King hits

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Re: King hits

Post by Manbush » January 16, 2014, 5:45 pm

No real point mate just was curious if you'd heard of it, if its use was widespread. The brain cancer was just an interesting side note I had found since we'd mentioned cancer previously, it's great that more trials are testing it for certain treatments and we're finally coming out of the dark ages where funding was reliant on negative findings.
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Re: King hits

Post by Michael » January 16, 2014, 6:37 pm

dubby wrote:
Seiffert82 wrote:Legalising drugs to reduce crime (thus making the drugs less expensive and more available to children), is right up there with the right to bear arms in the "seemed like a good idea at the time" department.
I agree. It's only the stoners who try and justify it
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Re: King hits

Post by gergreg » January 16, 2014, 8:50 pm

Jake wrote: Also... I hope the scum rots in jail. King hits are the absolute epitome of subhuman behaviour. Alcohol does cause problems (lack of inhibitions etc.) but you can't just blame alcohol. The macho culture is a blight on society and has killed the idea of having a good night out for a lot of people. I'm rambling a little bit but I feel quite strongly about these issues.
Interested in your thoughts on the matter. I know you train BJJ and maybe a little MMA, do you see these sorts of guys at your gym and think to yourself 'this guy has gotta be a bit lose on the turps'?

Sorry if you've already covered this.
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Re: King hits

Post by Seiffert82 » January 17, 2014, 5:26 am

The Nickman wrote:
Manbush wrote:
Seiffert82 wrote:Legalising drugs to reduce crime (thus making the drugs less expensive and more available to children), is right up there with the right to bear arms in the "seemed like a good idea at the time" department.
How would legalising make them more available to kids, they'd be sold like tobacco and alcohol rather than on street corners. I'd say its easier for kids to buy drugs at the moment than grog.
Absolutely. All of the teenagers I know these days don't even attempt to buy grog or drink in pubs like we did their age.

They all have to rely on their parents to get them alcohol, which results in at least their parents knowing what they're up to.
There is no way it is easier or less expensive for kids to buy drugs than it is to access alcohol. Parents who supply their underage kids with enough alcohol for parties or to get drunk are negligent, no matter what their excuse. I know families who apply this sort of principle (including the "all our kid's friends think we're the cool parents, so they trust us" ethos). It's complete Bull. In my experience, most of their kids end up a complete mess, don't finish school and are unable to hold down a job for longer than 12 months.

Anyway, I'm mainly talking about legalising drugs such as heroin and cocaine. Suggesting that as a solution is basically saying our law enforcement capability is not up to the job, so why bother. It's as ridiculous as saying we can't stop drugs getting into prisons.

On one hand society is trying to stamp out smoking cigarettes and the excessive consumption of alcohol and on the other people are suggesting we legalise other products which are clearly bad for your mental and physical health. Makes no sense.

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Re: King hits

Post by Shezza » January 17, 2014, 7:05 am

Has anyone read High Society by Ben Elton?
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Re: King hits

Post by Manbush » January 17, 2014, 7:43 am

Seiffert82 wrote:
Anyway, I'm mainly talking about legalising drugs such as heroin and cocaine. Suggesting that as a solution is basically saying our law enforcement capability is not up to the job, so why bother. It's as ridiculous as saying we can't stop drugs getting into prisons.

On one hand society is trying to stamp out smoking cigarettes and the excessive consumption of alcohol and on the other people are suggesting we legalise other products which are clearly bad for your mental and physical health. Makes no sense.
No law enforcement around the world is nor ever has been up for the job, it's an impossible war to win that costs billions and kills many people.

