The Politics Thread 2021

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hobbsy
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by hobbsy »

the bone wrote: March 2, 2021, 10:42 pm There’s a reasonable chunk of the electorate that don’t actively follow politics or even news at all. But when an election rolls around, even for these people it is difficult to miss the political conversation, which they’re going to hear from traditional news sources because if they’re not political, it’s not going to be on their news feed. And when all they hear is a blitzkrieg from Murdoch media that Labor will raise their taxes, I find it very difficult to believe that doesn’t influence their vote. Yes, Labor have their own problems, but these things are not mutually exclusive.
This hits it on the head for me. So many people I know do absolutely zero research in the lead up to an election and are absolutely influenced by the media. They may not be sitting around reading the paper in a cafe but they still see the front page while waiting for a table, when scrolling through their phone they will see a stack of click bait headlines and top comments but won't read the actual article. If voting wasn't compulsory they wouldn't even get out on election day but they have to so they do and number the boxes based on nothing more than these headlines they've seen over the past year.
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The Politics Thread 2021

Post by The Nickman »

hobbsy wrote:
the bone wrote: March 2, 2021, 10:42 pm There’s a reasonable chunk of the electorate that don’t actively follow politics or even news at all. But when an election rolls around, even for these people it is difficult to miss the political conversation, which they’re going to hear from traditional news sources because if they’re not political, it’s not going to be on their news feed. And when all they hear is a blitzkrieg from Murdoch media that Labor will raise their taxes, I find it very difficult to believe that doesn’t influence their vote. Yes, Labor have their own problems, but these things are not mutually exclusive.
This hits it on the head for me. So many people I know do absolutely zero research in the lead up to an election and are absolutely influenced by the media. They may not be sitting around reading the paper in a cafe but they still see the front page while waiting for a table, when scrolling through their phone they will see a stack of click bait headlines and top comments but won't read the actual article. If voting wasn't compulsory they wouldn't even get out on election day but they have to so they do and number the boxes based on nothing more than these headlines they've seen over the past year.
That’s rubbish, the absolute majority of people I know, of all ages, have a Facebook feed absolutely chock FULL of whatever articles support their own echo chamber.

It’s why so many people today are completely bewildered when their party doesn’t win, because all they see is other like-minded folk echoing their own opinions. “It must be Murdoch’s fault”, “it must be Palmer’s fault”, “it’s fake news”, “this election was rigged”, “stop the steal”... no, your party lost because the majority of people voted for the other mob, despite the fact you surround yourself with like minded people who echo your beliefs and unfollow those who disagree
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by the bone »

The Nickman wrote: March 3, 2021, 8:53 am
hobbsy wrote:
the bone wrote: March 2, 2021, 10:42 pm There’s a reasonable chunk of the electorate that don’t actively follow politics or even news at all. But when an election rolls around, even for these people it is difficult to miss the political conversation, which they’re going to hear from traditional news sources because if they’re not political, it’s not going to be on their news feed. And when all they hear is a blitzkrieg from Murdoch media that Labor will raise their taxes, I find it very difficult to believe that doesn’t influence their vote. Yes, Labor have their own problems, but these things are not mutually exclusive.
This hits it on the head for me. So many people I know do absolutely zero research in the lead up to an election and are absolutely influenced by the media. They may not be sitting around reading the paper in a cafe but they still see the front page while waiting for a table, when scrolling through their phone they will see a stack of click bait headlines and top comments but won't read the actual article. If voting wasn't compulsory they wouldn't even get out on election day but they have to so they do and number the boxes based on nothing more than these headlines they've seen over the past year.
That’s rubbish, the absolute majority of people I know, of all ages, have a Facebook feed absolutely chock FULL of whatever articles support their own echo chamber.

