Terrorist attacks

[The Nickman]

I think there is a lot of everyday Muslims right now who are more concerned about sheltering themselves from abuse, rather than wanting to get into a big March making some grandiose and ultimately pointless public statement like that

Spot on so far. And people keep saying rubbish like "well maybe in Rocky they do", but the simple fact of the matter is, and highlighted by Cranky's post earlier, this abuse is commonplace across all of Australia, even in SB's precious Canberra.

[Schifty]

I'm waiting for the White Christians to have a big "Not in my name" rally against the KKK who are still very wide spread in the US.

We should actually stop all white Christian Americans entering Australia as they might be KKK.

[Shadow Boxer]

Yeh, definitely not a March, that would be all wrong messaging. In thinking more a happy Sunday afternoon gathering where all are welcome. Food and dancing.

The bogan threat is all blowhards Imo and there's a great park where they hold the Glebe markets where the neighbourhood would love to see them.

Maybe they couldn't get the numbers or it's a cultural thing but my bulldogs mates aren't really the shy retiring types, pretty sure they would be OK.

[-TW-]

Just saw one duncebook that the US created ISIS and they've just gone rogue...

[Schifty]

Well Bush and co certainly did their part in helping createSIS when they completely ruined Iraq, but that was a response against them rather then being some sort of US backed group that turned on their pay master going by going "Rogue"

[The Nickman]

Yeh, definitely not a March, that would be all wrong messaging. In thinking more a happy Sunday afternoon gathering where all are welcome. Food and dancing.

The bogan threat is all blowhards Imo and there's a great park where they hold the Glebe markets where the neighbourhood would love to see them.

Maybe they couldn't get the numbers or it's a cultural thing but my bulldogs mates aren't really the shy retiring types, pretty sure they would be OK.

You see, this is where we disagree. It's not just "bogans" or "blowhards", it's a significant number of the Australian population!!

Please refer to Cranky's original post once again.

[Notaroboticfish]

I went to work today and I there were quite a few people making jokes about this. It annoyed the **** out of me.

[Shadow Boxer]

Yeh, definitely not a March, that would be all wrong messaging. In thinking more a happy Sunday afternoon gathering where all are welcome. Food and dancing.

The bogan threat is all blowhards Imo and there's a great park where they hold the Glebe markets where the neighbourhood would love to see them.

Maybe they couldn't get the numbers or it's a cultural thing but my bulldogs mates aren't really the shy retiring types, pretty sure they would be OK.

You see, this is where we disagree. It's not just "bogans" or "blowhards", it's a significant number of the Australian population!!

Please refer to Cranky's original post once again.

Yeh I know what you're saying, I'm just throwing ideas out, theres a pr war going on as well.

As com said it won't be solved by rednecks or apologists, they need to seize the middle ground and humanise the issue.

The approach at the moment of rolling out a mufti just isn't cutting through.

[The Nickman]

Yeh, definitely not a March, that would be all wrong messaging. In thinking more a happy Sunday afternoon gathering where all are welcome. Food and dancing.

The bogan threat is all blowhards Imo and there's a great park where they hold the Glebe markets where the neighbourhood would love to see them.

Maybe they couldn't get the numbers or it's a cultural thing but my bulldogs mates aren't really the shy retiring types, pretty sure they would be OK.

You see, this is where we disagree. It's not just "bogans" or "blowhards", it's a significant number of the Australian population!!

Please refer to Cranky's original post once again.

Yeh I know what you're saying, I'm just throwing ideas out, theres a pr war going on as well.

As com said it won't be solved by rednecks or apologists, they need to seize the middle ground and humanise the issue.

The approach at the moment of rolling out a mufti just isn't cutting through.

Yeah, I agree with that, SB. Something needs to be done, and soon, before this gets WAY out of control.

[Schifty]

The smart guy glasses Chris Pyne found in the toilet worked. He just 100% nailed what Bush and Co. completely messed up in Iraq.

[Manbush]

I'm not sure a march would be pointless, get a large number showing they're against the extremists be good publicity and would garner support from the fence sitters plus show any young Muslims in Australia who are being tempted that Isis isn't the way. They marched when a film was released insulting Islam why not now when Isis is insulting their view of Islam.

[Manbush]

An atheist and Muslim call on all Muslims to help reform Islam so it is more modern, not used for evil

http://mobile.news.com.au/entertainment ... 7586147786

These two nailed the difficulty Islam faces a few weeks ago.

