PPL and child care

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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Manbush » December 9, 2014, 11:17 am

Shezza wrote:Ok, I get it.

The threshold is set where Manbush deems it to be.
:lol:

No but common sense should prevail, if you don need the money you shouldn't get it.

Hopefully this article helps put things in some perspective, in a time when so many are living under the poverty line why should we be paying welfare to those who don't actually NEED it to survive. If our economy was going through the roof then maybe it could be argued it's the right thing to do, but our economy isn't.

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-1 ... bs/5807624
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Shezza » December 9, 2014, 11:21 am

Green eyed Mick wrote:Explain to me why $35K (roughly half the median wage) over 6 months is not enough?
I think Lucy has also missed the point GeM, as have you. He is also viewing it as a handout.
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Manbush » December 9, 2014, 11:23 am

There has to be a means test for it, chick at work is currently on her 13month of maternity leave and doesn't look likely to be coming back for another couple of months, obviously she didn't need it but people appear to be happy to just give it to her regardless. (She was on about 80k husband around the 200k mark).
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by The Rickman » December 9, 2014, 11:24 am

Manbush wrote:
Shezza wrote:Ok, I get it.

The threshold is set where Manbush deems it to be.
:lol:

No but common sense should prevail, if you don need the money you shouldn't get it.

Hopefully this article helps put things in some perspective, in a time when so many are living under the poverty line why should we be paying welfare to those who don't actually NEED it to survive. If our economy was going through the roof then maybe it could be argued it's the right thing to do, but our economy isn't.

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-1 ... bs/5807624
Hahahahahahaha Hanbush has been Googling.

Love it.
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by T_R » December 9, 2014, 11:27 am

Green eyed Mick wrote:Explain to me why $35K (roughly half the median wage) over 6 months is not enough?
Explain to me why a single guy living in a one bedroom apartment feels that he's in any position to comment on the needs of working families?
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Professor » December 9, 2014, 11:27 am

Manbush wrote:There has to be a means test for it, chick at work is currently on her 13month of maternity leave and doesn't look likely to be coming back for another couple of months, obviously she didn't need it but people appear to be happy to just give it to her regardless. (She was on about 80k husband around the 200k mark).
Combined income of 280 large - yeah, I'd say they've been making their fair share of tax contributions.

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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Manchild » December 9, 2014, 11:29 am

The Nickman wrote:
Manchild wrote:I would have ended up homeless without PPL. We put ourselves in a position financially whilst both working to be paying off a mortgage. Factor in buying stuff to bring a child into the world and the extra expenses that go with it and then you take away an income.

I know that there are people in this country far worse off than me, but for you to be against me receiving assistance from the government after both my partner and I have worked since both leaving school to keep the life we built for ourselves in tact is ridiculous.

After we finished receiving our payments, my partner had to go back to work permanent part-time after 5 months. My mother looks after our young fella for those days as child care is far too much and frankly I would rather someone I know raising my son until he can at least do the basics.
So you receive it already?? I didn't realise the scheme was already in place!
No we had our kid when it was 16 weeks at minimum wage ($500 p/w).

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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Shezza » December 9, 2014, 11:30 am

Manbush wrote:There has to be a means test for it, chick at work is currently on her 13month of maternity leave and doesn't look likely to be coming back for another couple of months, obviously she didn't need it but people appear to be happy to just give it to her regardless. (She was on about 80k husband around the 200k mark).
Is this maternity leave being paid by her company or is it some govt scheme?
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Lucy » December 9, 2014, 11:31 am

Green eyed Mick wrote:Explain to me why $35K (roughly half the median wage) over 6 months is not enough?
Who the hell gets $35k for 6 months?
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by T_R » December 9, 2014, 11:32 am

Manbush wrote:There has to be a means test for it, chick at work is currently on her 13month of maternity leave and doesn't look likely to be coming back for another couple of months, obviously she didn't need it but people appear to be happy to just give it to her regardless. (She was on about 80k husband around the 200k mark).
Um...who's paying for her maternity leave then, Manbush?
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Manbush » December 9, 2014, 11:32 am

The Nickman wrote: Hahahahahahaha Hanbush has been Googling.

