Depression and mental health

[Green eyed Mick]

IMO SSRI's are over prescribed and largely ineffective for a significant amount of people that are prescribed them.

This is a great site for looking at different treatments. http://www.dailystrength.org/treatments

[Albi]

Absolutely agree that people need to be prepared to engage with the process Albi, without that they won't get anywhere. The old joke is how many psychologists does it take to change a light bulb? One, but only if it really wants to change.

That aside there is always the opportunity for personality clashes or adherence to techniques that don't mesh well with an individual. For example in relation to trauma some people believe that it must be discussed openly before it can be dealt with where other people believe that it is not necessary to revisit trauma to heal from it.

If you don't want to talk about an experience but are constantly pushed to by your therapist then it is unlikely the relationship will work out and it's best to move on.

Looking forward to the patenting post Albi, very interested to hear your perspective.

What was the suicide prevention course you were running? I am a living works trainer and think it is a brilliant course.

A few Psychologists including Scott Miller have done considerable researach into what factors are at play during a successful counselling session. It turns out that the fancy letters after my name account for only a small percetage of improvment with the major factor being the quality of the therapist/client relationship. As you would imagine, psychologists with big fragile egos where confronted by such a ludicrous suggestion

I'm a Livingworks Trainer too. I did ASIST last weekend and have another one booked in for this weekend. I also run regular safetalks and have several booked over the next month or two. They've just completely revamped ASIST too.

[pickles]

I think ASIST is a fantastic course. I had been working in mental health for years before I did it myself and wish it had been the first 2 days of training I'd done. Sadly since moving down the coast I haven't managed to link in with another trainer so am a bit out of the loop.

I also run mental health first aid and the youth version which I think is a great introduction to mental health for the general public. Sadly these are an adjunct to my main role, I would love to be able to train for a living but its not reliable enough.

[Pilz]

Finding a good counsellor, psychologist or any other mental health professional is no different to finding a good mechanic, plumber etc.

You talk to people you know about who they know that has a good reputation or pick a number out of the phone book and hope for the best. Through the program Albi is referring to you need a referral from a GP so they should have some ideas.

The reality is that if you want to get the most out of a therapeutic process you need to be able to connect with the therapist. That might mean trying a few before finding a good fit (much harder in rural/remote areas) but if you thought your mechanic was dodgy would you keep going back or try something different?

Everyone should feel entitled to sack their health care professional if they don't feel they are getting the benefit they need.

No. It is a lot different. The only similarity is that you can sack one and replace them with another, and even there it is hardly the same proposition. There is a mechanic in every suburb and whilst some have their specialties they mostly do much the same thing. The 'right' counsellor or psychiatrist is hard to identify and far less accessible.

If my mechanic breaks my car I sack him, maybe I sue him and I get a new part or even a new car - and a new mechanic. By comparison, would I even know if I'm broken and whether it was my shrink that did it? Then, they are for practical purposes immune from lawsuits in all but the most blatant circumstances - all care but no responsibility and all that, plus there's the small difficulty of where do I buy a new me?

Also, when dealing with a mechanic I will often have warranties, guarantees and insurance policies to fall back on if necessary, and if not I have at least some idea of what is a realistic outcome to expect from him in the first place plus the wherewithal to make a judgement on whether that expectation has been met. There aren't really any workable safeguards when dealing with mental health professionals. Punters (and I use that word deliberately) really do just throw themselves at their mercy.

It is a huge generalisation I know, but I put mental health professionals in the same class as lawyers and financial advisors. Good ones are rare, very valuable and should be kept if you find one. Mostly they are barely competent and some are outright dangerous - the problem being you don't find this out until after the event and have no recourse once the (often irreversible) damage is done.

[pickles]

Without knowing your personal experience this sounds like you have had a bad experience or know someone who has with a mental health professional.

Most professions are governed by bodies that uphold the professionalism or their members and takes any complaints very seriously. There are also guidelines around professional development, supervision etc.

All practitioners are required to have professional indemnity insurance to cover them if any damage is done to an individual or group and they are in no way immune from prosecution if they have done harm.

Psychiatrists are very rare, as are most specialists in medicine but most people in Australia have reasonable access to a number of psychologists in their local area.

