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Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 22, 2020, 8:27 pm
by greeneyed
Backs banned from scrums under rules trialled for round 20

Backs will be banned from packing into scrums and the NRL Bunker will review tries while the goal kicker is preparing for a conversion attempt under experimental rules to be trialled in matches with no impact on the NRL finals.

NRL CEO Andrew Abdo announced on Tuesday that Thursday night's Broncos-Cowboys match and Sunday's Warriors-Manly clash would be used to pressure test possible rule changes for next season.

They include:

Use of the "six-again" rule for 10-metre infringements
Handover for kicks into touch rather than a scrum
Nominated forwards only to pack in scrums
Change in the Bunker referral process to reduce stoppages

Read more: https://www.nrl.com/news/2020/09/22/new ... -round-20/

Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 22, 2020, 8:33 pm
by greeneyed
Use of the "six-again" rule for 10-metre infringements - The six again rule should be abandoned in my view, far too inconsistently applied. It certainly shouldn't be expanded.

Handover for kicks into touch rather than a scrum - Stop with the unnecessary changes already!

Nominated forwards only to pack in scrums - This I can get behind. What took so long? It should have been clamped down on when the practice first emerged.

Change in the Bunker referral process to reduce stoppages - The possibility of the bunker overturning an awarded try while a player is lining up for a conversion is ridiculous.

Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 22, 2020, 9:38 pm
by -TW-
6 again for offside is a bit far, that's pretty much removed all penalties except scrum and foul play

It'll be like a game of touch

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Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 22, 2020, 9:45 pm
by gangrenous
Plus how will they be able to sin bin the Raiders?

Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 22, 2020, 9:47 pm
by greeneyed
gangrenous wrote: September 22, 2020, 9:45 pm Plus how will they be able to sin bin the Raiders?
If you read the full story, there’s a Jack Wighton clause.

Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 22, 2020, 10:15 pm
by gergreg
-TW- wrote:6 again for offside is a bit far, that's pretty much removed all penalties except scrum and foul play

It'll be like a game of touch

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Except for the Roosters.

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Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 22, 2020, 10:17 pm
by gangrenous
If I read the full story... ain’t nobody got time for that

Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 23, 2020, 5:30 am
by reptar
gangrenous wrote:If I read the full story... ain’t nobody got time for that Image
What is this? School?

Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 23, 2020, 10:14 am
by The Nickman
I don't like kicking for touch being a handover (a kick for touch is a FANTASTIC option) and I have literally no idea how they enforce the "forwards only in the scrum" rule.

How is the ref supposed to keep track of who is playing what position out there? That's stupid.

Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 23, 2020, 10:15 am
by The Nickman
gangrenous wrote: September 22, 2020, 10:17 pm If I read the full story... ain’t nobody got time for that Image
Well that's a pretty big dubby. Shocking 24 hours by gangy here.

Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 23, 2020, 10:24 am
by Northern Raider
The Nickman wrote: September 23, 2020, 10:14 am I don't like kicking for touch being a handover (a kick for touch is a FANTASTIC option) and I have literally no idea how they enforce the "forwards only in the scrum" rule.

How is the ref supposed to keep track of who is playing what position out there? That's stupid.
Agree with that. Beyond the obvious of Big Nelson taking first hit up from a scrum win it's too hard to police. Doesn't achieve much either.

I think 2 simple rule changes are in order. Firstly get rid of differential penalties. Teams defending a scrum in their own 20m are giving away offisde penalties all the time. Shuts down any scrum base attack, no threat of conceding 2 points and gives them a chance to reset the line.

Second one is to penalise ruck infringements on Zero tackle. After a 20m restart the defending team always slow true ruck down knowing a 6 again call means nothing when it's already zero tackle.

Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 23, 2020, 10:29 am
by The Nickman
Why don't they just make six again optional? Meaning a team can stop play and kick for touch if they want or play on?

Count it as a penalty either way, but six again just becomes an option.

Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 23, 2020, 1:48 pm
by greeneyed
Northern Raider wrote: September 23, 2020, 10:24 am
The Nickman wrote: September 23, 2020, 10:14 am I don't like kicking for touch being a handover (a kick for touch is a FANTASTIC option) and I have literally no idea how they enforce the "forwards only in the scrum" rule.

How is the ref supposed to keep track of who is playing what position out there? That's stupid.
Agree with that. Beyond the obvious of Big Nelson taking first hit up from a scrum win it's too hard to police. Doesn't achieve much either.

