x2Manchild wrote:FMLLucy wrote:And from there it's all downhill.T_R wrote:If it's any consolation, it get much, much more expensive from here.Pigman wrote:It cost $100 minimum a day in day care aloneManbush wrote:Well Nick tell me then how much its costing you, there's enough reports on the price of raising kids in Australia, knowledge of mates situations and seeing poor families raising kids to have a "faintest idea", otherwise enlighten me.
That's $1k a fortnight if you have two working parents
It's added $70 a week to our grocery bill, around $300 a quarter to our utilities. We are forever buying clothes because he grows out of them or ruins them, and no not ruins as in stains, ruins as in holes and rips in the garments, he's ruined a number of our own clothes with vomit, **** and piss stains, you've got cots, prams, you need portable options to take when you have to go visit family, you've got to have spare everything just about, it's not enough to buy on set of sheets, one grow bag, one change table mat, you need 2-3 because if **** happens, literal **** in this case, you need back ups to get by whilst you wash others. He adds massive amounts to our healthcare premiums, We also put money aside to pay for his future education. Car child seats, we had to buy a car to replace my wife's car which was not big enough to fit a child seat, pram and accessories in, we had to buy a bigger house because the 2 bedroom shoe box apartment wasn't big enough for a child to grow up in.
I mean I could go on, and on and **** on.
Let alone if you add a 2nd child.
I have 16 year old twins, a 13 year old and a 7 month old.
PPL and child care
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Re: PPL and child care
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Re: PPL and child care
I have 4 as wellLucy wrote:And from there it's all downhill.T_R wrote:If it's any consolation, it get much, much more expensive from here.Pigman wrote:It cost $100 minimum a day in day care aloneManbush wrote:Well Nick tell me then how much its costing you, there's enough reports on the price of raising kids in Australia, knowledge of mates situations and seeing poor families raising kids to have a "faintest idea", otherwise enlighten me.
That's $1k a fortnight if you have two working parents
It's added $70 a week to our grocery bill, around $300 a quarter to our utilities. We are forever buying clothes because he grows out of them or ruins them, and no not ruins as in stains, ruins as in holes and rips in the garments, he's ruined a number of our own clothes with vomit, **** and piss stains, you've got cots, prams, you need portable options to take when you have to go visit family, you've got to have spare everything just about, it's not enough to buy on set of sheets, one grow bag, one change table mat, you need 2-3 because if **** happens, literal **** in this case, you need back ups to get by whilst you wash others. He adds massive amounts to our healthcare premiums, We also put money aside to pay for his future education. Car child seats, we had to buy a car to replace my wife's car which was not big enough to fit a child seat, pram and accessories in, we had to buy a bigger house because the 2 bedroom shoe box apartment wasn't big enough for a child to grow up in.
I mean I could go on, and on and **** on.
Let alone if you add a 2nd child.
I have 16 year old twins, a 13 year old and a 7 month old.
19,17, 8 and 5
On one income all the way through
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Re: PPL and child care
Sometimes I wonder why we do it to ourselves and then they make me laugh or smile or give me a hug and you realise no matter how much you spend and how much they waste you'd never change it for a second.
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Re: PPL and child care
No , not even having to drive to the valley at 2 in the morning to pick up your pissed son
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Re: PPL and child care
I'm not quite there yet. Well, that they admit to at least. I like to think I know better ha!
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Re: PPL and child care
Id rather he call me TBH
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Re: PPL and child care
Is that a bad thing?Manchild wrote:If you take away PPL I would say many people would seriously consider having children.
Gina Riley: Oh, come on, John. That’s a bit old hat, the corrupt IOC delegate.
John Clarke: Old hat? Gina, in the scientific world when they see that something is happening again and again and again, repeatedly, they don’t call it old hat. They call it a pattern.
John Clarke: Old hat? Gina, in the scientific world when they see that something is happening again and again and again, repeatedly, they don’t call it old hat. They call it a pattern.
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Re: PPL and child care
The mistake was indeed mine. Usually in my experience when people claim I'm wrong they justify themselves. I always fall in the trap of forgetting you don't roll like that.T_R wrote:gangrenous wrote:Of course T_R! Attack me again. Not what I say at all. You're awesome.T_R wrote:In my experience in this thread, almost entirely and almost always.gangrenous wrote:Am I wrong T_R?
You asked the **** question. If you take yourself that seriously, this is probably not the place for you.
Any thread where Manbush's views are read and discussed simply cannot be a serious place.
