One signal will put an end to all religions

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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by Green_Hammock »

They have the same rights as us, they can't get married to someone of the same gender and neither can we. I believe that homosexuality is wrong, but it doesn't mean I have anything against any of the gay people I know.
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by Green eyed Mick »

Green_Hammock wrote:They have the same rights as us, they can't get married to someone of the same gender and neither can we. I believe that homosexuality is wrong, but it doesn't mean I have anything against any of the gay people I know.
Have you told the 'gay people that you know' that you believe they were born wrong? Or do you keep that to yourself?
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by Green_Hammock »

Green eyed Mick wrote:
Green_Hammock wrote:They have the same rights as us, they can't get married to someone of the same gender and neither can we. I believe that homosexuality is wrong, but it doesn't mean I have anything against any of the gay people I know.
Have you told the 'gay people that you know' that you believe they were born wrong? Or do you keep that to yourself?
If they asked me I would tell them my views and no I don't believe that anyone was born that way.
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by dubby »

Gem, gay marriage will be legalised eventually
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by dubby »

I do have a link which offers some interesting and intelligent information regarding the bible and same sex marriage sex etc.
It's definitely worth a look. I just can't figure out how to cut and paste the link using tapatalk
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by Green eyed Mick »

Green_Hammock wrote:
Green eyed Mick wrote:
Green_Hammock wrote:They have the same rights as us, they can't get married to someone of the same gender and neither can we. I believe that homosexuality is wrong, but it doesn't mean I have anything against any of the gay people I know.
Have you told the 'gay people that you know' that you believe they were born wrong? Or do you keep that to yourself?
If they asked me I would tell them my views and no I don't believe that anyone was born that way.
Being gay is no more a choice than having blue eyes is a choice.
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by Green_Hammock »

Well I disagree. I've known gay people who have become straight after coming to Christ.
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by Wiggy »

Green_Hammock wrote:Well I disagree. I've known gay people who have become straight after coming to Christ.
At which point did you make the choice to be straight? How did you come to your decision?
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by Green_Hammock »

I believe that everyone is born straight because that is the way that God designed us to be. You can disagree with me and that's fine.
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by simo »

Wiggy wrote:
Green_Hammock wrote:Well I disagree. I've known gay people who have become straight after coming to Christ.
At which point did you make the choice to be straight? How did you come to your decision?
a mariah carey poster from a magazine. 8 year old me knew he wanted to do that. 28 year old me knows he has let 8 year old me down
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by Wiggy »

Green_Hammock wrote:I believe that everyone is born straight because that is the way that God designed us to be. You can disagree with me and that's fine.
So you choose to be gay, but you don't choose to straight?

..... right.

You admit yourself, you don't have that personal experience (you never had to choose), so I'll take the word of millions of gay people who say they didn't choose to be gay (who do have that personal experience).

Unless of course all the gay people are lying? I personally think that's unlikely.
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by simo »

Wiggy wrote:
Green_Hammock wrote:I believe that everyone is born straight because that is the way that God designed us to be. You can disagree with me and that's fine.
So you choose to be gay, but you don't choose to straight?

..... right.

You admit yourself, you don't have that personal experience (you never had to choose), so I'll take the word of millions of gay people who say they didn't choose to be gay (who do have that personal experience).

Unless of course all the gay people are lying? I personally think that's unlikely.
theyre already living in sin so theres a fair chance that lying isnt out of their reach
In all seriousness though, why does someone else sexuality preference worry you so much. I dont see the homosexual community rising up and fabulising your way of life any time soon
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by Green_Hammock »

I didn't say they have to choose, I think something happens in their childhood that makes them that way so it's not necessarily a conscious choice. However it is a conscious choice to stay that way, just like any sin it can be stopped. Like before I was a Christian I did plenty of bad things, I'm in no way above any other person out there but by the grace of God He has changed me and continues to do so.
Like I said, you have your opinion and that's fine with me but I'm just stating what I believe.
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by simo »

Green_Hammock wrote:I didn't say they have to choose, I think something happens in their childhood that makes them that way so it's not necessarily a conscious choice. However it is a conscious choice to stay that way, just like any sin it can be stopped. Like before I was a Christian I did plenty of bad things, I'm in no way above any other person out there but by the grace of God He has changed me and continues to do so.
Like I said, you have your opinion and that's fine with me but I'm just stating what I believe.
this is why stereotypes exist.
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by Green_Hammock »

simo wrote:
Wiggy wrote:
Green_Hammock wrote:I believe that everyone is born straight because that is the way that God designed us to be. You can disagree with me and that's fine.
So you choose to be gay, but you don't choose to straight?

