PPL and child care

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The Rickman
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by The Rickman » December 9, 2014, 12:04 pm

Lucy wrote:
The Nickman wrote:So what's the current deal with maternity leave anyway?? One of my staff is pregnant and she's the major breadwinner in her marriage, but I'm pretty sure we're not just putting her out on her **** while she's off work.
That pretty much sums it up.
Seriously Luce, what does your post here even mean??
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Manbush » December 9, 2014, 12:04 pm

T_R wrote:
Manbush wrote:[
Your comprehension skills surely aren't that deplorable TR,
Ha! Wrong again!
Never know when to take your posts seriously or when you're just taking the piss :lol:
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by T_R » December 9, 2014, 12:05 pm

gangrenous wrote:
T_R wrote:
gangrenous wrote:Am I wrong T_R?
In my experience in this thread, almost entirely and almost always.
Of course T_R! Attack me again. Not what I say at all. You're awesome.
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You asked the **** question. If you take yourself that seriously, this is probably not the place for you.

Any thread where Manbush's views are read and discussed simply cannot be a serious place.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: PPL and child care

Post by The Rickman » December 9, 2014, 12:05 pm

Manchild wrote:
The Nickman wrote:Hanbush is right (in a ****ing roundabout kind of way). This "chick" didn't get the pay out, certainly doesn't need it, but probably would've got it if it were in place.

I am strongly opposed to middle class welfare and the argument that "we pay enough tax, we should be entitled to it" just doesn't wash with me.
I consider myself middle-class I have never felt that I am ENTITLED to anything. If the PPL did not exist I would have thought seriously about whether we could afford to have a child. We had already put off having children for years because of this fact.

Getting the minimum wage during that period just eases the stress of finances when you should be enjoying this moment in your life. If you take away PPL I would say many people would seriously consider having children.
I honestly didn't even know PPL was already in place!!
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by T_R » December 9, 2014, 12:06 pm

The Nickman wrote:
Manchild wrote:
The Nickman wrote:Hanbush is right (in a ****ing roundabout kind of way). This "chick" didn't get the pay out, certainly doesn't need it, but probably would've got it if it were in place.

I am strongly opposed to middle class welfare and the argument that "we pay enough tax, we should be entitled to it" just doesn't wash with me.
I consider myself middle-class I have never felt that I am ENTITLED to anything. If the PPL did not exist I would have thought seriously about whether we could afford to have a child. We had already put off having children for years because of this fact.

Getting the minimum wage during that period just eases the stress of finances when you should be enjoying this moment in your life. If you take away PPL I would say many people would seriously consider having children.
I honestly didn't even know PPL was already in place!!
The only place it's currently up and running is Manbushland. Population: 1 Drug Policy: Loooooooose
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Manchild » December 9, 2014, 12:10 pm

The Nickman wrote:
Manchild wrote:
The Nickman wrote:Hanbush is right (in a ****ing roundabout kind of way). This "chick" didn't get the pay out, certainly doesn't need it, but probably would've got it if it were in place.

I am strongly opposed to middle class welfare and the argument that "we pay enough tax, we should be entitled to it" just doesn't wash with me.
I consider myself middle-class I have never felt that I am ENTITLED to anything. If the PPL did not exist I would have thought seriously about whether we could afford to have a child. We had already put off having children for years because of this fact.

Getting the minimum wage during that period just eases the stress of finances when you should be enjoying this moment in your life. If you take away PPL I would say many people would seriously consider having children.
I honestly didn't even know PPL was already in place!!
IT was introduced a couple of years ago I think. The government used to just give a $5k baby bonus to anyone who was having a kid. Imagine all the teens and houso's getting knocked up for their paycheck.

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Re: PPL and child care

Post by T_R » December 9, 2014, 12:12 pm

It was introduced in 2011 @ 18 weeks of the minimum wage. It has very little in common with Tony Abbott's little creation.

The eligibility test is basically 'Generational Labor Voter'
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: PPL and child care

Post by papabear » December 9, 2014, 12:30 pm

I am not sure about where I stand in terms of the specifics as to how much it should relate to the actual wage. Obviously it would assist me a **** more if it was related to the actual wage but imo the biggest immediate issue is peoples perception that nothing should be done and the current system is already perfect.

It is not perfect, carers are getting screwed and too many people are unnecessarily having to choose between careers (and paying ongoing taxes) and caring for kids full time(paying nothing to the govt).

I find it interesting that the same people who want everything means tested at the bottom end (i.e. progressive tax systems, free this and that for the less wealthy) and the same people who are against means testing on the basis of what you earn/give when it benefits the higher end more then the bottom.

I also find it odd that someone who has not raised children has so much to say on the trials of raising children.

