Coronavirus

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greeneyed
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by greeneyed »

Under 50s don't face the problem... AstraZeneca is already declared unsafe for you and you qualify for the safe vaccine. But go ahead... and lambast the old people who don't want to take the vaccine that can kill you.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Northern Raider »

Don't take it then. Just don't deny access to it for the rest of us like you're proposing.
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greeneyed
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by greeneyed »

Northern Raider wrote: June 10, 2021, 10:15 pm Don't take it then. Just don't deny access to it for the rest of us like you're proposing.
Any one who wants to take it, I’m not going to tell you not to. But I do hope the Australian government considers it very carefully and allows people the choice of which vaccine to have... which they presently do not.
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-TW-
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by -TW- »

greeneyed wrote:Under 50s don't face the problem... AstraZeneca is already declared unsafe for you and you qualify for the safe vaccine. But go ahead... and lambast the old people who don't want to take the vaccine that can kill you.
Yep it CAN kill you, you COULD also be hit by a bus tomorrow.

There's actually more chance of getting hit by said bus

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greeneyed
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by greeneyed »

-TW- wrote: June 10, 2021, 10:18 pm
greeneyed wrote:Under 50s don't face the problem... AstraZeneca is already declared unsafe for you and you qualify for the safe vaccine. But go ahead... and lambast the old people who don't want to take the vaccine that can kill you.
Yep it CAN kill you, you COULD also be hit by a bus tomorrow.

There's actually more chance of getting hit by said bus

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I’m not willingly stepping out on the road with a bus coming either.
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-TW-
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by -TW- »

greeneyed wrote:
-TW- wrote: June 10, 2021, 10:18 pm
greeneyed wrote:Under 50s don't face the problem... AstraZeneca is already declared unsafe for you and you qualify for the safe vaccine. But go ahead... and lambast the old people who don't want to take the vaccine that can kill you.
Yep it CAN kill you, you COULD also be hit by a bus tomorrow.

There's actually more chance of getting hit by said bus

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I’m not willingly stepping out on the road with a bus coming either.
Who said anything about stepping on the road?

Bus has a brake failure while you're on the footpath, or driving the other way.

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greeneyed
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by greeneyed »

-TW- wrote: June 10, 2021, 10:25 pm
greeneyed wrote:
-TW- wrote: June 10, 2021, 10:18 pm
greeneyed wrote:Under 50s don't face the problem... AstraZeneca is already declared unsafe for you and you qualify for the safe vaccine. But go ahead... and lambast the old people who don't want to take the vaccine that can kill you.
Yep it CAN kill you, you COULD also be hit by a bus tomorrow.

There's actually more chance of getting hit by said bus

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I’m not willingly stepping out on the road with a bus coming either.
Who said anything about stepping on the road?

Bus has a brake failure while you're on the footpath, or driving the other way.

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Sorry, but this is getting completely ridiculous. I’m out.
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-TW-
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by -TW- »

greeneyed wrote:
-TW- wrote: June 10, 2021, 10:25 pm
greeneyed wrote:
-TW- wrote: June 10, 2021, 10:18 pm
greeneyed wrote:Under 50s don't face the problem... AstraZeneca is already declared unsafe for you and you qualify for the safe vaccine. But go ahead... and lambast the old people who don't want to take the vaccine that can kill you.
Yep it CAN kill you, you COULD also be hit by a bus tomorrow.

There's actually more chance of getting hit by said bus

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
I’m not willingly stepping out on the road with a bus coming either.
Who said anything about stepping on the road?

Bus has a brake failure while you're on the footpath, or driving the other way.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
Sorry, but this is getting completely ridiculous. I’m out.
Glad you've realised you're being ridiculous

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greeneyed
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by greeneyed »

-TW- wrote: June 10, 2021, 10:29 pm
greeneyed wrote:
-TW- wrote: June 10, 2021, 10:25 pm
greeneyed wrote:
-TW- wrote: June 10, 2021, 10:18 pm Yep it CAN kill you, you COULD also be hit by a bus tomorrow.

