Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

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Shadow Boxer
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Shadow Boxer » January 10, 2014, 9:10 am

There's a whole debate about how speed limits are supposed to be set at the 85th percentile (i.e. the measured spped that 85% of people travel on a particular road) but are now set lower

This has led to a situation where 85% of people acknowledge regulalry speeding.

it wasnt really an issue until arbitrary speed cameras came along and started booking the 85% travelling 10-15 k's over the limit.

It gets a bit complicated though and generally gets derailed by people shouting don't speed and you won't get fined.
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Nick » January 10, 2014, 9:21 am

Shadow Boxer wrote: it wasnt really an issue until arbitrary speed cameras came along and started booking the 85% travelling 10-15 k's over the limit.

It gets a bit complicated though and generally gets derailed by people shouting don't speed and you won't get fined.
It's not complicated at all. The law says drive at ___ km/ph and if your doing above that, your breaking the law
you can try and make it more complicated than that, but it really is that simple.
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Shadow Boxer » January 10, 2014, 9:26 am

Well that was quick.
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Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Toviii » January 10, 2014, 9:44 am

I can see how speed cameras would be a contentious issue in Canberra where it is almost custom to go 10-15ks over the limit.
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by The Rickman » January 10, 2014, 10:03 am

Imagine being Manbush's mum and logging into the Internet for the first time in her life only to stumble across photos or some form of evidence of her son's behaviour.

Scarred!!
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Nick » January 10, 2014, 10:04 am

Shadow Boxer wrote:Well that was quick.
You can piss about as much as you like to make it some kind of complicated, complex process, but it's not. The law says do a certain limit, and if you're over that limit and you get caught, that's on you.

Sometimes it really is that easy, speeding and not being a member of an outlaw motorcycle gang are two such occasions. Dont speed and dont join a crime gang, and you're probably not going to worry about speed cameras and bikie laws
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Green eyed Mick » January 10, 2014, 10:22 am

If you speed you should suffer the consequences. If you don't speed you show be free to drive your car without being harassed by police just because of the make, model or colour of your car.

Similarly, If you break the law you should suffer the consequences. If you don't break the law you should be free to have a beer with whoever you want, wear whatever you want and ride whatever u want.

The bikie laws are the equivalent of the implementation of a law targeting V8's. A law which gave police the right to arbitrarily stop V8 drivers and impound their vehicles with the onus being on the driver to prove he had not broken any traffic laws. Rather than the onus being on the police to provide evidence of law breaking.


@ Nick these laws don't just target Bikies. They target their relatives and associates and they can be used against bikies who are no longer members.

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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Dr Zaius » January 10, 2014, 10:25 am

Green eyed Mick wrote:Similarly, If you break the law you should suffer the consequences. If you don't break the law you should be free to have a beer with whoever you want, wear whatever you want and ride whatever u want.
Excellent. I'm off to Target to get me a white sheet set to fashion me a KKK outfit. What, what? I do as I want!
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by The Rickman » January 10, 2014, 10:27 am

Nick wrote:
Shadow Boxer wrote:Well that was quick.
You can piss about as much as you like to make it some kind of complicated, complex process, but it's not. The law says do a certain limit, and if you're over that limit and you get caught, that's on you.

Sometimes it really is that easy, speeding and not being a member of an outlaw motorcycle gang are two such occasions. Dont speed and dont join a crime gang, and you're probably not going to worry about speed cameras and bikie laws
Bingo.
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by greeneyed » January 10, 2014, 10:31 am

You shouldn't speed and I always set my cruise control to try to make sure I don't, even around Canberra. But I don't think there's any doubt that speed limits are becoming unnecessarily low.
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by The Rickman » January 10, 2014, 10:34 am

Yeah, that's another thing entirely, GE. I think speed limits should be much higher.
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Green eyed Mick » January 10, 2014, 10:38 am

Dr Zaius wrote:
Green eyed Mick wrote:Similarly, If you break the law you should suffer the consequences. If you don't break the law you should be free to have a beer with whoever you want, wear whatever you want and ride whatever u want.
Excellent. I'm off to Target to get me a white sheet set to fashion me a KKK outfit. What, what? I do as I want!
You are welcome to it and I would fully support your right to be as racist as your heart desires. Up until such point as you break a law. It is not illegal to join the KKK or Australia First and nor should it be. Freedom of association should give you the freedom to join the Klan or any other hate group, join a union or join an organisation devoted to ignorance of science and the worship of magic.

In case you haven't noticed Australia is full of racists and xenophobes. It isn't a crime or people like Andrew Bolt would be in prison rather than pulling down 6 figures convincing retards that Asylum seekers and muslims are determined to enslave good hard working christian white folk.