Love it.
Just have to figure a way to bring up drugs and sex now :lol:
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Lucy » December 9, 2014, 11:33 am

T_R wrote:
Green eyed Mick wrote:Explain to me why $35K (roughly half the median wage) over 6 months is not enough?
Explain to me why a single guy living in a one bedroom apartment feels that he's in any position to comment on the needs of working families?
My point exactly. GeM seems to think he knows about the real world without having actually lived in it.
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by T_R » December 9, 2014, 11:35 am

Manbush wrote:There has to be a means test for it, chick at work is currently on her 13month of maternity leave and doesn't look likely to be coming back for another couple of months, obviously she didn't need it but people appear to be happy to just give it to her regardless. (She was on about 80k husband around the 200k mark).

She's probably just using it to buy drugs.

Which is good!

For the health benefits!
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Lucy » December 9, 2014, 11:36 am

Manchild wrote:
The Nickman wrote:
Manchild wrote:I would have ended up homeless without PPL. We put ourselves in a position financially whilst both working to be paying off a mortgage. Factor in buying stuff to bring a child into the world and the extra expenses that go with it and then you take away an income.

I know that there are people in this country far worse off than me, but for you to be against me receiving assistance from the government after both my partner and I have worked since both leaving school to keep the life we built for ourselves in tact is ridiculous.

After we finished receiving our payments, my partner had to go back to work permanent part-time after 5 months. My mother looks after our young fella for those days as child care is far too much and frankly I would rather someone I know raising my son until he can at least do the basics.
So you receive it already?? I didn't realise the scheme was already in place!
No we had our kid when it was 16 weeks at minimum wage ($500 p/w).
Exactly. A massive $8k when Kel paid over $16K in tax just the year prior. It is not exactly "handout" proprtions. It isn't even enough to pay the mortgage for the period we were down to one income.

But please Gem, Tell us how the male single earners live. I am sure it is comparable.
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by gangrenous » December 9, 2014, 11:37 am

Lucy wrote:
Green eyed Mick wrote:Explain to me why $35K (roughly half the median wage) over 6 months is not enough?
Who the hell gets $35k for 6 months?
Try reading the thread. GeM is arguing for the PPL to be pushed out to 6 months, but capping the amount lower than the proposed scheme.

Another day on the greenhouse with personal attacks and straw men outweighing rational debate.

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Re: PPL and child care

Post by The Rickman » December 9, 2014, 11:37 am

So what's the current deal with maternity leave anyway?? One of my staff is pregnant and she's the major breadwinner in her marriage, but I'm pretty sure we're not just putting her out on her **** while she's off work.
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Manbush » December 9, 2014, 11:38 am

T_R wrote:
Manbush wrote:There has to be a means test for it, chick at work is currently on her 13month of maternity leave and doesn't look likely to be coming back for another couple of months, obviously she didn't need it but people appear to be happy to just give it to her regardless. (She was on about 80k husband around the 200k mark).
Um...who's paying for her maternity leave then, Manbush?
Her and her husband, optoms within our company are subcontractors but her and her family are very respected within the industry so the position is being kept open for her indefinitely.

They're very well off not only due to income but they've never been the frivolous type with money.
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Lucy » December 9, 2014, 11:38 am

The Nickman wrote:So what's the current deal with maternity leave anyway?? One of my staff is pregnant and she's the major breadwinner in her marriage, but I'm pretty sure we're not just putting her out on her **** while she's off work.
That pretty much sums it up.
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Shezza » December 9, 2014, 11:40 am

Manbush wrote:
T_R wrote:
Manbush wrote:There has to be a means test for it, chick at work is currently on her 13month of maternity leave and doesn't look likely to be coming back for another couple of months, obviously she didn't need it but people appear to be happy to just give it to her regardless. (She was on about 80k husband around the 200k mark).
Um...who's paying for her maternity leave then, Manbush?
Her and her husband, optoms within our company are subcontractors but her and her family are very respected within the industry so the position is being kept open for her indefinitely.