It’s why so many people today are completely bewildered when their party doesn’t win, because all they see is other like-minded folk echoing their own opinions. “It must be Murdoch’s fault”, “it must be Palmer’s fault”, “it’s fake news”, “this election was rigged”, “stop the steal”... no, your party lost because the majority of people voted for the other mob, despite the fact you surround yourself with like minded people who echo your beliefs and unfollow those who disagree
It’s not rubbish Nickman. There’s a reasonable chunk of the electorate that don’t actively follow politics or even news at all. To say otherwise is either disingenuous or naive.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Coastalraider »

hobbsy wrote: March 3, 2021, 8:20 am
the bone wrote: March 2, 2021, 10:42 pm There’s a reasonable chunk of the electorate that don’t actively follow politics or even news at all. But when an election rolls around, even for these people it is difficult to miss the political conversation, which they’re going to hear from traditional news sources because if they’re not political, it’s not going to be on their news feed. And when all they hear is a blitzkrieg from Murdoch media that Labor will raise their taxes, I find it very difficult to believe that doesn’t influence their vote. Yes, Labor have their own problems, but these things are not mutually exclusive.
This hits it on the head for me. So many people I know do absolutely zero research in the lead up to an election and are absolutely influenced by the media. They may not be sitting around reading the paper in a cafe but they still see the front page while waiting for a table, when scrolling through their phone they will see a stack of click bait headlines and top comments but won't read the actual article. If voting wasn't compulsory they wouldn't even get out on election day but they have to so they do and number the boxes based on nothing more than these headlines they've seen over the past year.
To take that to the next level, and this is from my personal experience of my youth, most of the people I knew, including myself, didn't even look at policy, they look for who they think would be the best leader of the country based on perception of character, and trusted they would do the right thing by the country. Unfortunately we have an exceptionally uncharismatic group at the moment.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by hobbsy »

The Nickman wrote: March 3, 2021, 8:53 am
hobbsy wrote:
the bone wrote: March 2, 2021, 10:42 pm There’s a reasonable chunk of the electorate that don’t actively follow politics or even news at all. But when an election rolls around, even for these people it is difficult to miss the political conversation, which they’re going to hear from traditional news sources because if they’re not political, it’s not going to be on their news feed. And when all they hear is a blitzkrieg from Murdoch media that Labor will raise their taxes, I find it very difficult to believe that doesn’t influence their vote. Yes, Labor have their own problems, but these things are not mutually exclusive.
This hits it on the head for me. So many people I know do absolutely zero research in the lead up to an election and are absolutely influenced by the media. They may not be sitting around reading the paper in a cafe but they still see the front page while waiting for a table, when scrolling through their phone they will see a stack of click bait headlines and top comments but won't read the actual article. If voting wasn't compulsory they wouldn't even get out on election day but they have to so they do and number the boxes based on nothing more than these headlines they've seen over the past year.
That’s rubbish, the absolute majority of people I know, of all ages, have a Facebook feed absolutely chock FULL of whatever articles support their own echo chamber.

It’s why so many people today are completely bewildered when their party doesn’t win, because all they see is other like-minded folk echoing their own opinions. “It must be Murdoch’s fault”, “it must be Palmer’s fault”, “it’s fake news”, “this election was rigged”, “stop the steal”... no, your party lost because the majority of people voted for the other mob, despite the fact you surround yourself with like minded people who echo your beliefs and unfollow those who disagree

Exactly it is an echo chamber, that's the point. That's how their views are influenced. They don't care about politics so they aren't surprised about anything, they don't have a party. I can tell you it is an absolute fact that a significant number of people in my social circle only know what they see from gold coast bulletin or courier mail headlines, which is what clogs their feed as their friends tag each other in the comments. I've literally had these conversations with them when they've asked me "who should I vote for?" the day before an election. These people definitely exist.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by greeneyed »

Thankfully we don’t have this sort of thing here. And it’s thanks to a strong response from our State Governments.

Republican governors go rogue on reopenings: https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/03/poli ... index.html
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The Politics Thread 2021

Post by gangrenous »

Appreciate the input from hobbsy, bone, Coastal, M_R. Maybe T_R, Nickman and pigman need to ask themselves whether they are in an echo chamber, not of news perhaps, but of the circles of people they roll in. Because the impact of the right wing media, particularly the hyper-partisan built on Bull or half truths, seems pretty clear to me in people I talk to.

