Depression and mental health

[Decorous Muse]

Begbie and my old man passed away in October '94, to this day I'm thankful that he got to see Meninga lead us to Grand Final victory a month earlier.

[bonehead]

One of my closest mates was diagnosed with depression 12 months ago, he was able to get off the anti-depressant and finish up with his psychologist in January/February.
Learnt last night that he has gone back on the anti-depressant after his GP basically gave up trying to treat a chronic neck complaint and diagnosed him a codeine addict.
I'm moving house this week but going to try to find time for a quick round of golf with him Saturday then we are doing the day trip for the Raids v Knoughts next Sunday hopefully a chance to talk some crapola.

[Shezza]

Not sure if this is the right thread, but have not eaten any meat for over a week now and I feel a whole lot better all around ... plenty of energy, feeling positive etc ... have been eating the right things from a vegetarian perspective.

This was not driven by the health benefits (not here to debate that though), rather a strong passion in relation to cruelty to animals. Didn't make a conscious effort to start, just thought I'd cut back on the meat a bit and it is becoming a bit of a habit without trying.

Overall, feeling great.

[Albi]

Not sure if this is the right thread, but have not eaten any meat for over a week now and I feel a whole lot better all around ... plenty of energy, feeling positive etc ... have been eating the right things from a vegetarian perspective.

This was not driven by the health benefits (not here to debate that though), rather a strong passion in relation to cruelty to animals. Didn't make a conscious effort to start, just thought I'd cut back on the meat a bit and it is becoming a bit of a habit without trying.

Overall, feeling great.

Excellent; congratulations on making that choice... In terms of correlating red meat and mood disorders, the only research I'm aware of shows that an absence of red meat can be associated with higher reported rates of depression. Don't worry though, this is most certainly related to B vitamin deficiency and can be easily overcome with a good quality multi vitamin or B vitamin supplement. The other health benefits of your diet far out way any negatives IMO.

[Shezza]

Only problem is all the legumes!!! Hopefully my stomach settles down.

I will have a look into the B vitamin issue ... seeing as I didn't really make a conscious decision to do this full on, I haven't really done any research yet. I better do that.

[Michael]

As far as the whole vegetarian debate goes, I'm a complete hypocrite. On a moral level I believe that eating sentient beings is a monstrous practice, but I enjoy the taste of meat far too much to stop.

[Shezza]

That is me exactly Michael - other than this last week.

[bonehead]

my son now points out the car window at animals with a "oh cute..... and tasty!"

[dubby]

Not sure if this is the right thread, but have not eaten any meat for over a week now and I feel a whole lot better all around ... plenty of energy, feeling positive etc ... have been eating the right things from a vegetarian perspective.

This was not driven by the health benefits (not here to debate that though), rather a strong passion in relation to cruelty to animals. Didn't make a conscious effort to start, just thought I'd cut back on the meat a bit and it is becoming a bit of a habit without trying.

Overall, feeling great.

Do you cry when a lion eats a wilderbeast?

I love animals too mate, and detest any form of cruelty whether its towards animals or fellow man.

Just out of curiosity, have you gone the whole hog? I had a room mate once who loved animals so much he wouldn't wear wool, did not have a doona with feathers in it and ate like a bloody budgie.

[Shezza]

Regarding the wilderbeast - no. Likewise a bloke on the beach with a fishing rod catching enough for him and his family. It's the mass cultivation and slaughter, keeping animals in tiny cages, things like foie gras, fishing trawlers etc that bug me.

Being a very moderate person, I have not gone the full hog - just doing my small part. Not going to begrudge others or preach and I didn't post on here to argue the merits or convince others, just to comment on the effect on my overall well being.

Will still eat eggs etc (have always only eaten free range).

[dubby]

I agree with your first sentence. I get annoyed when people over fish and the mass cultivation and slaughter you refer to does make me feel sick in the gut. I don't know why, but it always has.

Not saying you were preaching mate, sorry if I offended you. Personally I think a balanced diet is important and we can eat meat in moderation without making ourselves sick on it. Lean meat (turkey for example) is a favourite of mine, while a good lean steak from Queen St Butchers in Nambour (free range; no hormones etc) is bloody beautiful.

I love eggs and try and buy cage free where possible.

I read an interesting book last year which talks a lot about the additives in food and the effects it has on your mind and body. Same with processed foods, high salt, high sugar and what struck me most was how so much food lacks essential minerals because the soil is over cropped and the soil starts to lose its fertility.....and this in turn means our fresh food and produce is lower in health than it should be.

