Racism in Australia

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Manbush
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Re: Racism in Australia

Post by Manbush »

Albi wrote:
manbush wrote:Going soft gangrenous, let me try :P

I don't believe Albi is racist, just an extreme left wing nutter but by definition he could be classed as one, wanting to treat a group of people differently based on their colour rather than purely on need
You're welcome to your opinion of course :). My view is is that certain groups have been systematically neglected and discriminated in the past and as a result are profoundly disadvantaged today.. IMO by not addressing this through direct action, perpetuates the initial neglect..

And since you're getting all personal and stuff MB :( let me say this.. Your libertarian views are misanthropic, which is typical of that ideology.. Essentially it's - I'm doing ok so the rest of humanity can go get ****.. Sad really as you seem like a nice guy otherwise

mate that goes against everything I've been saying, I say we help those that need it regardless of colour, the most needy first.

Systematic discrimination is an interesting one, an aborigine can be even whiter than me (I'm as pale as can be), no signs of their ancestry yet still be eligible for special benefits just because they're 1/8th aboriginal and would never have experienced discrimination.

GEM ranting about the ill informed making comments is interesting from someone who rants about Furner and blames him for everything before actually knowing any details, Vidot case in point. Just because people disagree doesn't mean they are I'll informed, perhaps different experiences and view points.

What is wrong with wanting true equality?
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Manbush
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Re: Racism in Australia

Post by Manbush »

Part of a speech from John Ah Kit in 2002, seems even some Aborigines believe they also have to start taking responisbilty for their lives and move away from handouts and the victim mentality.

"What I am saying here today is aimed at indigenous as well as non-indigenous Territorians. For years, Aboriginal people have been saying that their communities are facing disaster, but not just because of a lack of government resources. Many, many Aboriginal people acknowledge that the rot lies within their own communities: the high rates of sexual assault, domestic and other violence are no more acceptable to Aboriginal people than they are to anyone else.

Aboriginal people feel enormous shame at the anti-social behaviour of their countrymen and women, of drunks and beggars in the streets, and of the lack of will from so many Aboriginal people to take charge of their own lives.

As an Aboriginal person myself, I feel no good when people are hassled and humbugged as they enter shops. I want those Aboriginal people to become a part of our society instead of existing on the fringes. Aboriginal people in the Territory must escape from the cargo cult mentality of government doing everything for them, of relying on the empty rhetoric of playing the victim. Aboriginal organisations must bite the bullet and develop new, innovative strategies to overcome the cancerous ideology of despair."

http://australianpolitics.com/news/2002 ... 3-07.shtml
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Racism in Australia

Post by Stuat »

Manbush. As I've been saying all along, Aboriginal communities being given control over their destiny and control over their lives, given pride back, is what I think is needed. Policy from all sides has failed to do that, it's often been prescriptive and taken those things away, given people an excuse to "play the victim", much like Australian families earning over 150k a year ;) There is more to any social problem than "individual responsibility", social standing, outside incentives etc etc all have a massive influence on outcomes. Crime isn't just "bad people", because poverty is the biggest predictor of crime, reducing criminal behavior in society at least in part means reducing poverty. In fact crime generally goes down in frequency when poverty is effectively addressed. You can say its all about the individual all you like, but the outside world speaks for itself. Circumstances matter when it comes to individual decisions. Change circumstances and you can get better "individual" decisions.

I'm not sure what your arguing tbh? It seems to me like a confused combination of idealism used to justify why we shouldn't try harder to help aboriginal communities. Nobody on the crazy left side is arguing for more handouts, just better more targeted policy.
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Re: Racism in Australia

Post by Manbush »

Never said we shouldn't try harder to help aboriginal communities, personally believe we should be doing more to help ALL the needy regardless of colour. Treat everyone equally depending on need, but that's both good and bad.

