Canberra Raiders stay out of 2021 NSW Cup

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Canberra Raiders stay out of 2021 NSW Cup

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Mounties end NSW Cup time with Canberra Raiders

The Canterbury Bulldogs have pinched the Canberra Raiders' former NSW Cup feeder team Mounties. The Raiders will contact the NSW Rugby League to help them find a new team to link up with. It's the end of an eight-year partnership that was formed ahead of the 2012 season.

Read more: https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/ ... #gsc.tab=0
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Re: Mounties end NSW Cup time with Canberra Raiders

Post by Northern Raider »

Probably doesn't mean too much from a Raiders perspective. Just pick up another club in which to place our lower grade players.
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Re: Mounties end NSW Cup time with Canberra Raiders

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It has always been an uncomfortable fit, in my view. Mt Pritchard is part of the Eels' junior district... and the players head there or the other western Sydney clubs. Probably only a handful of players have been generated from that area for the Raiders.

The Raiders should enter their own team in the NSW Cup and base it at Seiffert Oval.
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Re: Mounties end NSW Cup time with Canberra Raiders

Post by Northern Raider »

greeneyed wrote: July 10, 2020, 4:36 pm It has always been an uncomfortable fit, in my view. Mt Pritchard is part of the Eels' junior district... and the players head there or the other western Sydney clubs. Probably only a handful of players have been generated from that area for the Raiders.

The Raiders should enter their own team in the NSW Cup and base it at Seiffert Oval.
Or Goulburn?
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Re: Mounties end NSW Cup time with Canberra Raiders

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Northern Raider wrote: July 10, 2020, 4:36 pm
greeneyed wrote: July 10, 2020, 4:36 pm It has always been an uncomfortable fit, in my view. Mt Pritchard is part of the Eels' junior district... and the players head there or the other western Sydney clubs. Probably only a handful of players have been generated from that area for the Raiders.

The Raiders should enter their own team in the NSW Cup and base it at Seiffert Oval.
Or Goulburn?
The Raiders investigated a partnership with Goulburn Workers before they linked with Mounties... hoping that licensed club would cover a good part of the costs. But they weren't willing to in the end. They support the Goulburn Bulldogs... that's probably as much as they can afford.

The Raiders Group could afford it all along... though this is not the best time, no doubt, given the impact on the club industry of coronavirus.
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Re: Mounties end NSW Cup time with Canberra Raiders

Post by nachopants »

greeneyed wrote: July 10, 2020, 4:36 pm The Raiders should enter their own team in the NSW Cup and base it at Seiffert Oval.
Didn't this whole mess start (from Souths Logan days) because the NSWRL buddied up with the NRL and basically "forced us" to adopt an existing NSWRL team?
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Re: Mounties end NSW Cup time with Canberra Raiders

Post by Northern Raider »

nachopants wrote: July 10, 2020, 4:54 pm
greeneyed wrote: July 10, 2020, 4:36 pm The Raiders should enter their own team in the NSW Cup and base it at Seiffert Oval.
Didn't this whole mess start (from Souths Logan days) because the NSWRL buddied up with the NRL and basically "forced us" to adopt an existing NSWRL team?
The partnership with Souths Logan was quite beneficial for the Raiders. Gave us access to a strong League nursery. Real shame we got forced out by other interests.
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Re: Mounties end NSW Cup time with Canberra Raiders

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nachopants wrote: July 10, 2020, 4:54 pm
greeneyed wrote: July 10, 2020, 4:36 pm The Raiders should enter their own team in the NSW Cup and base it at Seiffert Oval.
Didn't this whole mess start (from Souths Logan days) because the NSWRL buddied up with the NRL and basically "forced us" to adopt an existing NSWRL team?
Yes, the NSWRL forced us out of the Queensland Cup and end the affiliation with Souths Logan Magpies. The NSWRL even threatened the Raiders with expulsion from SG Ball and Harold Matthews unless they did. The NSWRL were open to us having our own team, or finding a partner.
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Mounties end NSW Cup time with Canberra Raiders

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad »

Northern Raider wrote:
greeneyed wrote: July 10, 2020, 4:36 pm It has always been an uncomfortable fit, in my view. Mt Pritchard is part of the Eels' junior district... and the players head there or the other western Sydney clubs. Probably only a handful of players have been generated from that area for the Raiders.

