King hits

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Jake
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Re: King hits

Post by Jake » January 17, 2014, 12:39 pm

Gerg wrote:Interested in your thoughts on the matter. I know you train BJJ and maybe a little MMA, do you see these sorts of guys at your gym and think to yourself 'this guy has gotta be a bit lose on the turps'?

Sorry if you've already covered this.
Our gym is a completely ego free environment. We've had guys turn up who are too big for their boots and they get their marching orders pretty quickly, but there's always another gym that will take them. I have seen it in the local MMA world a lot and personally know some guys who do it purely to inflate their ego and want to use their skills on the street. It's really unfortunate and taints the rest of us as well.

There's always a 10% of any group who ruin it for the rest, and the scary thing is, these skills can kill - quicky and easily.

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Please
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Re: King hits

Post by Please » January 17, 2014, 1:09 pm

Nicko - I'm in the same boat and that's why I have concerns. My cousin who is only 18 is addicted to weed, and is already suffering the onsets of multiple mental issues, including psychosis and schizophrenia.

Personally, I don't care if people are doing the stuff socially. It's just that by legalising it and making it easier to access could cause more problems then it solves.

GEM - I'm well aware that addiction is often caused by mental issues rather then the actual product itself. That however is not the case in all instances. Personally, I had a huge problem with gambling a couple of years ago, and I would like to believe there is no overlying mental issue which help caused that.

I do understand where you are coming from regarding initial diagnosis of addiction however.
Well, at least Jack got paid.

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Manbush
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Re: King hits

Post by Manbush » January 17, 2014, 1:25 pm

Luffty wrote:Genuine question and I'm not trying to get in an argument, just curious: say theoretically this was to happen. Part time users who are currently concerned on legal repercussion might start using more as it is all of a sudden legal.

This could potentially lead to addiction, and also lead to health problems down the track. How will the government fund more rehab clinics. In my opinion, there is a guarantee there would be an increase in the consumption of drugs if made legal - not necessarily the amount of people using it, but the actual amount being used by an individual.

.
Hasn't proven to be the case in other countries so don't see it being the case here either, fact is its easy enough to get now so legalising/decriminalising won't make it much easier to get. There are a couple of places that have set limits on how much a person can purchase over a set time, people are registered to ensure it so if follow that path current users might actually decrease how much they consume.

Our health system could reap huge rewards from taxes on it, more than off setting any increases in problems (which haven't actually occurred elsewhere but rather decreased. )
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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Manbush
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Re: King hits

Post by Manbush » January 17, 2014, 1:30 pm

T_R wrote:
Manbush wrote: Or a summation from facts, drug use increasing as is western influence,
I don't believe Western influence is increasing. I believe the opposite to be the case.
I've never been so I'll have to take your word on it, all reports online though lead me to believe an increase was occurring.
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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Re: King hits

Post by Shadow Boxer » January 17, 2014, 1:59 pm

There was a good doco on the Colorado experiment last night.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x143tq ... d-kids_fun
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dubby
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Re: King hits

Post by dubby » January 17, 2014, 2:05 pm

Michael wrote:
dubby wrote:
Seiffert82 wrote:Legalising drugs to reduce crime (thus making the drugs less expensive and more available to children), is right up there with the right to bear arms in the "seemed like a good idea at the time" department.
I agree. It's only the stoners who try and justify it
You should be banned from grown-up discussions until you can finish two cans of Beam and Coke without chundering everywhere.
Hey! That was beer!!
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Re: King hits

Post by T_R » January 17, 2014, 2:35 pm

Green eyed Mick wrote: I agree. Cross-Asian influence in the region is increasing and western influence is declining quite rapidly. At least that is what I see (Currently writing from my hotel room in Taipei)
Yeah, that's what I was saying. Walk out of your hotel room (unless you're shacked up around Chung Xiao E Rd or somewhere like that) and you'll definitely hit a Mos Burger before a McDonalds, and any number of pseudo Japanese Shabu Shabu places before a Pizza Hut.
Green eyed Mick wrote: On Portugal. I would wager massive youth unemployment and general social breakdown as a result of massive economic problems is a far bigger contributor than drug liberalisation. Across southern and eastern Europe you are seeing increases in drug and alcohol abuse. Born largely out of ongoing economic problems that are hitting the young and the poor the worst.
Yes, but it's not Barcelona or Madrid that are turning into no-go zones. While I'm no expert, the locals in Lisbon would like drug policy substantially tightened - Lisbon has attracted every dropout in Europe, and it shows. Of course, if drug laws were relaxed across the whole EU I am sure these people would disperse further, but for what it's worth I think you'll struggle to find just about anyone (beyond the potheads) in Lisbon that are happy with the current situation. It's also the only place I've ever been in Europe that they have a guy at the door of the hotel giving a security briefing before you go out for the night, too!
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: King hits

Post by Begbie » January 17, 2014, 2:40 pm

But what do you have to say about the Japs and Koreans flying out to somewhere and getting completely blotto for a week TR?

