Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

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Dr Zaius
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Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Dr Zaius » January 6, 2014, 1:04 pm

I'm involved in a Facebook discussion surrounding the below article. Just thought that I'd canvas people's opinion.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensl ... 30bvv.html
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Green eyed Mick » January 6, 2014, 1:21 pm

Dumb laws that won't work.

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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Dr Zaius » January 6, 2014, 1:31 pm

While I think that this particular proposal is too heavy handed, the finger printing for instance, I don't think that regulation of the tattoo industry is unreasonable. There is the potential to spread infectious disease and hence the government needs to be able to take some control. There is also the fact that they are often a front for criminal organisations. Finally, it's quite unbelievable that a young person can wonder into a tattoo parlour at 2am clearly inebriated and have a permanent procedure performed. Some thought should be given to opening hours and state of mind of the individual.

On targeted laws specifically. There's no doubt that bikie gangs are fronts for criminal activity. I mean, you don't join a bikie gang because you appreciate fine motorcycles. It's very difficult to get convictions against members of criminal organisations. They close rank, bribe and corrupt officials and intimidate potential witnesses. They eventually got Capone on tax evasion. Similarly, thinking outside of the box brings the best chance of bringing these scumbags down.
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by dubby » January 6, 2014, 2:28 pm

Green eyed Mick wrote:Dumb laws that won't work.
They are not dumb laws.
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Shadow Boxer » January 6, 2014, 2:34 pm

I have no issue with the tattoo laws. I do have an issue with sending people to jail for "association".

There are plenty of laws that can be used to apprehend people committing crime. We shouldn't be arresting people on suspicion, who they talk to or their past history.
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Nick » January 6, 2014, 2:41 pm

If they serve no other purpose than to annoy bikies, then im all for the laws
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Raidersrawesome » January 6, 2014, 3:28 pm

If they are committing crimes then they should face the law

If they are not then they don't need to worry about it
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by The Rickman » January 6, 2014, 3:31 pm

That's what I've always said, Rra. I really can't understand why so many people are up in arms about this whole thing.
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Shadow Boxer » January 6, 2014, 3:44 pm

Raidersrawesome wrote:If they are committing crimes then they should face the law

If they are not then they don't need to worry about it
I believe that is the issue, you can now be arrested for talking to people deemed undesirable.

here's a nice little piece of the new laws

Existing powers to require name and address and to search without warrant will be extended where the person concerned is known or suspected to be a member of a criminal gang.
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Raidersrawesome » January 6, 2014, 3:47 pm

They must have a good reason to be suspect of someone
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Dr Zaius » January 6, 2014, 3:53 pm

I think that the new law is that they can be arrested if three or more are associating in public in club colours. Given that the club colours indicate that they are part of a criminal organisation and are generally worn in public to intimidate I think that it is fair enough. The solution is simple for them, they can either not wear club colours or better yet, renounce their involvement in the criminal organisation all together.
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Nick » January 6, 2014, 3:57 pm

Greenbits wrote:The solution is simple for them, they can either not wear club colours or better yet, renounce their involvement in the criminal organisation all together.
Look at that, problem solved. :thumbsup
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Green eyed Mick » January 6, 2014, 3:58 pm

Raidersrawesome wrote:If they are committing crimes then they should face the law

If they are not then they don't need to worry about it
The Tattoo law prevents you from working in an industry if you are or ever were a member or associate of a bikie gang, regardless of whether you have committed an offence before.

A former bikie can go to medical school and treat you in an ER but under these laws he can't own a tattoo shop. How the **** does that make sense. It is akin to tackling the cannabis industry by banning Italians from owning fruit shops or tomato farms (1980's Griffith reference)

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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by The Rickman » January 6, 2014, 4:18 pm

Ah GeM, if you're not completely outraged about something, you're just not happy, are you??
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by dubby » January 6, 2014, 4:36 pm

Shadow Boxer wrote:
Raidersrawesome wrote:If they are committing crimes then they should face the law

If they are not then they don't need to worry about it
I believe that is the issue, you can now be arrested for talking to people deemed undesirable.

here's a nice little piece of the new laws

Existing powers to require name and address and to search without warrant will be extended where the person concerned is known or suspected to be a member of a criminal gang.
Mate, the PPRA give cops power to acquire a lot of stuff.
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by craigo » January 6, 2014, 4:36 pm

Sounds like a cash grab and a pr campaign . As someone already said its a stupid law won't achieve a thing except price increases and and annoying the owners.

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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Green eyed Mick » January 6, 2014, 4:37 pm

The Nickman wrote:Ah GeM, if you're not completely outraged about something, you're just not happy, are you??
Why do you assume I am outraged every time I don't happen to agree with your backwards, ill-conceived, anti-intellectual, anti-science view of the world?

You might want to read this piece on the bikie laws. Tony Fitzgerald knows a thing or 2 about law and order.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opin ... 6747871408

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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Dr Zaius » January 6, 2014, 4:45 pm

Is he specifically talking about the proposal discussed previously for the state to be able to over rule the court in regards to sentencing? If so, I agree, such a proposal is abhorrent.
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Green eyed Mick » January 6, 2014, 4:54 pm

Greenbits wrote:Is he specifically talking about the proposal discussed previously for the state to be able to over rule the court in regards to sentencing? If so, I agree, such a proposal is abhorrent.
I think he is talking about lots of things. Things like the independence of the judiciary and freedom of association (which all bikie laws erode). Making laws to appeal to voter prejudices rather than making laws based on evidence.

