The Greenhouse

Anyone read the results?

A Neo Nazi group that wants to plant landmines aroudn the border just won 21 seats

Fair dinkum? I saw their leader being interviewed the other night, thought he was a nutter with no chance. 21 seats is unbelievable.

Looks to be a massive shift away from any party supporting continued austerity measures. Given the result I wouldn't be surprised to see a Greek default on their debt and an exit from the eurozone before the end of the year.

What a complete mess

A neo-Nazi party who advocate forcing immigrants into work camps and planting landmines along the border are today savouring unprecedented political success in Greece.

And people complain about Australia's 2 party system, while not perfect it could be a hell of a lot worse

It is sad. Successive Greek governments sent the country to the wall and I can understand the discontent amongst the voters. However, if this new coalition gets its way and withdraws from the Austerity measures Greece will be in a far worse situation.

IMO The austerity measures were some pretty serious shot-term pain for the long-term future of the country. However, If Greece defaults it won't be that big of a problem. They will simply be booted out of the EU and left to rot for a long time.

The French elections are more concerning IMO. The world can handle Greece being booted from the EU and slipping into a massive depression. However if Hollande withdraws his country's full support for EU wide austerity measures and financial restrictions there is IMO a very real risk that Italy, Spain and Portugal will put the EU back on the brink.

Can't see any coalition being formed with those numbers...

Can't believe there is such a neo nazi presence in Greece with morons walking around with the nazi symbol..

Are they not aware of who was occupying their country in world war II?

Schifty wrote:Can't see any coalition being formed with those numbers...

Can't believe there is such a neo nazi presence in Greece with morons walking around with the nazi symbol..

Are they not aware of who was occupying their country in world war II?

The funny (or not so funny) thing is that 60 years after the end of WWII Germany has "finally" become the economic engine of Europe. They are basically dictating how the other Eurozone members need to respond if they are to get financial support through the Euro.

Given that, it is now rather ironic that neo Nazi extremism and uprisings of this nature may be the basis of politics that eventually tears countries like Greece, France, Italy and Spain away from a common European economy underpinned by Germany.

Any election that returns as many communists as fascists is good for entertainment value, if nothing else.

I'm in Europe at the moment and it's fascinating to see the sense of near boredom from people - it's broken, no one knows how to fix it and people are frankly bored with talking about the economy.

Who will give me odds that Greece will leave the Euro, massively devalue the drachma and be rolling around naked in tourism money again in 5 years?

Better than even chance.

Surely we are going to see round two of elections..

Although that might see the two extreme parties pick up more votes as there is still 25% of votes that could be won.

Leaving the Euro Zone is probably their best option, the current plan's target is to get their national debt down to 120% of gdp by 2020....

It campaigned heavily on an anti-immigrant platform under the slogan "So we can rid this land of filth."

http://www.jta.org/news/article/2012/05 ... to-fascism

Absolutely stunned...

On a related note, I'm just back this morning after a week in France.

It's amazing how negative people are about the new President there - a real sense that he was voted in by a pack of shiftless unemployed 20-somethings looking for a free ride. There is a strong sense that the country is going to go even further down the gurgler.

Europe's a bit of a gloomy place at the moment.

C'mon T_R, Francois Hollande is clearly a very smart man

Schifty wrote:C'mon T_R, Francois Hollande is clearly a very smart man

Back to the polls next month.

It is mind boggling. There is a pretty good chance that Greece are going to vote in a guy (Tsipras) who will either immediately welch on his election promises and fall inline with the Austerity pacts or he will run Greece straight off a cliff.

I don't know what their system of government is like but I wonder if the president can intervene if the government that the people elect is likely to destory the country.

Either way I hope it gets settled soon.

But of a follow up on this.

A spokesman for the F*kwit far right wing hate group "Golden (shower) Dawn" assaulted a woman on live TV during a debate..

This was after the threw a glass of water at another woman..

Story containing video is here if you want more details.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18352258

Anyway this scum bag party will be wiped out in the election in 9 days time. They were polling at 4% before this incident, need 3% to get a seat.

Now who hasn't wanted to do that to Gillard

Huge weekend in the context of the global economic recovery. I am quietly confident the Greek people have had their brain fart and will elect the sane parties this weekend.

