this
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Re: 2016 US Elections

Post by Green eyed Mick » November 11, 2016, 3:05 pm

Manbush wrote:
Wiggy wrote:
The Nickman wrote:Wait...wait.. has simo just attempted to justify each and every one of the points about Donald Trump's words and actions up there??

That's me... I'm officially SB'ing out of this one. That's truly disgusting behaviour.
This thing that people do... the name calling: "you're disgusting", "you're morally bankrupt", "you're sexist/racists". The shaming, the mocking

This is what gave us Brexit. This is what gave us Trump. It doesn't change anyone's mind. All it does is make them keep silent (making all the polls wrong) but makes them angry and hardens their resolve that they are right.

I'm guilty of it myself (with the same sex marriage debate). Now seeing the US election, I'm glad there is no SSM plebiscite, because it would absolutely get shot down by the silent majority. Yelling at people, telling them they are racist and sexists just doesn't work. It seems to make it worse.
Kaching, as much as people want to blame the far right for Trump, Brexit and one Nation they are the result of SJWs and the far left going too far on some issues, closing down debate, name calling etc, driving people to someone who at least isn't afraid to speak up even if they go too far, it's why I quoted Isaac Newton earlier, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
**** you dribble some **** MB. Firstly, Newton's 3rd law of motion has absolutely nothing to do with what happened in the US. Secondly, Trump voters are responsible for Trump. The Democrats made his job a lot easier than it should have been and the media didn't do their job but ultimately it was those individuals who voted for Trump that bare the responsibility for him.

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Re: 2016 US Elections

Post by simo » November 11, 2016, 3:10 pm

Pigman wrote:Everything is fine.

https://mobile.twitter.com/i/moments/79 ... 830656?m=1

I'm sure simo has a perfect explanation for this
Imagei get that some people are using trump as a vehicle for their hate, but isnt that the same as when someone uses a religion as such vehicle and you say its not the religion, its the extremist?
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Re: 2016 US Elections

Post by Manbush » November 11, 2016, 3:17 pm

You don't believe they're a pushback mate, the far left and far right feed off each other, strengthen each other.

One of the things that got Trump up was Islam, for so long any criticism of anything to do with Islam has been met with calls of bigotry and racism, leaders unwilling to label extremists as Islamic extremists etc, it's what has gotten One Nation their seats as well.

Just need to look what's happened to a moderate Muslim like Maajid Nawaz recently as an example, someone who fights Islamism and Islamaphobia and defends Muslims has been listed by an American SJW law firm as an anti Muslim extremist along with Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

Saw this post shared by Faisal Saeed Al Mutar and he nails it, if the far left had been more open and honest I doubt so many would've been driven into Trumps arms.

"Probably the only thing I seem to have gotten right about this year is this: Liberals have failed miserably in honestly addressing very real problems like Islamic terrorism, scoffing at those expressing legitimate concerns and throwing out words like "bigot" as if they were candy. Trump exploited the opportunity, in a very dark, divisive way. He filled a vacuum that was left there by modern liberals, who could've been clearer and more honest and up-front with concerned citizens. There's going to be a lot to talk about over the next four years, and I hope it's productive."
Last edited by Manbush on November 11, 2016, 3:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: 2016 US Elections

Post by PigRickman » November 11, 2016, 3:19 pm

Trump. Ya boi. Has enabled a new wave hate. They are stamping Trump's name all over this stuff because of the platform he ran on, the platform he won on, has given them the feeling that this behaviour is now Ok

But it's all good. People are being threatened, bullied, harrassed. Violence against muslims in the states have increase 78% since Trump go into the race... but it's all good, eh simo. Meltdowns over nothing.
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Re: 2016 US Elections

Post by simo » November 11, 2016, 4:26 pm

So hes ma boi just because i havent chucked a tanty about an election process being carried out and the result going in one parties favour, that just happens not to be yours.
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Re: 2016 US Elections

Post by greeneyed » November 11, 2016, 4:32 pm

How horrible. Yet there are people on Twitter attacking the bloke for revealing it. But that's what has to be done, it has to be called out as racism, bigotry, and decent people need to say it's unacceptable. Also, disgraceful how the older guy who voted Trump was being physically attacked.