It's called harm minimisation, by legalising the substances would actually become a lot safer since ingredients and manufacture would be controlled. Countries around the world where substances have been legalised or decriminalised usage hasn't increased. Portugal is a great example, in 10yrs since they decriminalised all drugs abuse has halved!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/20 ... -portugal/

The war has failed time to take an approach that will save lives. Makes no sense to continue trying something that has been a proven failure throughout history that costs a fortune and kills people.
Last edited by Manbush on January 17, 2014, 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: King hits

Post by T_R » January 17, 2014, 7:53 am

Manbush wrote: No law enforcement around the world is nor ever has been up for the job, it's an impossible war to win that costs billions and kills many people.
That'll be massive news to the Japanese and Koreans - they have some of the strictest drug laws in the world and virtually no drug abuse at all.

Drink like fish, though.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: King hits

Post by Manbush » January 17, 2014, 7:56 am

T_R wrote:
Manbush wrote: No law enforcement around the world is nor ever has been up for the job, it's an impossible war to win that costs billions and kills many people.
That'll be massive news to the Japanese and Koreans - they have some of the strictest drug laws in the world and virtually no drug abuse at all.

Drink like fish, though.
New data indicate that the abuse of drugs such as MDMA (ecstasy) and cannabis is rising at an alarming pace. An epidemiologic survey conducted by the National Research Institute reveals that drug abuse in Japan is still very low compared to that in other countries and regions; however, the current situation seems to be changing for the worse
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15542746/

And since drinking is worse than most drugs is drinking like fish a great result?

And I'm guessing you mean South Korea not North since weed is legal there?
Last edited by Manbush on January 17, 2014, 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: King hits

Post by T_R » January 17, 2014, 8:00 am

Actually, the pill thing kind of proves my point - enforcement of those drugs is far, far more relaxed than for cannabis and 'harder' drugs. The argument here is that enforcement does actually work, it just has to be strict enough.

I can't comment on this 'alarming' rise other than to say if so, it's from such a low base as to almost meaningless as a statistic.

And yes, I meant South Korea.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: King hits

Post by T_R » January 17, 2014, 8:05 am

And Manbush, I note that you are quoting that link for reference. I assume that you also then agree with their statement:

"Strict law enforcement and intensive public awareness and prevention activities are indispensable in protecting young people from drug abuse"

Or is PART of that study correct, and not the rest of it? I'm confused.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: King hits

Post by Manbush » January 17, 2014, 8:06 am

Looking at Japan's laws, 1st time caught in possession gets you more jail time than rape or murder can here
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Re: King hits

Post by T_R » January 17, 2014, 8:09 am

Yes, and there is virtually no drug problem.
Manbush wrote: No law enforcement around the world is nor ever has been up for the job, it's an impossible war to win that costs billions and kills many people.
Which means that this is demonstrably false.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: King hits

Post by Manbush » January 17, 2014, 8:10 am

T_R wrote:And Manbush, I note that you are quoting that link for reference. I assume that you also then agree with their statement:

"Strict law enforcement and intensive public awareness and prevention activities are indispensable in protecting young people from drug abuse"

Or is PART of that study correct, and not the rest of it? I'm confused.
Two totally different things, one is talking an increase (fact) and the other is an theory, that's what research generally is TR.

Portugal would argue heavily on the second based on their results.
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Re: King hits

Post by Manbush » January 17, 2014, 8:11 am

T_R wrote:Yes, and there is virtually no drug problem.
Manbush wrote: No law enforcement around the world is nor ever has been up for the job, it's an impossible war to win that costs billions and kills many people.
Which means that this is demonstrably false.
Yep ok, lets lock up those caught in possession for the first time longer than we lock up rapists
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Re: King hits

Post by T_R » January 17, 2014, 8:13 am

Manbush wrote:
T_R wrote:Yes, and there is virtually no drug problem.
Manbush wrote: No law enforcement around the world is nor ever has been up for the job, it's an impossible war to win that costs billions and kills many people.
Which means that this is demonstrably false.
Yep ok, lets lock up those caught in possession for the first time longer than we lock up rapists
I'm not advocating it. What I'm saying is that your statement is false. If governments are serious about enforcing drug laws, they can be enforced.