I think 2 simple rule changes are in order. Firstly get rid of differential penalties. Teams defending a scrum in their own 20m are giving away offisde penalties all the time. Shuts down any scrum base attack, no threat of conceding 2 points and gives them a chance to reset the line.

Second one is to penalise ruck infringements on Zero tackle. After a 20m restart the defending team always slow true ruck down knowing a 6 again call means nothing when it's already zero tackle.
I'm not sure about that. It ensures that the play or plays after the scrum are a contest between the two sets of backs, with a much more open field than is usual. That makes for more exciting play, rather than crash balls for forwards, hoping to take advantage of a smaller player.

Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 23, 2020, 1:50 pm
by greeneyed
The Nickman wrote: September 23, 2020, 10:29 am Why don't they just make six again optional? Meaning a team can stop play and kick for touch if they want or play on?

Count it as a penalty either way, but six again just becomes an option.
That's what the rule used to be, essentially. You get awarded a penalty, and you can decide to kick for the line and take a tap, or just take a tap. And there was nothing wrong with that. I think we should return to it, actually.

Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 23, 2020, 1:57 pm
by Northern Raider
greeneyed wrote: September 23, 2020, 1:48 pm
Northern Raider wrote: September 23, 2020, 10:24 am
The Nickman wrote: September 23, 2020, 10:14 am I don't like kicking for touch being a handover (a kick for touch is a FANTASTIC option) and I have literally no idea how they enforce the "forwards only in the scrum" rule.

How is the ref supposed to keep track of who is playing what position out there? That's stupid.
Agree with that. Beyond the obvious of Big Nelson taking first hit up from a scrum win it's too hard to police. Doesn't achieve much either.

I think 2 simple rule changes are in order. Firstly get rid of differential penalties. Teams defending a scrum in their own 20m are giving away offisde penalties all the time. Shuts down any scrum base attack, no threat of conceding 2 points and gives them a chance to reset the line.

Second one is to penalise ruck infringements on Zero tackle. After a 20m restart the defending team always slow true ruck down knowing a 6 again call means nothing when it's already zero tackle.
I'm not sure about that. It ensures that the play or plays after the scrum are a contest between the two sets of backs, with a much more open field than is usual. That makes for more exciting play, rather than crash balls for forwards, hoping to take advantage of a smaller player.
I understand the theory. Not sure it can be applied in practice. Particular with so many hybrid players on the edge. If a team has 2 of those on one side how does the ref know which is centre and back rower.

Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 23, 2020, 2:00 pm
by greeneyed
Northern Raider wrote: September 23, 2020, 1:57 pm
greeneyed wrote: September 23, 2020, 1:48 pm
Northern Raider wrote: September 23, 2020, 10:24 am
The Nickman wrote: September 23, 2020, 10:14 am I don't like kicking for touch being a handover (a kick for touch is a FANTASTIC option) and I have literally no idea how they enforce the "forwards only in the scrum" rule.

How is the ref supposed to keep track of who is playing what position out there? That's stupid.
Agree with that. Beyond the obvious of Big Nelson taking first hit up from a scrum win it's too hard to police. Doesn't achieve much either.

I think 2 simple rule changes are in order. Firstly get rid of differential penalties. Teams defending a scrum in their own 20m are giving away offisde penalties all the time. Shuts down any scrum base attack, no threat of conceding 2 points and gives them a chance to reset the line.

Second one is to penalise ruck infringements on Zero tackle. After a 20m restart the defending team always slow true ruck down knowing a 6 again call means nothing when it's already zero tackle.
I'm not sure about that. It ensures that the play or plays after the scrum are a contest between the two sets of backs, with a much more open field than is usual. That makes for more exciting play, rather than crash balls for forwards, hoping to take advantage of a smaller player.
I understand the theory. Not sure it can be applied in practice. Particular with so many hybrid players on the edge. If a team has 2 of those on one side how does the ref know which is centre and back rower.
Numbers on their backs... and the clubs are apparently going to have to designate the forwards (covering for interchange, sin bins and injury). It should be the responsibility of the teams to get their designated forwards into the scrum, on time. Until the coaches started messing with it, if used to just happen as a matter of course.

Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 23, 2020, 2:03 pm
by The Nickman
That’s ridiculously stupid. I understand, in theory, how backs vs backs on every scrum would be amazing

But practicality wise, it’s impossible to enforce. Like on the weekend when Williams and Croker left the field, how does the ref know who goes where in the scrum?

Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 23, 2020, 2:35 pm
by Northern Raider
I guess that's why it's only a trial. They can see if it's working or not.

Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 23, 2020, 3:01 pm
by Dr Zaius
Stupid rule

Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 23, 2020, 3:52 pm
by BJ
Forwards only in scrums:

adds complexity and confusion, increases the pressure on refs, will likely create an issue when the ref misses a person.

I don’t see the benefit value for this rule change. Rugby league needs to be kept simple. Not complex like rugby union.

Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 23, 2020, 4:02 pm
by -TW-
The Nickman wrote:Why don't they just make six again optional? Meaning a team can stop play and kick for touch if they want or play on?

Count it as a penalty either way, but six again just becomes an option.
I wouldn't mind it being like a free kick in AFL, either you play on and take the advantage or you stop and take the penalty instead.

Getting 6 again on tackle 1 on your own try line, vs 6 again when you have a team on the rack is miles apart.

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Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 23, 2020, 4:19 pm
by The Nickman
-TW- wrote: September 23, 2020, 4:02 pm
The Nickman wrote:Why don't they just make six again optional? Meaning a team can stop play and kick for touch if they want or play on?

Count it as a penalty either way, but six again just becomes an option.
I wouldn't mind it being like a free kick in AFL, either you play on and take the advantage or you stop and take the penalty instead.

Getting 6 again on tackle 1 on your own try line, vs 6 again when you have a team on the rack is miles apart.

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Exactly. That's what I was trying to say but not quite as eloquently.

Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 23, 2020, 7:25 pm
by -PJ-
I hate all the rule changes.

The only thing keeping me watching is our club.

Seriously, the modern game is losing me.

So, CNK packs into lock at a scrum, picks the ball up from the base of the scrum and beats defenders to score a try. Is the try dissallowed ? If the onfield ref allows the scrum to be packed that's telling me he's checked the 12 humans making up the scrum are indeed "forwards". Imagine a try being disallowed after the bunker intervene and tell the ref there was a fullback packed at lock..

Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 23, 2020, 7:43 pm
by Sid
How normal is it in other sports to go into a round having 2 different sets of rules across the games? Do the likes of NFL, Union or AFL do this?

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Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 23, 2020, 10:33 pm
by -TW-
Other Sports generally use their 2nd tiers to trial rules, like NRL used to do with the 20s

I don't have an issue seeing these games are dead rubbers.. it makes them a bit more interesting

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Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 23, 2020, 10:43 pm
by reptar
-TW- wrote:Other Sports generally use their 2nd tiers to trial rules, like NRL used to do with the 20s

I don't have an issue seeing these games are dead rubbers.. it makes them a bit more interesting

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I dunno about that. Watching the Broncos lose was already pretty interesting.


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Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 23, 2020, 10:43 pm
by Fuifui Bradbrad
The Nickman wrote:That’s ridiculously stupid. I understand, in theory, how backs vs backs on every scrum would be amazing

But practicality wise, it’s impossible to enforce. Like on the weekend when Williams and Croker left the field, how does the ref know who goes where in the scrum?
According to NRL360, the clubs nominate 10 players to pack the scrum. The number came from 6 Forwards on the field + 4 Interchange players.

While I get the logic if you’re a team that has a utility back on the bench, like when we had Bailey there, that could free you up a slot

Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 23, 2020, 10:44 pm
by reptar
Gavin Badge Beardman Badger is retiring from reffing in the NRL. Looks like he might be being pushed, too.


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Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 23, 2020, 10:45 pm
by reptar
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote:
The Nickman wrote:That’s ridiculously stupid. I understand, in theory, how backs vs backs on every scrum would be amazing

But practicality wise, it’s impossible to enforce. Like on the weekend when Williams and Croker left the field, how does the ref know who goes where in the scrum?
According to NRL360, the clubs nominate 10 players to pack the scrum. The number came from 6 Forwards on the field + 4 Interchange players.

While I get the logic if you’re a team that has a utility back on the bench, like when we had Bailey there, that could free you up a slot
Stupid idea. Works in NFL to have nominated positional players. Can’t see it working in league.


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Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 24, 2020, 9:18 am
by Fuifui Bradbrad
reptar wrote: September 23, 2020, 10:44 pm Gavin Badge Beardman Badger is retiring from reffing in the NRL. Looks like he might be being pushed, too.


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Yeah I've been seeing the posts flying around about Badge. What's going on there?

