Terrorist attacks

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T_R
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by T_R »

Manbush wrote:
T_R wrote:
Manbush wrote:
-PJ- wrote:The world has gone crazy.
I'm wondering why we in Australia have been somewhat lucky so far with these terrible acts.
Same reason America has been relatively lucky, both our countries are rather isolated, a lot harder to come in in large numbers without proper vetting. Also a lot easier for our intelligence to keep an eye on relatively small numbers ....
Typically outstanding analysis of the situation, MB:

Estimated muslim population of US - 3.3 million
Estimated muslim population of UK - 2.8 million
Total population America 321 million
Total population UK 65 million

Typically superficial analysis of the situation TR.

Out of curiosity how would you explain why Australia and America have been relatively lucky despite our policies?
I really don't want to get drawn back into the constantly shifting abyss of your 'argument' MB.

For a start, man up and take responsibility for your words. You said "a lot harder to come in in large numbers without proper vetting". That is an absolute. I pointed out that you were wrong. You then shifted that argument to be " Well, you know, compared to the rest of the population", as if terrorism only commences once it hits a certain percentage or something. You'd have a lot more credibility here (up from none), if just once in your life you could actually follow a consistent line of thought without shifting the goal posts each time you are refuted. " Sorry, I was wrong." Try it.

Now, I'm not sure if I should be phrasing all arguments in percentage terms to suit your current line or not, but as Nickman has pointed out, many, many more Americans die in terrorist incidents than Brits. So, the entire premise of your argument is wrong. Again.

Why do fewer Australians die? Take your pick - our Islamic populations are drawn from other places, tend to be less settled within Australia, suffer the 'tyranny of distance' and tend to be less internationally mobile than in Europe, we have limited access to guns and certainly high powered weapons than some other countries (including Europe), there may be issues of perceived alienation in some UK communities that we don't suffer here. Maybe we're all just smiley happy people. Or maybe it's big-population-something-percentage-something-finger-in-the-wind-oh-it-shifted-again, or whatever your current confused rambling is.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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T_R
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Re: Terrorist attacks

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Question wrote:So what's the argument about?


Hard to say
Question wrote:Just like the boys that flew under bomber command in G for George.
But I'm fairly sure it has nothing to do with Bomber Command in WWII
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by FuiFui BradBrad »

T_R wrote:
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote:
T_R wrote:
Question wrote:Keep throwing flowers at it.
Throwing grenades caused it. What's your solution? More of the same?
I think instead of throwing grenades, we should throw those yellow stress balls with the smiley faces on them.

Maybe they'll pick one up, and think about how pointless and meangingless war is.

Then as they're pondering the meaning of life, throw a grenade at them.
By the way, it's been tried - when the secular Soviet Union launched yet another completely unjustifiable invasion of Islamic Afghanistan (thus creating the environment that eventually lead to the growth of Al Qaeda), their special forces would plant explosives within children's toys, which they would then seed through villages. The explosives would ignite when picked up (inevitably by young children), with just enough power to remove a hand and arm, or perhaps blind them.
Wow, didn't know that. I just made that post in jest, but now I feel a little bad. People can be ****ed
I remember reading once about a group of people, I think they were American, toyed with strapping incendiary devices onto bats. The idea being that they would be released onto Japanese houses, where the roofs were primarily made of straw.

It backfired during a test run, when they released the bats from a plane, and they flew into the barns where they had their weapons stored, blowing the whole place up
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by T_R »

Manbush wrote:
The difference is Christians have learnt to cherry pick the Bible those passages aren't taught as instructions to follow, can you say the same about all of Islam?

Edit: in an effort to clear up my narrative I should point out all Muslims also cherry pick the Quran (either the good or the bad just like Christians) and without Christianity enjoying the benefit of secularim and the Age of Enlightenment I doubt we'd see the version we have today.
Translation: I just realised what I wrote was utterly, utterly stupid, even by my own standards. Therefore, I will 'clear up' my narrative to mean precisely the opposite to what I originally said.


Thank Manbush, you're on fire.
Image

Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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T_R
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by T_R »

Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: I remember reading once about a group of people, I think they were American, toyed with strapping incendiary devices onto bats. The idea being that they would be released onto Japanese houses, where the roofs were primarily made of straw.

It backfired during a test run, when they released the bats from a plane, and they flew into the barns where they had their weapons stored, blowing the whole place up

Not to worry...they found a reliable non-bat method in the end.