..... right.

You admit yourself, you don't have that personal experience (you never had to choose), so I'll take the word of millions of gay people who say they didn't choose to be gay (who do have that personal experience).

Unless of course all the gay people are lying? I personally think that's unlikely.
theyre already living in sin so theres a fair chance that lying isnt out of their reach
In all seriousness though, why does someone else sexuality preference worry you so much. I dont see the homosexual community rising up and fabulising your way of life any time soon
It doesn't!! As I said, I'm stating my opinion. I don't go around criticising gay people. I have gay friends and I work closely with some, if they ask me my opinion on their lifestyle I will tell them but I don't force my views upon them because as I'm seeing here they are often misunderstood and insulting to some. I believe what the bible says about homosexuals, that it's wrong, but it's not necessarily worse than any other sin I've done.
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by Wiggy »

Green_Hammock wrote:I didn't say they have to choose, I think something happens in their childhood that makes them that way so it's not necessarily a conscious choice. However it is a conscious choice to stay that way, just like any sin it can be stopped. Like before I was a Christian I did plenty of bad things, I'm in no way above any other person out there but by the grace of God He has changed me and continues to do so.
Like I said, you have your opinion and that's fine with me but I'm just stating what I believe.
Beliefs are fine. Everyone is entitled to think what they want.

It's actions that I have a problem with. I read 100's of stories of people hurt by the fact they can't marry the people they love. As someone who doesn't have that restriction I think thats ridiculous.

It would cost me absolutely nothing.. nothing in tax... nothing in time... nothing in anything, if these people were allowed to marry. So obviously they should be allowed to, right? Why should something be stopped that doesn't effect anyone else?

So why isn't it legal yet? Well, it's not legal because of the actions (not the beliefs) of groups like the Australian Christian Lobby. People like hiding behind "it's just my belief", but that shield isn't valid if you actively fight against a group even if what they want doesn't effect you in any way.
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by Green_Hammock »

I understand that view, in fact I used to hold the same view. It doesn't effect me directly, I don't want to rob them of happiness, however I don't think they should call it marriage. The bible says that marriage is between a man and a woman and I stick with that. Same sex marriage is almost inevitably going to happen, it won't ruin my life when it does, but I won't support it.
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by Green eyed Mick »

dubby wrote:Gem, gay marriage will be legalised eventually
Indeed and history will judge opponents of gay marriage as harshly as it has judged the opponents of other civil rights and equality movements of the past.
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by reptar »

Did I just read this right?
Gina Riley: Oh, come on, John. That’s a bit old hat, the corrupt IOC delegate.
John Clarke: Old hat? Gina, in the scientific world when they see that something is happening again and again and again, repeatedly, they don’t call it old hat. They call it a pattern.
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by Manbush »

Green_Hammock wrote:I understand that view, in fact I used to hold the same view. It doesn't effect me directly, I don't want to rob them of happiness, however I don't think they should call it marriage. The bible says that marriage is between a man and a woman and I stick with that. Same sex marriage is almost inevitably going to happen, it won't ruin my life when it does, but I won't support it.
Why should the bible define marriage though, it happened before the bible was written and originally had nothing to do with religion, using a book to define something which predates the said book makes no sense.
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by simo »

Manbush wrote:
Green_Hammock wrote:I understand that view, in fact I used to hold the same view. It doesn't effect me directly, I don't want to rob them of happiness, however I don't think they should call it marriage. The bible says that marriage is between a man and a woman and I stick with that. Same sex marriage is almost inevitably going to happen, it won't ruin my life when it does, but I won't support it.
Why should the bible define marriage though, it happened before the bible was written and originally had nothing to do with religion, using a book to define something which predates the said book makes no sense.
we use dictionaries to define words that are already in existence
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by Toviii »

:lol:
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by Wiggy »

Manbush wrote:using a book to define something which predates the said book makes no sense.
...That awkward moment when someone who is arguing on the same side as you, makes an argument so bad, you feel like arguing the other side.
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by Manbush »

True, but not totally redefine words (additional meanings can be added).
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by Green_Hammock »

To me the bible is the word of God and not just a book.
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by Green eyed Mick »

Green_Hammock wrote:To me the bible is the word of God and not just a book.
If the Bible is the word of God why do you ignore so much of it?
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by dubby »

Green eyed Mick wrote:
dubby wrote:
Green eyed Mick wrote:
dubby wrote:The eternal damnation in a firey hell is not really true, but doesn't prevent some fanatics from spouting it.
You, and everyone else has a right not to believe
And I don't worship God because he is going to 'smite' everyone who says no to him.
Jesus doesn't have an issue with gay people either but it doesn't stop fanatics from spouting it.
But he opposes the act of homosexuality. But I agree he loves the person.
Do you have a reference?
OK :)

Bare with me, this might be long, but hopefully you get the point.