They're very well off not only due to income but they've never been the frivolous type with money.
I can't really be certain because that doesn't make a lot of sense. But it appears to me she is being paid by the company, or not at all now (and the job is simply being held for her).

So it's not a govt handout, its part of her work package, funded by the company.

Please describe how this is relevant?
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Manbush » December 9, 2014, 11:41 am

T_R wrote:
Manbush wrote:There has to be a means test for it, chick at work is currently on her 13month of maternity leave and doesn't look likely to be coming back for another couple of months, obviously she didn't need it but people appear to be happy to just give it to her regardless. (She was on about 80k husband around the 200k mark).

She's probably just using it to buy drugs.

Which is good!

For the health benefits!
:lol:
Nah we get on great considering how different we are, she's very anti drugs and very religious. Due to her the arch bishop of PNG loves me.
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by The Rickman » December 9, 2014, 11:45 am

Lucy wrote:
The Nickman wrote:So what's the current deal with maternity leave anyway?? One of my staff is pregnant and she's the major breadwinner in her marriage, but I'm pretty sure we're not just putting her out on her **** while she's off work.
That pretty much sums it up.
What?? Answer my question!

Does she get paid leave??
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Lucy » December 9, 2014, 11:45 am

gangrenous wrote:
Lucy wrote:
Green eyed Mick wrote:Explain to me why $35K (roughly half the median wage) over 6 months is not enough?
Who the hell gets $35k for 6 months?
Try reading the thread. GeM is arguing for the PPL to be pushed out to 6 months, but capping the amount lower than the proposed scheme.

Another day on the greenhouse with personal attacks and straw men outweighing rational debate.
I am arguing the fact he claims "26 weeks seems fair", this from a bloke who has absolutely no idea about the connection of mother and child and the personal turmoil involved in the requirement to return to work as opposed to staying off work for atleast a year during the integral part of the shilds development. 26 weeks is not fair, and if a woman has worked and paid her taxes her entire life, she should be eligible for a year to be at home with her child without losing the things she has earned over the time up to the point just because she wants to halt her career temporarily and have a child.

I was faceatious above about the money. But anyway.. Continue on your rant..
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Manbush » December 9, 2014, 11:46 am

Shezza wrote:
Manbush wrote:
T_R wrote:
Manbush wrote:There has to be a means test for it, chick at work is currently on her 13month of maternity leave and doesn't look likely to be coming back for another couple of months, obviously she didn't need it but people appear to be happy to just give it to her regardless. (She was on about 80k husband around the 200k mark).
Um...who's paying for her maternity leave then, Manbush?
Her and her husband, optoms within our company are subcontractors but her and her family are very respected within the industry so the position is being kept open for her indefinitely.

They're very well off not only due to income but they've never been the frivolous type with money.
I can't really be certain because that doesn't make a lot of sense. But it appears to me she is being paid by the company, or not at all now (and the job is simply being held for her).

So it's not a govt handout, its part of her work package, funded by the company.

Please describe how this is relevant?
As a subcontractor she doesn't even get holidays or sick pay, so work didn't pay a cent of it.

Relevance is means testing any PPL, she obviously didn't require it so why should the tax payer fork it out for her and others in her position.
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by gangrenous » December 9, 2014, 11:49 am

Straw man away Lucy. The main objection is the higher income earners receiving large sums for the same period.

If you want the discussion to be 6 months vs 1 year for all that's a separate issue.

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Re: PPL and child care

Post by The Rickman » December 9, 2014, 11:50 am

Hanbush is right (in a ****ing roundabout kind of way). This "chick" didn't get the pay out, certainly doesn't need it, but probably would've got it if it were in place.