Someone mentioned earlier that if the protesters were white it wouldn't have made the news, IMO the only difference would've been more arrests, if whites did half the stuff some aboriginals get away with we'd be locked up, tent city in Rockhampton where even the police are afraid to go near, a park in the Valley full everyday of drunks abusing passer bys, not uncommon to drive past see some having sex in open view of everyone, both those cases would've been shut down in a day if they were anyone else
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: Racism in Australia

Post by Green eyed Mick »

manbush wrote:
Albi wrote:
manbush wrote:Going soft gangrenous, let me try :P

I don't believe Albi is racist, just an extreme left wing nutter but by definition he could be classed as one, wanting to treat a group of people differently based on their colour rather than purely on need
You're welcome to your opinion of course :). My view is is that certain groups have been systematically neglected and discriminated in the past and as a result are profoundly disadvantaged today.. IMO by not addressing this through direct action, perpetuates the initial neglect..

And since you're getting all personal and stuff MB :( let me say this.. Your libertarian views are misanthropic, which is typical of that ideology.. Essentially it's - I'm doing ok so the rest of humanity can go get ****.. Sad really as you seem like a nice guy otherwise

mate that goes against everything I've been saying, I say we help those that need it regardless of colour, the most needy first.

Systematic discrimination is an interesting one, an aborigine can be even whiter than me (I'm as pale as can be), no signs of their ancestry yet still be eligible for special benefits just because they're 1/8th aboriginal and would never have experienced discrimination.

GEM ranting about the ill informed making comments is interesting from someone who rants about Furner and blames him for everything before actually knowing any details, Vidot case in point. Just because people disagree doesn't mean they are I'll informed, perhaps different experiences and view points.

What is wrong with wanting true equality?
:roflmao There are no hard facts on Furner and his coaching other than his win loss percentages, defensive records, record equaling losing streak etc, etc. IMO my rantings on Furner enhance the point I am making about informed opinion. The prima facie case against Furner as coach strongly supports the allegation that he is in fact one of the worst coaches in the NRL and the worst coach in the clubs history.

All the Furner apologists have is the hypothesis that if Campo wasn't injured things would have been different. Perhaps you may be able to find some empirical evidence that supports this belief but you have no facts unlike those that feel Furner should be judged solely on his performances.

As far as Vidot goes all you have is a rumour that may or may not be true ;) Essentially all you have is the side of the story you were told 2nd or 3rd hand. Kind of the same thing as the Invasion Day protests. All you have is what you read or saw on tv which was neatly presented to enhance or entrench a certain viewpoint, far removed from the actual events of the day.

Back on topic though. Indigenous people are generally our societies most needy and the help they need is more than just money. They need a nation that acknowledges their history and their suffering. They need a nation that offers more than lip service when it comes to putting things right.

your 1/8th aboriginal comment shows how truely ignorant you are about Indigenous issues. :rant
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Re: Racism in Australia

Post by Green eyed Mick »

manbush wrote:Never said we shouldn't try harder to help aboriginal communities, personally believe we should be doing more to help ALL the needy regardless of colour. Treat everyone equally depending on need, but that's both good and bad.

Someone mentioned earlier that if the protesters were white it wouldn't have made the news, IMO the only difference would've been more arrests, if whites did half the stuff some aboriginals get away with we'd be locked up, tent city in Rockhampton where even the police are afraid to go near, a park in the Valley full everyday of drunks abusing passer bys, not uncommon to drive past see some having sex in open view of everyone, both those cases would've been shut down in a day if they were anyone else
You are so damn ignorant. Do you know anything about Indigneous crime and incarceration statistics? You pretend that these shoddy examples are some kind of counter argument to 100's of years of cold hard facts. You are worse than the 'this winter was colder than last winter' climate change deniers.
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Re: Racism in Australia

Post by Sterlk »

The impression the media is giving of the allstars game is that its all about the indigenous team... as far as they're portraying, the NRL all stars are just there as somebody for them to play against.