Re: PPL and child care
So you were wrong again? How depressinggangrenous wrote:The mistake was indeed mine. Usually in my experience when people claim I'm wrong they justify themselves. I always fall in the trap of forgetting you don't roll like that.T_R wrote:gangrenous wrote:Of course T_R! Attack me again. Not what I say at all. You're awesome.T_R wrote:In my experience in this thread, almost entirely and almost always.gangrenous wrote:Am I wrong T_R?
You asked the **** question. If you take yourself that seriously, this is probably not the place for you.
Any thread where Manbush's views are read and discussed simply cannot be a serious place.
Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
Re: PPL and child care
From a biological perspective, I thought the human race reproducing and raising their young in a manner to continue to reproduce and thrive on this planet and eventually the universe was the single most important thing we could do.
Thus, imo, government policy should be promoting and assisting with the above.
From an economic perspective (aside from the obvious benefits through extra taxes raised on double income families) in terms of a getting things done perspective.
Say you have two families with two kids each.
You could have 1 carer looking after four kids and three other people doing three other jobs to full capacity, lets say one person digging iron ore out of the ground, one person flogging the iron ore to the world and another person being a doctor, all four of those paying taxes on income earnt, the carer picking up the extra cash caring for the child of the family who has two outside childcare employment opportunities.
Or you could have 2 carers then obviously only 2 of 3 of the above jobs are being done.
It simply is a no brainer.
Then the "welfare" argument.
People who do not have children, one day are going to be on a pension or super, not working using the goods and services provided by other younger people all offspring that they have not raised or spent a cent on.
People who have had children, who have bought up the workforce that will support them in their aging years will get no benefit/financial recompense for the money they have invested in the future workforce. They will get the same benefit as those who have spent their money on whatever their own heart desires and have not raised children into productive adults.
Thus from the above perspective, if anybody is doing better out of the system or getting "welfare" from the system it certainly is not those who have chosen to raise children.
Thus, imo, government policy should be promoting and assisting with the above.
From an economic perspective (aside from the obvious benefits through extra taxes raised on double income families) in terms of a getting things done perspective.
Say you have two families with two kids each.
You could have 1 carer looking after four kids and three other people doing three other jobs to full capacity, lets say one person digging iron ore out of the ground, one person flogging the iron ore to the world and another person being a doctor, all four of those paying taxes on income earnt, the carer picking up the extra cash caring for the child of the family who has two outside childcare employment opportunities.
Or you could have 2 carers then obviously only 2 of 3 of the above jobs are being done.
It simply is a no brainer.
Then the "welfare" argument.
People who do not have children, one day are going to be on a pension or super, not working using the goods and services provided by other younger people all offspring that they have not raised or spent a cent on.
People who have had children, who have bought up the workforce that will support them in their aging years will get no benefit/financial recompense for the money they have invested in the future workforce. They will get the same benefit as those who have spent their money on whatever their own heart desires and have not raised children into productive adults.
Thus from the above perspective, if anybody is doing better out of the system or getting "welfare" from the system it certainly is not those who have chosen to raise children.
Re: PPL and child care
Environmentally it's bad though
Should there be a cap on how many children you can claim it for?
#Warning ridiculous extreme example#
I went to school with one of Andrew Gee's cousins, there were 18 kids in total in his family. Now obviously pumping all those out the mum had no time (or desire) to work anywhere other than their farm. What sort of benefits should they get being self employed pumping so many out? (No idea if they were getting any assistance except a good discount from the catholic school we went to).
Should there be a cap on how many children you can claim it for?
#Warning ridiculous extreme example#
I went to school with one of Andrew Gee's cousins, there were 18 kids in total in his family. Now obviously pumping all those out the mum had no time (or desire) to work anywhere other than their farm. What sort of benefits should they get being self employed pumping so many out? (No idea if they were getting any assistance except a good discount from the catholic school we went to).
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
Re: PPL and child care
Wow, this thread has drifted into some strange places
This is known as the 'Manbush Effect'.
This is known as the 'Manbush Effect'.
Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
Re: PPL and child care
Sort it out, Manbush. Sort it out.
Re: PPL and child care
At least I gave a bolded warning this time
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: PPL and child care
No, just the onceT_R wrote:So you were wrong again? How depressing
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Re: PPL and child care
Depending on the situation, you could surely argue that these people paid their taxes into the system to support others and are now having that reciprocated?papabear wrote: People who do not have children, one day are going to be on a pension or super, not working using the goods and services provided by other younger people all offspring that they have not raised or spent a cent on.