Image
Image

Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by Green eyed Mick »

Manbush wrote:
T_R wrote:
Manbush wrote:
-PJ- wrote:The world has gone crazy.
I'm wondering why we in Australia have been somewhat lucky so far with these terrible acts.
Same reason America has been relatively lucky, both our countries are rather isolated, a lot harder to come in in large numbers without proper vetting. Also a lot easier for our intelligence to keep an eye on relatively small numbers ....
Typically outstanding analysis of the situation, MB:

Estimated muslim population of US - 3.3 million
Estimated muslim population of UK - 2.8 million
Total population America 321 million
Total population UK 65 million

Typically superficial analysis of the situation TR.

Out of curiosity how would you explain why Australia and America have been relatively lucky despite our policies?
Over the last two years, immigration has been front and centre of UK and French politics. Racism has become more mainstream and many minority groups in the UK feel like their government and communities have turned on them.
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by dubby »

T_R wrote:
Manbush wrote:I didn't say the whiteys who kill are just crazy but it's not a specific teaching being spread within Christianity, Christians who kill are definitely inspired by their religion but it's not being taught nor is it being claimed as an automatic ticket to heaven.

Can you deny that some Muslims are being taught to kill for Allah, that it's an automatic entrance to their afterlife, can you claim Christians are being taught the same?
Really?

I mean, are you still trying or are you just lobbing up slow balls now?

Deuteronomy 17

If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
Matthew 5 38-40

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The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by Manbush »

T_R wrote:
Manbush wrote:
T_R wrote:
Manbush wrote:
-PJ- wrote:The world has gone crazy.
I'm wondering why we in Australia have been somewhat lucky so far with these terrible acts.
Same reason America has been relatively lucky, both our countries are rather isolated, a lot harder to come in in large numbers without proper vetting. Also a lot easier for our intelligence to keep an eye on relatively small numbers ....
Typically outstanding analysis of the situation, MB:

Estimated muslim population of US - 3.3 million
Estimated muslim population of UK - 2.8 million
Total population America 321 million
Total population UK 65 million

Typically superficial analysis of the situation TR.

Out of curiosity how would you explain why Australia and America have been relatively lucky despite our policies?
I really don't want to get drawn back into the constantly shifting abyss of your 'argument' MB.

For a start, man up and take responsibility for your words. You said "a lot harder to come in in large numbers without proper vetting". That is an absolute. I pointed out that you were wrong. You then shifted that argument to be " Well, you know, compared to the rest of the population", as if terrorism only commences once it hits a certain percentage or something. You'd have a lot more credibility here (up from none), if just once in your life you could actually follow a consistent line of thought without shifting the goal posts each time you are refuted. " Sorry, I was wrong." Try it.
Wow seriously mate, you don't see how population size is very relevant to any argument about numbers, you are surely being purely contrarian now. Population size comes into integration, the amount a security agents, the ability to do more vetting, America unlike Europe also hasn't had the same sudden influx.

Come on mate percentages always matter when you're talking numbers, your piss taking is too obvious with that one.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by Manbush »

T_R wrote:
Manbush wrote:
The difference is Christians have learnt to cherry pick the Bible those passages aren't taught as instructions to follow, can you say the same about all of Islam?

Edit: in an effort to clear up my narrative I should point out all Muslims also cherry pick the Quran (either the good or the bad just like Christians) and without Christianity enjoying the benefit of secularim and the Age of Enlightenment I doubt we'd see the version we have today.
Translation: I just realised what I wrote was utterly, utterly stupid, even by my own standards. Therefore, I will 'clear up' my narrative to mean precisely the opposite to what I originally said.


Thank Manbush, you're on fire.
Dude you know full well what I meant.

While the good and bad exist both in the Quran and the Bible in the west the worst that is taught is homosexuality is evil you cannot say the same within all sects of Islam. What percentages of Christians believe apostates should be killed, that adulterers should be stoned, that people who insult their religion should be killed, you're intelligent enough to understand that point but your piss taking is getting ridiculous.
Last edited by Manbush on June 6, 2017, 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by T_R »

Manbush wrote:

Wow seriously mate, you don't see how population size is very relevant to any argument about numbers, you are surely being purely contrarian now. Population size comes into integration, the amount a security agents, the ability to do more vetting, America unlike Europe also hasn't had the same sudden influx.

