The Greenhouse

Good post GeM.

With the exception of banning alcohol, of course.

Green eyed Mick wrote:With Heroin it is a no brainer. 1000's of people in this country are already functioning opiate addicts. Heroin is basically a crude and powerful sedative and pain reliever. It is addictive but unlike Alcohol in doesn't have the dangerous side effect of reducing inhibitions and increasing risk taking behaviour.

It is also a respiratory depressant which causes respiratory arrest and subsequently death.

Dr Zaius wrote:

Green eyed Mick wrote:With Heroin it is a no brainer. 1000's of people in this country are already functioning opiate addicts. Heroin is basically a crude and powerful sedative and pain reliever. It is addictive but unlike Alcohol in doesn't have the dangerous side effect of reducing inhibitions and increasing risk taking behaviour.

It is also a respiratory depressant which causes respiratory arrest and subsequently death.

Of course. But these side effects don't impact joe average who smokes a little heroin once a fortnight. They impact long term addicts or people that aren't aware of the purity or the dose they are taking (accidental overdoses are common because of this). Alcohol also causes kidney failure and cirrhosis. It can also kill. But these things aren't going to happen to someone who drinks 3 or 4 beers a week.

Anyway my point is that drugs aren't the problem. Drug addication and the underlying social and mental health problems that lead to addiction are the problem. While we continue to cloud the debate with a blanket 'drugs are bad' attitude we won't be able to have the adult discussion on addiction and treatment that needs to take place.

Luffty wrote:

Manbush wrote:For the drinkers who like to judge others

" Alcohol is a more dangerous drug than both crack and heroin when the combined harms to the user and to others are assessed, British scientists said Monday.

Presenting a new scale of drug harm that rates the damage to users themselves and to wider society, the scientists rated alcohol the most harmful overall and almost three times as harmful as cocaine or tobacco."

Read more http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUST ... 1?irpc=932

Alcohol 14 times more dangerous than mushies

Just reading more on the research, crack and heroine are the most dangerous (alcohol ranked 4th) to the user but alcohol ranked highest for danger to others.

So, if you had a choice you would ban alcohol and make crack and heroin legal?

If the laws were actually about the danger of the substance then those 3 would be the first 3 banned.

Don't get me wrong I enjoy a drink but I have to laugh when heavy drinkers try and demonise other drugs without realising how alcohol compares.

Back on topic.

http://www.news.com.au/national/breakin ... 6802111177

Legalising drugs to reduce crime (thus making the drugs less expensive and more available to children), is right up there with the right to bear arms in the "seemed like a good idea at the time" department.

It's really not, Seiffert. Someone much more good with their speaking words can explain it better than me, but it actually does make sense if done properly.

Seiffert82 wrote:Legalising drugs to reduce crime (thus making the drugs less expensive and more available to children), is right up there with the right to bear arms in the "seemed like a good idea at the time" department.

How would legalising make them more available to kids, they'd be sold like tobacco and alcohol rather than on street corners. I'd say its easier for kids to buy drugs at the moment than grog.

With the Bushmeister on this one. The war on drugs has done nothing but cause more problems and the current system is clearly a mess. Eventually, kids grow up, use their own brains and realise they've been lied to their whole lives about a lot of things, namely alcohol and drugs. The only way it will EVER be controlled is regulation, and I think substances with the potential to harm should most certainly be regulated by the government... But I think it's crazy to say you don't have the right to do whatever the hell you want to in the privacy of your own home.

Also... I hope the scum rots in jail. King hits are the absolute epitome of subhuman behaviour. Alcohol does cause problems (lack of inhibitions etc.) but you can't just blame alcohol. The macho culture is a blight on society and has killed the idea of having a good night out for a lot of people. I'm rambling a little bit but I feel quite strongly about these issues.

Manbush wrote:

Seiffert82 wrote:Legalising drugs to reduce crime (thus making the drugs less expensive and more available to children), is right up there with the right to bear arms in the "seemed like a good idea at the time" department.

How would legalising make them more available to kids, they'd be sold like tobacco and alcohol rather than on street corners. I'd say its easier for kids to buy drugs at the moment than grog.

Absolutely. All of the teenagers I know these days don't even attempt to buy grog or drink in pubs like we did their age.

They all have to rely on their parents to get them alcohol, which results in at least their parents knowing what they're up to.

Seiffert82 wrote:Legalising drugs to reduce crime (thus making the drugs less expensive and more available to children), is right up there with the right to bear arms in the "seemed like a good idea at the time" department.

I agree. It's only the stoners who try and justify it

dubby wrote:I agree. It's only the stoners who try and justify it

Productive comment. What is a "stoner," dubby?

dubby wrote:

Seiffert82 wrote:Legalising drugs to reduce crime (thus making the drugs less expensive and more available to children), is right up there with the right to bear arms in the "seemed like a good idea at the time" department.