Re: PPL and child care
With the way the age of retirement is going I don't think my pension will be an issue
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
Re: PPL and child care
No, Australia does not carry a surplus. We consume immediately the tax we pay, and more.gangrenous wrote:Depending on the situation, you could surely argue that these people paid their taxes into the system to support others and are now having that reciprocated?papabear wrote: People who do not have children, one day are going to be on a pension or super, not working using the goods and services provided by other younger people all offspring that they have not raised or spent a cent on.
Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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PPL and child care
At present, we're talking over a lifetime. And that doesn't rule out individuals having net positive effect. Not to mention that in immediately using the tax we pay, you're paying the pensions of those currently contributing nothing. You don't need a surplus to earn your cover.T_R wrote: No, Australia does not carry a surplus. We consume immediately the tax we pay, and more.
If you do rule out individuals having a net positive effect, then having children and more net draws on the economy doesn't seem like the ideal solution there.
Re: PPL and child care
Yes an individual might have a net positive effect financially, but without another generation there would be no one for him to purchase whatever he needs in retirement from.
Added to that, there is TR's point that despite some individuals having a net positive effect, the tax savings doesn't just sit there to be used in ones retirement we need the next generation to keep paying taxes etc.
Added to that, there is TR's point that despite some individuals having a net positive effect, the tax savings doesn't just sit there to be used in ones retirement we need the next generation to keep paying taxes etc.
Re: PPL and child care
Also have to take into the equation that on average people with children live longer so they drain more in that regard.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
Re: PPL and child care
Oh, come onManbush wrote:Also have to take into the equation that on average people with children live longer so they drain more in that regard.
This is just getting dumb.
Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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- Mal Meninga
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Re: PPL and child care
You see?? This is why we can't have nice things around here.Manbush wrote:Environmentally it's bad though
Should there be a cap on how many children you can claim it for?
#Warning ridiculous extreme example#
I went to school with one of Andrew Gee's cousins, there were 18 kids in total in his family. Now obviously pumping all those out the mum had no time (or desire) to work anywhere other than their farm. What sort of benefits should they get being self employed pumping so many out? (No idea if they were getting any assistance except a good discount from the catholic school we went to).
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Re: PPL and child care
The Nickman wrote:You see?? This is why we can't have nice things around here.Manbush wrote:Environmentally it's bad though
Should there be a cap on how many children you can claim it for?
#Warning ridiculous extreme example#
I went to school with one of Andrew Gee's cousins, there were 18 kids in total in his family. Now obviously pumping all those out the mum had no time (or desire) to work anywhere other than their farm. What sort of benefits should they get being self employed pumping so many out? (No idea if they were getting any assistance except a good discount from the catholic school we went to).
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Re: PPL and child care
ahhh, now I understandLucy wrote:And from there it's all downhill.T_R wrote:If it's any consolation, it get much, much more expensive from here.Pigman wrote:It cost $100 minimum a day in day care aloneManbush wrote:Well Nick tell me then how much its costing you, there's enough reports on the price of raising kids in Australia, knowledge of mates situations and seeing poor families raising kids to have a "faintest idea", otherwise enlighten me.
That's $1k a fortnight if you have two working parents
It's added $70 a week to our grocery bill, around $300 a quarter to our utilities. We are forever buying clothes because he grows out of them or ruins them, and no not ruins as in stains, ruins as in holes and rips in the garments, he's ruined a number of our own clothes with vomit, **** and piss stains, you've got cots, prams, you need portable options to take when you have to go visit family, you've got to have spare everything just about, it's not enough to buy on set of sheets, one grow bag, one change table mat, you need 2-3 because if **** happens, literal **** in this case, you need back ups to get by whilst you wash others. He adds massive amounts to our healthcare premiums, We also put money aside to pay for his future education. Car child seats, we had to buy a car to replace my wife's car which was not big enough to fit a child seat, pram and accessories in, we had to buy a bigger house because the 2 bedroom shoe box apartment wasn't big enough for a child to grow up in.
I mean I could go on, and on and **** on.
Let alone if you add a 2nd child.
I have 16 year old twins, a 13 year old and a 7 month old.