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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Manbush » December 9, 2014, 1:08 pm

papabear wrote:
I also find it odd that someone who has not raised children has so much to say on the trials of raising children.
Surely that can be applied to any subject just as equally. We've all got friends, families, co-workers raising kids so we've seen the efforts and it is about tax money we all pay.
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Manchild » December 9, 2014, 1:21 pm

Manbush wrote:
papabear wrote:
I also find it odd that someone who has not raised children has so much to say on the trials of raising children.
Surely that can be applied to any subject just as equally. We've all got friends, families, co-workers raising kids so we've seen the efforts and it is about tax money we all pay.
You are so wrong. I thought I had an understanding of being a parent because my older brother and friends all had kids. Wrong, wrong, **** wrong. If you think you know about being a parent because a mate is one I can tell you for a fact that you don't have a clue.

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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Manbush » December 9, 2014, 1:32 pm

Once again let's apply that to all debates in the future shall we. Do I know exactly no you can't without being there 24/7 but I''ve got some idea dude, enough to know not everyone needs a handout to have kids. I know a few who are having no problems and others struggling under the pressure.
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by papabear » December 9, 2014, 1:44 pm

Manbush wrote:
papabear wrote:
I also find it odd that someone who has not raised children has so much to say on the trials of raising children.
Surely that can be applied to any subject just as equally. We've all got friends, families, co-workers raising kids so we've seen the efforts and it is about tax money we all pay.
Of course it can be applied to all subjects equally.

It is why you won't see me commenting on the menstruation cycles or the difficulties of living in an indian slum, because I have nothing of value to add as I have no experience in the area.

Thus with limited experience in the area, how do you expect your opinion to be considered?

Changing the subject quickly, if I started commenting heavily on the NDIS given I have no "real" experience in the area, I would expect my opinion to be taken with a grain of salt, especially if I was being critical of it. See what happened when I commented on visa education systems (I was trolling to be fair) but I assume you are not trolling in this thread but this your fair dinkum opinion that you think has merit.

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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Manbush » December 9, 2014, 1:48 pm

You seem to comment on a lot of things in the politics thread that doesn't directly involve you Papa
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Lucy » December 9, 2014, 1:54 pm

Manchild wrote:
Manbush wrote:
papabear wrote:
I also find it odd that someone who has not raised children has so much to say on the trials of raising children.
Surely that can be applied to any subject just as equally. We've all got friends, families, co-workers raising kids so we've seen the efforts and it is about tax money we all pay.
You are so wrong. I thought I had an understanding of being a parent because my older brother and friends all had kids. Wrong, wrong, **** wrong. If you think you know about being a parent because a mate is one I can tell you for a fact that you don't have a clue.
Bushy, just stop for the love of God.
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by papabear » December 9, 2014, 1:55 pm

Of course,everyone does but I also acknowledge, in my own mind at least when I'm just trolling or talking out of my **** for funsies

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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Manbush » December 9, 2014, 2:01 pm

If you wanted this thread to be just a group of parents sitting around the campfire singing "kumbaya, give me more money, kumbaya", should've stated so.

Can't find how my view that not everyone needs it is so offensive, I've never stated no one should get it.
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Lucy » December 9, 2014, 2:07 pm

Actually having lived in the situation actually holds more weight. Being a 40 year old bloke that blows his cash on rent, smokes, ho's and weed carries next to none when it comes to talking about the requirement to have money and survive when you or your partner takes time off work from a career to raise your child for a mere year. It is not that difficult to understand.
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Manbush » December 9, 2014, 2:13 pm

Love how attacking the man and not the issue Lucy, do you actually believe everyone needs and deserves it?

I don't know yours or Manchilds situation so I can't say whether you guys "need" it or it's an added bonus, I am simply stating not everyone does therefore there should be restrictions otherwise there's more waste from our already struggling economy.
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Botman » December 9, 2014, 2:42 pm

I dont disagree that restrictions need to be placed. But the problem is we have a heap of single men tell us what the level should be, people who have no **** concept of what a working families needs are and how much financial impact children have.
If you want it means tested to stop genuinely wealthy people claiming it, then fine. I dont actually have a problem with that. But can we set the level at one that is actually one of real wealth, rather than middle class?
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Manbush » December 9, 2014, 2:48 pm

I've never stated a set amount mate, too many variables and "middle class" is too open a category up for interpretation, there'd be some within that that have a need and others that don't.
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Lucy » December 9, 2014, 2:55 pm

Manbush wrote:Love how attacking the man and not the issue Lucy, do you actually believe everyone needs and deserves it?