[Archer]

Honestly MB, they shouldn't need to, it's as simple as that.

ISIS wan't the issue to be a religious one. They wan't it to be 'us against them' because then they can recruit. They love those social media posts which blame a large group of people for the actions of a small minority after a tragedy like this, because it's a hell of a lot easier to recruit those who have learned to hate through being being a victim of hate themselves. Without that type of reaction, everyone can see the tragedy for what it was, a cowardly attack, murdering random people living out their lives doing every day things, by some group of nut-jobs. No-one should be expected to have to publicly condemn it (and defend themselves in doing so), because it's a given that they don't support something so disgusting.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why people are angry (who wouldn't be) and I know that when something as senseless and horrifying as this occurs, people want someone to blame and aren't thinking very rationally. But my Muslim friends have as much to do with that violence as I did... absolutely nothing. I'm certain it appals them too, without having to ask.

The fact is, disgusting people will find a way to manipulate large groups of people into doing horrible things. Religion is a convenient way of them doing it, but we see similar things with sporting fan bases attacking other fans or people attacking others because of their skin colour or social standing. It's a means of doing it, not the cause.

[Archer]

Another thing, it's sad to say but it feels like this latest series of attacks have been particularly effective at achieving what they set out to do, dividing people and instilling fear. Maybe its because I'm closer to it this time, but in years gone by I remember thinking about how bad it was but never being seriously concerned for my safety. Now I'm genuinely worried about what may happen in London and I'm also really unsure about travelling out of it. Previously I had a picture in my head of 'safe destinations' and 'unsafe destinations' and since I avoided those unsafe destinations, never really gave it a second thought. The problem is, France used to be one of those I considered a safe destination. It's shaken me a bit I think.

[Manbush]

Honestly MB, they shouldn't need to, it's as simple as that.

ISIS wan't the issue to be a religious one.

That's the thing with marches, you never need to it's just a symbolic show of strength for a cause you're passionate about, Muslisms didn't need to march against that movie but they felt strongly so they did.

It is a religious issue, yes the majority of Muslims are good but cannot deny its based on religion. Until the good ones deal with the parts of their religion which enables the violence within its going to continue to happen in their name.

[simo]

Honestly MB, they shouldn't need to, it's as simple as that.

ISIS wan't the issue to be a religious one.

That's the thing with marches, you never need to it's just a symbolic show of strength for a cause you're passionate about, Muslisms didn't need to march against that movie but they felt strongly so they did.

It is a religious issue, yes the majority of Muslims are good but cannot deny its based on religion. Until the good ones deal with the parts of their religion which enables the violence within its going to continue to happen in their name.

thats the beauty of religion. When something is made up then it can be interpreted any way you want.

[Manbush]

Yep and when the book contains passages on killing infidels, dominating the world and the hero was a violent warlord it doesn't take much to interpret it that way, throw in a reward of 72 virgins and eternal happiness and the temptation is set.

[simo]

Youre not meant to follow "that" part. Der

[Manbush]

And here it is, the dumbest comment yet.

Christian Pastor Criticizes Paris Terror Attack Victims for Attending “Death Metal” Concert

Christian Pastor Steven Anderson spent part of his sermon yesterday telling his congregation that, while he doesn’t condone the actions of the Paris attackers, the concertgoers at the Bataclan theater who were there to listen to the band Eagles of Death Metal sorta had it coming:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... l-concert/

[simo]

They arent even death metal...... You win this round internet

[Archer]

Honestly MB, they shouldn't need to, it's as simple as that.

ISIS wan't the issue to be a religious one.

That's the thing with marches, you never need to it's just a symbolic show of strength for a cause you're passionate about, Muslisms didn't need to march against that movie but they felt strongly so they did.

It is a religious issue, yes the majority of Muslims are good but cannot deny its based on religion. Until the good ones deal with the parts of their religion which enables the violence within its going to continue to happen in their name.

It's not based on religion at all. Religion is the tool ISIS are using to manipulate and convince people to join them sure, but history has shown there are plenty of other ways. Put it this way, if the statistics revealed that 90% of the shootings in America were committed by atheists and people started shouting about how it was because these people "Didn't have god and it was these beliefs that led them to doing it" or some such, wouldn't you find that ridiculous? What if People started shouting about the fact that most of these people are Men? The very idea that you ,as someone with no connection at all to them other than one set of beliefs you hold, should need to somehow apologise or prove you don't condone it...

[simo]

So isis are using religion exactly how others do?