Counsellors are a different story as they have no professional body and basically anyone can claim to be a counsellor so in that case it is very important to check credentials.

Maybe it was flippant to compare mental health professionals with mechanics but I also believe that people need to know that they have choice in who they see and can choose not to receive care from someone they are unhappy with in any way.

[Manbush]

I've always appreciated Dr Dennis Learys approach

" "I'm just not happy. I'm just not happy. I'm just not happy because my life didn't turn out the way I thought it would." Hey! Join the **** club, ok!? I thought I was going to be the starting center fielder for the Boston Red Socks. Life sucks, get a **** helmet, allright?! "I'm not happy. I'm not happy." Nobody's happy, ok!? Happiness comes in small doses folks. It's a cigarette, or a chocolate cookie, or a five second orgasm. That's it, ok! You cum, you eat the cookie, you smoke the butt, you go to sleep, you get up in the morning and go to **** work, ok!? That is it! End of **** list! "I'm just not happy." Shut the **** up, allright? That's the name of my new book, "Shut the **** Up, by Doctor Denis Leary. A revolutionary new form of therapy." I'm gonna have my patients come in. "Doctor, I.." "Shut the **** up, next!" "I don't feel so.." "Shut the **** up, next!" "He made me feel so much better about myself, you know? He just told me to shut the **** up and nobody had ever told me that before. I feel so much better now." Whining **** maggots."

[Pilz]

I've taken this too far already, but, in for a penny....

Without knowing your personal experience this sounds like you have had a bad experience or know someone who has with a mental health professional.

Two cases. One severe and one EXTREME bad experience, and with not one, but a whole series of mental health practitioners, including some recommended and apparently well credentialled ones. These were a while ago now, so, forgiven but not forgotten.

Most professions are governed by bodies that uphold the professionalism or their members and takes any complaints very seriously. There are also guidelines around professional development, supervision etc.

I'll take your word for it, but I'll take it with a grain of salt. I've worked in an industry peak body and our focus was almost entirely on protecting and advocating for our membership.

All practitioners are required to have professional indemnity insurance to cover them if any damage is done to an individual or group.

This is nothing special. All tradesmen, indeed almost all businesses are required to have professional indemnity insurance. I was more talking about insurance that I can hold.

...and they are in no way immune from prosecution if they have done harm.

In theory, yes, they are liable for the damage they do. The almost insurmountable problem is that it is hard to prove harm was done that wasn't going to happen anyway, and even harder to prove who did it. I'll stick by my assertion that for practical purposes mental health professionals are immune from prosecution in all but the most blatant circumstances.

Psychiatrists are very rare, as are most specialists in medicine but most people in Australia have reasonable access to a number of psychologists in their local area.

Yup. As usual I've confuddled iatrists and ologists. My error. Sorry.

Counsellors are a different story as they have no professional body and basically anyone can claim to be a counsellor so in that case it is very important to check credentials.

Credentials, schmedentials. I wouldn't be alone in caring more about results - which ties back to the comparison with lawyers and financial advisors.

Maybe it was flippant to compare mental health professionals with mechanics but I also believe that people need to know that they have choice in who they see and can choose not to receive care from someone they are unhappy with in any way.

OK.

[bonehead]

Bump

90% of the bodies serotonin is in the intestines! Yikes!

I have, as of today, gone gluten and dairy free as much as I can.

Have had a few symptoms return, linked to my recent employment disaster

[Dr Zaius]

A diet devoid of both gluten and dairy would depress the hell out of me

[bonehead]

100% of my diet contained gluten or dairy GB, nothing better than a dare double espresso and a pie for brekky :-(

[Dr Zaius]

there is such a thing as balance LW!

[Aero]

what exactly is this gluten thing people keep avoiding?

[Dr Zaius]

Gluten is a protein in grains: wheat, barley, rye etc. It's in a ridiculous amount of food. Some people have a genuine medically diagnosed allergy to it called coeliac disease. The rest have been to a naturopath or other such quack who, on the basis of a disturbance in their midiclorians or other such bull ****, have told the gullible individual that they are "allergic" or "intolerant" to gluten and a half dozen or so other common food entities, leaving the poor fool on a diet of mung beans and saw dust.