The Raiders should enter their own team in the NSW Cup and base it at Seiffert Oval.
Or Goulburn?
Bega Roosters for mine. The travel for other NSW teams would be a punish.

Other than that, has there been a change in stance, which could allow us to go back to Souths Logan?
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Re: Mounties end NSW Cup time with Canberra Raiders

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Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: July 10, 2020, 6:35 pm
Northern Raider wrote:
greeneyed wrote: July 10, 2020, 4:36 pm It has always been an uncomfortable fit, in my view. Mt Pritchard is part of the Eels' junior district... and the players head there or the other western Sydney clubs. Probably only a handful of players have been generated from that area for the Raiders.

The Raiders should enter their own team in the NSW Cup and base it at Seiffert Oval.
Or Goulburn?
Bega Roosters for mine. The travel for other NSW teams would be a punish.

Other than that, has there been a change in stance, which could allow us to go back to Souths Logan?
It'd be an absolute punish for the Raiders players too.

Souths Logan Magpies are now a Brisbane Broncos feeder team. Cant' say any of their feeder teams get much benefit from it though.
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Re: Mounties end NSW Cup time with Canberra Raiders

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Re: Mounties end NSW Cup time with Canberra Raiders

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Dusty wrote: July 10, 2020, 7:29 pm Fiji

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Not feasible financially really. Fiji needs a subsidy to participate. The Raiders are looking for a subsidy in this case... probably from a licensed club somewhere which would like to have a presence in NSW Cup. And then imagine the travel time and costs!

If it were a team in western Sydney... we'd have to think teams like Cabramatta, Wentworthville, Windsor or St Marys. But they have very strong links with other clubs, the Eels, Panthers and Bulldogs. I know they're linked up with Wests, but is there an entity in Campbelltown or Camden that might suit? I can never work out the politics of all that.
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Mounties end NSW Cup time with Canberra Raiders

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad »

Pretty sure all the leagues clubs out there are Wests

There’s Marconi, but they’re more Soccer.. but they are cashed up and have a League program
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Re: Mounties end NSW Cup time with Canberra Raiders

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Disappointing, I think the relationship with Mounties has been very beneficial.

I agree with GE that I would love us to have a team based in Canberra / Queanbeyan but I doubt that will happen in the current financial environment. It costs a lot of money to run a NSW Cup team and as I understand it, Mounties covered all the costs except for the full time Raiders players who are already being paid by the Raiders.

A NSW Cup team based here would have an effect on the Canberra Raiders cup. Presumably players who didn’t get a game would go back to local clubs but also be lost for local clubs late in the week when we have some injuries. The Mounties have a structure of a Ron Massey Cup team and previously also a Sydney Shield under that so there was always good depth.
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As an aside, in the first year of the relationship I got a chance to sit in the Mounties coaches box for a game at Canberra Stadium. They gave me a shirt in large size but it was a really small cut. I squeezed into it on the day but it never fitted properly. It has sat in the cupboard ever since.

At the start of the year I set myself a goal to lose some weight. One of the things I wanted to do was fit into the Mounties shirt. I have lost 22kg since January and it now fits easily. Now the relationship ends!!
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Mounties end NSW Cup time with Canberra Raiders

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If the Raiders set up a NSW Cup team in Canberra I’m of the view it would have very little impact on the Canberra Raiders Cup. We would recruit and attract that new level of player to Canberra... as we did before we lost our own “reserve grade” team. The Canberra Raiders Cup teams would still play and recruit their own, players who can’t get a run in NSW Cup or Queensland Cup. Our local pool of players living in Canberra isn’t finite, it’d grow. Things would go back to how they were before we made the unfortunate decision to cut our own NSW Cup team.