Another thing that struck me was the amount of nerves in your stomach. It acts as a second brain (another discussion entirely but I will say don't ignore your gut feelings!) and when we eat crap we feel crap due to the high number of nerves in our gut, and the bad food we eat does lead to illness in many forms.

[Captain Punish]

Not sure if this is the right thread, but have not eaten any meat for over a week now and I feel a whole lot better all around ... plenty of energy, feeling positive etc ... have been eating the right things from a vegetarian perspective.

This was not driven by the health benefits (not here to debate that though), rather a strong passion in relation to cruelty to animals. Didn't make a conscious effort to start, just thought I'd cut back on the meat a bit and it is becoming a bit of a habit without trying.

Overall, feeling great.

What's your secret?

My missus is a vegetarian and she is a moody bitch!

(It has nothing to do with living with me.. I am lovely! )

[Shezza]

Dubby - just in between things so only a quick response - wasn't offended and didn't think you were saying that... all good mate.

[Manbush]

Funny thing with vegos is theyre depriving the very same animals they want to protect of life, majority of cows sheep chicken etc are purely on earth for food, if we stop eating them they wont be here anymore, personally I'd prefer to exist knowing one day I'll be killed for food then never live at all

[Shezza]

Funny thing with vegos is theyre depriving the very same animals they want to protect of life, majority of cows sheep chicken etc are purely on earth for food, if we stop eating them they wont be here anymore, personally I'd prefer to exist knowing one day I'll be killed for food then never live at all

Even if it meant you were in a cage that you couldn't turn around in with broken legs and force feed until you liver burst so that someone can enjoy foie gras? Top life that one

[Michael]

Funny thing with vegos is theyre depriving the very same animals they want to protect of life, majority of cows sheep chicken etc are purely on earth for food, if we stop eating them they wont be here anymore, personally I'd prefer to exist knowing one day I'll be killed for food then never live at all

You think those sorts of animals have the self-awareness and perspective to make that choice? I swear to god, you come up with some strange arguments sometimes - it's like you find the most obtuse angle on every issue.

[Manbush]

Funny thing with vegos is theyre depriving the very same animals they want to protect of life, majority of cows sheep chicken etc are purely on earth for food, if we stop eating them they wont be here anymore, personally I'd prefer to exist knowing one day I'll be killed for food then never live at all

You think those sorts of animals have the self-awareness and perspective to make that choice? I swear to god, you come up with some strange arguments sometimes - it's like you find the most obtuse angle on every issue.

I try my best mate

But going down your path of self awareness as long as theyre kept and killed humanely does it matter if we eat them, the moral high ground taken by some vegos is invalid either way

[greeneyed]

What about the plants? They're living too!

[Shezza]

Funny thing with vegos is theyre depriving the very same animals they want to protect of life, majority of cows sheep chicken etc are purely on earth for food, if we stop eating them they wont be here anymore, personally I'd prefer to exist knowing one day I'll be killed for food then never live at all

You think those sorts of animals have the self-awareness and perspective to make that choice? I swear to god, you come up with some strange arguments sometimes - it's like you find the most obtuse angle on every issue.

I try my best mate

But going down your path of self awareness as long as theyre kept and killed humanely does it matter if we eat them, the moral high ground taken by some vegos is invalid either way

No - that is fine and is part of nature. Please don't tell me that you think more than a tiny portion are treated that way though MB?

I didn't want to get into this issue as it is not the point of the thread... however you're posting in the same way that David90210 would on the matter ...

[Albi]

I used to take MB seriously, Shez, and in fact still like him lots, but I gave up having rational discussions with him because he's just a contrarian with more logically fallacies than can be counted

[Shezza]

And I thought old age brought wisdom! How wrong was I!

[Shezza]

Man it's hard to keep this vego thing up with all the travel and sitting in airport lounges and eating at hotels.... So far so good.

Back to the real topic, I have a regular cab driver whom I call a few times a week ... Today he mentioned he needs tips for his medication. I asked what they were and he mentioned depression. Starting to notice it everywhere...

Hard to tell if it is a cop out for anyone who is feeling a little down about prospects / life, or a real genuine problem. Kinda like ADD gets used these days.

[Manbush]

Funny thing with vegos is theyre depriving the very same animals they want to protect of life, majority of cows sheep chicken etc are purely on earth for food, if we stop eating them they wont be here anymore, personally I'd prefer to exist knowing one day I'll be killed for food then never live at all

You think those sorts of animals have the self-awareness and perspective to make that choice? I swear to god, you come up with some strange arguments sometimes - it's like you find the most obtuse angle on every issue.