To take it to the extreme examples, look at the rise of QAnon , election fraud, and in Australia the scamdemic memes. There seem to be far more people falling into utter lunacy on the right wing side than the left. It is being enabled by the media.

But it’s the **** crazy tip of the iceberg. Look at how Murdoch media influenced the conversation about bushfires - shifting it away from the lack of preparation and climate change to arson and it being the greenies fault. Neither of those ended up with a finding of significance in the royal commission led by this government, which shows you how overblown they got in the media.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/08/worl ... ation.html
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by gangrenous »

Another thought experiment for those who can handle them.

I would say jobkeeper/jobseeker payments have fairly bipartisan support, here and elsewhere. You can quibble on some of the finer points, but I think in general most people would say it was the correct move and has been a factor in our economic strength.

Now imagine Labor had taken the 2019 election, and faced with COVID had settled on the exact same policy. What would the response in the media, and from the LNP have been?

Because I feel very confident to say that this would not have been reported and softly critiqued as took place in our timeline. I believe the media would have seized the opportunity and attacked relentlessly on this for months. There would have been endless articles on the debt and deficit catastrophe, how the ALP were pissing money into the wind just as they had in the GFC, how so many people were demotivated to look for work due to the ridiculous welfare state. I think there would have been huge pressure to drop the payments and open up the economy, and that would have fuelled that sentiment in society to the point where taking the UK/US route would have been the prevailing “wisdom”.

That’s a problem.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by The Nickman »

gangrenous wrote:Appreciate the input from hobbsy, bone, Coastal, M_R. Maybe T_R, Nickman and pigman need to ask themselves whether they are in an echo chamber, not of news perhaps, but of the circles of people they roll in. Because the impact of the right wing media, particularly the hyper-partisan built on Bull or half truths, seems pretty clear to me in people I talk to.
The irony of this paragraph is absolutely not lost on me... surely this is satire?
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Botman »

gangrenous wrote: March 4, 2021, 6:37 am Appreciate the input from hobbsy, bone, Coastal, M_R. Maybe T_R, Nickman and pigman need to ask themselves whether they are in an echo chamber, not of news perhaps, but of the circles of people they roll in.
If that were the case I would be all in on your side of this.
But its great to know you exclusively appreciate the input from people that absolutely 100% agree with you and dismiss the views of those who dont.

Huh? What echo chamber...
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by The Nickman »

The fact that gangrenous accuses the three of us as only being in "circles" of right wing people is laughable at best. I have a wide range of political friends in my facebook feed, and I'd have to say the left-leaning ones dominate most discussions that I see, and I have to say are often the opinions I respect the most. I've also gone as far as to Unfollow many of the more "radical" right-wing friends, as some of their viewpoints and opinions on the world are quite disgusting.

And Botman has also claimed that the majority of his friends are left-leaning, and considering I roll with him in some of the same circles, I can 100% attest to that statement. In groups that we both frequent, there's not a lot of right-wing saber rattling and there's a LOT of the anti-Morrison, anti-Murdoch hand-wringing that we see in this very thread.

TR runs an international language school, so just hazarding a guess, I'd say the majority of his friends and colleagues are also left-leaning, and at the very worst I'd say he has a broad dichotomy of viewpoints making up his daily discourse.

We then compare that to THIS statement:
gangrenous wrote:Because the impact of the right wing media, particularly the hyper-partisan built on Bull or half truths, seems pretty clear to me in people I talk to.
Seems to me there's one of us living in an echo chamber here... and it ain't TR, Botman or myself.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by The Nickman »

Actually... the more I review gangrenous' post, the more I realise it simply HAS to be an elaborate dubby-trap... we're dubbying aren't we?

You got us!! Fairgoitall!!
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Dr Zaius »

The Nickman wrote:Actually... the more I review gangrenous' post, the more I realise it simply HAS to be an elaborate dubby-trap... we're dubbying aren't we?