I am strongly opposed to middle class welfare and the argument that "we pay enough tax, we should be entitled to it" just doesn't wash with me.
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by T_R » December 9, 2014, 11:51 am

Manbush wrote:
Relevance is means testing any PPL, she obviously didn't require it so why should the tax payer fork it out for her and others in her position.
Because this one person that I happen to know didn't need to be supported, no one does.

Actually, that's very reasonable. Sample sizes of '1' are almost always entirely representative of a population.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: PPL and child care

Post by T_R » December 9, 2014, 11:53 am

gangrenous wrote:Straw man away Lucy. The main objection is the higher income earners receiving large sums for the same period.

If you want the discussion to be 6 months vs 1 year for all that's a separate issue.
Aren't we lucky to have Gangrenous here to tell us what is an acceptable argument and what isn't.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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gangrenous
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by gangrenous » December 9, 2014, 11:54 am

Am I wrong T_R?

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Manbush
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Manbush » December 9, 2014, 11:56 am

T_R wrote:
Manbush wrote:
Relevance is means testing any PPL, she obviously didn't require it so why should the tax payer fork it out for her and others in her position.
Because this one person that I happen to know didn't need to be supported, no one does.

Actually, that's very reasonable. Sample sizes of '1' are almost always entirely representative of a population.
Your comprehension skills surely aren't that deplorable TR, no where have I said no one needs supporting, hence the "means testing" and "her position".
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Lucy » December 9, 2014, 11:56 am

gangrenous wrote:Straw man away Lucy. The main objection is the higher income earners receiving large sums for the same period.

If you want the discussion to be 6 months vs 1 year for all that's a separate issue.
And again I am in favour of it. I would happily take money from the goverment for my wife to still be at home with our son and not having had to return to her career after 6 months.

I am not sorry for thinking if you worked your **** off for years and paid taxes so the houso's could stay home with their kids and watch them grow to be **** ferals to only continue in the way of their parents. Well we deserve the same opportunity.

Difference is, we are only asking for a year. Not a lifetime.

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Re: PPL and child care

Post by T_R » December 9, 2014, 11:58 am

gangrenous wrote:Am I wrong T_R?
In my experience in this thread, almost entirely and almost always.
Image

Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: PPL and child care

Post by T_R » December 9, 2014, 11:59 am

Manbush wrote:[
Your comprehension skills surely aren't that deplorable TR,
Ha! Wrong again!
Image

Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Shadow Boxer » December 9, 2014, 12:00 pm

No you're not, from my understanding of the current scheme Miranda Kerr would be entitled to $75,000 worth of taxpayer money if she decided to have a baby with Kerry Packer.

That said I received some much appreciated assistance when my kids were little and have no problem subsidising others for the same as long as it is reasonable.

Middle class welfare has been pretty well bracket-creeped out of existence anyway.
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gangrenous
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by gangrenous » December 9, 2014, 12:02 pm

T_R wrote:
gangrenous wrote:Am I wrong T_R?
In my experience in this thread, almost entirely and almost always.
Of course T_R! Attack me again. Not what I say at all. You're awesome.

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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Manchild » December 9, 2014, 12:03 pm

The Nickman wrote:Hanbush is right (in a ****ing roundabout kind of way). This "chick" didn't get the pay out, certainly doesn't need it, but probably would've got it if it were in place.

I am strongly opposed to middle class welfare and the argument that "we pay enough tax, we should be entitled to it" just doesn't wash with me.
I consider myself middle-class I have never felt that I am ENTITLED to anything. If the PPL did not exist I would have thought seriously about whether we could afford to have a child. We had already put off having children for years because of this fact.

Getting the minimum wage during that period just eases the stress of finances when you should be enjoying this moment in your life. If you take away PPL I would say many people would seriously consider having children.

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