This is what Trump has unleashed.
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Re: 2016 US Elections

Post by Manbush » November 11, 2016, 4:36 pm

Trump is considering Ben Carson for Secretary of Education.

Dr. Carson believes the world is 6,000 years old and that Joseph from the Bible built the Egyptian pyramids to store grain, let's make America stupid again!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/peopl ... 10006.html

So Vice President is a creationist who believes evolution is "just a theory" and creationism should be taught in schools as a valid alternative in science to evolution, minister of education might be a new earther (Pence appears to be one also but avoids the question). Their education system was on the way up, first time ever over 50% of young Americans accept evolution, creationist teachings on the decline, looks like Trump could stall their educational development.
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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President Donald J. Trump

Post by 1992 » November 11, 2016, 5:05 pm

Should have started this earlier but I was too happy.

Australia could be be a much better place but our politicians are more focused in their own interests. I have had enough and love him or hate him, Trump has shaken up the world of politics.

The words; racist, islamophobia, xenophobe, bigot, misogyny, white privilege etc, these have lost their meaning. Political correctness and (((their))) world view has been rattled.

Anyone else love it?!
WHAT A LONG STRANGE TRIP IT'S BEEN

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Post by -TW- » November 11, 2016, 5:19 pm

Subscribed.. this is gonna be fun

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Re: 2016 US Elections

Post by Archer » November 11, 2016, 5:26 pm

Manbush i kind of understand what you are getting at - without having a conversation you're never going to convince people of anything or reach any kind of middle ground, but I'm just not sure its that simple in practice. I mean things like Brexit ARE largely related to xenophobia and racism, that's why there was a 60% rise in hate crimes over here in the month following it. I get that some people were voting Brexit because they felt the EU shouldn't be dictating any of the UK laws and policy and wanted to be independant, just like some people voted Trump for non hateful reasons. But if that's the case, they've still chosen to ignore or accept the hateful side of those parties, which is almost as bad as supporting it.

It's pretty hard to not call people out on that. I mean take the same sex marriage debate in Australia, you were one of the biggest advocates for not having the plebiscite, because you said it would only lead to hateful speech. Isn't that kind of going against what you're saying above for Brexit and Trump?

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Re: 2016 US Elections

Post by PigRickman » November 11, 2016, 5:39 pm

simo wrote:So hes ma boi just because i havent chucked a tanty about an election process being carried out and the result going in one parties favour, that just happens not to be yours.
He's ya boi because you seem to be happy enough to defend his actions at every turn, including and not limited to his outrageous bigotry
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers and Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

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Re: 2016 US Elections

Post by Manbush » November 11, 2016, 5:44 pm

Its not that simple and I'll agree it's not the sole reason behind their rise but it has played a part.

Yes I'm against hateful speech which the plebiscite would've evoked, but surely people can have discussions on issues without blanket hate, marriage equality example would be the bible is against it while hateful would be they're terrible parents, Islam example would be discussing Islamist terrorism is real where as the hate would be all Muslims are bad. The far left tend to take any criticism of a group as hate where as the far right love to use hate, sort of makes any genuine conversation impossible. I'll use Maajid as an example again, the far right hate him because he's Muslim, the far left hate him because he's not Muslim enough, the middle ground is unacceptable to both.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Post by Manbush » November 11, 2016, 6:05 pm

1992 wrote:Should have started this earlier but I was too happy.

Australia could be be a much better place but our politicians are more focused in their own interests. I have had enough and love him or hate him, Trump has shaken up the world of politics.

The words; racist, islamophobia, xenophobe, bigot, misogyny, white privilege etc, these have lost their meaning. Political correctness and (((their))) world view has been rattled.

Anyone else love it?!
You don't think Trump also only has his own interests in mind?