I can only recall one first grade player for the Raiders produced by Mounties off the top of my head... Clay Priest. He was fortunate to play first grade to be blunt. The Mounties have lower grades, but they’re not good depth. They’re players who will never play more than lower tier local Sydney competitions. Canberra Raiders Cup would provide at least equal depth if really required.

I’m not concerned about ties being cut with Mounties. They’re good rugby league people, but there have never been any major benefits for the Raiders, apart from a bit of extra cash and offering a place for our fringe players to get a game. It’s not really a junior nursery for the Raiders. I really hope we don’t get into a similar relationship with another Sydney team. They’re feeder/junior clubs for Sydney NRL clubs, not the Raiders.

We should be promoting the development of rugby league in Canberra and surrounds, first and foremost. The Raiders Group has always been able to support a NSW Cup team. They never had to set up a feeder relationship with Souths Logan or Mounties, on financial grounds. They could afford to support a NSW Cup team just as easily as Mt Pritchard or any Sydney team. They chose not to, because there were visions of NRL clubs becoming franchises, with no lower grades. It was the wrong idea all along. We’re not a franchise. We’re a football club. Our leagues clubs are supposed to be there to support local rugby league. We should have a complete local pathway.

No licensed club is in a great position to support a “new” NSW Cup team right now. But the Raiders Group should have been doing this all along.

The extra costs are not that significant. The Raiders players filled roughly 10-13 of the 17 players every week on average. The Raiders paid for the Mounties coach. They already have 30 NRL players and six development players on contract in normal times. The NRL grants to clubs now well exceed their salary caps. The burdens of supporting NRL teams on licensed clubs should have been reduced significantly. Time for the Raiders to bring back their own NSW Cup team in 2021.
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Royce Hunt was out of the Mounties system wasn't he?

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-TW- wrote: July 11, 2020, 12:02 am Royce Hunt was out of the Mounties system wasn't he?

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Yes you’re absolutely right. He came from WA, came through the Bulldogs juniors, then couldn’t get a first grade contact, went to Mounties in 2016. Then promoted to the Raiders in 2017. Played one NRL game for us. I don’t think it fundamentally changes my conclusion that Mounties has not been a fertile junior nursery for us.
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greeneyed wrote: July 10, 2020, 11:32 pm The Raiders Group has always been able to support a NSW Cup team. They never had to set up a feeder relationship with Souths Logan or Mounties, on financial grounds. They could afford to support a NSW Cup team just as easily as Mt Pritchard or any Sydney team.
That is not what the Raiders Group have said.

I personally have not gone through the finances so see if they can or can’t, I am just saying what the Raiders have said publicly.

One may argue that the Canterbury Leagues Club is one of the biggest in Sydney and if you purely base it on NSW Cup titles, the Bulldogs reserves have been one of the most successful clubs, yet they see an advantage in the partnership with Mounties rather than their own team.

As I have said before, I hope you are right and we have our own team, primarily playing curtain raisers at Canberra Stadium but otherwise playing at local grounds, but I just don’t think it will happen.
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Re: Mounties end NSW Cup time with Canberra Raiders