[Shadow Boxer]

Lol, it's funny coz it's true....

[bonehead]

Or they've had the intolerance test ;-)

[Dr Zaius]

My ramblings weren't really having a go at you LW, just elaborating at the gluten thing "that people keep avoiding"

Which intolerance test did you have?

[Shadow Boxer]

No me either LW, my best mate has coeliac disease, you wouldn't wish that diet on your worst enemy.

As gb said there are a lot of quacks out there diagnosing gluten sensitivity with no real scientific basis.

[bonehead]

Didn't take it that way :-)

My daughter was having all sorts of gastro issues and the specialist eventually had some massive intolerance test done on hair and blood samples for 600 odd foods and products, after the amazing results from her I had the same done. A few of note for my daughter were gluten/wheat, dairy, red flesh fish(about 5 named is a fair clue), lamb. Mine were a bit more ambiguous and didn't pay much attention.
My decision to reduce gluten in particular is probably more related to processed foods, seeing the effect on both my kids when they've had a bit more than usual processed/gluten contained foods their behaviour and sleep is quite poor.

[Dr Zaius]

I think you may have stumbled across one of the quacks of which I speak

[craigo]

The best test for coeliac disease is a biopsy isn't it?

[bonehead]

The changes in my daughter were incredible, she was on 20mg of loser a day, she had fallen off the growth chart completely, wasn't sleeping etc. the past 6 months she has got back on the chart to the below avg line with a continuation of current growth she will be back to avg range by the middle of the year.

[Dr Zaius]

Bloods and then confirmed on biopsy Craigo.

I don' recall anything about being able to diagnose food allergies/intolerances on hair samples on the study list for the physician's exams. It sounds like a very naturopathic thing to do. Tell me, what sort of "specialist" was this person and how did your daughter come to see them?

[Aero]

Ahh thanks for the heads up GB.. and damn LW, sorry to hear about your daughter's issues

[bonehead]

Paediatric specialist at Our local hospital GB, after repeated visits to emergency that pushed her through.
My wife dealt with most of the appointments

[Dr Zaius]

Interesting

[bonehead]

Mrs said the paediatrician put her onto a naturopath that did the intolerance tests, so many appointments.
I had my blood test at a pathology place never heard much back from my gp, he didn't really want to do it, the mrs must have taken my hair sample to the naturopath.
Sorry for any confusion, between work and sleep deprivation at the time I was lucky to know what day it was.
I had the same gp from age 3 to 30 then he retired, it's hard to find someone new who will show the dedication because of the personal relationship.

[Dr Zaius]

YOur paediatrician referred your daughter to a naturopath?

[bonehead]

Yep

[Dr Zaius]

So you saw two quacks then?

[bonehead]

Lol more than 2!!!

I couldn't care who they are anymore, results are all I care about. The best advice we got in the whole saga was from a pharmacist that had immigrated from china via NZ - he'd worked through the bird flu epidemic etc and his advice on the infant gut was great

[Dr Zaius]

Best of luck to you mate

[Green eyed Mick]

http://www.skynews.com.au/health/article.aspx?id=861401

http://www.skynews.com.au/health/article.aspx?id=861631

2 articles that seem to sum up our attitude to mental health and drugs. It is 2013 **** surely we are mature enough to start looking at alternatives.

[gong]

Been through the worst times and know first hand about this subject. Had some very good friends dump me but my family and closest friends have been there to support. Met a great psychiatrist who has supported me in my darkest times. It all started through my work and the things that I saw. No need going into it but it was things that most humans wouldn't expect to see or experience in a lifetime. Encourage all those doing it tough to seek help. There is always someone out there willing to assist.

[gerg]

Paediatric specialist at Our local hospital GB, after repeated visits to emergency that pushed her through.
My wife dealt with most of the appointments

Sounds similar to what I went through last year. 5 visits to emergency in 7 weeks countless blood tests and urine tests and then I thought I'd go see a naturopath - sure she did some whack tests but I guess I should ignore her advice and just book a weekly taxi to the emergency ward, and follow Greenbits advice and ignore her advice which has actually worked.

[The Nickman]

What sort of advice did she give you, Gerg??