Health and fitness
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- Albi
- David Furner
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Health and fitness
I'm with GB. There's no evidence in the literature that confirms pre workout supplements improve anything other then the bottom line of the guy who sold them to you... Save your money
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- Raidersrawesome
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Re: Health and fitness
The book Ive read suggest eating Pre Workout 15min to 75min before activity. Its not fuel for your workout. To eat something digestible and palatable , focus on protein and fat and avoid lots of fruit or carb dense vegetables.
Post workout meal is designed to start your recovery process faster and more effectively. Your to eat it within 15min to 30min after the workout. Protein and carbohydrate in the form of starchy vegetables.
Personally I dont eat if I train in the am ( which I mostly do ) because Im running to the dunny 20min into it.
Ive just started eating a meal straight after training.
Post workout meal is designed to start your recovery process faster and more effectively. Your to eat it within 15min to 30min after the workout. Protein and carbohydrate in the form of starchy vegetables.
Personally I dont eat if I train in the am ( which I mostly do ) because Im running to the dunny 20min into it.
Ive just started eating a meal straight after training.
Re: Health and fitness
There is good evidence that eating a meal within a half hour afterwards aides in muscle recovery.
- freddo
- John Ferguson
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Re: Health and fitness
Oh yes pleaseGreenbits wrote:I'll sell you some placebo. $50. Will turn you into a hulk.yeh raiders wrote:^ sure are.. placebo's a good thing though. Speaking from experience and being a skeptic on a lot of these products, Creatine 100% works. The scales went up within a week of loading it (it's just water retention in the muscles) and i got noticeably a lot stronger on my compound lifts. In terms of aiding recovery for me, i couldnt answer that.
BCAA's - some swear by them, some think it's complete bs. I tried a preworkout for a few weeks which had BCAA's in it. Honestly, i just couldnt tell either way if it worked to aid recovery any quicker. Since I'm never training to compete or a pro athlete, basically they're useless to me. For someone who cant stomach protein supplements, maybe they're a decent alternative post workout.
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- freddo
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Re: Health and fitness
I recently got, The Truth About Six Pack Abs, The Fat Burning FURNANCE, Kyle Leons Muscle Maximizer and Mike Changs six pack shortcuts.
All these books are a great read and very informative.
Strangely they all suggest almost the same key things.
Funny how that works right?
All these books are a great read and very informative.
Strangely they all suggest almost the same key things.
Funny how that works right?
Truth Beauty and The Freddo Way
- dubby
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Re: Health and fitness
Albi wrote:I'm with GB. There's no evidence in the literature that confirms pre workout supplements improve anything other then the bottom line of the guy who sold them to you... Save your money
Craze works.
These products depend on your intensity and desired result. Some are sugar drinks I agree. Others do work.
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
- dubby
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Re: Health and fitness
No offence GB, but I swear by creatine. Bcaa helps my recovery as well.
Each body is different I guess, but results speak for themselves. While I an in early days and pose no serious results, precedent allows me to say that supplements do work. What is best though is a good diet, any gym freak will tell you that. Supplements are just that.
Each body is different I guess, but results speak for themselves. While I an in early days and pose no serious results, precedent allows me to say that supplements do work. What is best though is a good diet, any gym freak will tell you that. Supplements are just that.
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
Re: Health and fitness
I don't actually agree with you dismissing TMA but I'd be interested in hearing about your experience in coaching. You can PM me if you like?Green eyed Mick wrote:Having never been 'depressed' I wouldn't know. But I find if I go more than a few weeks without exercise I notice a change in my mood. When I had repeated down time for ankle surgery and a few years back a broken foot and 2 broken toes I was acutely aware that I felt far less like myself than I usually do.Albi wrote:I can confirm without doubt people suffering from depression improve noticeably by exercising. Exercise is a subjective term, and for a chronically depressed person, walking slowly around the block may be their limit. Regardless, the results are obvious.
FTR being a former boxing and MMA coach. I would strongly recommend combat sports (not traditional martial arts) as part of an exercise regime. Especially for address stress, depression or anxiety along with fitness and weight loss.
IMO No other form of exercise I have experienced will give you a bigger boost of endorphins than sparring or rolling. Competition is of course a different animal but BJJ (grappling), Boxing and MMA are low impact (knee, ankles, compared to running and IMO a pretty good alternative for people who find gym work tedious and team sports inconvenient.
Shoving it in your face since 2017
Re: Health and fitness
None taken. As I said, there is some weak evidence for BCAA's, better than most of the stuff sold in Nutrition shops.dubby wrote:No offence GB, but I swear by creatine. Bcaa helps my recovery as well.