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Well the club’s hand may be forced as there are no non NRL aligned NSW clubs left. Roosters are at Norths, Eagles at Blacktown, Sharks at Newtown and now Dogs at Mounties.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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I have looked at the finances. I’m very confident the Raiders Group could have afforded the handful of extra part time players required and some operational costs. They chose not to. They even support other codes of football instead. The closure of clubs due to coronavirus, however, will have hit them all, hard. Canterbury Leagues is one of them, and that’s reportedly why the Bulldogs have done this. It is a cost cutting exercise for them. Mounties are in their own backyard as well, so there might be some prospect of a synergy with junior development. I suspect the Raiders will be hard pressed to find another leagues club that’s better placed than their owner. Guess we will see.
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greeneyed wrote: July 11, 2020, 10:45 am I have looked at the finances. I’m very confident the Raiders Group could have afforded the handful of extra part time players required and some operational costs. They chose not to. They even support other codes of football instead. The closure of clubs due to coronavirus, however, will have hit them all, hard. Canterbury Leagues is one of them, and that’s reportedly why the Bulldogs have done this. It is a cost cutting exercise for them. Mounties are in their own backyard as well, so there might be some prospect of a synergy with junior development. I suspect the Raiders will be hard pressed to find another leagues club that’s better placed than their owner. Guess we will see.
Next to no chance of some other club wanting to enter the NSW Cup next year given the hit they’ve all taken financially imo.
well, I guess you could say that I'm buy curious.
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Re: Mounties end NSW Cup time with Canberra Raiders

Post by Fuifui Bradbrad »

What about a group like Wyong Roos? If they’d be interested in a resurrection, it wouldn’t hurt having the Canberra and Central Coast regions as your development ground
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Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: July 11, 2020, 11:21 am What about a group like Wyong Roos? If they’d be interested in a resurrection, it wouldn’t hurt having the Canberra and Central Coast regions as your development ground
They made the decision to withdraw from NSW Cup in 2018, to focus their funding on local sport and charities: https://coastcommunitynews.com.au/centr ... mpetition/

The Sydney Roosters are still tied up with the Central Coast rugby league though: https://www.roosters.com.au/news/2019/0 ... t-pathway/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_C ... om_NSW_Cup
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Re: Mounties end NSW Cup time with Canberra Raiders

Post by Pun03 »

The Raiders have a large and loyal following in Queensland and the Souths Logan partnership produced some good players over the years.
I would personally like to see the Raiders go back to Souths Logan if feasible or seek another Queensland club.
The Storm have had great success up there.
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julian87 wrote: July 11, 2020, 10:48 am
greeneyed wrote: July 11, 2020, 10:45 am I have looked at the finances. I’m very confident the Raiders Group could have afforded the handful of extra part time players required and some operational costs. They chose not to. They even support other codes of football instead. The closure of clubs due to coronavirus, however, will have hit them all, hard. Canterbury Leagues is one of them, and that’s reportedly why the Bulldogs have done this. It is a cost cutting exercise for them. Mounties are in their own backyard as well, so there might be some prospect of a synergy with junior development. I suspect the Raiders will be hard pressed to find another leagues club that’s better placed than their owner. Guess we will see.
Next to no chance of some other club wanting to enter the NSW Cup next year given the hit they’ve all taken financially imo.
The last time I looked, Raiders Group also owned office buildings in Brisbane. COVID-19 forcing people to work from home could see lessees asking for rent reductions, etc. So, there's another income stream taking a hit.

Personally, I'd welcome either a Raiders side operating out of Seiffert or doing a doubleheader to entice more people to the NRL main game. Alternatively, it might be worth looking at Goulburn again, though I'd hope they fix the dead ball area to the left go the grandstand. I was at a Raiders vs Bulldogs trial game in heavy rain there and watched Blake Ferguson go over for a try and keep on sliding into the fence. Could have put him out for a couple fo weeks if things had gone wring.
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Re: Mounties end NSW Cup time with Canberra Raiders

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Pun03 wrote:The Raiders have a large and loyal following in Queensland and the Souths Logan partnership produced some good players over the years.
I would personally like to see the Raiders go back to Souths Logan if feasible or seek another Queensland club.
The Storm have had great success up there.
Broncos are linked with Souths Logan now

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I can’t remember exact details but the Broncos put a hold on their partnerships with the Q cup teams back in April due to all this covid business. This is what allowed the Redcliffe Dolphins to team up with the Warriors.