I don't think there was a single non-indigenous piece of pre-game entertainment.
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Re: Racism in Australia

Post by Green eyed Mick »

Sterlk wrote:The impression the media is giving of the allstars game is that its all about the indigenous team... as far as they're portraying, the NRL all stars are just there as somebody for them to play against.

I don't think there was a single non-indigenous piece of pre-game entertainment.
:roflmao Some people are pretty obtuse. Do you seriously not know why this game was proposed and what this game is supposed to be about?
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Re: Racism in Australia

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To put me to sleep.
This place is woke.
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Sterlk
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Re: Racism in Australia

Post by Sterlk »

Oh for gods sake give the arrogance a rest GEM, its getting tiresome.

Of course I know, it was started by Preston Campbell. It would be nice if the NRL All stars got a little more recognition, that's all, rather than just being the guys that are trotted out to rain on the indigenous parade.
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Re: Racism in Australia

Post by Green eyed Mick »

Sterlk wrote:Oh for gods sake give the arrogance a rest GEM, its getting tiresome.

Of course I know, it was started by Preston Campbell. It would be nice if the NRL All stars got a little more recognition, that's all, rather than just being the guys that are trotted out to rain on the indigenous parade.
I can assure you Ignorance is far more tiresome.

http://www.huliq.com/3257/study-links-c ... ice-low-iq

At least we now know why you people can't understand the issues. You just aren't smart enough :roflmao
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Re: Racism in Australia

Post by Manbush »

Mick your posts can be enjoyable when you drop your arrogance, but hypocrisy and arrogance aren't a good combo, you hate the ill informed commenting yet support the ill informed protesting over false second hand information (surely ill informed protesting is much worse than just commenting), you argued that elders condemned the actions of a few and not the protests well that's been proven incorrect as well. You are as bad as anyone on making I'll informed and ignorant comments, difference is not many share your arrogance.

On the high numbers of aboriginal arrest why do you think that may be, racism or the fact that a higher percentage commit crimes, the numbers should be even higher.

The Furner point was just to show how quick you are to make ill informed ignorant comments, you were so quick to blame him for Vidot.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: Racism in Australia

Post by Sterlk »

I second manbush.

If you were any more full of yourself, we'd simply be able to give you a push and you'd roll away down a hill. If only.

If you'd bother to read your own article properly, you'd see that the study results are only the first two short paragraphs, most of the rest is the extrapolation of the article's author. In any case, the study simply states that people with low IQs are more attracted to those beliefs, not that those with a conservative ideology are unintelligent. There is a very big difference.
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Re: Racism in Australia

Post by Manbush »

Green eyed Mick wrote:
manbush wrote:Never said we shouldn't try harder to help aboriginal communities, personally believe we should be doing more to help ALL the needy regardless of colour. Treat everyone equally depending on need, but that's both good and bad.

Someone mentioned earlier that if the protesters were white it wouldn't have made the news, IMO the only difference would've been more arrests, if whites did half the stuff some aboriginals get away with we'd be locked up, tent city in Rockhampton where even the police are afraid to go near, a park in the Valley full everyday of drunks abusing passer bys, not uncommon to drive past see some having sex in open view of everyone, both those cases would've been shut down in a day if they were anyone else
You are so damn ignorant. Do you know anything about Indigneous crime and incarceration statistics? You pretend that these shoddy examples are some kind of counter argument to 100's of years of cold hard facts. You are worse than the 'this winter was colder than last winter' climate change deniers.
Where have I said these examples are a counter to 100s of years of facts, just saying that they are gettin away with **** you or I would be arrested for, or do you believe we should let them get away with criminal behavior to make up for the past? Doing that just encourages more crime which breeds more racism
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: Racism in Australia

Post by Green eyed Mick »

Sterlk wrote:I second manbush.

If you were any more full of yourself, we'd simply be able to give you a push and you'd roll away down a hill. If only.