First of all, you are right. Jesus doesn't have an issue with gay people. He doesn't have an issue with anyone (unless you were a Pharisee, he said some harsh words to them). That's because Jesus wants all to come to the Father, he wants all to live so none may die.

The bible reference I was thinking of is Mark 7 20-23:

20 And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man.” (NKJV)

The apostle Paul, in one of his letters to the Corinthians, wrote the verses most often quoted on this subject:

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (NIV, 1st Corinthians 6:9-11)

This verse has been translated in as many different ways as there are different versions of the Bible, so we have to look at the original Greek to see what Paul was really saying. The word translated here as "male prostitute" is the Greek word malakos which literally means "soft to the touch." However, it was used metaphorically to refer to a catamite (a boy kept for sexual relations with a man) or to a male prostitute in general. The word translated here as "homosexual offender" is the Greek word arsenokoites which means a sodomite, a person who engages in any kind of unnatural sex, but especially homosexual intercourse. Some believe this use of arsenokoites referred specifically to the men who kept catamites, but that is not certain.
As with many Bible topics, there are uncertainties and different opinions about how the Biblical evidence should be interpreted. The challenge of accurate interpretation is to determine what message was originally intended, how it was understood by people of that time, and how the lesson should be applied in our own time. That involves a lot of specialized knowledge of the original Biblical languages as well as the culture and issues of those times. The Bible often speaks of sexual matters in euphemistic and vague terms, and there is a lack of understanding of how Biblical-era people used and understood those terms.

Prejudices, fears and misconceptions about homosexuality are deeply rooted in our culture. The subject evokes strong emotions which may hinder understanding it from a Biblical perspective. Many common beliefs and attitudes about homosexuality actually have their origins in our cultural traditions rather than in the Bible. The Bible prohibits homosexual intercourse but does not treat it as one of the major sins. There are only 7 Bible passages on this topic, and it is not one of the major sins mentioned in the Ten Commandments or by Jesus. (In comparison, the sin of hatred is mentioned 21 times, lying and false testimony 30, greed, avarice and covetousness 40, theft 42, adultery 52, murder 57, self-righteousness 79, and idolatry 169 times.) When read in context, a majority of the Bible passages refer to specific homosexual practices which violate other important Bible prohibitions such as idolatry, rape, prostitution or pederasty.

So to me, it's clear God is saying "I don't like that act, but I love you anyway."
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by Shadow Boxer »

Yep, that seems a compelling argument against gay marriage :roll:
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by Green eyed Mick »

dubby wrote:
Green eyed Mick wrote:
dubby wrote:
Green eyed Mick wrote:
dubby wrote:The eternal damnation in a firey hell is not really true, but doesn't prevent some fanatics from spouting it.
You, and everyone else has a right not to believe
And I don't worship God because he is going to 'smite' everyone who says no to him.
Jesus doesn't have an issue with gay people either but it doesn't stop fanatics from spouting it.
But he opposes the act of homosexuality. But I agree he loves the person.
Do you have a reference?
OK :)

Bare with me, this might be long, but hopefully you get the point.

First of all, you are right. Jesus doesn't have an issue with gay people. He doesn't have an issue with anyone (unless you were a Pharisee, he said some harsh words to them). That's because Jesus wants all to come to the Father, he wants all to live so none may die.