If we were looking to affiliate with a Q cup team
it would make sense due to travel and costs etc that we would link up with a Brisbane and surrounding regions team. All of these teams are currently affiliated with NRL clubs so you would need to convince a club to jump ship

Storm have Sunny Coast Falcons and Easts tigers and share players pretty equally. Sunny Coast are currently hosting the storm and the Tigers are in the middle of applying to be the 17th franchise.

Ipswich Jets joined up with the knights in 2019 so that relationship is to fresh to induce any change.

This also rules out Redcliffe Dolphins who like Easts Tigers are applying to be the 17th franchise but have just in the last month linked with the Warriors.

Tweed Seagulls and Burleigh Bears are locked in with the Titans and they have really stepped up their junior development in recent times.

This leaves the Broncos teams Souths Logan, Wynnum Manly and Norths Devils. I think the Broncos would happily reduce their involvement on one of these teams and the obvious choice is Norths.

They have invested a lot of money into Souths Logan and I could go into a lot more detail on why they won’t let them go but it is obvious to anyone up this way that they see SL as a big part of their future.

Wynnum’s junior development has improved over the last couple of years since the NYC finished and I believe this is in part due to the Broncos influence.

Norths seem to be the odd team out, they don’t seem to get the best players their junior clubs are smaller then the other two and I could see Broncos letting them go as a cost cutting process. We also have about 6 players on our books who went to School just around the corner from Devils so e obviously have eyes on the area.



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One thing to have Bulldogs linked to juniors like Cotric.. now they’ve taken the whole damn nursery!
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Re: Mounties end NSW Cup time with Canberra Raiders

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RTW wrote:I can’t remember exact details but the Broncos put a hold on their partnerships with the Q cup teams back in April due to all this covid business. This is what allowed the Redcliffe Dolphins to team up with the Warriors.

If we were looking to affiliate with a Q cup team
it would make sense due to travel and costs etc that we would link up with a Brisbane and surrounding regions team. All of these teams are currently affiliated with NRL clubs so you would need to convince a club to jump ship

Storm have Sunny Coast Falcons and Easts tigers and share players pretty equally. Sunny Coast are currently hosting the storm and the Tigers are in the middle of applying to be the 17th franchise.

Ipswich Jets joined up with the knights in 2019 so that relationship is to fresh to induce any change.

This also rules out Redcliffe Dolphins who like Easts Tigers are applying to be the 17th franchise but have just in the last month linked with the Warriors.

Tweed Seagulls and Burleigh Bears are locked in with the Titans and they have really stepped up their junior development in recent times.

This leaves the Broncos teams Souths Logan, Wynnum Manly and Norths Devils. I think the Broncos would happily reduce their involvement on one of these teams and the obvious choice is Norths.

They have invested a lot of money into Souths Logan and I could go into a lot more detail on why they won’t let them go but it is obvious to anyone up this way that they see SL as a big part of their future.

Wynnum’s junior development has improved over the last couple of years since the NYC finished and I believe this is in part due to the Broncos influence.

Norths seem to be the odd team out, they don’t seem to get the best players their junior clubs are smaller then the other two and I could see Broncos letting them go as a cost cutting process. We also have about 6 players on our books who went to School just around the corner from Devils so e obviously have eyes on the area.



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Mounties end NSW Cup time with Canberra Raiders

Post by greeneyed »

bonehead wrote:
RTW wrote:I can’t remember exact details but the Broncos put a hold on their partnerships with the Q cup teams back in April due to all this covid business. This is what allowed the Redcliffe Dolphins to team up with the Warriors.

If we were looking to affiliate with a Q cup team
it would make sense due to travel and costs etc that we would link up with a Brisbane and surrounding regions team. All of these teams are currently affiliated with NRL clubs so you would need to convince a club to jump ship

Storm have Sunny Coast Falcons and Easts tigers and share players pretty equally. Sunny Coast are currently hosting the storm and the Tigers are in the middle of applying to be the 17th franchise.