In other news - Panthers are looking for legal action on some rumours that have been flying around. From my mail, the rumours are linked to the Head Coach allegedly sleeping with the Halfback's mum

Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 24, 2020, 9:33 am
by SubLime Green
The Nickman wrote: September 23, 2020, 10:29 am Why don't they just make six again optional? Meaning a team can stop play and kick for touch if they want or play on?

Count it as a penalty either way, but six again just becomes an option.
The attacking team would always take the penalty and the free 30m on offer. The only time the 6-again call benefits the attacking team over a penalty is to prevent the opposition intentionally slowing the ruck (i.e. committing professional fouls) while defending their try-line. Even then, most teams would probably just take the 2 points on offer over a set restart.
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: September 23, 2020, 10:43 pm
The Nickman wrote:That’s ridiculously stupid. I understand, in theory, how backs vs backs on every scrum would be amazing

But practicality wise, it’s impossible to enforce. Like on the weekend when Williams and Croker left the field, how does the ref know who goes where in the scrum?
According to NRL360, the clubs nominate 10 players to pack the scrum. The number came from 6 Forwards on the field + 4 Interchange players.

While I get the logic if you’re a team that has a utility back on the bench, like when we had Bailey there, that could free you up a slot
Is there anything to stop Melbourne naming Asofa-Solomona on the wing pre-game and then 'shifting' him to prop from the first minute of the game? That would guarantee he gets a free run at a smaller man from every scrum play.

Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 24, 2020, 10:15 am
by Fuifui Bradbrad
SubLime Green wrote: September 24, 2020, 9:33 am
The Nickman wrote: September 23, 2020, 10:29 am Why don't they just make six again optional? Meaning a team can stop play and kick for touch if they want or play on?

Count it as a penalty either way, but six again just becomes an option.
The attacking team would always take the penalty and the free 30m on offer. The only time the 6-again call benefits the attacking team over a penalty is to prevent the opposition intentionally slowing the ruck (i.e. committing professional fouls) while defending their try-line. Even then, most teams would probably just take the 2 points on offer over a set restart.
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote: September 23, 2020, 10:43 pm
The Nickman wrote:That’s ridiculously stupid. I understand, in theory, how backs vs backs on every scrum would be amazing

But practicality wise, it’s impossible to enforce. Like on the weekend when Williams and Croker left the field, how does the ref know who goes where in the scrum?
According to NRL360, the clubs nominate 10 players to pack the scrum. The number came from 6 Forwards on the field + 4 Interchange players.

While I get the logic if you’re a team that has a utility back on the bench, like when we had Bailey there, that could free you up a slot
Is there anything to stop Melbourne naming Asofa-Solomona on the wing pre-game and then 'shifting' him to prop from the first minute of the game? That would guarantee he gets a free run at a smaller man from every scrum play.
From what I understood from 360, they wouldn't even need to do that. Just don't nominate him as one of the 10 players to pack the scrum

Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 25, 2020, 11:43 am
by Fuifui Bradbrad
A really interesting interview on Gavin Badger, including why Cam Smith is so influential and the worst player to ref

I also found his insight around Ref errors interesting. In that if a player drops a ball and costs a game, it’s all “Let’s get around and support the poor lad.” But if a ref makes a wrong call, we call for Blood. He clearly hasn’t been on TheGH after a loss

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 2b77345194

Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: September 25, 2020, 11:57 am
by Sid
Fuifui Bradbrad wrote:
reptar wrote: September 23, 2020, 10:44 pm Gavin Badge Beardman Badger is retiring from reffing in the NRL. Looks like he might be being pushed, too.


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Yeah I've been seeing the posts flying around about Badge. What's going on there?

In other news - Panthers are looking for legal action on some rumours that have been flying around. From my mail, the rumours are linked to the Head Coach allegedly sleeping with the Halfback's mum
Image

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Re: Rugby League 2020

Posted: October 11, 2020, 1:04 am
by moto748
Don't like the idea of forwards only in the scrum. I don't see why teams can't put whoever they see fit into the scrum. What i would say is that the rule of allowing a midfield scrum has rescued scrums from being a pointless anachronism that could easily be done away with, to a realistic attacking platform, as many teams have shown.

And I'll just say again that the NRL tinkers with the rules far too much. I wonder, in other countries in lower level leagues, say in France or Fiji or NZ or Serbia or wherever, whose set of rules do they play by? There's quite a choice now! In a sane world, there'd be one set of rules followed everywhere, like football or rugby union. And the fact that there isn't probably says a lot about the weakness of our international game, compared to those sports.