Come on mate percentages always matter when you're talking numbers, your piss taking is too obvious with that one.
And there we have it. In each of these threads, you hit a point that you become confused about your own argument. It normally takes until a little later in the day and about 20 half-understood Google quotes, but I guess you've gone off a little early today.
Image

Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by T_R »

dubby wrote: Matthew 5 38-40

[2:62] Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.


Seems that we're all forgetting the nice bits lately :(
Image

Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by Manbush »

T_R wrote:
Manbush wrote:

Wow seriously mate, you don't see how population size is very relevant to any argument about numbers, you are surely being purely contrarian now. Population size comes into integration, the amount a security agents, the ability to do more vetting, America unlike Europe also hasn't had the same sudden influx.

Come on mate percentages always matter when you're talking numbers, your piss taking is too obvious with that one.
And there we have it. In each of these threads, you hit a point that you become confused about your own argument. It normally takes until a little later in the day and about 20 half-understood Google quotes, but I guess you've gone off a little early today.
No confusion mate but when I'm having a conversation with an adult I do expect some level of honesty and common sense, when talking numbers most adults would take percentages into account, the fact I know you're intelligent enough to know that but let it go over your head deliberately just shows you're more interested in taking the piss and being dishonest to score points.

Just once it would be great to have an open and honest conversation with you when you're not taking the puss or being disingenuous, you would have had a lot of interesting experiences to pick your brain about, guessing that's more likely in person as online I can never tell if you're being genuine or not.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by dubby »

T_R wrote:
dubby wrote: Matthew 5 38-40

[2:62] Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.


Seems that we're all forgetting the nice bits lately :(
That's where terrorism wins. It brings division, hatred, intolerance, anger, fear to new levels.

All through extreme acts.



Sent from my ZTE T815 using The Greenhouse mobile app powered by Tapatalk
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by Manbush »

dubby wrote:
T_R wrote:
dubby wrote: Matthew 5 38-40

[2:62] Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.


Seems that we're all forgetting the nice bits lately :(
That's where terrorism wins. It brings division, hatred, intolerance, anger, fear to new levels.

All through extreme acts.
Which is why we can't let it divide, can't let Trumps narrative win out. Identify the actual issues and address them rather than blanket blames or blanket denials, needs a united effort.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by Green eyed Mick »

Manbush wrote:
dubby wrote:
T_R wrote:
dubby wrote: Matthew 5 38-40

[2:62] Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.


Seems that we're all forgetting the nice bits lately :(
That's where terrorism wins. It brings division, hatred, intolerance, anger, fear to new levels.

All through extreme acts.
Which is why we can't let it divide, can't let Trumps narrative win out. Identify the actual issues and address them rather than blanket blames or blanket denials, needs a united effort.
When you use terms like good and bad Muslims are you not being divisive?
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by Manbush »

Well there are good and bad in everything that's a simple fact, bad dividing IMO would be blaming all Muslims.

I think this man sums it up correctly.

Quilliam Chief Executive Haras Rafiq echoed UK Prime Minister Theresa May when he said the issue of Islamist terror needs to be discussed.

“Enough is enough – we need action now and not tip-toeing around the issue. The only way to defeat this type of extremism and terrorism is for Government and all British communities to unashamedly name, shame and challenge the threat,” he said.

“That includes the ideology that is underpinning it. The ideology has its roots in Islamist inspired Salafi Jihadism and we must all admit the problem before we can attempt to challenge it”

Quilliam by the way is a counter extremism organisation run by Muslims founded by three former Islamists, they've previously spread the ideology they are talking about.

Whatever you think of my views they are shaped by Muslims, ex Muslims and people from Muslim countries.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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-TW-
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by -TW- »

It's interesting that it's always religion that gets front and centre in this stuff, and mental health barely gets mentioned.

IS are going to claim anything that happens, whether it's coordinated by them or not

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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by Green eyed Mick »

-TW- wrote:It's interesting that it's always religion that gets front and centre in this stuff, and mental health barely gets mentioned.

IS are going to claim anything that happens, whether it's coordinated by them or not

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It's hard to get gullible rubes fired up over decades of chronic under investment in mental health and kleptocratic economic policies that have torn apart the social safety net and destroyed the lives of 10's of millions across the Middle East.

Manbush wrote:Well there are good and bad in everything that's a simple fact, bad dividing IMO would be blaming all Muslims.

I think this man sums it up correctly.

