2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

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Botman
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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Botman » July 6, 2019, 11:35 am

gangrenous wrote:
July 6, 2019, 11:01 am
PigRickman wrote: When you say the raiders get refereed differently, that's not unconscious bias. That's accusing the NRL of very consciously disadvantaging.
No it isn’t. Remove the Raiders from it so you lose the red mist in yours eyes.

If you accept that star players receive unconscious bias. The outcome of that is that they were - refereed differently.
You’ve said the raiders get treated worse than every other team. Not as bad as other low profile clubs. Worse.
That’s not unconscious bias, that’s just bias.

Yes superstars do get favourable treatment
Including our own superstars. Unless your argument is the raiders don’t have any stars, despite boasting a roster of about 8-9 rep players?
As I said in my post above, we have Rapana who’s widely considered one of, if not the best winger in the world
We have Cotric, who is already a darling of the nrl. Teenage sensation, rookie of the year, SOO rep
We have Croker, who was voted captain of the year, proven summons medalist for most popular player, is constantly being spoken about in the mainstream media for his pointscoring prowess
We have papalii, a stalwart of the qld and Australian pack
Wighton, SOO rep
We have Josh Hodgson, 2nd or at worst 3rd best hooker in the game. English rep.
Elliott Whitehead and Bateman, both walk up starts for England.
Joesph Tapine, NZ international

The idea we don’t have superstars is absolutely ridiculous. Croker and Hodgson in particular get a TON of calls go their way
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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by greeneyed » July 6, 2019, 11:49 am

The idea that the Raiders is a team that is chock full of "superstars" and get the advantage of the star athlete effect is ridiculous.

It might be changing, but the main reason that the Raiders have representative players is because we've imported them from England or New Zealand. And I don't think that has the same aura as Origin and Kangaroos representation. The fact that referees constantly refuse to speak to both the Raiders' captains and wave them away shows how little star athlete effect there is. For years have been lucky to have a single representative in Origin.

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2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by gangrenous » July 6, 2019, 11:54 am

PigRickman wrote: You’ve said the raiders get treated worse than every other team. Not as bad as other low profile clubs. Worse.
That’s not unconscious bias, that’s just bias.
Bull

Quote me.

P.S. nice shifting the goal posts.

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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Botman » July 6, 2019, 12:06 pm

gangrenous wrote:
July 6, 2019, 10:37 am
Even accounting for my bias though, I am still of the opinion that the Raiders are not refereed in the same fashion as their opponents.
There you go
From only a few posts ago
Treated differently from their opponents.

Unless you want to say you were implying by being treated differently you meant better? :D
Not a selection of opponents
Just their opponents.
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2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by gangrenous » July 6, 2019, 12:13 pm

****. For someone who claims to understand statistics you can’t understand the usage of opponents in an average sense?

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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Botman » July 6, 2019, 12:14 pm

Haha I’m just providing the quote you ask for, pal
Don’t get cranky with me because you’ve gotten yourself into a bind
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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by gangrenous » July 6, 2019, 12:21 pm

That’s like if someone said Aboriginals experience more disadvantage than Anglo-Saxons and you claiming that they have just said Aboriginals experience more disadvantage than every single Anglo-Saxon.

Being deliberately obtuse.

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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Botman » July 6, 2019, 12:29 pm

Haha woah. A wild swing.

God I love you gangers.
One day we’ll have beers, and we’ll get drunk and I’ll have you sectioned but know when they day comes it will be hard for me to sign those papers
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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Dr Zaius » July 6, 2019, 1:02 pm

The Rickman wrote:
Dr Zaius wrote:
The Rickman wrote: Ok, so let me get this right. Just bear with me...

When the dragons player failed to get to his feet to play the ball and they scored a try that's NOT unrecognised bias, but when the storm players dragged a dragons player into the in goal it IS unrecognised bias… correct??
There's pretty good evidence that influences on officials effect sports results. There is a Freakonomics podcast that explores it. I'm not sure that it is at the level that Fergus sees it as, but your complete denial of its existence is as extreme as you perceive his belief in its existence to be. I'd say that it is juvenile and beneath you, but you seem to carry on about a lot of stuff of late.