There's actually more chance of getting hit by said bus

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
I’m not willingly stepping out on the road with a bus coming either.
Who said anything about stepping on the road?

Bus has a brake failure while you're on the footpath, or driving the other way.

Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
Sorry, but this is getting completely ridiculous. I’m out.
Glad you've realised you're being ridiculous

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I’m not the one. Over and out.
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gangrenous
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by gangrenous »

-TW- wrote:Glad you've realised you're being ridiculous
You’re being ridiculous.

All risks are weighed against benefits. Weighing decisions/risks against other risks that don’t convey the same benefits doesn’t make sense.

Would you take a pill that had a 1 in a million chance of death if you knew the pill gave you no benefit?* Don’t think you would and it doesn’t matter that there are things you do with higher risk. Because if there is no benefit, or that benefit is not worth it to you, then it’s a risk you can avoid completely.

Now let’s go to two pills that you’re told benefit you similarly. One has a known chance of killing you the other doesn’t. Which do you take? Pretty obvious right? Doesn’t matter that the odds are higher of a fish jumping into your mouth from a pond and choking you. It’s irrelevant.

Now to the closest match to our problem. You can have the pill with a risk today, but you can have the pill with no risk next week. Now the decision is whether the risk is balanced by the lost benefit over the next week. Either decision may be reasonable depending on your assessment of the risk/cost of the lost benefit and how it compares to the original pill risk.

So to summarise - if you want to convince someone it’s worthwhile to take the AZ vaccine now, if you’re dealing with someone rational then the only viable line of reasoning is that the time they have to wait for Pfizer is greater risk/cost than taking AZ now. Nothing else matters beyond adding further options that can convey the same benefit.


* To be clear because I know someone dumb is going to claim it’s what I’m saying - no I’m not saying the vaccine has no benefit!
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Dr Zaius »

greeneyed wrote:I'm quite aware of the facts. I know that there are millions of people in the USA receiving COVID vaccines and AstraZeneca isn't one of them. And I'm quite aware of what happening in Australia in relation to that vaccine. You seem to be suggesting that I'm somehow listening or reading material from anti-vaxers. That is far from the truth. I'm reading what's on CNN and mainstream media. And reaching quite sensible conclusions. And you are the person who told us that it would be better if our vaccine program in Australia didn't include the AstraZeneca vaccine.
I'm not suggesting that you are reading antivax material. I'm pointing out that there is a half truth to what you have said. You have implied that the AZ vaccine has not been approved for use in the US because it is dangerous, when in reality the drug company is yet to submit an application. This is a tactic that antivaxxers - drop a half truth, use implication to further their cause. You are better than that.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by The Nickman »

Hahaha old gangrenous saying the vaccine has no benefit... that guy
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Northern Raider »

greeneyed wrote: June 10, 2021, 10:17 pm
Northern Raider wrote: June 10, 2021, 10:15 pm Don't take it then. Just don't deny access to it for the rest of us like you're proposing.
Any one who wants to take it, I’m not going to tell you not to. But I do hope the Australian government considers it very carefully and allows people the choice of which vaccine to have... which they presently do not.
This is in total contradiction to your earlier statement
In my view, the Australian government should be withdrawing the AstraZenneca vaccine as soon as possible,
Your want choice to be taken away and make us all wait till there is wider availability of other vaccines (with their own side effects).
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Northern Raider »

Our local vaccine clinic is open later hours now. Went past about 7pm and the carpark was full. This latest outbreak in Melbourne has really ramped up vaccination efforts by both health authorities and the public.
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greeneyed
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by greeneyed »

Northern Raider wrote: June 11, 2021, 8:07 am
greeneyed wrote: June 10, 2021, 10:17 pm
Northern Raider wrote: June 10, 2021, 10:15 pm Don't take it then. Just don't deny access to it for the rest of us like you're proposing.
Any one who wants to take it, I’m not going to tell you not to. But I do hope the Australian government considers it very carefully and allows people the choice of which vaccine to have... which they presently do not.
This is in total contradiction to your earlier statement
In my view, the Australian government should be withdrawing the AstraZenneca vaccine as soon as possible,
Your want choice to be taken away and make us all wait till there is wider availability of other vaccines (with their own side effects).
I changed my mind in response to your post.