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Re: King hits

Post by Manbush » January 17, 2014, 3:19 pm

T_R wrote: I think you'll struggle to find just about anyone (beyond the potheads) in Lisbon that are happy with the current situation.
Can't find any reports based on Lisbon so hard to comment but its been considered successful overall, considering Lisbons the capital though it'd be surprising if it didn't play a major part in their findings.

You're breaking the golden GH rule of goin by personal experience :P
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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T_R
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Re: King hits

Post by T_R » January 17, 2014, 3:35 pm

Manbush wrote:
T_R wrote: I think you'll struggle to find just about anyone (beyond the potheads) in Lisbon that are happy with the current situation.
Can't find any reports based on Lisbon so hard to comment but its been considered successful overall, considering Lisbons the capital though it'd be surprising if it didn't play a major part in their findings.

You're breaking the golden GH rule of goin by personal experience :P
Well, I guess that's what you get for selective reading. The local press has been full of negative stories for ages.

I don't have a dog in this fight, I really don't - I don't use drugs and never have, and they don't impact my life one way or another....I just don't care either way. But if you are looking for an argument FOR liberalisation of drug laws, I'd stay the hell away from Portugal.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: King hits

Post by T_R » January 17, 2014, 3:36 pm

Begbie wrote:But what do you have to say about the Japs and Koreans flying out to somewhere and getting completely blotto for a week TR?
I'd say it completely breaks down any suggestion of substantial cultural factors at play in drug enforcement in Japan, and suggests instead that it's harsh penalties, faithfully applied, that work.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: King hits

Post by Manbush » January 17, 2014, 4:26 pm

T_R wrote:
Begbie wrote:But what do you have to say about the Japs and Koreans flying out to somewhere and getting completely blotto for a week TR?
I'd say it completely breaks down any suggestion of substantial cultural factors at play in drug enforcement in Japan, and suggests instead that it's harsh penalties, faithfully applied, that work.
Harsh penalties hardly does justice to Japan's judicial system from what I've been reading, 99% convictions, forced confessions. You don't think Portugal should be held as an example but should japan be either with their court system?
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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Re: King hits

Post by T_R » January 17, 2014, 6:22 pm

Manbush wrote:
T_R wrote:
Begbie wrote:But what do you have to say about the Japs and Koreans flying out to somewhere and getting completely blotto for a week TR?
I'd say it completely breaks down any suggestion of substantial cultural factors at play in drug enforcement in Japan, and suggests instead that it's harsh penalties, faithfully applied, that work.
Harsh penalties hardly does justice to Japan's judicial system from what I've been reading, 99% convictions, forced confessions. You don't think Portugal should be held as an example but should japan be either with their court system?
That's just lame. I never even mentioned judicial processes, just penalties.

Also, that reading on the judicial system was the most shallow imaginable. I think you'll find there's a bit more to it than that.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

Nick
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Re: King hits

Post by Nick » January 17, 2014, 6:26 pm

Manbush is the best :lol:
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^^^
:lol: !

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Re: King hits

Post by Manbush » January 17, 2014, 6:38 pm

T_R wrote:
Manbush wrote:
T_R wrote:
Begbie wrote:But what do you have to say about the Japs and Koreans flying out to somewhere and getting completely blotto for a week TR?
I'd say it completely breaks down any suggestion of substantial cultural factors at play in drug enforcement in Japan, and suggests instead that it's harsh penalties, faithfully applied, that work.
Harsh penalties hardly does justice to Japan's judicial system from what I've been reading, 99% convictions, forced confessions. You don't think Portugal should be held as an example but should japan be either with their court system?
That's just lame. I never even mentioned judicial processes, just penalties.

Also, that reading on the judicial system was the most shallow imaginable. I think you'll find there's a bit more to it than that.
The penalties in Japan are just as bad as the judicial system and hey on Portugal you changed from drug use decreasing so I thought expanding was ok. If you're going to have ridiculously harsh penalties you need the judicial system to be fair and honest.
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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Re: King hits

Post by Manbush » January 17, 2014, 6:44 pm

Nick wrote:Manbush is the best :lol:
Go have a drink mate, you know one of the worst drugs known to man :P
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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Re: King hits

Post by Nick » January 17, 2014, 6:59 pm

No can do tonight, unlike your good self i was able to rise to challenge of siring a child :P
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greeneyed wrote:Sheens was brought in to build the Cowboys and Tigers. He did both, bringing one a premiership, despite the many injury ridden years of his key playmaker.
^^^
:lol: !