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Ok, so this is where you’re wrong, I (and I’m pretty sure the “other” Nick too) don’t deny the “complete existence” of unrecognised bias in sports, in fact I’ve already said on several occasions that there’s issues there, the big one being home ground advantage having an impact on the referees, as well as more annoying things such as “square ups” in the penalty count, you’d have to be a complete fool to suggest those things don’t occur. Home ground fans DEFINITELY sway the referee, in fact I’ve seen packed houses in Canberra do that very thing! And the evening up of the penalty count happens almost every single game, something many of us on here have long lamented as frustrating to watch.

The broncos have the best stadium in rugby league, they have by far the biggest attendance on a week to week basis, and hence the loudest fan base. So of COURSE they get most of the calls when they’re at home (and hot tip Ferg, our beloved Queensland benefits from the same advantage at Lang Park, only magnified). And people have spent the last two decades watching the broncos every second Friday night getting call after call at home and that’s where the “penalty broncos” meme surfaced from.

But they shouldn’t be alone there! We have a home ground too, our fans are capable of being rowdy as well, and we HAVE seen them influence the referees, in fact every team in the NRL enjoys a varying level of success at home and that is largely due to unconscious bias. It’s a thing, nobody’s denying it’s a thing, in fact it’s ludicrous to suggest that’s what we’re denying here in this ongoing and often quite tedious “debate”.

But what we ARE denying here is this absurd perception by guys like Fergus and gangrenous that the NRL is somehow out to get the raiders, that we get ripped off more by the officials than any other team in the NRL, that there’s somehow a concerted effort by the “man” to keep us down (which strangely is more prevalent in years where we’re struggling, but magically vanishes when we’re playing well as a team). And now you throw into the debate gangrenous’ ridiculous assertion that because he can remember off the top of his head four “howlers” (howler seeming to be the definition gangrenous gives to any decision that goes against the raiders and doesn’t equally apply to teams such as the roosters) that have gone against the raiders and demands us to prove otherwise. But hot tip: we all are huge raiders fans, and guys like gangrenous and Fergus obsess so much over every refereeing decision, so of COURSE they remember the perceived howlers that occur against us, but immediately dismiss incorrect calls in our favour as “just good luck”.

You’ll find fans of every team carrying around in their memory evidence of occasions where their team was “ripped off” by the referees, I’m surrounded by Cowboys fans up here, they’re CONVINCED the refs screw the cowboys on a week to week basis, and Queensland doesn’t lose an Origin without it being the “refs’ fault” in circles that I drink in. But absolutely NOBODY (myself, the other Nick, Fergus and gangrenous included) carries around in their memories times when they “got lucky” with the referees, you just don’t do it!

As evidence of this, go to the raiders v sharks game from a few weeks ago on LU. The last few pages are just salty sharks fans blowing up about the referees and why Jarrod Croker wasn’t sin binned towards the end of the game and how it cost them the two points in a game they were “definitely” going to win. They’re carrying on like a real bunch of gangrenouses.

And in this VERY thread, Fergus points out a wrong decision against the Storm in the act of a try being scored, no less. That’s HUGE. Then when a decision goes FOR the Storm, he straight up points that one as unconscious bias. Because it went the way of the storm. I point this out to him to prove his hypocrisy and I’M the one being silly? Come on now.

In closing, you’re all **** nuts. Unconscious bias DOES exist, but the raiders benefit from it as much as any other team in the NRL, although teams such as the broncos and Queensland have a much stronger homer advantage than other teams.
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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by greeneyed » July 6, 2019, 1:06 pm

I'll also add that the Raiders certainly do not benefit from the "star team or club" effect. They have not won a premiership in 25 years. They have not made a Grand Final in 25 years. They have played in just one Preliminary Final since 1995. They finished 10th in the past two seasons. During the time of the NRL, they have generally been a team on the fringe of the eight, making the finals every second season. They have made the finals just once in the past six seasons. This is the epitome of a club that the powers that be don't give much two hoots about. Ricky Stuart himself says in his experience, the NRL treats the Raiders less favourably than the other clubs he's coached at.

I'd like to think this could change as the NRL recognises its unrecognised biases and the lack of level playing field.