The fact is that very few people in Japan ARE actually in jail for drug offences - the penalties are sufficient to encourage compliance. Most drugs have simply been removed from society there.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: King hits

Post by T_R » January 17, 2014, 8:14 am

Manbush wrote:
T_R wrote:And Manbush, I note that you are quoting that link for reference. I assume that you also then agree with their statement:

"Strict law enforcement and intensive public awareness and prevention activities are indispensable in protecting young people from drug abuse"

Or is PART of that study correct, and not the rest of it? I'm confused.
Two totally different things, one is talking an increase (fact) and the other is an theory, that's what research generally is TR.

Portugal would argue heavily on the second based on their results.
Both are presented as facts, actually. I assume we are to cherry pick the arguments that you agree with, and rely on those when you present a study?
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: King hits

Post by Nick » January 17, 2014, 8:16 am

"that's what research generally is TR"
:lol:


You tell him Manbush
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Re: King hits

Post by Raider Bell » January 17, 2014, 8:20 am

Lol @ Manbush.
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Re: King hits

Post by Manbush » January 17, 2014, 8:26 am

TR how does Japan's increase on drug use (not just pills) show the war on drugs there is successful, wouldn't an increase mean otherwise.

Compare Japan one of the strictest drug laws to Portugal one of the most relaxed, one is increasing the other has halved, rocket science? :hmmm
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Re: King hits

Post by Dr Zaius » January 17, 2014, 8:30 am

I'd wager that drug use in a society is reflective of more than just the laws.
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Re: King hits

Post by Manbush » January 17, 2014, 8:30 am

T_R wrote:
Manbush wrote:
T_R wrote:And Manbush, I note that you are quoting that link for reference. I assume that you also then agree with their statement:

"Strict law enforcement and intensive public awareness and prevention activities are indispensable in protecting young people from drug abuse"

Or is PART of that study correct, and not the rest of it? I'm confused.
Two totally different things, one is talking an increase (fact) and the other is an theory, that's what research generally is TR.

Portugal would argue heavily on the second based on their results.
Both are presented as facts, actually. I assume we are to cherry pick the arguments that you agree with, and rely on those when you present a study?
Surely you can see the difference TR. be like saying today is colder than the same date 10yrs ago there for global warming is false, one would be based on fact the other an assumption that they've come to from that fact.
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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Re: King hits

Post by T_R » January 17, 2014, 8:30 am

Manbush, 'increase' is near meaningless. It is a tiny number that has 'increased' from an absolutely tiny number. You said that enforcement does not work. Trust me - drug enforcement in Japan has worked.

On Portugal, I spent a week in Lisbon in November, my first time in 7 or 8 years. If you are seriously advocating the situation there as some kind of a defence of drug law liberalisation....well, you're either stoned or deranged. The city has become a complete cesspit and a no-go zone at night. It has attracted the absolute dregs of humanity.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: King hits

Post by Manbush » January 17, 2014, 8:32 am

Dr Zaius wrote:I'd wager that drug use in a society is reflective of more than just the laws.
Definitely, and no surprise the more western influence in Japan the more drug use will increase
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Re: King hits

Post by Manbush » January 17, 2014, 8:37 am

T_R wrote:Manbush, 'increase' is near meaningless. It is a tiny number that has 'increased' from an absolutely tiny number. You said that enforcement does not work. Trust me - drug enforcement in Japan has worked.

On Portugal, I spent a week in Lisbon in November, my first time in 7 or 8 years. If you are seriously advocating the situation there as some kind of a defence of drug law liberalisation....well, you're either stoned or deranged. The city has become a complete cesspit and a no-go zone at night. It has attracted the absolute dregs of humanity.
Considering drug abuse has halved though I'll have to look up the reasons and its not like Japan doesn't have their own cesspits.