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Re: King hits

Post by Manbush » January 17, 2014, 7:06 pm

Nick wrote:No can do tonight, unlike your good self i was able to rise to challenge of siring a child :P
I'll pay that :lol:

Should've seen "The Moaning of life" last night with Carl Pilkington, 3 times average fertility but even the doctor commented they were bizarre, swimming everywhere like a drunk instead of going straight :lol:
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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Re: King hits

Post by T_R » January 17, 2014, 9:48 pm

Manbush wrote:
The penalties in Japan are just as bad as the judicial system and hey on Portugal you changed from drug use decreasing so I thought expanding was ok. If you're going to have ridiculously harsh penalties you need the judicial system to be fair and honest.
Do you have any evidence whatsoever to suggest the wrongful conviction rate is any higher than Australia's? The system is certainly different, but (and keep in mind that I studied law in Japan), I've never seen any to suggest they get it wrong any more than other countries.

This scatter-gun of random half-facts and non sequiturs makes your case seem weak and you seem...well, stoned.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: King hits

Post by Manbush » January 17, 2014, 10:24 pm

Just google forced confessions TR (haven't smoked any for about a month)

You got me into Japan so I've looked further into it and their system is **** up! Forced confessions in a country with the death penalty, **** the more I look into the more **** up they are.
T_R wrote: Also, that reading on the judicial system was the most shallow imaginable. I think you'll find there's a bit more to it than that.
There certainly is more to it

"The Japanese justice system continues to rely heavily on confessions often obtained through torture or other ill-treatment. There are no clear limits on the length of interrogations which lawyers are also not permitted to attend.
Amnesty International has documented the routine use of beatings, intimidation, sleep deprivation and forcing detainees to stand or sit in a fixed position for long periods during interrogations."
Read more http://www.amnesty.org/en/for-media/pre ... 2013-10-17

By the way this was the first article I came across when I started looking into them

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20810572
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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Re: King hits

Post by T_R » January 18, 2014, 9:35 am

T_R wrote:
Do you have any evidence whatsoever to suggest the wrongful conviction rate is any higher than Australia's? .
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: King hits

Post by Manbush » January 18, 2014, 12:03 pm

T_R wrote:
T_R wrote:
Do you have any evidence whatsoever to suggest the wrongful conviction rate is any higher than Australia's? .
:lol:
Actual numbers no, but for **** sake mate you don't think a country that forces innocents to confess to crimes through torture wouldn't? You're obviously just taking the piss now. For the record I never said they did by the way, you've added 1 plus 1 and logically came up with 2 all by yourself, all I did was mention their conviction rate was over 99%, they forced confessions and their system was **** up which I have provided evidence for.

On evidence, do you have any to back up your claim Japan's legal system is fine or Lisbon has gone to hell due to the drug policy (everything I've seen blames poverty, increased unemployment due to global financial crisis) or you just going to rely on personal stories, if so can your next one be about the time you saw Godzilla fight Mothra please :)
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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Re: King hits

Post by T_R » January 18, 2014, 1:40 pm

Japan's legal system is definitely flawed by our standards, but I've never heard any suggestion of it producing any more negative results than the western adversarial system. The claims of torture are normally stupidly exaggerated ( I don't suggest Japanese prisons are fun, they are not) and a result of the standards of the western systems being imposed on a completely different set of circumstances. For example, the 99% figure is a joke - massively fewer cases are tried in Japan than the west, and you pretty much don't go to court unless it's an absolute slam dunk. The Japanese look at some of the cases they see in America, where innocent people are locked up simply because the state can afford a competent lawyer and they cannot, with absolutely shock and contempt. Frankly, you're looking at the system through your own cultural biases, and it makes you look ignorant.

But I'm not here to defend the Japanese court system. I was simply dropping in to point out that your were wrong: There are most definitely examples where proactive and determined policing of drug laws have led to massively lower rates of drug use. Whether this is a good, necessary or desirable thing is an entirely different conversation.

For some reason, having been proven wrong, you've decided to move the discussion to attacking the nature of Japanese courts. To me, this seems like a genuinely strange thing to do, but there you go.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: King hits

Post by Manbush » January 18, 2014, 1:53 pm

You directed me to Japan mate so it was natural for me to look deeper into them and yeah I have read they don't go to court unless its almost a slam dunk but they also rely more heavily on confessions rather than actual evidence, their system is **** up and I seriously hope noone wants to follow their lead. Forced confessions though you cannot deny logic would say they jail more innocents considering they rely more heavily on confessions then evidence.