The other vaccines have side effects but ones that don’t kill you.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by The Nickman »

I'm with Fergus on this one, no way I'd take the AstraZenneca even though I know the odds are ridiculous.

I just wouldn't do it. And I routinely mock people who are afraid of flying for the same reason.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Northern Raider »

greeneyed wrote: June 11, 2021, 9:31 am
Northern Raider wrote: June 11, 2021, 8:07 am
greeneyed wrote: June 10, 2021, 10:17 pm
Northern Raider wrote: June 10, 2021, 10:15 pm Don't take it then. Just don't deny access to it for the rest of us like you're proposing.
Any one who wants to take it, I’m not going to tell you not to. But I do hope the Australian government considers it very carefully and allows people the choice of which vaccine to have... which they presently do not.
This is in total contradiction to your earlier statement
In my view, the Australian government should be withdrawing the AstraZenneca vaccine as soon as possible,
Your want choice to be taken away and make us all wait till there is wider availability of other vaccines (with their own side effects).
I changed my mind in response to your post.

The other vaccines have side effects but ones that don’t kill you.
Expertly dodged. :thumbsup
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Northern Raider »

The Nickman wrote: June 11, 2021, 9:35 am I'm with Fergus on this one, no way I'd take the AstraZenneca even though I know the odds are ridiculous.

I just wouldn't do it. And I routinely mock people who are afraid of flying for the same reason.
Is your point of agreement that you wouldn't risk it or do you also agree that he Australian Government should withdraw it from distribution?
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greeneyed
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by greeneyed »

Dr Zaius wrote: June 11, 2021, 6:16 am
greeneyed wrote:I'm quite aware of the facts. I know that there are millions of people in the USA receiving COVID vaccines and AstraZeneca isn't one of them. And I'm quite aware of what happening in Australia in relation to that vaccine. You seem to be suggesting that I'm somehow listening or reading material from anti-vaxers. That is far from the truth. I'm reading what's on CNN and mainstream media. And reaching quite sensible conclusions. And you are the person who told us that it would be better if our vaccine program in Australia didn't include the AstraZeneca vaccine.
I'm not suggesting that you are reading antivax material. I'm pointing out that there is a half truth to what you have said. You have implied that the AZ vaccine has not been approved for use in the US because it is dangerous, when in reality the drug company is yet to submit an application. This is a tactic that antivaxxers - drop a half truth, use implication to further their cause. You are better than that.
When I’m being told that the only vaccine I can have is AstraZeneca, it’s a fair question to ask why it doesn’t have approval in the USA? It’s not quite as simple as, they haven’t submitted the application yet: https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-co ... ca-vaccine

https://www.wsj.com/articles/astrazenec ... 1619721317

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/astraz ... 021-05-07/

I want to be vaccinated, but I want to know the vaccine is safe. And you yourself told us that we should wait for the safe vaccine just a few days ago: https://thegh.com.au/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p1797341
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by The Nickman »

Northern Raider wrote: June 11, 2021, 9:51 am
The Nickman wrote: June 11, 2021, 9:35 am I'm with Fergus on this one, no way I'd take the AstraZenneca even though I know the odds are ridiculous.

I just wouldn't do it. And I routinely mock people who are afraid of flying for the same reason.
Is your point of agreement that you wouldn't risk it or do you also agree that he Australian Government should withdraw it from distribution?
I wouldn't take it, even though I know it's an irrational fear. No issues with other people taking it though.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Northern Raider »

The Nickman wrote: June 11, 2021, 10:04 am
Northern Raider wrote: June 11, 2021, 9:51 am
The Nickman wrote: June 11, 2021, 9:35 am I'm with Fergus on this one, no way I'd take the AstraZenneca even though I know the odds are ridiculous.