If you'd bother to read your own article properly, you'd see that the study results are only the first two short paragraphs, most of the rest is the extrapolation of the article's author. In any case, the study simply states that people with low IQs are more attracted to those beliefs, not that those with a conservative ideology are unintelligent. There is a very big difference.
I know what the article says. I can read and more importantly I can comprehend.
manbush wrote:Mick your posts can be enjoyable when you drop your arrogance, but hypocrisy and arrogance aren't a good combo, you hate the ill informed commenting yet support the ill informed protesting over false second hand information (surely ill informed protesting is much worse than just commenting), you argued that elders condemned the actions of a few and not the protests well that's been proven incorrect as well. You are as bad as anyone on making I'll informed and ignorant comments, difference is not many share your arrogance.

On the high numbers of aboriginal arrest why do you think that may be, racism or the fact that a higher percentage commit crimes, the numbers should be even higher.

The Furner point was just to show how quick you are to make ill informed ignorant comments, you were so quick to blame him for Vidot.

This is simply not true Manbush. You posted a statement from some elder from Goulburn. To the best of my knowledege he is not the elected spokesperson for Indigenous elders.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-01-31/d ... ection=act

This is another elder and a gentleman with a much higher profile than Mr Atkinson. He is essentially stating what I stated. That he doesn't agree with the manner in which they chose to protest but he believes that their protest is valid and necessary.

There are hundreds of reasons Indigenous people are over-represented in the criminal justice system. There are probably thousands of papers and books written on the topic.
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Re: Racism in Australia

Post by Green eyed Mick »

manbush wrote:
Green eyed Mick wrote:
manbush wrote:Never said we shouldn't try harder to help aboriginal communities, personally believe we should be doing more to help ALL the needy regardless of colour. Treat everyone equally depending on need, but that's both good and bad.

Someone mentioned earlier that if the protesters were white it wouldn't have made the news, IMO the only difference would've been more arrests, if whites did half the stuff some aboriginals get away with we'd be locked up, tent city in Rockhampton where even the police are afraid to go near, a park in the Valley full everyday of drunks abusing passer bys, not uncommon to drive past see some having sex in open view of everyone, both those cases would've been shut down in a day if they were anyone else
You are so damn ignorant. Do you know anything about Indigneous crime and incarceration statistics? You pretend that these shoddy examples are some kind of counter argument to 100's of years of cold hard facts. You are worse than the 'this winter was colder than last winter' climate change deniers.
Where have I said these examples are a counter to 100s of years of facts, just saying that they are gettin away with **** you or I would be arrested for, or do you believe we should let them get away with criminal behavior to make up for the past? Doing that just encourages more crime which breeds more racism
Many also get locked up for crimes you or I would never be charged with or would receive a fine for. It is a 2 way street Manbush and it is very ****ing complicated. That is the cause of my frustration and disdain for conservatives. They attempt to make everything black and white and if that means ignoring large chunks of facts they are happy to do it.
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Re: Racism in Australia

Post by Nick »

Yeah but your a **** greenie, and anyone with an ounce of intelligence would read their policies and conclude that anyone who openly backed them on the basis of policy, are bat **** insane and should be stripped of their vote.

A vote for the Greens is a vote for insanity. Anyone who reads the greens policy and still registers their vote for them is an idiot. Given the chance, they would bankrupt this country and plunge us in to 2-3rd world country status

FWIW, Abbott said something stupid and the only thing stupider than what he said given the circumstance was the Gillard government trying to pull a cheap political stunt, and it's back fired big time, rightfully so. Its a total beat up. But so is everything political in this country.

Not many PMs could lose an election to Tony Abbott, Gillard will do exactly that which says a lot about the trust the general public have in Gillard and her ability to sell policy. She lied to get elected (carbon tax), she lied to secure a minority government (pokie tax) and the people dont trust her. If John Howard ran, he would beat her in an election with close to a 60-65% majority, he'd embarrass her, as would Malcomn Turnbull or Joe Hockey. The only thing giving her hope of an election night blood bath is the fact that Abbott is so unlikable.
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Re: Racism in Australia

Post by Green eyed Mick »

http://greens.org.au/policies

Are you talking about these policies?