Ipswich Jets joined up with the knights in 2019 so that relationship is to fresh to induce any change.

This also rules out Redcliffe Dolphins who like Easts Tigers are applying to be the 17th franchise but have just in the last month linked with the Warriors.

Tweed Seagulls and Burleigh Bears are locked in with the Titans and they have really stepped up their junior development in recent times.

This leaves the Broncos teams Souths Logan, Wynnum Manly and Norths Devils. I think the Broncos would happily reduce their involvement on one of these teams and the obvious choice is Norths.

They have invested a lot of money into Souths Logan and I could go into a lot more detail on why they won’t let them go but it is obvious to anyone up this way that they see SL as a big part of their future.

Wynnum’s junior development has improved over the last couple of years since the NYC finished and I believe this is in part due to the Broncos influence.

Norths seem to be the odd team out, they don’t seem to get the best players their junior clubs are smaller then the other two and I could see Broncos letting them go as a cost cutting process. We also have about 6 players on our books who went to School just around the corner from Devils so e obviously have eyes on the area.



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Re: Mounties end NSW Cup time with Canberra Raiders

Post by RTW »

bonehead wrote:
RTW wrote:I can’t remember exact details but the Broncos put a hold on their partnerships with the Q cup teams back in April due to all this covid business. This is what allowed the Redcliffe Dolphins to team up with the Warriors.

If we were looking to affiliate with a Q cup team
it would make sense due to travel and costs etc that we would link up with a Brisbane and surrounding regions team. All of these teams are currently affiliated with NRL clubs so you would need to convince a club to jump ship

Storm have Sunny Coast Falcons and Easts tigers and share players pretty equally. Sunny Coast are currently hosting the storm and the Tigers are in the middle of applying to be the 17th franchise.

Ipswich Jets joined up with the knights in 2019 so that relationship is to fresh to induce any change.

This also rules out Redcliffe Dolphins who like Easts Tigers are applying to be the 17th franchise but have just in the last month linked with the Warriors.

Tweed Seagulls and Burleigh Bears are locked in with the Titans and they have really stepped up their junior development in recent times.

This leaves the Broncos teams Souths Logan, Wynnum Manly and Norths Devils. I think the Broncos would happily reduce their involvement on one of these teams and the obvious choice is Norths.

They have invested a lot of money into Souths Logan and I could go into a lot more detail on why they won’t let them go but it is obvious to anyone up this way that they see SL as a big part of their future.

Wynnum’s junior development has improved over the last couple of years since the NYC finished and I believe this is in part due to the Broncos influence.

Norths seem to be the odd team out, they don’t seem to get the best players their junior clubs are smaller then the other two and I could see Broncos letting them go as a cost cutting process. We also have about 6 players on our books who went to School just around the corner from Devils so e obviously have eyes on the area.



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What's the go with Toowoomba? they were a rich nursery area

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Plenty of quality talent is still coming out of the area and they have essentially taken PNG’s spot in the 20’s Comp up here with a team called the western Mustangs. But similar to the Capras it would be hard to keep them at the club through to Q cup level.

A reboot of the club was talked about a couple of years ago from the Titans. I think they even played the dragons in a premiership match and from memory got a touch up in Toowoomba. I’m not sure what happened with that in the end.

In more recent times the Western Corridor bid team have mentioned having them and Ipswich as feeder teams but this was prior to Ipswich joining up with the knights so I am not sure if that has any legs.


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Makaveli
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Re: Mounties end NSW Cup time with Canberra Raiders

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Article hidden behind a paywall, what exactly does this mean for the Bulldogs - Are they fielding two teams now?
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Re: Mounties end NSW Cup time with Canberra Raiders

Post by ckjchambers »

Dusty wrote: July 10, 2020, 7:29 pm Fiji
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