I don't know yours or Manchilds situation so I can't say whether you guys "need" it or it's an added bonus, I am simply stating not everyone does therefore there should be restrictions otherwise there's more waste from our already struggling economy.
I wasn't actually attacking the man. I stating fact based on the man you have portrayed yourself to be. I was emphasising the things you spend money on which differ greatly to the things a family does. Thus proving the world of difference between what you know to be parenting, and what it actually is.
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Raider Bell » December 9, 2014, 2:59 pm

Democracy, ladies and gentleman. Don't like people having a different opinion to you?

Off you go to Soviet Russia where one will be promptly assigned to you.
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Manbush » December 9, 2014, 3:02 pm

But that assumption would be based around not having mates and family with kids so while not knowing exactly I do have more idea than you're willing to credit. I know I have different spending patterns, that's disposable income that I have due to not having children so even on a small wage I know how much I could afford to put into raising a kid.
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Professor » December 9, 2014, 3:08 pm

Raider Bell wrote:Democracy, ladies and gentleman. Don't like people having a different opinion to you?

Off you go to Soviet Russia where one will be promptly assigned to you.
:lol: :lol:

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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Botman » December 9, 2014, 3:19 pm

Manbush wrote:But that assumption would be based around not having mates and family with kids so while not knowing exactly I do have more idea than you're willing to credit.
Honestly, you don't. Ill put this into perspectives you might understand

It's like some virgin trying to tell you he knows what it feels like to have sex because he watches a **** of porn and wanks all the time, plus he has mates who pulls every time he goes out.

or something a little closer to your wheel house, it's like someone who has never smoked pot, telling you pot is a hideous horrendous drug with terrible side effects, and a drug that should be outlawed immediately, based on what he has seen from his a few pothead mates.

Honestly, you haven't got a clue. And neither did i until 13 months ago.
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Lucy » December 9, 2014, 3:49 pm

Pigman wrote:
Manbush wrote:But that assumption would be based around not having mates and family with kids so while not knowing exactly I do have more idea than you're willing to credit.
Honestly, you don't. Ill put this into perspectives you might understand

It's like some virgin trying to tell you he knows what it feels like to have sex because he watches a **** of porn and wanks all the time, plus he has mates who pulls every time he goes out.

or something a little closer to your wheel house, it's like someone who has never smoked pot, telling you pot is a hideous horrendous drug with terrible side effects, and a drug that should be outlawed immediately, based on what he has seen from his a few pothead mates.

Honestly, you haven't got a clue. And neither did i until 13 months ago.
Nothing can prepare you.
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Manbush » December 9, 2014, 4:00 pm

You do realise since we're discussing handouts that it's more the financial side of it I'm discussing
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Botman » December 9, 2014, 4:05 pm

Manbush wrote:You do realise since we're discussing handouts that it's more the financial side of it I'm discussing
And I'm telling you that you don't have the faintest of faint ideas on what the financial implications are of having children is.
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Manbush » December 9, 2014, 4:09 pm

Well Nick tell me then how much its costing you, there's enough reports on the price of raising kids in Australia, knowledge of mates situations and seeing poor families raising kids to have a "faintest idea", otherwise enlighten me.
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PPL and child care

Post by Botman » December 9, 2014, 4:31 pm

Manbush wrote:Well Nick tell me then how much its costing you, there's enough reports on the price of raising kids in Australia, knowledge of mates situations and seeing poor families raising kids to have a "faintest idea", otherwise enlighten me.
It cost $100 minimum a day in day care alone
That's $1k a fortnight if you have two working parents

It's added $70 a week to our grocery bill, around $300 a quarter to our utilities. We are forever buying clothes because he grows out of them or ruins them, and no not ruins as in stains, ruins as in holes and rips in the garments, he's ruined a number of our own clothes with vomit, **** and piss stains, you've got cots, prams, you need portable options to take when you have to go visit family, you've got to have spare everything just about, it's not enough to buy on set of sheets, one grow bag, one change table mat, you need 2-3 because if **** happens, literal **** in this case, you need back ups to get by whilst you wash others. He adds massive amounts to our healthcare premiums, We also put money aside to pay for his future education. Car child seats, we had to buy a car to replace my wife's car which was not big enough to fit a child seat, pram and accessories in, we had to buy a bigger house because the 2 bedroom shoe box apartment wasn't big enough for a child to grow up in.

I mean I could go on, and on and **** on.
Let alone if you add a 2nd child.

There is a whole gambit of hidden costs you simply can not even begin to know until you have kids and notice how much less money you have each week.