Quilliam Chief Executive Haras Rafiq echoed UK Prime Minister Theresa May when he said the issue of Islamist terror needs to be discussed.

“Enough is enough – we need action now and not tip-toeing around the issue. The only way to defeat this type of extremism and terrorism is for Government and all British communities to unashamedly name, shame and challenge the threat,” he said.

“That includes the ideology that is underpinning it. The ideology has its roots in Islamist inspired Salafi Jihadism and we must all admit the problem before we can attempt to challenge it”

Quilliam by the way is a counter extremism organisation run by Muslims founded by three former Islamists, they've previously spread the ideology they are talking about.

Whatever you think of my views they are shaped by Muslims, ex Muslims and people from Muslim countries.
Quilliam are an anti-terror industry lobbyist. These people make a very good living offering simple solutions to incredibly complex problems. Islam is but one piece of a very complicated jigsaw and any solution that doesn't address each of the pieces is doomed to fail and may even make things worse.
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by Manbush »

Quilliam doesn't deny there are other pieces involved GEM quite the opposite they look at what drives people to radicalization which encompasses even all the things the left also blames for terrorism. These people have lived it mate, if you think they just look at easy solutions you should really pay more attention to what they actually say. They are in the firing line of both the left and the right because they don't look for the simple solutions, they acknowledge both sides actually have some valid arguments but go too far, it's more complicated than what the left and right make out.

Edit: can't find the link I read the other day but it was one of their members talking about 4 paths to radicalization, all four mentioned grievances which fits in with the lefts narrative, the problem I think you and others on the far left have with them is that they also acknowledge Islam does play a role. IMO if you're copping it from both extremes of an argument you're probably on the correct track as it's never as simple as either extreme wants to paint it to be.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by T_R »

Manbush wrote: IMO if you're copping it from both extremes of an argument you're probably on the correct track as it's never as simple as either extreme wants to paint it to be.
Now THERE's a revealing moment.

Just so you realise, MB...sometimes when you 'cop it' from both sides of an argument, it's because you're wrong and saying demonstrably stupid things.

Reflect on that for a moment.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by Manbush »

:lol:
Generally it's contracting like on this issue being called both an islamophobe by the left and a Muslim apologist by the right. If you criticise anything to do with Islam you're an Islamaphobe and if you defend Muslims you're an apologist.

It's like Nawaz, a man who is fighting islamaphobia and fighting for Muslims being listed by the southern poverty law center as an anti Muslim extremist because he also fights against Islamism, yet hated by the right because he's a Muslim, can't win with either of the extreme views.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by gerg »

T_R wrote:
gergreg wrote:T_R. Bush may have been the cause but we have a situation now where terrorists aren't specifically retaliating against 'Bush' or US interests.
Oh, absolutely. But just as I doubt that many people here make any effort to distinguish between, say, Sunni, Shia, Shafi'i, Wahabi or whatever, 'the West' has become a convenient amalgam for the radical.
gergreg wrote:It now seems at the point where asylum seekers are migrating not for a better life for themselves but to bring misery to others lives.
Nope, bridge too far.
gergreg wrote:It's too flippant for my liking to just suggest we have to now live with it.
I agree. Your solution is?
gergreg wrote:Would you have that same attitude if one of your loved ones was caught up in something?
Can't answer that. I feel sick at the thought, as I imagine do the hundreds of thousands of Muslims to have suffered through Bush's war and the aftermath. They're real people, too.
gergreg wrote:Manbush is right that there should be a clampdown on radical sects.


Sure. How?
gergreg wrote:I really don't think you can compare Christian nut jobs shooting up abortion clinics and these terrorists. It's a bit of a straw man argument.
I agree. Muslim car bombs are completely different to Catholic car bombs, and being shot by a radical Shiite feels completely different to being shot by a radical evangelical Christian.

Not having a go at you, by the way - sincerely. I completely understand the growing concerns here. Hell, I was sitting in that pub in London a few months ago, and walked across London Bridge a dozen times in January this year. It's terrifying. I honestly just don't see answers here, and the utter claptrap that is being spouted by the closeted bigots like Manbush cures nothing.
I don't have the answers to any of your questions but clearly things need to change. Sitting around and waiting for Bush (or any PUSA)to face trial for war crimes or sitting around waiting for terrorism to just stop isn't going to magically happen. There has to be a way for everyone to coexist. It's just horrible seeing all this hatred in the world.
Shoving it in your face since 2017
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by T_R »

Manbush wrote:Image
Generally it's contracting like on this issue being called both an islamophobe by the left and a Muslim apologist by the right. If you criticise anything to do with Islam you're an Islamaphobe and if you defend Muslims you're an apologist.