From your post it is pretty obvious you don't have a ****ing clue about the political climate in this country and I am not going to waste my time responding to a ****ing simpleton.
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Racism in Australia

Post by Stuat »

Abbott and the coalition lie about everything "lower interest rates under a coalition government" BS. That this is a high taxing government, by GDP is is the lowest in modern history, 2.3% less under Rudd/Gillard than under Howard, labor are the only government to cut spending since Whitlam, under no coalition government has spending decreased in that time period, Rudd/Gillard have done that in two years and cut the rate of increase from 3.7 ish percent under Howard to 1.5 ish etc etc Almost everything that comes out of the coalitions mouths is lies or spun to high heaven. Don't even get me started on costings.

Policy wise and policy implementation wise, waste wise, this government stacks up very well, at least the equals of the Howard government. The difference is politically they couldn't punch themselves out of a brown paper bag and haven't taken credit for anything they have done. We are the envy of the world, a triple A credit rating, low unemployment etc etc. Abbott would put that all at risk, sadly Gillards political incompetence means we might let him.

Anyone who thinks Abbott isn't dangerous IMO needs to take hard look at what he is offering, which is nothing or worse 1970's style protectionism and the like. A return to the dark ages of economics, to tried and failed policies. Thats the scary part. The greens have no hope of getting in power, they don't matter, they aren't any danger to our good standing as an economy
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Re: Racism in Australia

Post by gangrenous »

Politics thread maybe?
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Racism in Australia

Post by Stuat »

gangrenous wrote:Politics thread maybe?
Probably a good idea. That's all way off topic from me
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Re: Racism in Australia

Post by greeneyed »

Cut the personal abuse thanks. GEM and Nick, that means you too.
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Racism in Australia

Post by Albi »

Green eyed Mick wrote:http://greens.org.au/policies

Are you talking about these policies?

From your post it is pretty obvious you don't have a ****ing clue about the political climate in this country and I am not going to waste my time responding to a ****ing simpleton.
I recommend the 'block' button :)
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Re: Racism in Australia

Post by Manbush »

Green eyed Mick wrote:
manbush wrote:
Green eyed Mick wrote:
manbush wrote:Never said we shouldn't try harder to help aboriginal communities, personally believe we should be doing more to help ALL the needy regardless of colour. Treat everyone equally depending on need, but that's both good and bad.

Someone mentioned earlier that if the protesters were white it wouldn't have made the news, IMO the only difference would've been more arrests, if whites did half the stuff some aboriginals get away with we'd be locked up, tent city in Rockhampton where even the police are afraid to go near, a park in the Valley full everyday of drunks abusing passer bys, not uncommon to drive past see some having sex in open view of everyone, both those cases would've been shut down in a day if they were anyone else
You are so damn ignorant. Do you know anything about Indigneous crime and incarceration statistics? You pretend that these shoddy examples are some kind of counter argument to 100's of years of cold hard facts. You are worse than the 'this winter was colder than last winter' climate change deniers.
Where have I said these examples are a counter to 100s of years of facts, just saying that they are gettin away with **** you or I would be arrested for, or do you believe we should let them get away with criminal behavior to make up for the past? Doing that just encourages more crime which breeds more racism
Many also get locked up for crimes you or I would never be charged with or would receive a fine for. It is a 2 way street Manbush and it is very ****ing complicated. That is the cause of my frustration and disdain for conservatives. They attempt to make everything black and white and if that means ignoring large chunks of facts they are happy to do it.
Does that still happen now days or are you talking about the past, police I know (work next door regular smokos) are too afraid to touch them due to paper work potential racism claims and backlash.

I wouldn't call myself conservative, my beliefs are all over the shop but as for black and white I believe that's half the problem now days, too many grey areas and differences in the way both are treated, treat a certain group differently, more benefits and different rules just makes the situation worse and creates more racism and anger.