I just wouldn't do it. And I routinely mock people who are afraid of flying for the same reason.
Is your point of agreement that you wouldn't risk it or do you also agree that he Australian Government should withdraw it from distribution?
I wouldn't take it, even though I know it's an irrational fear. No issues with other people taking it though.
Exactly. Nobody is forced to take the vaccine. It's a choice. That last part is the issue I'm taking up with GE. He is suggesting the AZ vaccine be discontinued in this country which is denying access for many of those who wish to be vaccinated now.
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-TW-
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by -TW- »

greeneyed wrote:
Dr Zaius wrote: June 11, 2021, 6:16 am
greeneyed wrote:I'm quite aware of the facts. I know that there are millions of people in the USA receiving COVID vaccines and AstraZeneca isn't one of them. And I'm quite aware of what happening in Australia in relation to that vaccine. You seem to be suggesting that I'm somehow listening or reading material from anti-vaxers. That is far from the truth. I'm reading what's on CNN and mainstream media. And reaching quite sensible conclusions. And you are the person who told us that it would be better if our vaccine program in Australia didn't include the AstraZeneca vaccine.
I'm not suggesting that you are reading antivax material. I'm pointing out that there is a half truth to what you have said. You have implied that the AZ vaccine has not been approved for use in the US because it is dangerous, when in reality the drug company is yet to submit an application. This is a tactic that antivaxxers - drop a half truth, use implication to further their cause. You are better than that.
When I’m being told that the only vaccine I can have is AstraZeneca, it’s a fair question to ask why it doesn’t have approval in the USA? It’s not quite as simple as, they haven’t submitted the application yet: https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-co ... ca-vaccine

https://www.wsj.com/articles/astrazenec ... 1619721317

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/astraz ... 021-05-07/

I want to be vaccinated, but I want to know the vaccine is safe. And you yourself told us that we should wait for the safe vaccine just a few days ago: https://thegh.com.au/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p1797341
It doesn't have full approval anywhere in the world.

Its the same with Pfizer, it has emergency authorisation in the US and provisional approval here.

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by greeneyed »

You’re not telling me anything... I understand all that.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by -TW- »

I'm honestly not sure what your point is anymore.

Your whole argument seems to be you don't want it cause you don't want to die, which in Australia is currently a probability of 1/1.8 million, and you're claiming it's not safe yet there has also been 8000 adverse reactions reported to the Pfizer vaccine..

Is it also not safe?

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greeneyed
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by greeneyed »

You’re deliberately obfuscating. And I’m not aware of death being a side effect of the Pfizer vaccine.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by -TW- »

https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1372

Likely responsible for 10 deaths in Norway

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greeneyed
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by greeneyed »

You did read that article didn’t you? In any case, I’ll let the person in the thread with medical qualifications to draw the conclusions.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by -TW- »

Yes I did.

So should we put a hold on Pfizer too or is it fine cause these people were "likely to die anyway"?

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Dr Zaius »

greeneyed wrote:
Dr Zaius wrote: June 11, 2021, 6:16 am
greeneyed wrote:I'm quite aware of the facts. I know that there are millions of people in the USA receiving COVID vaccines and AstraZeneca isn't one of them. And I'm quite aware of what happening in Australia in relation to that vaccine. You seem to be suggesting that I'm somehow listening or reading material from anti-vaxers. That is far from the truth. I'm reading what's on CNN and mainstream media. And reaching quite sensible conclusions. And you are the person who told us that it would be better if our vaccine program in Australia didn't include the AstraZeneca vaccine.
I'm not suggesting that you are reading antivax material. I'm pointing out that there is a half truth to what you have said. You have implied that the AZ vaccine has not been approved for use in the US because it is dangerous, when in reality the drug company is yet to submit an application. This is a tactic that antivaxxers - drop a half truth, use implication to further their cause. You are better than that.
When I’m being told that the only vaccine I can have is AstraZeneca, it’s a fair question to ask why it doesn’t have approval in the USA? It’s not quite as simple as, they haven’t submitted the application yet: https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-co ... ca-vaccine

