Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

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Dr Zaius
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Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by Dr Zaius » March 23, 2014, 9:30 am

Queenslanders, you need to know what is happening to your health care system. There has been a bit of media about senior doctors contracts disputes. The Newman Government has tried to paint it as a pay dispute. It is not. The pay is the same, it is the conditions which will change. You need not feel sorry for doctors, but you should worry about the future of your healthcare system.

All specialists who work for Queensland Health are being forced to sign contracts with conditions that anyone would find unacceptable.

Would you sign a contract where your employer can move your place of work 2000km away with no means of appeal?

Would you sign a contract which can be terminated at a moments notice for any reason, and where all means of appeal have been outlawed?

Would you sign a contract where your income is determined by meeting KPIs not yet developed?

Would you sign a contract, the details of which can be changed by your employer after signing (number of hours worked, where worked, pay)?

People who have given twenty years looking after the health of your community have already resigned over this. Irreplaceable expertise is currently leaching from your health care system. A mass resignation is planned if Newman does not back down. There will be no experienced doctors left to look after you or your loved ones if you are sick. There will be no experienced doctors left to train junior doctors, your future specialists. This will cripple Queensland Health for a generation.

Last edited by Dr Zaius on March 23, 2014, 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Queensland Public Healthcare System to be Decimated

Post by Toviii » March 23, 2014, 9:38 am

These laws are extremely concerning. I think I've read that many doctors in Queensland are looking for work in other states because of them. As you said it affects health professionals at all levels, even the medical students and interns.
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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by Manbush » March 23, 2014, 10:50 am

Hadn't really heard anything about it except the removal of travel allowance on top of overtime which sounded ok, but if you're right mate this sounds seriously **** up.

People have complained for years about Qld public health system but I've never had issues and only positive experiences.

Past few years have been crap behind the scenes with the payroll system (which forced an intern I knew into prostitution as the only means of paying her bills) and now this, for the service to the community you guys don't deserve this **** and hopefully will get the same public support against Newman as the bikies did.
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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by T_R » March 23, 2014, 10:56 am

Yeah, I'd normally be lining up to bash Dr Zaius on this, but truth be told these look like pretty bad contracts and I wouldn't sign one, either.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by Dr Zaius » March 23, 2014, 11:05 am

I'd encourage all Queenslanders who care about the public healthcare system to complete this email form:
http://keepourdoctors.com.au/email-mp/
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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by Green eyed Mick » March 26, 2014, 6:58 am

I think Newman needs his own thread.

He was on triple J's hack on Monday. The guy is **** nuts.

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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by papabear » March 26, 2014, 12:14 pm

In answer to your question, it depends what they are paying me, my other options and the other conditions of the contract.

IMO this is a thread fail.

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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by T_R » March 26, 2014, 1:34 pm

Manbush wrote: Past few years have been crap behind the scenes with the payroll system (which forced an intern I knew into prostitution as the only means of paying her bills)
I can't list the number of times my salary has been two weeks late, and rather than ....you know, delay a rent payment or sell my car, I've immediately resorted to offering handjobs to strange men for money.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by The Rickman » March 26, 2014, 1:47 pm

T_R wrote:
Manbush wrote: Past few years have been crap behind the scenes with the payroll system (which forced an intern I knew into prostitution as the only means of paying her bills)
I can't list the number of times my salary has been two weeks late, and rather than ....you know, delay a rent payment or sell my car, I've immediately resorted to offering handjobs to strange men for money.
I do it even when my salary is on time, you know, to keep my hand in (so to speak).
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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by Manbush » March 26, 2014, 1:53 pm

T_R wrote:
Manbush wrote: Past few years have been crap behind the scenes with the payroll system (which forced an intern I knew into prostitution as the only means of paying her bills)
I can't list the number of times my salary has been two weeks late, and rather than ....you know, delay a rent payment or sell my car, I've immediately resorted to offering handjobs to strange men for money.
She was an intern in Rocky, straight outta uni, no savings and bad pay and hours for interns, couldn't get a casual job due to long shifts at the hospital. Two choices give up medicine or find another way to pay the bills till Qld health sorted their **** out. What they went through was a lot worse than two weeks late.
Last edited by Manbush on March 26, 2014, 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by The Rickman » March 26, 2014, 1:54 pm

Don't feel too bad for her TR, she doesn't actually exist.
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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by Manbush » March 26, 2014, 1:58 pm

The Nickman wrote:Don't feel too bad for her TR, she doesn't actually exist.
:lol:

Still got a photo of her if you visit the hospital you might see her. Met her years ago online when I was up there for work, after our two week fling before i headed home she told me I was her dummy run to see if she could sleep with strangers
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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by The Rickman » March 26, 2014, 2:11 pm

And nobody's stranger than you, Bushy.
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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by T_R » March 26, 2014, 2:17 pm

While I would be the last to question the veracity of Manbush's claims.....well, I question the veracity of Manbush's claims.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by The Rickman » March 26, 2014, 2:18 pm

I like the part where he suggested I rock up to the hospital to see her.
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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by Dr Zaius » March 26, 2014, 3:19 pm

papabear wrote:In answer to your question, it depends what they are paying me, my other options and the other conditions of the contract.