Surprisingly it appears 70% of Japanese have faith in their system but you'd have to hope that drops with the more info that comes out, it seems the general public are kept in the dark about what actually happens. After reading how their media is run its understandable how ignorant the general public would be.

If you talk harsh penalties you have to look at the justice system that enforces it. Supposedly they have the lowest crime rate (not just drugs) of any industrialised country, but at what cost. :doubt:

As for the little insults you've been throwing around it can work both ways, you're blinded by your love of Japan that you're not willing to accept what happens there and that makes you look ignorant and biased only able to go by personal experience which is unable to be confirmed.
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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Re: King hits

Post by T_R » January 18, 2014, 4:20 pm

Manbush wrote:As for the little insults you've been throwing around it can work both ways, you're blinded by your love of Japan that you're not willing to accept what happens there and that makes you look ignorant and biased only able to go by personal experience which is unable to be confirmed.
:roflmao :roflmao :roflmao :roflmao :roflmao :roflmao

My what?

I don't love Japan, and I don't love their legal system. You've obsessed with this idea of 'forced confessions' because you read it in an article you found on the internet. It's as far as you've researched it. I've said that I've never seen any suggestion that there are any more false outcomes to trials in Japan than Australia. Don't decry a whole legal system based on the tiny, tiny bit of 'research' that you've managed. Think Amnesty International is critical of Japan? Check out what they've got to say about America, or even Australia.

You don't want to be tried in Japan, then don't do drugs there. They enforce harshly. That has largely stopped drug abuse. You said that it's not possible to prevent drug abuse through penalties; I have made it clear that it largely is. That's it.

As for the 'personal experience' comment...mate, I spent two years studying law at Master's level in Japan. You spent two hours flicking through alternative media on the internet. But I'm sure you're right.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: King hits

Post by T_R » January 18, 2014, 4:35 pm

Manbush wrote: Surprisingly it appears 70% of Japanese have faith in their system but you'd have to hope that drops with the more info that comes out, it seems the general public are kept in the dark about what actually happens. After reading how their media is run its understandable how ignorant the general public would be.
This is just insulting, is at worst bigotry and blatant chauvinism at best.

You'd 'have to hope that it drops when more information comes out'? Comes out to who, exactly? Maybe, just maybe, the Japanese (one of the world's most educated populations) are a little better informed about their legal system than some clown had never given it a moment's though until 2 days ago? Maybe they aren't 'in the dark', maybe they approve the system that is in place?

And you read about their media? You mean the most accessed media in the whole world? Sure, 120million consumers got it wrong, but you've got it sorted...you read an article online. Perhaps you should write to the Australian media to make a fuss....it's not hard, you only have to send two letters - one to Packer and one to Murdoch. But sure, the other guy's system is broken, not yours.

Jesus wept, this is a farce.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: King hits

Post by Manbush » January 18, 2014, 4:54 pm

"Japan's system of exclusive press clubs has been criticised by press freedom groups. The clubs often provide major media outlets with exclusive access to news sources, while generally barring foreign and freelance reporters. The clubs provide the establishment press with access to official press conferences and background briefings with politicians, lawyers and business leaders. Critics say the club system allows the authorities to suppress news that they consider unfavorable to them and that it lowers the quality of news coverage."

Is that accurate mate?

If the general public is aware of the torturing of innocents to plead guilty then I'll have to change my opinion of the Japanese, it would be a damning indictment of any society, at the moment I'd prefer to think highly of the people as a whole.

Basically it looks like two ways to view it

A) they're ignorant of what happens behind closed doors hence the approval rating

B) they know what's going on and approve of it.

I think option A which is what I believe paints the Japanese people in a better light than what you wish me to believe.
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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Re: King hits

Post by T_R » January 18, 2014, 5:11 pm

In the west, when a body wants to give out a PR message we call a news conference. In reality, the vast majority of the media attending belong to two news media organisations - News Limited or the the Packer mob. In Japan, press messages tend to be given to an individual or a small group instead, say 5 or 6 media bodies. The same message is then reported in the mainstream media in both cases.

Really? This is your idea of a failed media system? A message is given in a slightly different format to a more diverse group in Japan. This is your idea of systemic failure?

So instead of NOT having press conferences to discuss, say, asylum seekers, as we now do in Australia, they instead have a smaller press conference to accredited media. This is your idea of a 'worse' system?