This quote sums up my opinions on all the bikie laws.

Although Parliament has power to enact almost any law which it chooses, parliamentarians who are elected to do what's best for the community don't have a "mandate" to give effect to prejudices and ill-informed opinions, ignore ethics and conventions or attack fundamental values such as personal freedom or essential institutions such as the judiciary.

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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Dr Zaius » January 6, 2014, 5:01 pm

I have no problem with the anti-association laws. Motorcycle gangs are known criminal organisations. People wearing club patches are declaring that they are members of those criminal organisations. We don't let people get around in KKK outfits.
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Shadow Boxer » January 6, 2014, 6:11 pm

The ones arrested in surfers were not wearing or in possession of any gang colours or emblems. They were walking down the promenade looking at the markets. Tthese new laws also take away the right to silence.
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Dr Zaius » January 6, 2014, 6:18 pm

Actually, they were at Versace and suprise, suprise, one had in his possession drugs and tainted goods. No mention of whether or not they were wearing patches, but to be honest, these guys are scum and I'm happy within reason with any law that makes life difficult for them.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensl ... 2xhvq.html
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Manbush » January 6, 2014, 6:24 pm

Greenbits wrote:I'm involved in a Facebook discussion surrounding the below article. Just thought that I'd canvas people's opinion.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensl ... 30bvv.html
There's another one on facebook about one of the bikie gangs challenging the new laws, all these people posting that most members aren't criminals just bike lovers and all the charity work they do, while they might not all be "criminals" they knew exactly the gangs reputations when they joined.

I think some of the new laws go too far but I'm all for tryin to shut down the gangs.
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Nick » January 6, 2014, 6:26 pm

Greenbits wrote:Actually, they were at Versace and suprise, suprise, one had in his possession drugs and tainted goods. No mention of whether or not they were wearing patches, but to be honest, these guys are scum and I'm happy within reason with any law that makes life difficult for them.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensl ... 2xhvq.html
:lol:
Imagine my surprise
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Shadow Boxer » January 6, 2014, 6:27 pm

the versace was raided later. they were arrested at the markets. presumably they are now in the new prison with mandatory 23 hour a day solitary confinement as the new laws have an assumption of no bail.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensl ... 30cna.html
Last edited by Shadow Boxer on January 6, 2014, 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Dr Zaius » January 6, 2014, 6:30 pm

Manbush wrote:
Greenbits wrote:I'm involved in a Facebook discussion surrounding the below article. Just thought that I'd canvas people's opinion.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensl ... 30bvv.html
There's another one on facebook about one of the bikie gangs challenging the new laws, all these people posting that most members aren't criminals just bike lovers and all the charity work they do, while they might not all be "criminals" they knew exactly the gangs reputations when they joined.

I think some of the new laws go too far but I'm all for tryin to shut down the gangs.
Motorcycle enthusiasts my ****. There are other clubs for that. As for charity work, they possibly do. At one of the the Kids hospitals I worked at, these guys used to take the kids on a ride around the grounds on a weekly basis. People would fawn over them like they were saints. They usually got the drift what I reminded them that the same same people would probably be pushing ice on the same kids in a few years.
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Shadow Boxer » January 6, 2014, 6:35 pm

thats fine gb I agree but minimum 6 months in jail with 23 hours solitary confinement simply because of who someone is not what they have done is outrageous, egregious even.
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Dr Zaius » January 6, 2014, 7:05 pm

Agreed
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Nick » January 6, 2014, 7:10 pm

Shadow Boxer wrote:thats fine gb I agree but minimum 6 months in jail with 23 hours solitary confinement simply because of who someone is not what they have done is outrageous, egregious even.
so how often has this happened?
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by dubby » January 6, 2014, 9:53 pm

Boxer, I'm confused. Are you defending omcg or old farts on bikes?
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Dr Zaius » January 7, 2014, 7:22 am

Old mate bikie was on ABC Radio here on the GC today complaining that he will lose his livelihood of 30 years because in his words he is a "member of a criminal motorcycle club". Does he think that he will garner public support with his sob story. I'd have thought the solution was obvious.
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by dubby » January 7, 2014, 8:01 am

Thats like pleading for sympathy if you belong to the mafia
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by VictorTheViking » January 7, 2014, 8:02 am

If they arent committing crime whats the problem??

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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Dr Zaius » January 7, 2014, 8:04 am

dubby wrote:Thats like pleading for sympathy if you belong to the mafia
Exactly Dubs
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Re: Targeted measures against motorcycle gangs

Post by Green eyed Mick » January 7, 2014, 8:05 am

Dr Zaius wrote:Old mate bikie was on ABC Radio here on the GC today complaining that he will lose his livelihood of 30 years because in his words he is a "member of a criminal motorcycle club". Does he think that he will garner public support with his sob story. I'd have thought the solution was obvious.
My understanding is it wouldn't matter if he left the motorcycle club tomorrow. He would still be subject to these laws because they apply to associates and former associates of motorcycle clubs NOT just current members.

This is my biggest issue with the laws. It is perhaps reasonable to ban motorcycle clubs and their members from owning or working in the tattoo industry. It is completely unreasonable IMO to deny someone the right to own or work in the tattoo industry because they were once a member of a motorcycle club or have friends or family who are members of a motorcycle club.

We don't persecute the brothers or mates of other criminals so why is it appropriate to persecute associates of bikies?

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