That is why I am strongly opposed to these laws. I don't want to live in a country that can simply decide a group in society is no longer going to be afforded the same rights as everyone else. We don't live in Russia, where gays and lesbians are arbitrarily detained and denied their basic human rights. We don't live in China where political freedom is denied. We live in Australia. A country founded on strong principles like the separation of powers and an implied right to freedom of speech and freedom of association.

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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by The Rickman » January 10, 2014, 10:41 am

I might just place this here and back out of room before GeM's moral superiority valve explodes.

http://m.brisbanetimes.com.au/queenslan ... 30ko3.html
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Green eyed Mick » January 10, 2014, 10:53 am

The Nickman wrote:I might just place this here and back out of room before GeM's moral superiority valve explodes.

http://m.brisbanetimes.com.au/queenslan ... 30ko3.html
This is why the argument that bikies that want to keep their freedoms can just hand in their patch is flawed. These laws are a clear attack on freedom of association.

BTW this has nothing to do with moral superiority. This is an intellectual debate about the freedoms implied in our constitution and the preservation of judicial integrity.

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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Nick » January 10, 2014, 11:15 am

greeneyed wrote:You shouldn't speed and I always set my cruise control to try to make sure I don't, even around Canberra. But I don't think there's any doubt that speed limits are becoming unnecessarily low.
I agree, but that's an entirely different discussion
There is no way the spot i got done doing 93 in an 80 zone, should be an 80 zone, its practically a highway... 500 metres later it IS a highway where the limit is 110... but the speed limit is 80, and i was doing over that so it's hard to cry foul. I did the wrong thing and am now $300 lighter in the pocket and 6 demerit points lighter for that error
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by The Rickman » January 10, 2014, 11:17 am

Green eyed Mick wrote:This is an intellectual debate about the freedoms implied in our constitution and the preservation of judicial integrity.
I know, I know, you're much smarter than I am.
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad » January 10, 2014, 12:59 pm

greeneyed wrote:You shouldn't speed and I always set my cruise control to try to make sure I don't, even around Canberra. But I don't think there's any doubt that speed limits are becoming unnecessarily low.
Cruise Control? Is that what you're calling Eduardo these days?
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by dubby » January 10, 2014, 2:25 pm

The Nickman wrote:
Green eyed Mick wrote:This is an intellectual debate about the freedoms implied in our constitution and the preservation of judicial integrity.
I know, I know, you're much smarter than I am.
Nicko, you are more intelligent than most here
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by The Rickman » January 10, 2014, 2:47 pm

Most??
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by dubby » January 10, 2014, 3:23 pm

'except gem :P
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by The Rickman » January 10, 2014, 3:31 pm

Yeah, definitely.

That guy is a morally superior genius.
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Manbush » January 10, 2014, 3:49 pm

The Nickman wrote:Imagine being Manbush's mum and logging into the Internet for the first time in her life only to stumble across photos or some form of evidence of her son's behaviour.

Scarred!!
She actually knows about my behaviour, though the photos and videos out there might be a bit much :lol:
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by The Rickman » January 10, 2014, 3:55 pm

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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Nick » January 10, 2014, 4:30 pm

Suppose she knows about the 40th b'day present MB?
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^^^
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Manbush » January 10, 2014, 6:26 pm

Yep she does :lol:
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Nick » January 10, 2014, 6:30 pm

Christ almighty.
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greeneyed wrote:Sheens was brought in to build the Cowboys and Tigers. He did both, bringing one a premiership, despite the many injury ridden years of his key playmaker.
^^^
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Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Lucy » January 10, 2014, 9:02 pm

I have several good mates who rank from early days to quite high in the ranks of the Nomads Hunter Valley Chapter.

A few of them I played footy with for years and others I met around the traps. One of my closest mates is one of them. I've been to prawn and porn nights and all sorts of other occasions.. They are good blokes.. Anyway.. That's my input..

One other thing..

Bushy.. Your mum called.. She has your test results..
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Green eyed Mick » January 11, 2014, 6:51 am

Worm wrote:I have several good mates who rank from early days to quite high in the ranks of the Nomads Hunter Valley Chapter.

A few of them I played footy with for years and others I met around the traps. One of my closest mates is one of them. I've been to prawn and porn nights and all sorts of other occasions.. They are good blokes.. Anyway.. That's my input..

One other thing..

Bushy.. Your mum called.. She has your test results..
Sorry Worm. In case u haven't been paying attention. All bikies are sociopaths and all bikies are criminals.

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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Dr Zaius » January 11, 2014, 8:04 am

Green eyed Mick wrote:
Worm wrote:I have several good mates who rank from early days to quite high in the ranks of the Nomads Hunter Valley Chapter.