IMO this is a thread fail.
I imagine that you'd be in the 1% of the population that thinks forcing someone to sign a contract with those conditions is fair an equitable, but thanks for joining the conversation Mr Newman.
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Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by Raider Bell » March 26, 2014, 3:28 pm

Seeing as I try to be the perennial half glass full guy, if there are no medical experts in QLD, then Halo needs to receive care in Canberra..

Well played Doc Zaius, well played indeed.

Not to take away though from what is at least at face value a ridiculous direction for QLD health to head in.
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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by T_R » March 26, 2014, 3:58 pm

Dr Zaius wrote:
papabear wrote:In answer to your question, it depends what they are paying me, my other options and the other conditions of the contract.

IMO this is a thread fail.
I imagine that you'd be in the 1% of the population that thinks forcing someone to sign a contract with those conditions is fair an equitable, but thanks for joining the conversation Mr Newman.
Does this mean you have resorted to prostitution? I think we need to be clear on this.

If so, have you gone for a 'high class' end of the market or are you focused on volume at this point?
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by The Rickman » March 26, 2014, 4:03 pm

T_R wrote:
Dr Zaius wrote:
papabear wrote:In answer to your question, it depends what they are paying me, my other options and the other conditions of the contract.

IMO this is a thread fail.
I imagine that you'd be in the 1% of the population that thinks forcing someone to sign a contract with those conditions is fair an equitable, but thanks for joining the conversation Mr Newman.
Does this mean you have resorted to prostitution? I think we need to be clear on this.

If so, have you gone for a 'high class' end of the market or are you focused on volume at this point?
Whatever you do, don't choose Manbush as your first "practice run" Zaius.
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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by Manbush » March 26, 2014, 4:24 pm

True, you shouldn't start with the best otherwise that inevitably leads to future disappointment
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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by Botman » March 26, 2014, 4:35 pm

Also Dr, if you could include your "going" rates in the post, that'd be great.
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;

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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by Dr Zaius » March 26, 2014, 4:55 pm

I was thinking I'd go more Breaking Bad style. Campbell's bikie laws have them running scared, so I see an opportunity opening up in the methamphetamine trade. I do however have a firm yet sensual right hand grip so perhaps I should diversify.

In all reality though, I only work one day a week for Queensland Health so it doesn't have a big impact on me. I'm just a believer in a strong public health system and I see this destroying it. I'm also watching a lot of good people I know agonise over the decision whether to sign a contract with draconian conditions or abandon a service they have helped build up and believe in and place their families livelihoods at risk.
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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by Manbush » March 26, 2014, 5:13 pm

Need a strong public system mate, getting more and more patients coming in telling us they're dropping their private insurance due to price rises.

Surely if enough refuse Newman will have no choice to back down.
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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by Botman » March 26, 2014, 6:16 pm

FWIW - I ask my wife about this to hear her take, and i really regret having done that. It produced a 10 minute rant about what a disgrace it is, she didnt have a lot of good to say about this, reckons even before this QLD health was a total mess, dating back to when she was a medical student going through the training. Regarding these contracts, she said was adamant she would immediately seek employment interstate if she was asked to sign one of these things.

It was pretty damning to listen too, tbh.
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;

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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by Dr Zaius » March 26, 2014, 6:37 pm

Yep, its a farce
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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by Botman » March 26, 2014, 7:46 pm

It's interesting because she basically said she would never consider ever working in QLD Health and that was before these contracts were an issue... if that sentiment is held in the wider health community, they will find it very, very hard to recruit replacements for people rightly walking away.
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;

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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by T_R » March 26, 2014, 7:48 pm

In more positive news, the prostitution sector is booming.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by Dr Zaius » March 26, 2014, 7:50 pm

Well that is a positive.

They are no chance of replacing people from within Australia. This is all over social media and medicos throughout the country are outraged. It's likely that the only people that they will find willing to work for Queensland Health will come from third world countries. Patel anyone?
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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by papabear » March 27, 2014, 1:24 pm

Dr Zaius wrote:
papabear wrote:In answer to your question, it depends what they are paying me, my other options and the other conditions of the contract.

IMO this is a thread fail.
I imagine that you'd be in the 1% of the population that thinks forcing someone to sign a contract with those conditions is fair an equitable, but thanks for joining the conversation Mr Newman.
I tried to refrain but I couldn't resist.