I agree. It's only the stoners who try and justify it

That's a rubbish statement, dubby. I expect better from you.



No I don't.

Do you really think people who don't use drugs want them legalised?

dubby wrote:Do you really think people who don't use drugs want them legalised?

Yes.

Or at least they should.

dubby wrote:Do you really think people who don't use drugs want them legalised?

Sensible people who understand the problem do, yes.

My dad does no form of drugs other than alcohol and he's the very person that first explained to me that they should legalise everything and regulate it properly. And he's a very, very intelligent man. Second smartest person I know, in fact.

Who's the first, Nickman?

And do you have any stats to back this claim up?

The smartest person I know is definitely Manbush. He wears glasses.

And no, I don't have any official stats to back this up, but If I were to hazard a guess I'd say it was about 2005 when Dad first floated this suggestion to me.

Oh, he wears glasses? I feel a bit silly for disagreeing with some of his posts in relation to drugs now. I won't be making that mistake again.

Certainly puts things into context, doesn't it??

dubby wrote:Do you really think people who don't use drugs want them legalised?

Wow Dubs you really need to do more reading on that, medical associations, law enforcement agencies, even Rudds 20/20 summit.

There are some drugs I think are as evil as you do and would never use but I still believe should be legalised.

The Government is inept to control anything . Legalising drugs won't solve anything . There will still be people OD , robberies because they can't afford to buy them and driving under the influence .

Still happens all with alcohol

Raidersrawesome wrote:The Government is inept to control anything . Legalising drugs won't solve anything . There will still be people OD , robberies because they can't afford to buy them and driving under the influence .

Still happens all with alcohol

Nobody's saying those things will disappear, Rra!! The legalisation won't prevent many of the problems the drugs cause in society, but they WILL take most of the criminal element, trafficking and selling out of the picture.

This isn't rocket surgery.

I love how on certain Facebook pages there is a post about legalizing pot - and the majority of people that are in support of it rite lik dis coz they r smart and pot dnt cause no damage nd it makes me smrter

I don't think legalizing all drugs will solve the problems. Do you think underworld crime will just disappear? I think they will compete with legal version

It's doubtful, dubs

When's the last time you know someone who bought some bootleg alcohol or tobacco??

Luffty wrote:I love how on certain Facebook pages there is a post about legalizing pot - and the majority of people that are in support of it rite lik dis coz they r smart and pot dnt cause no damage nd it makes me smrter

Isn't that how a lot of young people write whether pot smokers or not?

dubby wrote:I don't think legalizing all drugs will solve the problems. Do you think underworld crime will just disappear? I think they will compete with legal version

They won't disappear but they'll need to find another source of income like they did when prostitution was legalised and when alcohol prohibition ended.

One thing legalising and regulating will do is make them safer due to quality controls, you'll see a hell of a lot less over doses.

Manbush wrote: One thing legalising and regulating will do is make them safer due to quality controls, you'll see a hell of a lot less over doses.

Exactly, I see no sane reason to not do this to be honest.

As it stands right now, everybody who wants to do illegal drugs can do them. It's not like legalising them will all of a sudden turn everybody into a junkie, that's just not how people work.

Manbush wrote:

Luffty wrote:I love how on certain Facebook pages there is a post about legalizing pot - and the majority of people that are in support of it rite lik dis coz they r smart and pot dnt cause no damage nd it makes me smrter

Isn't that how a lot of young people write whether pot smokers or not?

.

Oh, it's far from just kids and even young people commenting like that.

Luffty wrote:

Manbush wrote:

Luffty wrote:I love how on certain Facebook pages there is a post about legalizing pot - and the majority of people that are in support of it rite lik dis coz they r smart and pot dnt cause no damage nd it makes me smrter

Isn't that how a lot of young people write whether pot smokers or not?

.

Oh, it's far from just kids and even young people commenting like that.

And it's far from just pot smokers who talk like that, hate to tell ya mate but alcohol is worse for your brain according to the experts.

http://m.phys.org/_news157280425.html
http://www.m.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/ne ... mage-brain

Sigh. I'm never going to win against the hippies am I?

It's not a case of winning mate just realising alcohol is a pretty bad drug in comparison to many others, being legal doesn't change that.

Ps Dr Zauis have you heard of the spray Sativex used in Australia for MS treatment? Uses cannabis extracts also a lot of positive research on treating brain cancer which (you'd know for sure)is supposedly very hard to treat.

Luffty wrote:Sigh. I'm never going to win against the hippies am I?

I don't think you understand what we're getting at here to be perfectly honest.

Manbush wrote:It's not a case of winning mate just realising alcohol is a pretty bad drug in comparison to many others, being legal doesn't change that.

Ps Dr Zauis have you heard of the spray Sativex used in Australia for MS treatment? Uses cannabis extracts also a lot of positive research on treating brain cancer which (you'd know for sure)is supposedly very hard to treat.

What's your point?

Manbush has a point??