You got us!! Fairgoitall!!
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by The Nickman »

Dr Zaius wrote: March 4, 2021, 12:34 pm
The Nickman wrote:Actually... the more I review gangrenous' post, the more I realise it simply HAS to be an elaborate dubby-trap... we're dubbying aren't we?
You got us!! Fairgoitall!!
He's been playing the long game old friend Image
Honestly, it's embarrassing for guys like myself and Botman, given our relative experience, to stumble so blindly into such an obvious dubby trap.

gangrenous must be laughing all the way to the bank here.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Coastalraider »

The Nickman wrote: March 4, 2021, 12:01 pm The fact that gangrenous accuses the three of us as only being in "circles" of right wing people is laughable at best.
gangrenous wrote:Because the impact of the right wing media, particularly the hyper-partisan built on Bull or half truths, seems pretty clear to me in people I talk to.
Seems to me there's one of us living in an echo chamber here... and it ain't TR, Botman or myself.
And strangely you and I seem to agree on most points, so Im not sure how your echo chamber is more important than mine.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by T_R »

The Nickman wrote: March 4, 2021, 12:01 pm The fact that gangrenous accuses the three of us as only being in "circles" of right wing people is laughable at best. I have a wide range of political friends in my facebook feed, and I'd have to say the left-leaning ones dominate most discussions that I see, and I have to say are often the opinions I respect the most. I've also gone as far as to Unfollow many of the more "radical" right-wing friends, as some of their viewpoints and opinions on the world are quite disgusting.

And Botman has also claimed that the majority of his friends are left-leaning, and considering I roll with him in some of the same circles, I can 100% attest to that statement. In groups that we both frequent, there's not a lot of right-wing saber rattling and there's a LOT of the anti-Morrison, anti-Murdoch hand-wringing that we see in this very thread.

TR runs an international language school, so just hazarding a guess, I'd say the majority of his friends and colleagues are also left-leaning, and at the very worst I'd say he has a broad dichotomy of viewpoints making up his daily discourse.

We then compare that to THIS statement:
gangrenous wrote:Because the impact of the right wing media, particularly the hyper-partisan built on Bull or half truths, seems pretty clear to me in people I talk to.
Seems to me there's one of us living in an echo chamber here... and it ain't TR, Botman or myself.
I can confirm that the very substantial majority of friends and associates are far more inclined to barricade storming whack job leftists than anything. When I think of my extended family, I doubt there is even one that has ever voted LNP.

Sorry, but you missed on that swing, Gangrenous.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by T_R »

The Nickman wrote: March 4, 2021, 12:44 pm
Dr Zaius wrote: March 4, 2021, 12:34 pm
The Nickman wrote:Actually... the more I review gangrenous' post, the more I realise it simply HAS to be an elaborate dubby-trap... we're dubbying aren't we?
You got us!! Fairgoitall!!
He's been playing the long game old friend Image
Honestly, it's embarrassing for guys like myself and Botman, given our relative experience, to stumble so blindly into such an obvious dubby trap.

gangrenous must be laughing all the way to the bank here.
Seems unlikely. He's a VERY earnest chap.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by The Nickman »

T_R wrote: March 4, 2021, 1:02 pm
The Nickman wrote: March 4, 2021, 12:01 pm The fact that gangrenous accuses the three of us as only being in "circles" of right wing people is laughable at best. I have a wide range of political friends in my facebook feed, and I'd have to say the left-leaning ones dominate most discussions that I see, and I have to say are often the opinions I respect the most. I've also gone as far as to Unfollow many of the more "radical" right-wing friends, as some of their viewpoints and opinions on the world are quite disgusting.

And Botman has also claimed that the majority of his friends are left-leaning, and considering I roll with him in some of the same circles, I can 100% attest to that statement. In groups that we both frequent, there's not a lot of right-wing saber rattling and there's a LOT of the anti-Morrison, anti-Murdoch hand-wringing that we see in this very thread.