I posted in the politics thread my support for workers maintaining shift rights etc in opposition to TR who wanted workers in the country to do it for less. I look at an issue, consider it (and the information available) and decide my position.

In this thread you have asked us what would we do with a contract and you have only pulled out the clauses that are in favour of the employer, not those in favour of the employee (like pay) without that and other background circumstances how is anyone meant to know.

You are trying to compel me to take the position that people are being ripped off without any attempt to tell even close to the whole story, that sort of bias I would expect for today tonite and honestly it makes me naturally side the other way. Because I certainly will not lend my opinion and internet credibility to someone who is not engaging an issue in an appropriate manner.

Hence why your thread fails.

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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by Manbush » March 27, 2014, 1:34 pm

Dr Zaius wrote: It's likely that the only people that they will find willing to work for Queensland Health will come from third world countries. Patel anyone?
Last doc I had from outside Australia was an idiot, went in with an infected sebaceous cyst which I'd had one previously and just asked for antibiotics to get rid of the infection and the idiot told me the antibiotics wouldn't be useful till the infection had gone, he wouldn't listen that antibiotics are to get rid of infections, I walked out refused to pay and demanded to see another doc within the practice. Couple weeks later when I went back not surprisingly that idiot doc was no longer there.
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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by Manbush » March 27, 2014, 1:35 pm

T_R wrote:In more positive news, the prostitution sector is booming.
Competition generally lowers prices :hmmm
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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by Dr Zaius » March 27, 2014, 9:31 pm

papabear wrote:
Dr Zaius wrote:
papabear wrote:In answer to your question, it depends what they are paying me, my other options and the other conditions of the contract.

IMO this is a thread fail.
I imagine that you'd be in the 1% of the population that thinks forcing someone to sign a contract with those conditions is fair an equitable, but thanks for joining the conversation Mr Newman.
I tried to refrain but I couldn't resist.

I posted in the politics thread my support for workers maintaining shift rights etc in opposition to TR who wanted workers in the country to do it for less. I look at an issue, consider it (and the information available) and decide my position.

In this thread you have asked us what would we do with a contract and you have only pulled out the clauses that are in favour of the employer, not those in favour of the employee (like pay) without that and other background circumstances how is anyone meant to know.

You are trying to compel me to take the position that people are being ripped off without any attempt to tell even close to the whole story, that sort of bias I would expect for today tonite and honestly it makes me naturally side the other way. Because I certainly will not lend my opinion and internet credibility to someone who is not engaging an issue in an appropriate manner.

Hence why your thread fails.
Well specifically for pay, it is unchanged. More or less it is the conditions that have changed. We actually stand to gain nothing. Not a thing. Essentially they want to "stream line" the health system. Their vision of doing that is that they should be able to tell their employees where they will work in the state, when they will work and how many hours they will work (with no additional pay). This may have you move from a 9 to 5 gig in Brisbane one week to a 72 hour shift over Christmas in Mt Isa the next with no additional pay. There is no longer provision for fatigue safeguards. If you refuse to do as instructed, you will be disciplined and sacked. If you feel that you have been unfairly sacked, too bad you no longer have the right to apply for unfair dismissal under the Industrial Relations Act as this has been outlawed, only for senior medical officers mind you. Of most concern is that we have lost our right to advocate for our patients. Bureaucrats constantly put in place policies that cripple clinicians and deliver poor outcomes in favor of saving the system money. We will no longer be able to advocate as we will be disciplined and dismissed with no course to appeal as it has been made illegal.

But I think you miss the point. As I said, it doesn't matter if you feel sorry for the doctors or not. Newman has essentially run a smear campaign throughout painting us as bunch of overpaid lazy bastards who spend most of our time on the golf course. Whatever. The reality is the overwhelming majority of specialists who work in the Queensland Health system plan to resign over this as they feel that the conditions are unworkable. This is not a decision people have made lightly for obvious reasons. So, back to the point of my thread, if you live in Queensland and care about your public health system, you need to take action.

I've submitted my letter of resignation effective from the 30th of April. Most of my colleagues on the Gold Coast have done the same. As far as I can tell there will be no public health care system here on the Gold Coast, at least no safe one.
RIP Greenbits: 2007-2014

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Manbush
Mal Meninga
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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by Manbush » March 27, 2014, 9:35 pm

And yet I heard tonight Newman is getting a 22% pay rise
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

Green eyed Mick
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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by Green eyed Mick » March 28, 2014, 7:12 am

Manbush wrote:And yet I heard tonight Newman is getting a 22% pay rise
Convincing people to support policies that are not in their interest is a skill worthy of reward.

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Ricky Stuart
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Re: Queensland public healthcare system to be decimated

Post by Shadow Boxer » March 28, 2014, 7:22 am

Come to Canberra GB, We are a welcoming bunch.

Best culture in Australia as well apparently

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014 ... ltural-fix
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