https://www.wsj.com/articles/astrazenec ... 1619721317

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/astraz ... 021-05-07/

I want to be vaccinated, but I want to know the vaccine is safe. And you yourself told us that we should wait for the safe vaccine just a few days ago: https://thegh.com.au/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p1797341
I know what I said, and I stand by it. There are safer options, they should and will be made available. But in the interim, there is AZ, and which has low, but real risks. Everyone's risk tolerance is different. I'm not disagreeing with you, so don't get so defensive. I'm simply pointing out that you need to be careful in the way you drop in half truths, because that is how misinformation is spread. AZ has not been approved for use in the US as they have not submitted an application. The reason for that I believe, but may be wrong, is that the US insist on data from US trials, and most AZ trials were off shore, and there has been difficulty pulling the data together. They way you have dropped in the little tidbit that it has not been approved in the US implies that it was rejected as it was unsafe. This is incorrect, and shares similarities with
how antivaxxers spread misinformation.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by greeneyed »

Dr Zaius wrote: June 11, 2021, 8:17 pm
greeneyed wrote:
Dr Zaius wrote: June 11, 2021, 6:16 am
greeneyed wrote:I'm quite aware of the facts. I know that there are millions of people in the USA receiving COVID vaccines and AstraZeneca isn't one of them. And I'm quite aware of what happening in Australia in relation to that vaccine. You seem to be suggesting that I'm somehow listening or reading material from anti-vaxers. That is far from the truth. I'm reading what's on CNN and mainstream media. And reaching quite sensible conclusions. And you are the person who told us that it would be better if our vaccine program in Australia didn't include the AstraZeneca vaccine.
I'm not suggesting that you are reading antivax material. I'm pointing out that there is a half truth to what you have said. You have implied that the AZ vaccine has not been approved for use in the US because it is dangerous, when in reality the drug company is yet to submit an application. This is a tactic that antivaxxers - drop a half truth, use implication to further their cause. You are better than that.
When I’m being told that the only vaccine I can have is AstraZeneca, it’s a fair question to ask why it doesn’t have approval in the USA? It’s not quite as simple as, they haven’t submitted the application yet: https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-co ... ca-vaccine

https://www.wsj.com/articles/astrazenec ... 1619721317

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/astraz ... 021-05-07/

I want to be vaccinated, but I want to know the vaccine is safe. And you yourself told us that we should wait for the safe vaccine just a few days ago: https://thegh.com.au/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p1797341
I know what I said, and I stand by it. There are safer options, they should and will be made available. But in the interim, there is AZ, and which has low, but real risks. Everyone's risk tolerance is different. I'm not disagreeing with you, so don't get so defensive. I'm simply pointing out that you need to be careful in the way you drop in half truths, because that is how misinformation is spread. AZ has not been approved for use in the US as they have not submitted an application. The reason for that I believe, but may be wrong, is that the US insist on data from US trials, and most AZ trials were off shore, and there has been difficulty pulling the data together. They way you have dropped in the little tidbit that it has not been approved in the US implies that it was rejected as it was unsafe. This is incorrect, and shares similarities with
how antivaxxers spread misinformation.
I've never said it was rejected and don't believe I've said anything that is incorrect, nor have I ever aimed to spread misinformation.
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gangrenous
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by gangrenous »

He’s right GE, if no vaccine is approved it is misleading to cite no approval of AZ as a strike against.

It may be technically right, but it’s not a fair argument to make.
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Re: Coronavirus

Post by irvste »

Each to their own I was concerned about AZ but having done enough research I personally felt comfortable in taking it and for me didn't want to wait.. I'm fifty as well.. Fifty too or ok fifty two and refusing to spell correctly..