My boss gets back this weekend from a 7week holiday in Greece, will be interesting to hear how it's been over there first hand

Finally a victory for the rational. Although half of the voters still voted for anti-austerity parties. I can't figure out how 90% of the country can support remaining in the Euro yet 50% of the country still voted for parties that would have almost guaranteed Greeces exit from the Euro and economic oblivion.

Schifty wrote:But of a follow up on this.

A spokesman for the F*kwit far right wing hate group "Golden (shower) Dawn" assaulted a woman on live TV during a debate..

This was after the threw a glass of water at another woman..

Story containing video is here if you want more details.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18352258

Anyway this scum bag party will be wiped out in the election in 9 days time. They were polling at 4% before this incident, need 3% to get a seat.

Speaking to mate who just got back this bitch and many others deserve much worse, herself and many other politicians are under investigation for stealing money from the government, 1 guy has been found to have an overseas bank account worth $85million, his wife has 3 with a least 10milion in each and by the sounds of it it's been going in for a long time with various governments.

They are totally screwed, even some of their infrastructure dates back to ancient times, sewerage pipes no larger than the average sink pipe so bins for toliet paper no flushing them, he is so stoked his grand parents moved over here.

Their pension is ridiculous to, retire at 55 on basically half of what your wage was. They are so **** I can't see any hope for Greece too many major reforms required and from he states they are the laziest group of people you could meet, and he works with me!!!

manbush wrote:

Schifty wrote:But of a follow up on this.

A spokesman for the F*kwit far right wing hate group "Golden (shower) Dawn" assaulted a woman on live TV during a debate..

This was after the threw a glass of water at another woman..

Story containing video is here if you want more details.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18352258

Anyway this scum bag party will be wiped out in the election in 9 days time. They were polling at 4% before this incident, need 3% to get a seat.

Speaking to mate who just got back this bitch and many others deserve much worse, herself and many other politicians are under investigation for stealing money from the government, 1 guy has been found to have an overseas bank account worth $85million, his wife has 3 with a least 10milion in each and by the sounds of it it's been going in for a long time with various governments.

They are totally screwed, even some of their infrastructure dates back to ancient times, sewerage pipes no larger than the average sink pipe so bins for toliet paper no flushing them, he is so stoked his grand parents moved over here.

Their pension is ridiculous to, retire at 55 on basically half of what your wage was. They are so **** I can't see any hope for Greece too many major reforms required and from he states they are the laziest group of people you could meet, and he works with me!!!

That is why these elections are a good result for the rest of us. The country is so messed up it NEEDS Germany and the EU central bank to essentially dictate how the government is going to operate.

The Greek people are suffering but sadly their options ran out a long time ago. The average Spiros on the street is going to just have to suck it up and let Germany dig Greece out of this massive ****ing hole.

The problems with Greece's corruption was that it was ridiculously wide spread and actually reached small towns.

There was one story where 80% of a town's population started claiming the blind allowance.. Recently when they did the audit *shock horror* they found about 1% were eligible to legitimately claim it.

Then there are stories about Lucas Papademos (the non affiliated PM put in charge last year) of how he was stunned how clueless both parties were about the debt crisis.

Apparently they thought it would be tough for 2 years then it would all blow over..... .

Time to bump this thread up!

Syriza's official 40 point program from a few years ago, to respond to the economic crisis. Not sure if it has changed much..
http://links.org.au/node/2888