Each body is different I guess, but results speak for themselves. While I an in early days and pose no serious results, precedent allows me to say that supplements do work. What is best though is a good diet, any gym freak will tell you that. Supplements are just that.
Multiple anecdotes don't make data.
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Re: Health and fitness
Just kick the footy around with the dog every arvo mate, when you get home cook up some pasta. Mow the lawn on the weekend. Have some bacon and eggs on Saturday and a smoothie on Sunday.dubby wrote:No offence GB, but I swear by creatine. Bcaa helps my recovery as well.
Each body is different I guess, but results speak for themselves. While I an in early days and pose no serious results, precedent allows me to say that supplements do work. What is best though is a good diet, any gym freak will tell you that. Supplements are just that.
and inject steroids on Tuesday.
Last edited by Begbie on September 30, 2012, 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- freddo
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Re: Health and fitness
So for the non craze people, Have you guys tried just straight black coffee
Truth Beauty and The Freddo Way
Health and fitness
I've found BCAA's to work wonders for my recovery - I have no soreness the next day. I also swear by Craze, can't train without it. Creatine IMO makes such a small difference it's not worth it. Salmon oil capsules are also very important for your joints if you're lifting heavy.
- dubby
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Re: Health and fitness
Dude, I just said it works. Just because I didn't go to a lab and have myself analyzed doesn't prove otherwise.Greenbits wrote:None taken. As I said, there is some weak evidence for BCAA's, better than most of the stuff sold in Nutrition shops.dubby wrote:No offence GB, but I swear by creatine. Bcaa helps my recovery as well.
Each body is different I guess, but results speak for themselves. While I an in early days and pose no serious results, precedent allows me to say that supplements do work. What is best though is a good diet, any gym freak will tell you that. Supplements are just that.
Multiple anecdotes don't make data.
I find it hard to see how you could test for recovery other than asking "are you sore today? More sore than without BCAA?"
Same with creatine. I find it helps me go longer in the workout and because I can train longer I get improved results. Ditto Craze. That stuff is more of a mental reaction which helps you train better.
I guess you could liken Craze to alcohol in that sense; it makes youfeel tougher than you really are!
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
Re: Health and fitness
They have done the studies Dubby.
- dubby
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Re: Health and fitness
"They"Greenbits wrote:They have done the studies Dubby.
Dude, I use the stuff. (Craze, BCAA, creatine) and I firmly believe results vary from person to person and each result may vary.
However, There are products on the market that don't really do squat. I was taking Tribulus for a while and it didn't do jack all for me, yet for a woman it may have a different reaction. Same with oestrogen blockers in men.
The only way to accurately report on supplements IMO is to compare a like for like person.......and they don't exist as our DNA (genetics), age, lifestyle and diet influence our results moreso than supplements alone.
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
Re: Health and fitness
There is a whole field of sports science research that looks into this area Dubby. No doubt they have a clue what they are on about.
Re: Health and fitness
I could claim that covering myself in mud and howling at the full moon protects me from HIV. The fact that I don't have HIV is proof!
Re: Health and fitness
Didn't people swear by those bracelets not too long ago
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
- Raidersrawesome
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Re: Health and fitness
Still wear my EFX sports bandmanbush wrote:Didn't people swear by those bracelets not too long ago
Re: Health and fitness
Oh dear, you're a lost causeRaidersrawesome wrote:Still wear my EFX sports bandmanbush wrote:Didn't people swear by those bracelets not too long ago
Re: Health and fitness
As someone who doesn't put much emphasis on fitness advice from me is pretty meaningless, but just do what works for you whether it's proven or just a placebo affect, as someone who doesn't eat till around 10:30am I tend to just grab a protein milk before and after the gym before work, does it help who knows but it at least puts something in my stomach before exercising.
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
- dubby
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Re: Health and fitness
My point is there is a field that also "proves" this stuff works.Greenbits wrote:There is a whole field of sports science research that looks into this area Dubby. No doubt they have a clue what they are on about.
Let me give you a bit of history.
In 1997 I was 22 and weighed about 77kg. I'm 6'1".
I started going to the gym and the guy encouraged me to take protein powder and creatine. So, every day for about a year I took protein shake with creatine in the morning along with about 6-8 Weetbix. Lunch was always ham/chicken/silverside with salad, then it was a creatine drink before the gym, tea (usually meat with veggies) and then a protein shake.
I went from 77kg to about 95kg in less than a year. That is a massive change in body type and shape, and as you can tell from my diet I wasnt eating heaps, and I was a lean muscle, not fat. The gym owner wished he had taken a before shot and after shot to display in the gym my transformation was that radical.
You cannot tell me that supplements did not play a part.