But I respect ge for making his own choice and waiting for another vaccine.. that I get.. I don't get anti Vax but only when they push that view onto others otherwise I don't care about their views either

Anti vaxxers tend be too much like religious zealots.. Have your view if u want but.. *** u if u r pushing it down other people's throats

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Re: Coronavirus

Post by Northern Raider »

greeneyed wrote: June 11, 2021, 8:26 pm
Dr Zaius wrote: June 11, 2021, 8:17 pm
greeneyed wrote:
Dr Zaius wrote: June 11, 2021, 6:16 am
greeneyed wrote:I'm quite aware of the facts. I know that there are millions of people in the USA receiving COVID vaccines and AstraZeneca isn't one of them. And I'm quite aware of what happening in Australia in relation to that vaccine. You seem to be suggesting that I'm somehow listening or reading material from anti-vaxers. That is far from the truth. I'm reading what's on CNN and mainstream media. And reaching quite sensible conclusions. And you are the person who told us that it would be better if our vaccine program in Australia didn't include the AstraZeneca vaccine.
I'm not suggesting that you are reading antivax material. I'm pointing out that there is a half truth to what you have said. You have implied that the AZ vaccine has not been approved for use in the US because it is dangerous, when in reality the drug company is yet to submit an application. This is a tactic that antivaxxers - drop a half truth, use implication to further their cause. You are better than that.
When I’m being told that the only vaccine I can have is AstraZeneca, it’s a fair question to ask why it doesn’t have approval in the USA? It’s not quite as simple as, they haven’t submitted the application yet: https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-co ... ca-vaccine

https://www.wsj.com/articles/astrazenec ... 1619721317

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/astraz ... 021-05-07/

I want to be vaccinated, but I want to know the vaccine is safe. And you yourself told us that we should wait for the safe vaccine just a few days ago: https://thegh.com.au/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p1797341
I know what I said, and I stand by it. There are safer options, they should and will be made available. But in the interim, there is AZ, and which has low, but real risks. Everyone's risk tolerance is different. I'm not disagreeing with you, so don't get so defensive. I'm simply pointing out that you need to be careful in the way you drop in half truths, because that is how misinformation is spread. AZ has not been approved for use in the US as they have not submitted an application. The reason for that I believe, but may be wrong, is that the US insist on data from US trials, and most AZ trials were off shore, and there has been difficulty pulling the data together. They way you have dropped in the little tidbit that it has not been approved in the US implies that it was rejected as it was unsafe. This is incorrect, and shares similarities with
how antivaxxers spread misinformation.
I've never said it was rejected and don't believe I've said anything that is incorrect, nor have I ever aimed to spread misinformation.
greeneyed wrote: June 5, 2021, 11:02 pmMeanwhile, the USA is refusing to allow its use in their own country... but they’re giving their stocks of AstraZeneca to poor countries... If it’s not good enough for the citizens of the USA I’m certainly not taking it.
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Dr Zaius
Mal Meninga
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Location: Queensland somewhere

Re: Coronavirus

Post by Dr Zaius »

greeneyed wrote:
Dr Zaius wrote: June 11, 2021, 8:17 pm
greeneyed wrote:
Dr Zaius wrote: June 11, 2021, 6:16 am
greeneyed wrote:I'm quite aware of the facts. I know that there are millions of people in the USA receiving COVID vaccines and AstraZeneca isn't one of them. And I'm quite aware of what happening in Australia in relation to that vaccine. You seem to be suggesting that I'm somehow listening or reading material from anti-vaxers. That is far from the truth. I'm reading what's on CNN and mainstream media. And reaching quite sensible conclusions. And you are the person who told us that it would be better if our vaccine program in Australia didn't include the AstraZeneca vaccine.
I'm not suggesting that you are reading antivax material. I'm pointing out that there is a half truth to what you have said. You have implied that the AZ vaccine has not been approved for use in the US because it is dangerous, when in reality the drug company is yet to submit an application. This is a tactic that antivaxxers - drop a half truth, use implication to further their cause. You are better than that.
When I’m being told that the only vaccine I can have is AstraZeneca, it’s a fair question to ask why it doesn’t have approval in the USA? It’s not quite as simple as, they haven’t submitted the application yet: https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-co ... ca-vaccine