Quick look on Lisbon just seems what you'd expect from a place with tht level of poverty, will look deeper though.
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Re: King hits

Post by Shadow Boxer » January 17, 2014, 8:45 am

Manbush wrote:
Dr Zaius wrote:I'd wager that drug use in a society is reflective of more than just the laws.
Definitely, and no surprise the more western influence in Japan the more drug use will increase
Of course, on a more positive note I have managed to prove a direct link between organic food and Autism

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Re: King hits

Post by T_R » January 17, 2014, 8:50 am

Manbush wrote: Surely you can see the difference TR. be like saying today is colder than the same date 10yrs ago there for global warming is false, one would be based on fact the other an assumption that they've come to from that fact.
Actually, it's nothing like that at all.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: King hits

Post by T_R » January 17, 2014, 8:52 am

Dr Zaius wrote:I'd wager that drug use in a society is reflective of more than just the laws.
Of course there are cultural factors at play.

But to counter that - a hell of a lot of Japanese people in Australia, the State and Canada puff their way through a year on a working holiday. Ask them if they'd do the same in Japan and they invariably laugh and say something along the lines of 'No, it'd ruin my life'.

Where drugs are available and without consequence, Japanese smoke as much as anyone.

I'd say your argument is more valid for Korea, actually.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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T_R
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Re: King hits

Post by T_R » January 17, 2014, 8:53 am

Manbush wrote:
Dr Zaius wrote:I'd wager that drug use in a society is reflective of more than just the laws.
Definitely, and no surprise the more western influence in Japan the more drug use will increase
Or with a return to a more nationalist outlook in Japan it'll decrease? Your statement is meaningless and is based on a completely false premise.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Manbush
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Re: King hits

Post by Manbush » January 17, 2014, 9:27 am

T_R wrote:
Manbush wrote:
Dr Zaius wrote:I'd wager that drug use in a society is reflective of more than just the laws.
Definitely, and no surprise the more western influence in Japan the more drug use will increase
Or with a return to a more nationalist outlook in Japan it'll decrease? Your statement is meaningless and is based on a completely false premise.
Or a summation from facts, drug use increasing as is western influence, like the one you claim as fact, both purely theories based on fact, not actual facts themselves. (Your one is probably correct but **** do you really want those kinds of punishment and encourage people to use a more dangerous drug heavily ie alcohol)
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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Re: King hits

Post by Begbie » January 17, 2014, 9:34 am

Tr is right about the Japanese. When I was living in Malayasia I had a second job working in this golf club. The Japanese would come over for their yearly holiday and basically get completely blotto for the whole time. Embarrassingly blotto.

I tried to talk to as many of them as I could. basically it was their one time of the year to let loose. And that they sure did.

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Re: King hits

Post by Manbush » January 17, 2014, 10:42 am

Yeah reading more it does sound like South Korea and Japan are the exception to the rule with the war on drugs.

Interestingly though it does go against what many believe regarding increasing the penalties for crimes has no effect on the levels of crime, should they be a case study to increase our penalties for violent crimes.
"My own opinion is enough for me and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time, and anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line and kiss my ass" Christopher Hitchens

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Re: King hits

Post by Please » January 17, 2014, 11:47 am

Genuine question and I'm not trying to get in an argument, just curious: say theoretically this was to happen. Part time users who are currently concerned on legal repercussion might start using more as it is all of a sudden legal.

This could potentially lead to addiction, and also lead to health problems down the track. How will the government fund more rehab clinics. In my opinion, there is a guarantee there would be an increase in the consumption of drugs if made legal - not necessarily the amount of people using it, but the actual amount being used by an individual.

I get the logic behind it, sell it to people and I would imagine a record would be kept of every person and how much they buy in order to ensure they are not using excessively. That part makes sense. What I could see happening is that won't be enough for some people, and this is where the black market trade would come into play. Gangs illegally getting the drugs and selling to people on the down-low and thus making a profit.

I've seen the affects weed has on people. It's not as innocent as people make it out to be, hence my absolute concerns on legalising any form of drug.
Well, at least Jack got paid.