TR runs an international language school, so just hazarding a guess, I'd say the majority of his friends and colleagues are also left-leaning, and at the very worst I'd say he has a broad dichotomy of viewpoints making up his daily discourse.

We then compare that to THIS statement:
gangrenous wrote:Because the impact of the right wing media, particularly the hyper-partisan built on Bull or half truths, seems pretty clear to me in people I talk to.
Seems to me there's one of us living in an echo chamber here... and it ain't TR, Botman or myself.
I can confirm that the very substantial majority of friends and associates are far more inclined to barricade storming whack job leftists than anything. When I think of my extended family, I doubt there is even one that has ever voted LNP.

Sorry, but you missed on that swing, Gangrenous.
It was a HUGE miss too... essentially his post translated to "top marks to everyone I agree with here, the other three guys all obviously live in a right-wing echo chamber because everyone I know agrees with me"

Like I said, just incredible stuff
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by T_R »

The Nickman wrote: March 4, 2021, 1:14 pm
It was a HUGE miss too... essentially his post translated to "top marks to everyone I agree with here, the other three guys all obviously live in a right-wing echo chamber because everyone I know agrees with me"

Like I said, just incredible stuff
:lol:
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by T_R »

gangrenous wrote: March 4, 2021, 7:22 am
Because I feel very confident to say that this would not have been reported and softly critiqued as took place in our timeline. I believe the media would have seized the opportunity and attacked relentlessly on this for months. There would have been endless articles on the debt and deficit catastrophe, how the ALP were pissing money into the wind just as they had in the GFC, how so many people were demotivated to look for work due to the ridiculous welfare state. I think there would have been huge pressure to drop the payments and open up the economy, and that would have fuelled that sentiment in society to the point where taking the UK/US route would have been the prevailing “wisdom”.

That’s a problem.
Outside the US (which I think we can all agree is an outlier on any scale of partisanship), that has not been the experience at all. In general terms, COVID relief packages have had broadly bipartisan approval across most of the Western world. I don't think there's any evidence at all to suggest that Australia would have been different.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Northern Raider »

I only talk to myself about politics and find a point of agreement about 50% of the time.
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by The Nickman »

Like I said earlier, most of the people I've unfollowed are right-wing, as some of the more extreme rubbish and conspiracy theories really get my goat. I blame Facebook as much as I blame anyone though, and I've been saying for a decade to anyone who would listen to me that social media's "fake news" would be seriously detrimental to our society and we see that now with anti-vaxxers causing children to die in Samoa, the Christchurch massacre and the Capitol riot as some of the most extreme examples.

Some of my left-wing friends can get a little tedious too, the whole "Durrrrr, everything coalition does bad, everything labor does good" line really does nobody any justice. Learn that there's shades of grey in everything in life.
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greeneyed
Don Furner
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by greeneyed »

Getting back to the point gangrenous was making... I think it is quite a reasonable concern... seeing mainstream news outlets changing in character, the way they are... particularly given the monopolies and oligopolies in the news media.

News Limited is at the forefront of the changes. Print media in Australia has for many years had conservative (News) and liberal (Fairfax) outlets. The take over of Fairfax by Nine Media has probably eliminated any "liberal" print outlets. News Limited's formula, embodied by Fox News, has seen its outlets become even more dominated by "opinion" and aggressive in news slant. Once, there were journalistic standards, even at the Murdoch press. Facts used to be facts. Those days are gone, and the pendulum is now shifting even further. We've seen Murdoch shift what was essentially a fairly balanced news channel in Sky News, to something approximating Fox News. These days, "opinion" is licence to sell downright inaccurate material - they're not journalists, they're people with an opinion. They don't have to follow normal journalistic standards, we're told.