[simo]

And archer, drawing on a hypothetical statistic only extends the length of your point, not its quality

[The Nickman]

Archer your last three posts are absolutely spot on. I couldn't agree more

[Manbush]

Honestly MB, they shouldn't need to, it's as simple as that.

ISIS wan't the issue to be a religious one.

That's the thing with marches, you never need to it's just a symbolic show of strength for a cause you're passionate about, Muslisms didn't need to march against that movie but they felt strongly so they did.

It is a religious issue, yes the majority of Muslims are good but cannot deny its based on religion. Until the good ones deal with the parts of their religion which enables the violence within its going to continue to happen in their name.

It's not based on religion at all. Religion is the tool ISIS are using to manipulate and convince people to join them sure, but history has shown there are plenty of other ways. Put it this way, if the statistics revealed that 90% of the shootings in America were committed by atheists and people started shouting about how it was because these people "Didn't have god and it was these beliefs that led them to doing it" or some such, wouldn't you find that ridiculous? What if People started shouting about the fact that most of these people are Men? The very idea that you ,as someone with no connection at all to them other than one set of beliefs you hold, should need to somehow apologise or prove you don't condone it...

The differences between the examples you gave are atheists and men don't have a book they live their life by which contain passages which endorse said behavior nor idolise someone who did the exact same thing, they are following in their prophets footsteps, i.e. your comparisons are deliberately ignoring what inspires their behavior.

Yes they are the vast minority but they are doing it because of their interpretation of Islam, by ignoring that you are ignoring the cause and will nver be able to solve the issues, as the article I posted above says Islam needs to reform and address the issues within that enable it to be so misused.

[Green eyed Mick]

I think a march would be a great idea. White Australians marching against decades of political and military interference in the Middle East and North Africa. Marching to apologise for the death and destruction brought down upon the people of Iraq as a direct result of our illegal invasion and occupation of their country.

Solidarity with Muslim people is what's needed. Not another demand for the Muslim world to take responsibility for something they played no part in.

[gangrenous]

About the only good March would be all Australians out marching together to say **** you terrorists

And that would probably still be giving the terrorists too much acknowledgment.

[Shadow Boxer]

I think a march would be a great idea. White Australians marching against decades of political and military interference in the Middle East and North Africa. Marching to apologise for the death and destruction brought down upon the people of Iraq as a direct result of our illegal invasion and occupation of their country.

Solidarity with Muslim people is what's needed. Not another demand for the Muslim world to take responsibility for something they played no part in.

See its this type of rhetoric that is really unhelpful.

Its a passive/aggressive confused message, just like Adam hill comparing terrorism to dying from an allergic reaction to a bee sting or the Mufti today.

Dr Ibrahim Abu Mohammed has been slammed for issuing a statement on the Paris atrocities in which he insinuated ­Islamophobia was a cause of the massacre.

His statement said “causative factors” of the terror attacks were racism and Islamophobia, and that they needed to be addressed.

“These recent incidents highlight the fact that current strategies to deal with the threat of terrorism are not working,” Dr Mohammed said.

“It is therefore imperative that all causative factors such as racism, Islamophobia, curtailing freedoms through securitisation, duplicitous foreign policies and military intervention must be comprehensively addressed.”

Nobody should be marching anywhere or hating or blaming anyone else except the terrorists. What is needed is calm heads and an inherent faith in peoples basic decency.

What the mufti should have said is

"all muslims abhor the violence perpetrated in a twisted example of our faith and walk in solidarity with the victims of terrorism everywhere. In a show of solidarity with fair minded people all over Australia we will be gathering in Hyde park to mourn our brothers and sisters, raise funds for the victims and families and celebrate the combined values that make Australia great.

Mean people on both sides are not welcome."

[Green eyed Mick]

What's not helpful is regular Australians, Americans and Europeans demanding accountability from Muslim leaders while flatly refusing to acknowledge and address the illegal wars, political interference and domestic policies that have played a significant part in making Isis and radicalising the marginalised and oppressed

[The Nickman]

^ I hate to say it, but the dirty hippy's right

[Shadow Boxer]

Carry on yelling at people then, it's going well so far.

[The Nickman]

The problem is though, everybody's yelling at everybody right now, SB. It's exactly what people like ISIS want.

[Shadow Boxer]

That's kinda my point...

[The Nickman]

No, that's kinda MY point!

[Shadow Boxer]

haha, in the words of the great Russell Dunbar, it kinda is.....