However, the surest way for it to change is for the club is perform so strongly, they overcome the disadvantages, to win a premiership and regularly feature in the finals, if not the top four.
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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Botman » July 6, 2019, 3:50 pm

What an insult to players and club
And from GE of all people

Croker, Cotric, Rapana, Wighton, Hodgson, Papalii, Tapine, Whitehead, Bateman
Not a star amongst them
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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by greeneyed » July 6, 2019, 4:07 pm

That's a ridiculous reaction to the point being made. But not unexpected, as that's part of the denialists' standard debating tactics.
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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Dr Zaius » July 6, 2019, 4:59 pm

PigRickman wrote:Haha woah. A wild swing.

God I love you gangers.
One day we’ll have beers, and we’ll get drunk and I’ll have you sectioned but know when they day comes it will be hard for me to sign those papers
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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Botman » July 6, 2019, 5:15 pm

greeneyed wrote:
July 6, 2019, 4:07 pm
That's a ridiculous reaction to the point being made. But not unexpected, as that's part of the denialists' standard debating tactics.
I like the way you try and come up with these little labels to help with your messaging

Very Trumpian
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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Thomas Raider » July 6, 2019, 5:47 pm

Fake news :roflmao

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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Makaveli » July 6, 2019, 6:25 pm

Anyone watching the NSW Cup game on fox.. don’t know who is worse, the Warriors or this referee. Penalty and dropathon

This ref loves Newcastle 10 2 penalty count what a joke

Sends Milne to the bin for a high shot off the shoulder haha **** me

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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Botman » July 6, 2019, 8:23 pm

a lesson in dumb ****.
If you're going to go at the footy like that, and try and force the ball to concede the **** line drop out, just hit the thing out of play :lol:
CHrist that **** drives me crazy
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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by gergreg » July 6, 2019, 8:38 pm

The Warriors are putrid. They have a decent squad but ... Kearney's gotta go.

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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Makaveli » July 6, 2019, 9:09 pm

What a **** joke how has he lost that and they said it was a try to Marsters get **** this bunker

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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Makaveli » July 6, 2019, 9:12 pm

Now they let play continue after a player is down and Newcastle score well done referees well done

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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Botman » July 6, 2019, 9:14 pm

This should be fun
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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Makaveli » July 6, 2019, 9:16 pm

Tonight we learnt the referee can't stop play if a player is knocked out unless a trainer asks them too. That will go down well in the lawsuit

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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by greeneyed » July 6, 2019, 9:21 pm

Warriors go in front!
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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Makaveli » July 6, 2019, 9:21 pm

Are you sure that's grounded in the bunker you incompetent ****

Sucko Newcastle

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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Makaveli » July 6, 2019, 9:23 pm

Newcastle knock on and get the scrum feed. What do you expect from these referees

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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by greeneyed » July 6, 2019, 9:25 pm

Go for the field goal!
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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by greeneyed » July 6, 2019, 9:26 pm

That's got to be a crowding penalty!
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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Makaveli » July 6, 2019, 9:26 pm

Just hold them down

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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by greeneyed » July 6, 2019, 9:27 pm

Now the Knights get a scrum penalty! Differential. If the Warriors lose... it stinks.
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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Makaveli » July 6, 2019, 9:27 pm

Stupid fox clock is slow

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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Makaveli » July 6, 2019, 9:28 pm

Haha sucked in Newcastle referees tried their best to rob the Warriors

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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by greeneyed » July 6, 2019, 9:28 pm

Now a penalty! And a Warriors player in the bin, with no time left. Warriors win 24-20. The referees did everything possible to hand that to the Knights in the final minute.
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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by The Greenhouse » July 6, 2019, 9:29 pm

FULL TIME

New Zealand Warriors 24
Newcastle Knights 20

Warriors strike late to squeak past Knights



Warriors bench player Sam Lisone pounced on a fumbled kick for just the third try of his career to snatch a late 24-20 win over the Newcastle Knights at McDonald Jones Stadium on Saturday night.

Read more: https://www.nrl.com/news/2019/07/06/war ... t-knights/



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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Botman » July 6, 2019, 9:29 pm

That was incredible to watch
Good on the warriors. They absolutely deserved that
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Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by gergreg » July 6, 2019, 9:31 pm

Makaveli wrote:Tonight we learnt the referee can't stop play if a player is knocked out unless a trainer asks them too. That will go down well in the lawsuit

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The same thing happened in Townsville when two Cowboys went down with serious injuries and the referees copped an absolute bollocking for insisting that the trainer had to tell them to stop play. Ten rounds later they do exactly the same thing.

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