It is a worrying development, and I for one, am very concerned we're just seeing the start of it in Australia... you just have to look at what's happening in the US media to see where we're headed. It is not good for democracy.
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Botman
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Botman »

And let’s always circle back to Gangers other main point
Which is the reason ALP struggle to get a message out is not because they have largely ineffective and uninspiring politicians, but rather because 60k of LNP voters watch Sky News and some old racist **** has a stranglehold on a rapidly dying media format, and he and all his buddies completely agree on that and anyone who doesn’t is in a echo chamber and should be ignored
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;
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gangrenous
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The Politics Thread 2021

Post by gangrenous »

Oh dear, what is that? Ten posts of complete circle-jerk from the three of you before anyone vaguely engaged with what I actually said.

Read it again. I did not accuse you of being in right-wing echo chambers. Pretty much the opposite, I accused you of rolling in circles where you’re not commonly interacting with people whose ideas and votes are being impacted by the skewed media.

It wasn’t simply a case of me picking the people who agreed with me. The argument of you three is based on the influence of media pretty much being non-existent. You had three out of four of those who agreed with me (who importantly are not degenerate regulars like us in this thread) who were moved to comment that in fact they do see this happening in their daily life. That is significantly more of a challenge to your argument on absence, than your assertions it doesn’t exist is to mine.

Effectively I said “there are black swans”, you three said “there are no black swans”, then three people popped in and said “well actually I see black swans”. It’s not so much picking sides at that point as you guys needing to change your argument to be “there aren’t many black swans” or accusing the three posters of being liars or completely mistaken.
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T_R
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by T_R »

gangrenous wrote: March 4, 2021, 6:47 pm Oh dear, what is that? Ten posts of complete circle-jerk from the three of you before anyone vaguely engaged with what I actually said.

Read it again. I did not accuse you of being in right-wing echo chambers. Pretty much the opposite, I accused you of rolling in circles where you’re not commonly interacting with people whose ideas and votes are being impacted by the skewed media.

It wasn’t simply a case of me picking the people who agreed with me. The argument of you three is based on the influence of media pretty much being non-existent. You had three out of four of those who agreed with me (who importantly are not degenerate regulars like us in this thread) who were moved to comment that in fact they do see this happening in their daily life. That is significantly more of a challenge to your argument on absence, than your assertions it doesn’t exist is to mine.

Effectively I said “there are black swans”, you three said “there are no black swans”, then three people popped in and said “well actually I see black swans”. It’s not so much picking sides at that point as you guys needing to change your argument to be “there aren’t many black swans” or accusing the three posters of being liars or completely mistaken.
No, that's what you chose to take in from what I wrote.

Which kind of makes my point.

In this day and age, people choose the media that reinforces their own views. As GE has said above, that's bloody alarming - the idea that any media outlet being inherently skewed to one side over the other is repugnant. But, that's the deal. I don't believe that people are particularly influenced by media as they tend not to consume media that they do not agree with. Of course there is some influence. I'm just saying that the impact is exaggerated - and, getting back to the original point before you got all over-excited, that it suits the purposes of the Labor party and its supporters to blame that impact rather than engaging in a little healthy self analysis.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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gangrenous
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The Politics Thread 2021

Post by gangrenous »

That’s fine, I disagree (and for the record I understood completely your argument and stand by what I wrote). I think there are many people who don’t actively cultivate their news, and they are getting targeted by these, generally right wing oriented, news sources. It is influencing what they believe and their votes.

You overly read into my posts a concern for Labor.
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T_R
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by T_R »

gangrenous wrote: March 4, 2021, 7:33 pm That’s fine, I disagree (and for the record I understood completely your argument and stand by what I wrote). I think there are many people who don’t actively cultivate their news, and they are getting targeted by these, generally right wing oriented, news sources. It is influencing what they believe and their votes.

You overly read into my posts a concern for Labor.
To be very honest, what I read into your post was a kind of supercilious sneering - " Look at all those uneducated sheep...voting however the headline in the Daily Telegraph tells them". Personally, I think the electorate generally gets it right in Australia, even when I don't necessarily agree with the result.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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greeneyed
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by greeneyed »

I'm not pushing one side of politics or other in this.