1. Audit of the public debt and renegotiation of interest due and suspension of payments until the economy has revived and growth and employment return.
2. Demand the European Union to change the role of the European Central Bank so that it finances states and programs of public investment.
3. Raise income tax to 75% for all incomes over 500,000 euros.
4. Change the election laws to a proportional system.
5. Increase taxes on big companies to that of the European average.
6. Adoption of a tax on financial transactions and a special tax on luxury goods.
7. Prohibition of speculative financial derivatives.
8. Abolition of financial privileges for the Church and shipbuilding industry.
9. Combat the banks' secret [measures] and the flight of capital abroad.
10. Cut drastically military expenditures.
11. Raise minimum salary to the pre-cut level, 750 euros per month.
12. Use buildings of the government, banks and the Church for the homeless.
13. Open dining rooms in public schools to offer free breakfast and lunch to children.
14. Free health benefits to the unemployed, homeless and those with low salaries.
15. Subvention up to 30% of mortgage payments for poor families who cannot meet payments.
16. Increase of subsidies for the unemployed. Increase social protection for one-parent families, the aged, disabled, and families with no income.
17. Fiscal reductions for goods of primary necessity.
18. Nationalisation of banks.
19. Nationalisation of ex-public (service and utilities) companies in strategic sectors for the growth of the country (railroads, airports, mail, water).
20. Preference for renewable energy and defence of the environment.
21. Equal salaries for men and women.
22. Limitation of precarious hiring and support for contracts for indeterminate time.
23. Extension of the protection of labour and salaries of part-time workers.
24. Recovery of collective (labour) contracts.
25. Increase inspections of labour and requirements for companies making bids for public contracts.
26. Constitutional reforms to guarantee separation of church and state and protection of the right to education, health care and the environment.
27. Referendums on treaties and other accords with Europe.
28. Abolition of privileges for parliamentary deputies. Removal of special juridical protection for ministers and permission for the courts to proceed against members of the government.
29. Demilitarisation of the Coast Guard and anti-insurrectional special troops. Prohibition for police to wear masks or use fire arms during demonstrations. Change training courses for police so as to underline social themes such as immigration, drugs and social factors.
30. Guarantee human rights in immigrant detention centres.
31. Facilitate the reunion of immigrant families.
32. Depenalisation of consumption of drugs in favor of battle against drug traffic. Increase funding for drug rehab centres.
33. Regulate the right of conscientious objection in draft laws.
34. Increase funding for public health up to the average European level.(The European average is 6% of GDP; in Greece 3%.)
35. Elimination of payments by citizens for national health services.
36. Nationalisation of private hospitals. Elimination of private participation in the national health system.
37. Withdrawal of Greek troops from Afghanistan and the Balkans. No Greek soldiers beyond our own borders.
38. Abolition of military cooperation with Israel. Support for creation of a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders.
39. Negotiation of a stable accord with Turkey.
40. Closure of all foreign bases in Greece and withdrawal from NATO.

Well I definitely agree with some of those

Greeks have a bit of a history of extremist politics, and as always with politicians we should wait to see what this mob do rather than say before judging them as possibly "extreme". Communists and near communists have been elected to government, and in the late 60s and most of the 70s there were a fascist group called the "Colonels", a military junta who took over government and were so exterme right wing that they even exiled Demis Roussos and Nana Mouskiri who were idolised by old age pensioners all over the western world.
I find it hard to be dogmatic either way as to what the new government should do regarding the debt. The puritan in me says you should pay what you owe, but there is an implicit agreement in finance that the purpose of variable rates of interest on loans is to anticipate the possibility of risk of default. The lenders to Greece are now facing the justification of the risk premium in the interest they have been charging the Greeks.
Calling in the IMF or World Bank is the kiss of death for any country who calls on/has imposed their services. No country recovers from the medicine those bodies impose, which is why the US never takes any notice of their prescriptions.

The only question here is as to who blinks first - the Germans or the Greeks.

I wouldnt want to be going H2H in a who blinks first contest with the germans tbh... historically, waiting for the german's to blink has not worked out well for the world, or Germany for tha matter

BTW point number 28 is probably being struck off the list as I write this...

Well Greece has gone the full nuclear option and told Germany they owe them €279bn reparations for the Nazi Occupation

Clever

Schifty wrote:Well Greece has gone the full nuclear option and told Germany they owe them €279bn reparations for the Nazi Occupation

I feel sorry for the poor soul who had to deliver this news to Merkel.

You could only imagine her reaction

Tsipras still in power. Greece painfully crawling towards real debt relief in Q3 2018.

It was funny that Syriza.. this 'filthy lefty' party was the only one strong enough to undo the decades of prolific spending of both PASOK and New Democracy.

While painful, it was clearly better for Greece to go through this period with a left leaning party. One that still managed to grow services even with reduced overall budget spending.

Remember... for the right wingers across Europe, 'Austerity' isn't a temporary measure but their wet dream of what government should always be like.