It's like Nawaz, a man who is fighting islamaphobia and fighting for Muslims being listed by the southern poverty law center as an anti Muslim extremist because he also fights against Islamism, yet hated by the right because he's a Muslim, can't win with either of the extreme views.
Although I understand that you embrace your self image as Greenhouse Martyr, MB, that you'd attempt to clumsily liken yourself to Maajid Nawaz should make you blush.
Image

Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by Manbush »

Sharing his views I do receive similar criticisms that's the only comparison, obviously not being a Muslim I only get the criticism from the right for defending Muslims not being one, and from the left I get the criticism of criticising parts of Islam not the not being Muslim enough for their narrative. Haven't received anywhere near the amount of death threats either :lol:
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by Green eyed Mick »

Manbush wrote:Quilliam doesn't deny there are other pieces involved GEM quite the opposite they look at what drives people to radicalization which encompasses even all the things the left also blames for terrorism. These people have lived it mate, if you think they just look at easy solutions you should really pay more attention to what they actually say. They are in the firing line of both the left and the right because they don't look for the simple solutions, they acknowledge both sides actually have some valid arguments but go too far, it's more complicated than what the left and right make out.

Edit: can't find the link I read the other day but it was one of their members talking about 4 paths to radicalization, all four mentioned grievances which fits in with the lefts narrative, the problem I think you and others on the far left have with them is that they also acknowledge Islam does play a role. IMO if you're copping it from both extremes of an argument you're probably on the correct track as it's never as simple as either extreme wants to paint it to be.
Of course Islam plays a role but there are many other factors of equal, greater or lesser importance depending on the individual in question. Every individual has a different path to radicalisation. The solution, if there is one is to offer more attractive paths for those most at risk.
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by Manbush »

Can't disagree with that at all GEM
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by Green eyed Mick »

Manbush wrote:Can't disagree with that at all GEM
Great so no more posting about Islamic terrorism :D It's just plain old terrorism from now on, just like it is when a white person shoots up a school or a US pilot drops a bomb on an apartment block in Mosul.
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by Archer »

Hold on a minute, you were in London T_R and you didn't organise a GH pub trip!?!?! As bad as Pigman and his Tupperware..
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by Manbush »

GEM I'll call it what it is, when it's Christian terrorism I'll call it Christian terrorism, when it's Islamist terrorism I'll call it that as well, if its white supremacists I'll call them outl, if it's just murder I'll call it just that regardless of faith of the killer (which is what I think happened yesterday in Australia).

Yesterday with the abortion clinic shooting example I stick by that isn't actually taught, something I forgot until another example appeared today was parents being charged for murder for not seeking medical help for their sick child, now that is definitely taught in some denominations of Christianity and is disgusting.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by T_R »

Archer wrote:Hold on a minute, you were in London T_R and you didn't organise a GH pub trip!?!?! As bad as Pigman and his Tupperware..
Spent January there...little apartment hanging over the Thames. God, it was lovely, despite being January in London. Dragged the kids around to every museum and art gallery in the place.

No excuse for no pub night, other than it being off season. Will be back in time for the finals series!

I cant get view out of my mind....damn, I'd love to spend a year or two there.

Image
Image

Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by T_R »

Manbush wrote:GEM I'll call it what it is, when it's Christian terrorism I'll call it Christian terrorism, when it's Islamist terrorism I'll call it that as well, if its white supremacists I'll call them outl, if it's just murder I'll call it just that regardless of faith of the killer (which is what I think happened yesterday in Australia).
You're the hero we need, MB.
Image

Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by Manbush »

I wouldn't say the one you need more like the one you deserve :D
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by Manbush »

Looks like another one, an attack at a mosque :(

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.the ... jured/amp/

I'm guessing it's a white terrorist "revenge" attack against a mosque with a checkered reputation.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by Botman »

That's not a terrorist attack, MB
The guy was white attacking muzzies. Nothing to see here, move along.
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Re: Terrorist attacks

Post by Green eyed Mick »

Interesting how our politicians aren't falling over themselves to condemn the attack and express solidarity with the victims.
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