I try my best mate

But going down your path of self awareness as long as theyre kept and killed humanely does it matter if we eat them, the moral high ground taken by some vegos is invalid either way

No - that is fine and is part of nature. Please don't tell me that you think more than a tiny portion are treated that way though MB?

I didn't want to get into this issue as it is not the point of the thread... however you're posting in the same way that David90210 would on the matter ...

I know a lot aren't but all the farms I grew up around the animals were treated very well so I won't get caught up in the hysteria and judge the industry as a whole.

[Albi]

Man it's hard to keep this vego thing up with all the travel and sitting in airport lounges and eating at hotels.... So far so good.

Back to the real topic, I have a regular cab driver whom I call a few times a week ... Today he mentioned he needs tips for his medication. I asked what they were and he mentioned depression. Starting to notice it everywhere...

Hard to tell if it is a cop out for anyone who is feeling a little down about prospects / life, or a real genuine problem. Kinda like ADD gets used these days.

With an increased literacy among the community about mental health, there will inevitably be many more people presenting to their doctors and more prescriptions written as a result. Unfortunately the efficacy of anti-ds for mild to moderate depression is poor. I'd recommend improved diet, cutting down/alcohol, regular exercise and a visit to your preferred psych/counsellor of course .

[Shezza]

In Rocky for a meeting soon... Let's do coffee. Seriously.

It won't be awkward... So, um aahhh your that guy from the Internet right ... Good posting and stuff.

[Manbush]

Man it's hard to keep this vego thing up with all the travel and sitting in airport lounges and eating at hotels.... So far so good.

Back to the real topic, I have a regular cab driver whom I call a few times a week ... Today he mentioned he needs tips for his medication. I asked what they were and he mentioned depression. Starting to notice it everywhere...

Hard to tell if it is a cop out for anyone who is feeling a little down about prospects / life, or a real genuine problem. Kinda like ADD gets used these days.

With an increased literacy among the community about mental health, there will inevitably be many more people presenting to their doctors and more prescriptions written as a result. Unfortunately the efficacy of anti-ds for mild to moderate depression is poor. I'd recommend improved diet, cutting down/alcohol, regular exercise and a visit to your preferred psych/counsellor of course .

Depends on the extent, being down is as natural part of life as being happy which is why I had to laugh when being sad i think it was was added as a mental illness, everyone goes through a certain amount but its when it starts getting really bad or long lasting I think you should seek help

[Albi]

In Rocky for a meeting soon... Let's do coffee. Seriously.

It won't be awkward... So, um aahhh your that guy from the Internet right ... Good posting and stuff.

Ever come to Bundy? PM me if you do

[Albi]

Man it's hard to keep this vego thing up with all the travel and sitting in airport lounges and eating at hotels.... So far so good.

Back to the real topic, I have a regular cab driver whom I call a few times a week ... Today he mentioned he needs tips for his medication. I asked what they were and he mentioned depression. Starting to notice it everywhere...

Hard to tell if it is a cop out for anyone who is feeling a little down about prospects / life, or a real genuine problem. Kinda like ADD gets used these days.

With an increased literacy among the community about mental health, there will inevitably be many more people presenting to their doctors and more prescriptions written as a result. Unfortunately the efficacy of anti-ds for mild to moderate depression is poor. I'd recommend improved diet, cutting down/alcohol, regular exercise and a visit to your preferred psych/counsellor of course .

Depends on the extent, being down is as natural part of life as being happy which is why I had to laugh when being sad i think it was was added as a mental illness, everyone goes through a certain amount but its when it starts getting really bad or long lasting I think you should seek help

Like I say, there's a large distinction between 'being a bit down' and depression. We all get down from time to time, but depression in all its guises as presented in the DSM IV is whole other story and must be taken seriously

[greeneyed]

[Pilz]

With an increased literacy among the community about mental health, there will inevitably be many more people presenting to their doctors and more prescriptions written as a result. Unfortunately the efficacy of anti-ds for mild to moderate depression is poor. I'd recommend improved diet, cutting down/alcohol, regular exercise and a visit to your preferred psych/counsellor of course .

Maybe. Personal experience suggests there will continue to be more and more people either NOT presenting or opting out after having presented to their doctors because they reckon they have at least as good a handle on it - and I do know that personal experience doesn't qualify as evidence.