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
- Raidersrawesome
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Re: Health and fitness
I was before wearing the bandGreenbits wrote:Oh dear, you're a lost causeRaidersrawesome wrote:Still wear my EFX sports bandmanbush wrote:Didn't people swear by those bracelets not too long ago
for the record I only wear it as a fashion accessory, I dont believe in any of the sh*t that goes with it. Then again I havent fallen over
Re: Health and fitness
You can't tell me it did, that's the point. You may well have gotten huge without them, you were working out after all. That's why we have science, not just a lot of random people sharing their opinions and anecdotes.
- dubby
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Re: Health and fitness
Which supplement are you referring to actually?
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
- dubby
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Re: Health and fitness
This site will give you the science you believe does not exist when it comes to creatine:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/layne13.htm
How Does it Work?
After creatine enters the body (or after it is produced by the body) it firsts binds with a phosphate molecule to form Creatine phosphate. Now here is where I'm going to lay a bit of biochemistry on you so I'll do my best to keep it simple. ATP (Adenine Tri-Phosphate) IS the body's energy source. When your body oxidizes carbs, protein, or fat it is doing this process in order to produce ATP. ATP is responsible for driving almost every body process there is. Hell ATP is even involved in creating ATP. ATP works like this... Energy is needed to drive bodily process. ATP provides this energy by hydrolyzing a phosphate group.
When a phosphate group is hydrolyzed, energy in the form of heat is given off and this energy is used to drive whatever process is being performed, for example muscle contraction. Because one phosphate has been lost from the ATP it is now called ADP (adenine Di-phosphate). The reaction is as follows ATP (hydrolysis)=ADP + Energy. Now you have free ADP as a product from the ATP hydrolysis. ADP is pretty much useless in the body unless it is converted back into ATP. Now this is where creatine comes into play. The phosphate bound creatine donates it's phosphate group to the ADP to re-form ATP! I assume you see where this is going now. By allowing you to return ADP to ATP creatine will increase your ATP stores, thus allowing you to train harder and longer.Creatine is a combination of three different amino acids, glycine, arginine, and methionine.
Another benefit of creatine is that creatine itself is a fuel source. In fact your body's first choice of energy when performing anaerobic activity (such as weightlifting) is your creatine phosphate stores. By supplementing with creatine phosphate you will increase these stores, thus giving you more energy for your workouts. There is another anabolic property that creatine holds and this is it's ability to hydrate muscle cells.1 When muscle cells are hydrated a few things happen. The most notable being an increase in protein synthesis. The second being an increase of ions into the cell. Since the cell is holding more water, it can also hold more ions since the ions will follow water into the cell in order to keep the concentration the same. When more ions are present in muscle cells (the most important being nitrogen) muscle protein synthesis also increases.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/layne13.htm
How Does it Work?
After creatine enters the body (or after it is produced by the body) it firsts binds with a phosphate molecule to form Creatine phosphate. Now here is where I'm going to lay a bit of biochemistry on you so I'll do my best to keep it simple. ATP (Adenine Tri-Phosphate) IS the body's energy source. When your body oxidizes carbs, protein, or fat it is doing this process in order to produce ATP. ATP is responsible for driving almost every body process there is. Hell ATP is even involved in creating ATP. ATP works like this... Energy is needed to drive bodily process. ATP provides this energy by hydrolyzing a phosphate group.
When a phosphate group is hydrolyzed, energy in the form of heat is given off and this energy is used to drive whatever process is being performed, for example muscle contraction. Because one phosphate has been lost from the ATP it is now called ADP (adenine Di-phosphate). The reaction is as follows ATP (hydrolysis)=ADP + Energy. Now you have free ADP as a product from the ATP hydrolysis. ADP is pretty much useless in the body unless it is converted back into ATP. Now this is where creatine comes into play. The phosphate bound creatine donates it's phosphate group to the ADP to re-form ATP! I assume you see where this is going now. By allowing you to return ADP to ATP creatine will increase your ATP stores, thus allowing you to train harder and longer.Creatine is a combination of three different amino acids, glycine, arginine, and methionine.
Another benefit of creatine is that creatine itself is a fuel source. In fact your body's first choice of energy when performing anaerobic activity (such as weightlifting) is your creatine phosphate stores. By supplementing with creatine phosphate you will increase these stores, thus giving you more energy for your workouts. There is another anabolic property that creatine holds and this is it's ability to hydrate muscle cells.1 When muscle cells are hydrated a few things happen. The most notable being an increase in protein synthesis. The second being an increase of ions into the cell. Since the cell is holding more water, it can also hold more ions since the ions will follow water into the cell in order to keep the concentration the same. When more ions are present in muscle cells (the most important being nitrogen) muscle protein synthesis also increases.