But I am very concerned about the way the mainstream media is developing, because it is now Balkanising our societies, rather than unifying them with a common understanding of some basic facts.

As we have seen in the United States, it is a real problem when some media outlets spread what every reputable authority tells us is false: that the Presidential election was "stolen" from the loser, because of election fraud.

That's an obvious one, cut and dried, surely... but a huge portion of the US population seems to believe it. Polls tell us they do. And it is now being used as an excuse for voter suppression laws. Laws that make it harder for people to vote. The consequences are huge. And for those people saying the "mainstream" media is not influential in spreading this lie, how do you explain that?

What about something less obvious... like climate change and bushfires? We saw what News Limited did last year at this time. They undermine science and facts. It is a confluence of interests between certain politicians and "mainstream" media, that is incredibly influential.

The idea that mainstream media no longer matters because of competition from social media doesn't really hold up, when you look at what is pushed by the mainstream media, and the views that society holds. Just look at the USA and "fraud" in the Presidential election... and what the polls tell us that people believe. They are powerful media conglomerates, that hold monopoly and oligopoly power over information.

It is complicated, as politicians like Trump showed how they can spread lies themselves via social media. He became the competition for mainstream media outlets that told the truth about issues. But Trump was backed by other significant mainstream media outlets in spreading the lies.
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gangrenous
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by gangrenous »

Did the electorate get it right almost returning Trump?

Did the electorate get it right voting in Brexit do you think?

Were those well weighed decisions based in fact in your opinion? In my opinion we do have a growing number of people unwittingly being influenced by bad information that they’re not trained to assess critically.

You can characterise my view as sneering and arrogant. I’d say that’s pretty fair. I’m a pretentious jerk.

Not necessarily a wrong jerk though...
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gangrenous
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The Politics Thread 2021

Post by gangrenous »

greeneyed as usual. On the money.

And he’s not a jerk, so it’s easier to hear from him too.
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T_R
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by T_R »

Yep, and Trump supporters generally consume very little to the left of Fox, and are drifting even further into on demand news such as OAN, since many reportedly consider Fox to be too liberal.

I seriously doubt many votes are flipped. People leaning left consume very little Fox. People leaning right are unlikely to have much time for the NYT.

The fact that there are media outlets catering for political bias is fairly revolting, but it's here to stay.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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T_R
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by T_R »

gangrenous wrote:Did the electorate get it right almost returning Trump?

Did the electorate get it right voting in Brexit do you think?

Were those well weighed decisions based in fact in your opinion? In my opinion we do have a growing number of people unwittingly being influenced by bad information that they’re not trained to assess critically.

You can characterise my view as sneering and arrogant. I’d say that’s pretty fair. I’m a pretentious jerk.

Not necessarily a wrong jerk though...
Australia didn't get to vote on those, gangrenous. You need to get on top of the basics here, mate.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

Image

Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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gangrenous
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The Politics Thread 2021

Post by gangrenous »

T_R wrote:Yep, and Trump supporters generally consume very little to the left of Fox, and are drifting even further into on demand news such as OAN, since many reportedly consider Fox to be too liberal.

I seriously doubt many votes are flipped. People leaning left consume very little Fox. People leaning right are unlikely to have much time for the NYT.

The fact that there are media outlets catering for political bias is fairly revolting, but it's here to stay.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
So how does your view of the world explain the USA going from electing Obama, to nearly re-electing Donald Trump after he effectively killed hundreds of thousands of people?

I’m clearly using the US and UK as more advanced and clear cut versions of the phenomenon. You don’t have to be a dick about it when you know well why I’m doing it.
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Botman
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Re: The Politics Thread 2021

Post by Botman »

gangrenous wrote: March 4, 2021, 6:47 pm Oh dear, what is that? Ten posts of complete circle-jerk from the three of you before anyone vaguely engaged with what I actually said.
Pretty rare to get a revealing moment like that, Gangers.
In attempting to label some posters, you managed to dob yourself in.
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;
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