A few of them I played footy with for years and others I met around the traps. One of my closest mates is one of them. I've been to prawn and porn nights and all sorts of other occasions.. They are good blokes.. Anyway.. That's my input..

One other thing..

Bushy.. Your mum called.. She has your test results..
Sorry Worm. In case u haven't been paying attention. All bikies are sociopaths and all bikies are criminals.
So because Worm thinks that some of them are good blokes, they aren't criminals? He has said in previous posts that while he considers all od his mates good blokes, there are a lot of them that get up to bad things.

What motive do people have to join a motorcycle gang?
What percentage of people that join a motorcycle gang expect that the gang is not involved in criminal activity.

YOu're living in fantasy land GEM if you believe that these people are not up to no good.
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by dubby » January 11, 2014, 8:54 am

GEM, if you want to believe bikies are all good blokes, good for you.

while they are not all murderers, you must understand they do not subscribe to our laws or the moral standards you value.

while I cant speak for the nomads, I know particular gangs offer badges to their members for such acts as beastiality, rape of male, rape of female, rape of male cop, rape of female cop, killing a rival gang member.......should I go on? Your defence of these animals is puzzling
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Green eyed Mick » January 11, 2014, 8:59 am

Dr Zaius wrote:
Green eyed Mick wrote:
Worm wrote:I have several good mates who rank from early days to quite high in the ranks of the Nomads Hunter Valley Chapter.

A few of them I played footy with for years and others I met around the traps. One of my closest mates is one of them. I've been to prawn and porn nights and all sorts of other occasions.. They are good blokes.. Anyway.. That's my input..

One other thing..

Bushy.. Your mum called.. She has your test results..
Sorry Worm. In case u haven't been paying attention. All bikies are sociopaths and all bikies are criminals.
So because Worm thinks that some of them are good blokes, they aren't criminals? He has said in previous posts that while he considers all od his mates good blokes, there are a lot of them that get up to bad things.

What motive do people have to join a motorcycle gang?
What percentage of people that join a motorcycle gang expect that the gang is not involved in criminal activity.

YOu're living in fantasy land GEM if you believe that these people are not up to no good.
You're living in a fantasy land if you believe that every single person who is or who has ever been a member of a motorcycle club is currently involved in criminal activities.

Unless u honestly believe that 100% of people these laws will be used against will be guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of crimes these punishments are appropriate for than I just can't understand how an intelligent and rational person could support them.

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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by The Rickman » January 11, 2014, 9:01 am

Good grief, Manbush.
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by The Rickman » January 11, 2014, 9:04 am

Green eyed Mick wrote:
Dr Zaius wrote:
Green eyed Mick wrote:
Worm wrote:I have several good mates who rank from early days to quite high in the ranks of the Nomads Hunter Valley Chapter.

A few of them I played footy with for years and others I met around the traps. One of my closest mates is one of them. I've been to prawn and porn nights and all sorts of other occasions.. They are good blokes.. Anyway.. That's my input..

One other thing..

Bushy.. Your mum called.. She has your test results..
Sorry Worm. In case u haven't been paying attention. All bikies are sociopaths and all bikies are criminals.
So because Worm thinks that some of them are good blokes, they aren't criminals? He has said in previous posts that while he considers all od his mates good blokes, there are a lot of them that get up to bad things.

What motive do people have to join a motorcycle gang?
What percentage of people that join a motorcycle gang expect that the gang is not involved in criminal activity.

YOu're living in fantasy land GEM if you believe that these people are not up to no good.
You're living in a fantasy land if you believe that every single person who is or who has ever been a member of a motorcycle club is currently involved in criminal activities.

Unless u honestly believe that 100% of people these laws will be used against will be guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of crimes these punishments are appropriate for than I just can't understand how an intelligent and rational person could support them.
Well wouldn't the "innocent" people just leave the gangs in that case??
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Green eyed Mick » January 11, 2014, 9:09 am

dubby wrote:GEM, if you want to believe bikies are all good blokes, good for you.

while they are not all murderers, you must understand they do not subscribe to our laws or the moral standards you value.

while I cant speak for the nomads, I know particular gangs offer badges to their members for such acts as beastiality, rape of male, rape of female, rape of male cop, rape of female cop, killing a rival gang member.......should I go on? Your defence of these animals is puzzling
I don't believe for a minute all bikies are good blokes. I also don't accept the assertion that all bikies are bad guys.

I personally know a former rebel (these laws will target him) who works with children and is a lifeline counsellor. If he was denied his rights simply because of how he looks, what he rides and who he used to associate with it would be a travesty of the justice.

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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Manbush » January 11, 2014, 9:11 am

The Nickman wrote:Good grief, Manbush.
What mate? :lol:
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