I'm not crying poor, I'm just telling you, on this matter, like many others. You don't know nearly as much as you seem to think you do by watching from afar with mates. PPL helps incentivised productive, capable women to have strong bond with their children without having to put financial strains on their relationship, and trust me, when dealing with a newborn, you have enough stress in your life already, you don't need to add financial stress to that equation
Last edited by Botman on December 9, 2014, 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;

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T_R
Don Furner
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by T_R » December 9, 2014, 4:34 pm

Pigman wrote:
Manbush wrote:Well Nick tell me then how much its costing you, there's enough reports on the price of raising kids in Australia, knowledge of mates situations and seeing poor families raising kids to have a "faintest idea", otherwise enlighten me.
It cost $100 minimum a day in day care alone
That's $1k a fortnight if you have two working parents

It's added $70 a week to our grocery bill, around $300 a quarter to our utilities. We are forever buying clothes because he grows out of them or ruins them, and no not ruins as in stains, ruins as in holes and rips in the garments, he's ruined a number of our own clothes with vomit, **** and piss stains, you've got cots, prams, you need portable options to take when you have to go visit family, you've got to have spare everything just about, it's not enough to buy on set of sheets, one grow bag, one change table mat, you need 2-3 because if **** happens, literal **** in this case, you need back ups to get by whilst you wash others. He adds massive amounts to our healthcare premiums, We also put money aside to pay for his future education. Car child seats, we had to buy a car to replace my wife's car which was not big enough to fit a child seat, pram and accessories in, we had to buy a bigger house because the 2 bedroom shoe box apartment wasn't big enough for a child to grow up in.

I mean I could go on, and on and **** on.
Let alone if you add a 2nd child.
If it's any consolation, it get much, much more expensive from here.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Manbush
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Manbush » December 9, 2014, 4:41 pm

Hate to tell you mate but doesn't surprise me pretty much what the research states and what mates say (minus that much childcare), some would spend a lot more and some a lot less.
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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Lucy
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Lucy » December 9, 2014, 4:42 pm

T_R wrote:
Pigman wrote:
Manbush wrote:Well Nick tell me then how much its costing you, there's enough reports on the price of raising kids in Australia, knowledge of mates situations and seeing poor families raising kids to have a "faintest idea", otherwise enlighten me.
It cost $100 minimum a day in day care alone
That's $1k a fortnight if you have two working parents

It's added $70 a week to our grocery bill, around $300 a quarter to our utilities. We are forever buying clothes because he grows out of them or ruins them, and no not ruins as in stains, ruins as in holes and rips in the garments, he's ruined a number of our own clothes with vomit, **** and piss stains, you've got cots, prams, you need portable options to take when you have to go visit family, you've got to have spare everything just about, it's not enough to buy on set of sheets, one grow bag, one change table mat, you need 2-3 because if **** happens, literal **** in this case, you need back ups to get by whilst you wash others. He adds massive amounts to our healthcare premiums, We also put money aside to pay for his future education. Car child seats, we had to buy a car to replace my wife's car which was not big enough to fit a child seat, pram and accessories in, we had to buy a bigger house because the 2 bedroom shoe box apartment wasn't big enough for a child to grow up in.

I mean I could go on, and on and **** on.
Let alone if you add a 2nd child.
If it's any consolation, it get much, much more expensive from here.
And from there it's all downhill.

I have 16 year old twins, a 13 year old and a 7 month old.
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Manchild » December 9, 2014, 4:44 pm

Lucy wrote:
T_R wrote:
Pigman wrote:
Manbush wrote:Well Nick tell me then how much its costing you, there's enough reports on the price of raising kids in Australia, knowledge of mates situations and seeing poor families raising kids to have a "faintest idea", otherwise enlighten me.
It cost $100 minimum a day in day care alone
That's $1k a fortnight if you have two working parents

It's added $70 a week to our grocery bill, around $300 a quarter to our utilities. We are forever buying clothes because he grows out of them or ruins them, and no not ruins as in stains, ruins as in holes and rips in the garments, he's ruined a number of our own clothes with vomit, **** and piss stains, you've got cots, prams, you need portable options to take when you have to go visit family, you've got to have spare everything just about, it's not enough to buy on set of sheets, one grow bag, one change table mat, you need 2-3 because if **** happens, literal **** in this case, you need back ups to get by whilst you wash others. He adds massive amounts to our healthcare premiums, We also put money aside to pay for his future education. Car child seats, we had to buy a car to replace my wife's car which was not big enough to fit a child seat, pram and accessories in, we had to buy a bigger house because the 2 bedroom shoe box apartment wasn't big enough for a child to grow up in.

I mean I could go on, and on and **** on.
Let alone if you add a 2nd child.
If it's any consolation, it get much, much more expensive from here.
And from there it's all downhill.

I have 16 year old twins, a 13 year old and a 7 month old.
FMLImage
Manbush wrote:Hate to tell you mate but doesn't surprise me pretty much what the research states and what mates say (minus that much childcare), some would spend a lot more and some a lot less.

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Manbush
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Re: PPL and child care

Post by Manbush » December 9, 2014, 4:44 pm

:lol:
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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