The perception seems to be that diagnoses and treatment options are so contradictory between specialists that they can't know what they are talking about. I don't think the apparent 'fashionability' of particular diagnoses and certain courses of treatment does anything to diminish the cynicism. The other side of that coin of course is that sufferers and their well meaning family and freinds tend to hear what they want to hear and develop selective amnesia to the rest. A difficult subject.

Also, and with due respect, how does someone find a 'preferred psych/counsellor' in the first place except by going through the difficulty, expense and potential danger of cycling through all the un-preferred ones? I know your tongue was partly in your cheek when you wrote that but I thought I should point out that there is a similarly entrenched cynicism in this area too.

Please note I have no problem with your core advice about diet and exercise. I agree with that and would add a note about doing what you can to keep stress levels down - but I'm no expert, thank God.

Cheers.

[Shezza]

In Rocky for a meeting soon... Let's do coffee. Seriously.

It won't be awkward... So, um aahhh your that guy from the Internet right ... Good posting and stuff.

Ever come to Bundy? PM me if you do

Aahh my bad. Thought you mentioned Rocky ... Not Bundy.

Been twice... Not much reason to go there at the moment. If I'm ever in the neighborhood I'll say g'day.

[Albi]

With an increased literacy among the community about mental health, there will inevitably be many more people presenting to their doctors and more prescriptions written as a result. Unfortunately the efficacy of anti-ds for mild to moderate depression is poor. I'd recommend improved diet, cutting down/alcohol, regular exercise and a visit to your preferred psych/counsellor of course .

Maybe. Personal experience suggests there will continue to be more and more people either NOT presenting or opting out after having presented to their doctors because they reckon they have at least as good a handle on it - and I do know that personal experience doesn't qualify as evidence.

The perception seems to be that diagnoses and treatment options are so contradictory between specialists that they can't know what they are talking about. I don't think the apparent 'fashionability' of particular diagnoses and certain courses of treatment does anything to diminish the cynicism. The other side of that coin of course is that sufferers and their well meaning family and freinds tend to hear what they want to hear and develop selective amnesia to the rest. A difficult subject.

Also, and with due respect, how does someone find a 'preferred psych/counsellor' in the first place except by going through the difficulty, expense and potential danger of cycling through all the un-preferred ones? I know your tongue was partly in your cheek when you wrote that but I thought I should point out that there is a similarly entrenched cynicism in this area too.

Please note I have no problem with your core advice about diet and exercise. I agree with that and would add a note about doing what you can to keep stress levels down - but I'm no expert, thank God.

Cheers.

There's certainly Cynicism I have no doubt. I ran a suicide intervention skills training workshop on the Fraser Coast last weekend, and the group was full of stories about people's perceptions regarding 'the industry' and many weren't good.

As far as cost is concerned, the better access program allows up to 12 (usually 6) heavily subsidised visits to a psych or other allied health worker; or because I'm government funded, you can come see me for 5-10 bucks

[pickles]

Finding a good counsellor, psychologist or any other mental health professional is no different to finding a good mechanic, plumber etc.

You talk to people you know about who they know that has a good reputation or pick a number out of the phone book and hope for the best. Through the program Albi is referring to you need a referral from a GP so they should have some ideas.

The reality is that if you want to get the most out of a therapeutic process you need to be able to connect with the therapist. That might mean trying a few before finding a good fit (much harder in rural/remote areas) but if you thought your mechanic was dodgy would you keep going back or try something different?

Everyone should feel entitled to sack their health care professional if they don't feel they are getting the benefit they need.

[Albi]

****! I still owe you a post, Pickles!

Most of my clients are personal referrals.

The key to a successful therapeutic relationship not only lays in the skill of the therapist but also in the client's willingness to be an active participant.

If a person has an expectation that the therapist is going to "fix"them then they will come away from the process feeling very disappointed and disillusioned. It has to be collaborative or it won't work.

[pickles]

Absolutely agree that people need to be prepared to engage with the process Albi, without that they won't get anywhere. The old joke is how many psychologists does it take to change a light bulb? One, but only if it really wants to change.

That aside there is always the opportunity for personality clashes or adherence to techniques that don't mesh well with an individual. For example in relation to trauma some people believe that it must be discussed openly before it can be dealt with where other people believe that it is not necessary to revisit trauma to heal from it.

If you don't want to talk about an experience but are constantly pushed to by your therapist then it is unlikely the relationship will work out and it's best to move on.

Looking forward to the patenting post Albi, very interested to hear your perspective.

What was the suicide prevention course you were running? I am a living works trainer and think it is a brilliant course.