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
- dubby
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Re: Health and fitness
Another:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12352292
(This site does not offer any info on how the research was done as far as I could see, but their conclusion is alarming)
excerpt from this site:
STUDY:
We reviewed the available studies, including case reports, and researched data on five of the most popular performance-enhancing supplements, including androstenedione, creatine, chromium, ephedra, and protein and amino acid supplements.
CONCLUSIONS:
Of the reviewed supplements, only creatine may be marginally beneficial. The potential benefit would probably only be useful to the professional athlete and not the average person. All of the supplements reviewed have potentially harmful side effects; however, certain supplements clearly show harmful effects, and use should strongly be cautioned. In addition, ephedra should be withdrawn from the marketplace. At this time, without better-designed studies, these agents cannot be recommended.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12352292
(This site does not offer any info on how the research was done as far as I could see, but their conclusion is alarming)
excerpt from this site:
STUDY:
We reviewed the available studies, including case reports, and researched data on five of the most popular performance-enhancing supplements, including androstenedione, creatine, chromium, ephedra, and protein and amino acid supplements.
CONCLUSIONS:
Of the reviewed supplements, only creatine may be marginally beneficial. The potential benefit would probably only be useful to the professional athlete and not the average person. All of the supplements reviewed have potentially harmful side effects; however, certain supplements clearly show harmful effects, and use should strongly be cautioned. In addition, ephedra should be withdrawn from the marketplace. At this time, without better-designed studies, these agents cannot be recommended.
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
- dubby
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Re: Health and fitness
This is a site that supports your argument, but I note the supplements they refer to I don't use (HGH, DHEA, roids etc).
http://www.livestrong.com/article/22863 ... pplements/
Its interesting their take on creatine. It is recommended to go off all supplements after a while if you read the label or talk to the bodybuilders. The serious guys I think are nuts. I could not put that gear in my body. I use BCAA to help recover, take protein for the same reason and to promote growth while I am experimenting with Craze to see if it helps me train better/harder. I don't always take creatine, but have found it helps.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/22863 ... pplements/
Its interesting their take on creatine. It is recommended to go off all supplements after a while if you read the label or talk to the bodybuilders. The serious guys I think are nuts. I could not put that gear in my body. I use BCAA to help recover, take protein for the same reason and to promote growth while I am experimenting with Craze to see if it helps me train better/harder. I don't always take creatine, but have found it helps.
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
Re: Health and fitness
Dubs, go back and read my original post. I said that creatine and BCAA are the only two supplements that have evidence for them, not great evidence, but evidence nonetheless. There is also good evidence that a bit of carbs and protein post-workout is also beneficial, but its not a huge amount, I think about 20-25g and 15g respectively. You don't need supplements to get that sort of nutrition. Despite all the outlandish claims for supplements other than BCAA and creatine, none of them have a skeric of evidence. They have either not been used in a controlled trial, or failed to show any benefit in a controlled trial. My point has been that individual anecdotes of "it works/ed for me" are meaningless. It may have infact been the supplement but it equally may have been placebo, something else that you were doing at the time or you might have got the same results regardless. The point is I could given you some tablets filled with sawdust and charged you $50 for them and you may have got the same results and raved about them.
BTW there is evidence that the more expensive the placebo, the greater the placebo effect, so be sure to pick an expensive supplement
BTW there is evidence that the more expensive the placebo, the greater the placebo effect, so be sure to pick an expensive supplement
- dubby
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Re: Health and fitness
Yeah I know mate, I just thought it was interesting reading.
Ask I can do is go off my great for a while and see if I notice a difference. Mental motivation is the key to training hard and eating right which is how anyone gets good results.
Ask I can do is go off my great for a while and see if I notice a difference. Mental motivation is the key to training hard and eating right which is how anyone gets good results.
The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
Re: Health and fitness
I read a good review article on it all a while back. I'll post a link if I can find it.
Re: Health and fitness
So Dubbs should I stir you up and say you don't understand the research you posted
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
Re: Health and fitness
Can anybody recommend a heart rate monitor watch?
Shoving it in your face since 2017
- yeh raiders
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Re: Health and fitness
I bought a Garmin GPS watch, without the heart rate option.. From http://www.cycleogical-online.com.au
I didn't get the heart rate monitor, because knowing my max heart rate is about 200, I didn't want it weighing on my mind during intense exercise lol
I didn't get the heart rate monitor, because knowing my max heart rate is about 200, I didn't want it weighing on my mind during intense exercise lol
- Raidersrawesome
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Re: Health and fitness
I have a Polar FT 4 , I cant fault it.