One of the problems I see is that certain sections just don't want to move on, too stuck in the blame game and living in the past which has never helped anyone, to truely move on and improve the situation people have to be prepared to get on with life and stop dwelling on the past, don't forget it but don't dwell on it.

Just because people don't agree Mick doesn't mean they are ignoring facts or are ill informed, people just see things from different perspectives, I've got black mates some agree with me others don't that's one of the beautiful things of man kind, show people the same info and people will have different thoughts on it.

We all agree their lives need improvement it's just the manner it's done that's different
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: Racism in Australia

Post by Green eyed Mick »

^^^^

Sadly Manbush these things still happen now. Yes there are circumstances in which leniency is afforded to indigneous offenders but more often than not they receive poorer legal representation and have less opportunies for bail or non-custodial orders. I have personally witnessed a number of incidents where indigenous people have been arrested for vagrancy, fare evasion, public consumption of alcohol, graffiti and other minor offences and subsequently been denied watchhouse bail and remanded into custody for up to 3 days. If that was you or I we would be issued the ticket or caution and sent on our way.

Secondly whilst I acknowledge that some people can see a situation differently and there are certain issues where certain facts can legitimately be interpretted 2 different ways there are However other issues where there is only 1 logical and intelligent conclusion you can draw. To disagree on certain issues is not a matter of opinion it is simply a matter of right and wrong. Climate change is quite possibly the strongest example I can think of that supports my belief that certain issues are simply not a matter of opinion.
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Re: Racism in Australia

Post by Manbush »

Green eyed Mick wrote:^^^^

Sadly Manbush these things still happen now. Yes there are circumstances in which leniency is afforded to indigneous offenders but more often than not they receive poorer legal representation and have less opportunies for bail or non-custodial orders. I have personally witnessed a number of incidents where indigenous people have been arrested for vagrancy, fare evasion, public consumption of alcohol, graffiti and other minor offences and subsequently been denied watchhouse bail and remanded into custody for up to 3 days. If that was you or I we would be issued the ticket or caution and sent on our way.

I've seen whites arrested for those same things but haven't seen whites get away with the things I mentioned. Legal representation is an interesting point, as a white man i have access to legal aid, Aborigines also have that but also have their own Aboriginal legal aid, surely the 1 is sufficient. We're seperated enough adding more differences just heightens it. IMO the more we're treated the same the closer the 2 communities will become.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Racism in Australia

Post by Stuat »

I agree. The only problem is that the advantaged treatment goes the other way. Aboriginal people have for a very long time received far worse outcomes in the legal justice system than "whites". To address that bias, more legal representation may be justified to even the playing field. Aboriginals will also face hurdles elsewhere. If you and an aboriginal person apply for a job with exactly the same qualifications, you will most likely get it. Subconscious bias "racism" at a level that isn't perceived will kick in. In fact if they use an aboriginal name they probably won't get to interview stage. How groups are viewed and subconscious biases have a huge real world effect on outcomes. Meaning the playing field for people outside the "norm" is nowhere near equal, despite "real" racism declining so much over the last 20 years. Women experience the same bias, it's why they are paid on 83 cents to the dollar men are for exactly the same job across society. It's one of the reasons they are so poorly represented at board level etc. Under those circumstances, "unfair" treatment such as affirmative action etc are justified, they are simply going a little way to evening the playing field.

Even though that treatment is "fair" it will be viewed as advantaging disadvantaged groups, because all the small advantages you and I receive are invisible to us so isn't incorporated into our worldview. Then we get the old catch cry of "reverse racism"'even when there is nothing of the sort going on. Many groups are treated unfairly at a level that is almost unnoticeable, to see it you have to look at outcomes and those show good evidence, individuals with the same qualification from many groups, receive far worse treatment than the "norm" of white heterosexual males.