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Re: PPL and child care
Yeah, it explains a lot.Shadow Boxer wrote:ahhh, now I understandLucy wrote:And from there it's all downhill.T_R wrote:If it's any consolation, it get much, much more expensive from here.Pigman wrote:
It cost $100 minimum a day in day care alone
That's $1k a fortnight if you have two working parents
It's added $70 a week to our grocery bill, around $300 a quarter to our utilities. We are forever buying clothes because he grows out of them or ruins them, and no not ruins as in stains, ruins as in holes and rips in the garments, he's ruined a number of our own clothes with vomit, **** and piss stains, you've got cots, prams, you need portable options to take when you have to go visit family, you've got to have spare everything just about, it's not enough to buy on set of sheets, one grow bag, one change table mat, you need 2-3 because if **** happens, literal **** in this case, you need back ups to get by whilst you wash others. He adds massive amounts to our healthcare premiums, We also put money aside to pay for his future education. Car child seats, we had to buy a car to replace my wife's car which was not big enough to fit a child seat, pram and accessories in, we had to buy a bigger house because the 2 bedroom shoe box apartment wasn't big enough for a child to grow up in.
I mean I could go on, and on and **** on.
Let alone if you add a 2nd child.
I have 16 year old twins, a 13 year old and a 7 month old.
Avatar Bet - bleedgreen99 - Raiders to make (BG99)/miss(Lucy) the 8. Avatar from last round of regular season 2015 until GF 2016.
Signature Bet - Raider85 - Raiders to get(Lucy)/miss(R85) the wooden spoon. Signature for entire offseason.
Bottle of something to the value of $70 - Matthew Borewood to not see (Lucy)/to see (Piggles) a first grade game in 2015 for the Warriors.
The Name Change Bet - Regarding the three bets above;
I win all three I keep my name.
I win one I become "the Punish"
I lose all I become "Chicken Little"
Signature Bet - Raider85 - Raiders to get(Lucy)/miss(R85) the wooden spoon. Signature for entire offseason.
Bottle of something to the value of $70 - Matthew Borewood to not see (Lucy)/to see (Piggles) a first grade game in 2015 for the Warriors.
The Name Change Bet - Regarding the three bets above;
I win all three I keep my name.
I win one I become "the Punish"
I lose all I become "Chicken Little"
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Re: PPL and child care
At least we can share that common bond and knowing look that only the parents of twins will ever understand
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- Mal Meninga
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Re: PPL and child care
Except your twins are old enough to be Lucy's twins grandparents, AMIRITE??Shadow Boxer wrote:At least we can share that common bond and knowing look that only the parents of twins will ever understand
Re: PPL and child care
SB's twins names are Mavis and Mildred
Lucy's twins names are Neveah and Laquisha
Lucy's twins names are Neveah and Laquisha
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- Mal Meninga
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Re: PPL and child care
Don't forget Moisha my 13 year old.
Avatar Bet - bleedgreen99 - Raiders to make (BG99)/miss(Lucy) the 8. Avatar from last round of regular season 2015 until GF 2016.
Signature Bet - Raider85 - Raiders to get(Lucy)/miss(R85) the wooden spoon. Signature for entire offseason.
Bottle of something to the value of $70 - Matthew Borewood to not see (Lucy)/to see (Piggles) a first grade game in 2015 for the Warriors.
The Name Change Bet - Regarding the three bets above;
I win all three I keep my name.
I win one I become "the Punish"
I lose all I become "Chicken Little"
Signature Bet - Raider85 - Raiders to get(Lucy)/miss(R85) the wooden spoon. Signature for entire offseason.
Bottle of something to the value of $70 - Matthew Borewood to not see (Lucy)/to see (Piggles) a first grade game in 2015 for the Warriors.
The Name Change Bet - Regarding the three bets above;
I win all three I keep my name.
I win one I become "the Punish"
I lose all I become "Chicken Little"
Re: PPL and child care
And you're new one, Treyden.
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- Ricky Stuart
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Re: PPL and child care
lol, My twins are 12, you middle aged white men will never understand the bond Lucy and I share.
I went to a year ten formal after party last night, if you want to feel old go to one of those for a while.
I went to a year ten formal after party last night, if you want to feel old go to one of those for a while.
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- Mal Meninga
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Re: PPL and child care
I was sure at least one of them was hyphenated, Luce.
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- Mal Meninga
- Posts: 51209
- Joined: June 25, 2012, 9:53 am
- Favourite Player: Hodgo
- Location: Rockhampton, Central Queensland
Re: PPL and child care
A year ten formal after party?? Who do you think you are, Manbush??Shadow Boxer wrote:lol, My twins are 12, you middle aged white men will never understand the bond Lucy and I share.
I went to a year ten formal after party last night, if you want to feel old go to one of those for a while.