https://www.wsj.com/articles/astrazenec ... 1619721317

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/astraz ... 021-05-07/

I want to be vaccinated, but I want to know the vaccine is safe. And you yourself told us that we should wait for the safe vaccine just a few days ago: https://thegh.com.au/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p1797341
I know what I said, and I stand by it. There are safer options, they should and will be made available. But in the interim, there is AZ, and which has low, but real risks. Everyone's risk tolerance is different. I'm not disagreeing with you, so don't get so defensive. I'm simply pointing out that you need to be careful in the way you drop in half truths, because that is how misinformation is spread. AZ has not been approved for use in the US as they have not submitted an application. The reason for that I believe, but may be wrong, is that the US insist on data from US trials, and most AZ trials were off shore, and there has been difficulty pulling the data together. They way you have dropped in the little tidbit that it has not been approved in the US implies that it was rejected as it was unsafe. This is incorrect, and shares similarities with
how antivaxxers spread misinformation.
I've never said it was rejected and don't believe I've said anything that is incorrect, nor have I ever aimed to spread misinformation.
You did not say that it was rejected, nor did you say anything that was incorrect.

But the way you posted implied that it was rejected. You took your half truth to further your point in a dubious way. This is a tactic of antivaxxers, which I am aware that you are not. I honestly can't make this any clearer and suspect that you are deliberately missing the point.
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greeneyed
Don Furner
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Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: Coronavirus

Post by greeneyed »

Northern Raider wrote: June 11, 2021, 9:19 pm
greeneyed wrote: June 11, 2021, 8:26 pm
Dr Zaius wrote: June 11, 2021, 8:17 pm
greeneyed wrote:
Dr Zaius wrote: June 11, 2021, 6:16 am I'm not suggesting that you are reading antivax material. I'm pointing out that there is a half truth to what you have said. You have implied that the AZ vaccine has not been approved for use in the US because it is dangerous, when in reality the drug company is yet to submit an application. This is a tactic that antivaxxers - drop a half truth, use implication to further their cause. You are better than that.
When I’m being told that the only vaccine I can have is AstraZeneca, it’s a fair question to ask why it doesn’t have approval in the USA? It’s not quite as simple as, they haven’t submitted the application yet: https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-co ... ca-vaccine

https://www.wsj.com/articles/astrazenec ... 1619721317

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/astraz ... 021-05-07/

I want to be vaccinated, but I want to know the vaccine is safe. And you yourself told us that we should wait for the safe vaccine just a few days ago: https://thegh.com.au/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p1797341
I know what I said, and I stand by it. There are safer options, they should and will be made available. But in the interim, there is AZ, and which has low, but real risks. Everyone's risk tolerance is different. I'm not disagreeing with you, so don't get so defensive. I'm simply pointing out that you need to be careful in the way you drop in half truths, because that is how misinformation is spread. AZ has not been approved for use in the US as they have not submitted an application. The reason for that I believe, but may be wrong, is that the US insist on data from US trials, and most AZ trials were off shore, and there has been difficulty pulling the data together. They way you have dropped in the little tidbit that it has not been approved in the US implies that it was rejected as it was unsafe. This is incorrect, and shares similarities with
how antivaxxers spread misinformation.
I've never said it was rejected and don't believe I've said anything that is incorrect, nor have I ever aimed to spread misinformation.
greeneyed wrote: June 5, 2021, 11:02 pmMeanwhile, the USA is refusing to allow its use in their own country... but they’re giving their stocks of AstraZeneca to poor countries... If it’s not good enough for the citizens of the USA I’m certainly not taking it.
If you look at the stories I’ve quoted, I’ve not said anything incorrect there either. Have a read of the mainstream media stories.

I’m pro vaccines. I want to take a safe COVID vaccine as soon as I can. The trouble is, if the authorities don’t make sure the vaccines they permit are safe... then that’s the thing that’s really going to feed antivax campaigns.
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