In an ideal world everyone will be treated equally, on the road to that happen, a lot of white dudes, who are used to getting advantaged treatment will cry poor me, because for that to happen, the world will become a little harder for them. They will no longer be the default choice and will have to actually compete with everyone, regardless of race, gender or sexuality evenly.
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Re: Racism in Australia

Post by Green eyed Mick »

manbush wrote:
Green eyed Mick wrote:^^^^

Sadly Manbush these things still happen now. Yes there are circumstances in which leniency is afforded to indigneous offenders but more often than not they receive poorer legal representation and have less opportunies for bail or non-custodial orders. I have personally witnessed a number of incidents where indigenous people have been arrested for vagrancy, fare evasion, public consumption of alcohol, graffiti and other minor offences and subsequently been denied watchhouse bail and remanded into custody for up to 3 days. If that was you or I we would be issued the ticket or caution and sent on our way.

I've seen whites arrested for those same things but haven't seen whites get away with the things I mentioned. Legal representation is an interesting point, as a white man i have access to legal aid, Aborigines also have that but also have their own Aboriginal legal aid, surely the 1 is sufficient. We're seperated enough adding more differences just heightens it. IMO the more we're treated the same the closer the 2 communities will become.
Yes it does happen to whites but it is much more likely to happen to Indigenous persons. I have personally witnessed middle class white kids receive community based orders for serious violent offences. I have also witnessed 'white' sex offenders receive less time than Indigenous car theives. I have know of an indigenous man arrested, denied bail and remanded for 3 days for sleeping in a car in his own driveway. His only crime was being drunk and deciding to sleep it off outside, away from his younger siblings.

Sure Indigenous persons have access to a dedicated legal support service however they still have poorer outcomes than non-indigenous offenders. Manbush the Statistics don't lie. You or your friends may have a different experience but the statistics paint a very different picture.

Treating people the same is not the solution. When one group is significantly behind another treating them the same will simple maintain the gap. The only way to deliver equality is to allocate enough resources over a long enough period to effect systematic and cultural changes.
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Re: Racism in Australia

Post by FuiFui BradBrad »

Green eyed Mick wrote:Yes it does happen to whites but it is much more likely to happen to Indigenous persons. I have personally witnessed middle class white kids receive community based orders for serious violent offences. I have also witnessed 'white' sex offenders receive less time than Indigenous car theives. I have know of an indigenous man arrested, denied bail and remanded for 3 days for sleeping in a car in his own driveway. His only crime was being drunk and deciding to sleep it off outside, away from his younger siblings.
I also know an aboriginal get let off for stealing a car from a neighbour's front yard. His defence was "In the aboriginal culture, there is no such thing as stealing. If you need something, and your neighbour has it, you're free to take it"

Don't think I can get away with that defence.
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Re: Racism in Australia

Post by dubby »

Nick wrote:Yeah but your a **** greenie, and anyone with an ounce of intelligence would read their policies and conclude that anyone who openly backed them on the basis of policy, are bat **** insane and should be stripped of their vote.

A vote for the Greens is a vote for insanity. Anyone who reads the greens policy and still registers their vote for them is an idiot. Given the chance, they would bankrupt this country and plunge us in to 2-3rd world country status

FWIW, Abbott said something stupid and the only thing stupider than what he said given the circumstance was the Gillard government trying to pull a cheap political stunt, and it's back fired big time, rightfully so. Its a total beat up. But so is everything political in this country.

Not many PMs could lose an election to Tony Abbott, Gillard will do exactly that which says a lot about the trust the general public have in Gillard and her ability to sell policy. She lied to get elected (carbon tax), she lied to secure a minority government (pokie tax) and the people dont trust her. If John Howard ran, he would beat her in an election with close to a 60-65% majority, he'd embarrass her, as would Malcomn Turnbull or Joe Hockey. The only thing giving her hope of an election night blood bath is the fact that Abbott is so unlikable.
Nicks fired up!