This has nothing at all to do with investigative journalism or anything else. It's the nature of how pres conferences are run (in the case of Japan) or apparently not run (in the case of Australia). If that's the worst you can find, well I'd suggest the Japanese would come out of this looking pretty solid.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: King hits

Post by Manbush » January 18, 2014, 5:16 pm

My take on it was the government controls the media and what it releases hence why the public could stay ignorant to torturing innocents. Ours isn't perfect and is controlled by special interest groups so I'm not defending them either.
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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Re: King hits

Post by T_R » January 18, 2014, 5:27 pm

Your take is wrong, even spectacularly wrong, and breathtakingly arrogant. 120 million people are 'kept in the dark', but some clown from Queensland breaks the case in a couple of afternoons. Nice work. Now lead the oriental masses from the darkness, white man.

Government in Japan does NOT control the media and are in fact much, much more conscious of separation of media and the government than we are in Australia (for example, the government broadcaster NHK has the right to tax the population directly through licensing fees, so there can be no suggestion of the government even controlling their budget - much better, surely, than the government in Australia threatening to cut ABC budgets every time they have a disagreement?).

Most complaints about the Japanese system are made by foreign journalists who go there and expect it to be the same as overseas, and then complain about it being a 'closed shop'. It's not, it's just different.

Rather than sampling a few lines of random articles on the internet and getting them wrong, take a day to read the rather cool "Tokyo Vice", written by an American journalist who worked for the Yomiuri newspaper for many years. As a foreigner on the inside, he gives a great take on the system - for good and for bad. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Vice. It's also a rip-roaring good read of the Tokyo underbelly, too, by the way.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: King hits

Post by Manbush » January 18, 2014, 5:35 pm

Cheers mate I'll have a read, does disappoint me though that the people still have a high approval rating if they aren't kept in the dark, I would've hoped they would have been as outraged as we would be if it was reported happening in Australia to a point a hacker successfully sets them up to prove it.
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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Re: King hits

Post by T_R » January 18, 2014, 5:38 pm

I don't understand what you mean
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: King hits

Post by Manbush » January 18, 2014, 5:45 pm

What part mate? Why they have such a high approval rating for a justice system that tortures innocents if they're aware of it? Or the hacker in the article I posted earlier that set up a few innocent teenagers who ended up confessing.

Hmmm I will have to look deeper into that book

http://goyamagazine.com/2012/10/02/jake ... ournalist/
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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Re: King hits

Post by T_R » January 18, 2014, 5:52 pm

Manbush, I'm going to leave this here. The sources you're using are not credible, and while I am sure that coercion exists just as much in the Japanese legal system as ours, I really think that the basic premise of your argument is based on too few sources and too little information.

I also think you need to come back and ask yourself if there is any suggestion that there is a higher false imprisonment rate in Japan than in the western system. Of course mistakes are made, but that's the case in every legal system. You seem to be suggesting that Japan is imprisoning people wrongly and I don't believe that there's any real suggestion for this. If you would like to consider a more balanced view, investigate the same issue for, say, America. The Japanese system is different, but I don't think the results are any more flawed.

I congratulate you that you're taking the time to learn more, but I think you'll have to go a bit deeper and a little broader to get a less biased, more reasonable take on things.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: King hits

Post by gergreg » January 18, 2014, 5:52 pm

Jake wrote:
Gerg wrote:Interested in your thoughts on the matter. I know you train BJJ and maybe a little MMA, do you see these sorts of guys at your gym and think to yourself 'this guy has gotta be a bit lose on the turps'?

Sorry if you've already covered this.
Our gym is a completely ego free environment. We've had guys turn up who are too big for their boots and they get their marching orders pretty quickly, but there's always another gym that will take them. I have seen it in the local MMA world a lot and personally know some guys who do it purely to inflate their ego and want to use their skills on the street. It's really unfortunate and taints the rest of us as well.

There's always a 10% of any group who ruin it for the rest, and the scary thing is, these skills can kill - quicky and easily.
I've heard the ego free thing from most people who train BJJ. I must say that there is very little ego at the Tai chi place I go to :P most of them lost their ego 30 years ago. There was a bit in the kung fu I used to do but much like your gym they didn't hang around long as the training wasn't the flashy crap you see in movies and was very repetitive and quite frankly a bit boring.
I think a lot of these thugs that go around thumping people are not actually martial artists at all. I think they dabble a little in a few arts, and probably spend more time in front of a mirror pushing weights or watching UFC and then claiming to be martial art enthusiasts. I've never understood the mentality of going out to fight but I used to see it a lot back in my clubbing days. While I was having a blast getting drunk and dancing and chasing women those other guys are looking for fights. Sounds really stupid to me.
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