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Re: King hits

Post by T_R » January 17, 2014, 11:58 am

Manbush wrote: Or a summation from facts, drug use increasing as is western influence,
I don't believe Western influence is increasing. I believe the opposite to be the case.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.

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Re: King hits

Post by Nick » January 17, 2014, 12:30 pm

Luffty - I admit im not as on the pulse of this as Manbush( :lol: ) and others, but as i understand it the main argument for legalisation of drugs seems to be we cant stop it anyways, so the government might as well legalise it, take the power away from the black market, control its distribution and production it so that people are getting a standardised form and not **** from Joe Bucktooth on the corner that's cut up with rat poision or washing powder or what ever, and then the Gov can put a tax on it and raise some revenue that can recoup some money that we're already spending to deal with the repercussions.

I don't know enough about it to say whether your concerns are valid or not, but there is some logic and apparently some reasonably decent results from this type of approach to say it might help deal with the problem, but i have to admit i dont believe that legalisation of drugs is the road to a utopian society of drug use as being suggested by some.

Ive certainly seen many MANY lives ruined by addiction to weed. I've told the story about one cousin who's entire life is an absolute basket case because he's addicted to weed and also another cousin on the other side of my family who hung himself at 17 thanks to psychosis, i dont know if the fact he smoked countless cones a day played a role in that, id suggest it certainly didnt help him, so the idea that this drug is completely harmless to me is a real laugh.
Last edited by Nick on January 17, 2014, 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: King hits

Post by Green eyed Mick » January 17, 2014, 12:33 pm

T_R wrote:
Manbush wrote: Or a summation from facts, drug use increasing as is western influence,
I don't believe Western influence is increasing. I believe the opposite to be the case.
I agree. Cross-Asian influence in the region is increasing and western influence is declining quite rapidly. At least that is what I see (Currently writing from my hotel room in Taipei)

On Portugal. I would wager massive youth unemployment and general social breakdown as a result of massive economic problems is a far bigger contributor than drug liberalisation. Across southern and eastern Europe you are seeing increases in drug and alcohol abuse. Born largely out of ongoing economic problems that are hitting the young and the poor the worst.
Luffty wrote:Genuine question and I'm not trying to get in an argument, just curious: say theoretically this was to happen. Part time users who are currently concerned on legal repercussion might start using more as it is all of a sudden legal.

This could potentially lead to addiction, and also lead to health problems down the track. How will the government fund more rehab clinics. In my opinion, there is a guarantee there would be an increase in the consumption of drugs if made legal - not necessarily the amount of people using it, but the actual amount being used by an individual.

I get the logic behind it, sell it to people and I would imagine a record would be kept of every person and how much they buy in order to ensure they are not using excessively. That part makes sense. What I could see happening is that won't be enough for some people, and this is where the black market trade would come into play. Gangs illegally getting the drugs and selling to people on the down-low and thus making a profit.

I've seen the affects weed has on people. It's not as innocent as people make it out to be, hence my absolute concerns on legalising any form of drug.
Addiction is IMO a problem of socio-economic and personal issues (mental health, child abuse) more so than an issue related to the danger of specific substances. People become addicted to what is available and what is within their price bracket. That is why cigarette, alcohol and gambling are by far the biggest problems in our society because of their accessibility. It also doesn't help that cigarettes and alcohol are more dangerous than many other drugs.

Studies in colorado and the Netherlands have shown that when liberal cannabis laws were introduced self-reported and retail figures showed consumption increased. At the same time rates of alcohol consumption decreased along with alcohol related incidents like motor vehicle accidents and assaults.

Keeping in line with my beliefs on addiction I genuinely believe liberal drug laws won't have a strong impact on the amount of addicts in society. we will just see different types of addicts.

Obviously legal weed will increase it's consumption but I don't believe unsafe and potentially dangerous consumption will increase dramatically as a result. I think the increase will be amongst casual, recreational users.

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