The bible reference I was thinking of is Mark 7 20-23:

20 And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man.” (NKJV)

The apostle Paul, in one of his letters to the Corinthians, wrote the verses most often quoted on this subject:

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (NIV, 1st Corinthians 6:9-11)

This verse has been translated in as many different ways as there are different versions of the Bible, so we have to look at the original Greek to see what Paul was really saying. The word translated here as "male prostitute" is the Greek word malakos which literally means "soft to the touch." However, it was used metaphorically to refer to a catamite (a boy kept for sexual relations with a man) or to a male prostitute in general. The word translated here as "homosexual offender" is the Greek word arsenokoites which means a sodomite, a person who engages in any kind of unnatural sex, but especially homosexual intercourse. Some believe this use of arsenokoites referred specifically to the men who kept catamites, but that is not certain.
As with many Bible topics, there are uncertainties and different opinions about how the Biblical evidence should be interpreted. The challenge of accurate interpretation is to determine what message was originally intended, how it was understood by people of that time, and how the lesson should be applied in our own time. That involves a lot of specialized knowledge of the original Biblical languages as well as the culture and issues of those times. The Bible often speaks of sexual matters in euphemistic and vague terms, and there is a lack of understanding of how Biblical-era people used and understood those terms.

Prejudices, fears and misconceptions about homosexuality are deeply rooted in our culture. The subject evokes strong emotions which may hinder understanding it from a Biblical perspective. Many common beliefs and attitudes about homosexuality actually have their origins in our cultural traditions rather than in the Bible. The Bible prohibits homosexual intercourse but does not treat it as one of the major sins. There are only 7 Bible passages on this topic, and it is not one of the major sins mentioned in the Ten Commandments or by Jesus. (In comparison, the sin of hatred is mentioned 21 times, lying and false testimony 30, greed, avarice and covetousness 40, theft 42, adultery 52, murder 57, self-righteousness 79, and idolatry 169 times.) When read in context, a majority of the Bible passages refer to specific homosexual practices which violate other important Bible prohibitions such as idolatry, rape, prostitution or pederasty.

So to me, it's clear God is saying "I don't like that act, but I love you anyway."
What's the difference between a homosexual and a homosexual offender? Also if you spend your Friday night with an iphone in one hand and a beer in the other are you an idolator and drunkard?
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by Manbush »

Green_Hammock wrote:To me the bible is the word of God and not just a book.
Yep understand but marriage was around before his word was told, so if he wanted Christians to have their own definition of "marriage" he should've created a new word for it rather than hijacking a word already in use. I understand and appreciate you following his definition but surely he had no right to steal the word and try and change it for people who don't follow him.
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by Green_Hammock »

Green eyed Mick wrote:
Green_Hammock wrote:To me the bible is the word of God and not just a book.
If the Bible is the word of God why do you ignore so much of it?
How can you possibly accuse me of that? You don't know how I live my life. You can't choose some verses to follow and others to not. The bible does say that homosexuals will not enter the kingdom of God.
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by gangrenous »

It's easy. If you lived by everything in the bible you'd be in jail.
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by Green eyed Mick »

Green_Hammock wrote:
Green eyed Mick wrote:
Green_Hammock wrote:To me the bible is the word of God and not just a book.
If the Bible is the word of God why do you ignore so much of it?
How can you possibly accuse me of that? You don't know how I live my life. You can't choose some verses to follow and others to not. The bible does say that homosexuals will not enter the kingdom of God.
I apologise. I assumed you were like most christians in that you only follow Gods laws that you agree with.

Just so we're clear though

You don't wear denim jeans with your raiders jersey do you? God strictly forbid wearing outfits of 2 different clothes.

You have probably abstained from bacon and cheeseburgers since you took up God

You have never spoken to a woman within a church before without delivering the necessary punishment if she had the audacity to reply

You have never worn a pair of womens panties or bra, even for **** and giggles

Given some of these are old testament laws I have also assumed that you adhere to Matthew 5:18 where Jesus made it pretty clear the old laws still applied. Jesus also never renounced his faith and perhaps most importantly never suggested his God was a different God to the Jewish God. The same Jewish God that handed down all those wacky laws modern Christians convince themselves no longer apply, except, of course the ones about gays, and 150 years ago the ones about slaves and further back the ones about women and further back the dietary and dress requirements, etc.


At the end of the day people can believe what ever they want but no religion or ideology should be forced onto others. Opposition to gay marriage goes beyond personal belief the minute you advocate for society to adhere to your ideology.
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by Green eyed Mick »

In other good news the Man who promotes and incites violence against women who seek abortions and the doctors who perform them has had his high court challenge dismissed.

The first decent thing Peter Dutton has done as immigration minister
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Re: One signal will put an end to all religions

Post by Notaroboticfish »

Green eyed Mick wrote:In other good news the Man who promotes and incites violence against women who seek abortions and the doctors who perform them has had his high court challenge dismissed.

The first decent thing Peter Dutton has done as immigration minister
And Miranda Devine says it's a disgrace.
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