I love a fired up Nick, he exudes passion better than anyone on the forums :thumbsup

Thanks Nick, first time all year I've seen you launch into someone. Now that bay56 has gone, you have a new target in GEM
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Racism in Australia

Post by Shadow Boxer »

dubby wrote:
Nick wrote:Yeah but your a **** greenie, and anyone with an ounce of intelligence would read their policies and conclude that anyone who openly backed them on the basis of policy, are bat **** insane and should be stripped of their vote.

A vote for the Greens is a vote for insanity. Anyone who reads the greens policy and still registers their vote for them is an idiot. Given the chance, they would bankrupt this country and plunge us in to 2-3rd world country status

FWIW, Abbott said something stupid and the only thing stupider than what he said given the circumstance was the Gillard government trying to pull a cheap political stunt, and it's back fired big time, rightfully so. Its a total beat up. But so is everything political in this country.

Not many PMs could lose an election to Tony Abbott, Gillard will do exactly that which says a lot about the trust the general public have in Gillard and her ability to sell policy. She lied to get elected (carbon tax), she lied to secure a minority government (pokie tax) and the people dont trust her. If John Howard ran, he would beat her in an election with close to a 60-65% majority, he'd embarrass her, as would Malcomn Turnbull or Joe Hockey. The only thing giving her hope of an election night blood bath is the fact that Abbott is so unlikable.
Nicks fired up!

I love a fired up Nick, he exudes passion better than anyone on the forums :thumbsup

Thanks Nick, first time all year I've seen you launch into someone. Now that bay56 has gone, you have a new target in GEM
What happened to Bay 56, is he banned again ?
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Re: Racism in Australia

Post by Green eyed Mick »

dubby wrote:
Nick wrote:Yeah but your a **** greenie, and anyone with an ounce of intelligence would read their policies and conclude that anyone who openly backed them on the basis of policy, are bat **** insane and should be stripped of their vote.

A vote for the Greens is a vote for insanity. Anyone who reads the greens policy and still registers their vote for them is an idiot. Given the chance, they would bankrupt this country and plunge us in to 2-3rd world country status

FWIW, Abbott said something stupid and the only thing stupider than what he said given the circumstance was the Gillard government trying to pull a cheap political stunt, and it's back fired big time, rightfully so. Its a total beat up. But so is everything political in this country.

Not many PMs could lose an election to Tony Abbott, Gillard will do exactly that which says a lot about the trust the general public have in Gillard and her ability to sell policy. She lied to get elected (carbon tax), she lied to secure a minority government (pokie tax) and the people dont trust her. If John Howard ran, he would beat her in an election with close to a 60-65% majority, he'd embarrass her, as would Malcomn Turnbull or Joe Hockey. The only thing giving her hope of an election night blood bath is the fact that Abbott is so unlikable.
Nicks fired up!

I love a fired up Nick, he exudes passion better than anyone on the forums :thumbsup

Thanks Nick, first time all year I've seen you launch into someone. Now that bay56 has gone, you have a new target in GEM
Parrotting factually incorrect right-wing propaganda isn't passionate. It is ignorant. But I guess Dubs you ain't smart enough to tell the difference
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Re: Racism in Australia

Post by FuiFui BradBrad »

Green eyed Mick wrote:Parrotting factually incorrect right-wing propaganda isn't passionate. It is ignorant. But I guess Dubs you ain't smart enough to tell the difference
Is your arguement to everything simply "I'm smart and if you disagree with me, you're dumb"?

Seems a bit primary school to me
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Re: Racism in Australia

Post by Off »

Parrotting left wing rants made popular from having it forced down ones throat in the brain wash camps , is hardly passionate, just about attention seeking and boring the **** out of a nation.
This place is woke.
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Re: Racism in Australia

Post by dubby »

Mick, I think brad and matt have sufficiently exposed you for the arrogant twat you are.

As tempting as it is to banter with a dullard like you, I'd rather keep my dignity and self respect by turning the other cheek.
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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