To quote the late great Christopher Hitchens, "Nobody is more covetous and greedy than those who already have far too much."
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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Re: 2016 US Elections

Post by Dr Zaius » November 11, 2016, 6:11 pm

Trump's an antivaxxer. Enough said. He's sending the US back to the dark ages.
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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Post by greeneyed » November 11, 2016, 6:20 pm

1992 wrote:The words; racist, islamophobia, xenophobe, bigot, misogyny... these have lost their meaning. Political correctness and (((their))) world view has been rattled.
These words mean precisely what they always have. To stand up against those things is not political correctness, it's common decency.
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Re: 2016 US Elections

Post by T_R » November 11, 2016, 6:24 pm

I'd normally be happy to see GEMs unwashed hippie friends be bulldozed into a ditch by the side of the road, but there's something oddly evocative in the image of the protesters standing around the absurd opulence of Trump Tower.

If you're looking for a graphic for the haves/havenots .... well, you could do much worse.
Image

Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: President Donald J. Trump

Post by Manbush » November 11, 2016, 6:44 pm

greeneyed wrote:
1992 wrote:The words; racist, islamophobia, xenophobe, bigot, misogyny... these have lost their meaning. Political correctness and (((their))) world view has been rattled.
These words mean precisely what they always have. To stand up against those things is not political correctness, it's common decency.
Problem is they have been thrown around carelessly even when not true is what I think 1992 means.
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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Re: 2016 US Elections

Post by simo » November 11, 2016, 7:19 pm

Pigman wrote:
simo wrote:So hes ma boi just because i havent chucked a tanty about an election process being carried out and the result going in one parties favour, that just happens not to be yours.
He's ya boi because you seem to be happy enough to defend his actions at every turn, including and not limited to his outrageous bigotry
defend his actions at every turn? Or just when asked to? I know youve got your heart set on it being the end of the world, and itd be nice for you to have someone to blame all of your problems on, but maybe youve just over invested a little bit too much into the "trump is hitler" crap.
Dont delete this GE

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Re: 2016 US Elections

Post by PigRickman » November 11, 2016, 7:26 pm

What problems of mine have i blamed on him?
Even if i lived in the states, Im male, middle class and white (cue ben folds). I wouldnt have any **** problems :lol:

I just think it's ridiculous that any reasonable person could sit there and defend Trump given what he has said and done over the past 12 months. You got in early with the "meltdowns over nothing" line and as the response around that country has shown, you couldnt have been more wrong. You listen to testimonials and feedback from minorities across the country and you'd have to an idiot to continue to deny that him winning the election with the platform he won it with hasn't already done significant damage to that country
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers and Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Coaching Power Rankings: Ricky Stuart - Top 2, and he ain't 2.

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Seiffert82
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Re: 2016 US Elections

Post by Seiffert82 » November 12, 2016, 8:07 am

simo wrote:Im sure it will. Sometimes decisions are made that i dont agree with but thats an unfortunate side effect of democracy. Ever stopped and thought you may be wrong?
Yep, nothing wrong with electing a leader who played the campaign straight out of the Goebbels playbook. What could possibly go wrong?

Yeah I went there. :lol:

Seriously though, there is something totally messed up about politicians who run election campaigns on a platform of race hatred just because it works (and it does...almost everywhere). It's pretty **** up and it never ends well. It certainly doesn't mean that those who disagree should just sit back and accept it.

Who knows whether Trump the President will be different to Trump the campaigner. Hopefully sanity prevails. Either way, the way this whole election played out was an embarrassing indictment on the general population of America.

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Manbush
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Re: 2016 US Elections

Post by Manbush » November 12, 2016, 8:41 am

Sam nails it, hopefully other leaders learn a lesson from America.

"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

hiriser
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Re: 2016 US Elections

Post by hiriser » November 15, 2016, 8:25 am

Woo Hoo......can i get a woot woot!!

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PigRickman
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Re: 2016 US Elections

Post by PigRickman » November 15, 2016, 8:28 am

No.
No you can not.
The List - K.Love, Keno, Zippy's tennis angels, LA Lakers, Noah, Boozer, Lucy's horse tips, Colts, Lucy, Kevin Proctor, Dr Zaius, TR, Tinfoil hatted Gangers and Woody, anyone in Raiders HQ who can point to QBN on a map....

Matt wrote:
July 18, 2018, 3:49 pm
Edrick Lee 5. Jordan Rapana
Coaching Power Rankings: Ricky Stuart - Top 2, and he ain't 2.

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