2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Talk about NRL, State of Origin, Tests, Four Nations, World Cup, everything rugby league

Moderator: GH Moderators

User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 128159
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by greeneyed » July 5, 2019, 5:42 pm

The Rickman wrote:
July 5, 2019, 4:10 pm
greeneyed wrote:
July 5, 2019, 3:53 pm
The Rickman wrote:So it's only unrecognised bias if the officials make a mistake in favour of *checks notes*… the roosters, storm or broncos??

Everything else is just a mistake?
You’re being silly now. Unrecognised bias doesn’t rule out the possibility of incorrect decisions being made against star teams or athletes. Overall however, the star teams and athletes receive more favoured treatment in officiating.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ok, so let me get this right. Just bear with me...

When the dragons player failed to get to his feet to play the ball and they scored a try that's NOT unrecognised bias, but when the storm players dragged a dragons player into the in goal it IS unrecognised bias… correct??
You’re too smart this shtick.
Image

The Nickman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 44466
Joined: June 25, 2012, 9:53 am
Favourite Player: Hodgo
Location: Rockhampton, Central Queensland

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by The Nickman » July 5, 2019, 5:44 pm

I'm not even joking on this! YOU can't even see your own unrecognised biases here!
Image
2012 Golden Boogs Newbie of the Year
2013 'Nella Awards Best Punter
2013 Boogs Thread of the Year ~ The Betting Thread
2014 Boogs Matthew Elliott Award Winner
2014 Boogs some award with Hanbush

User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 128159
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by greeneyed » July 5, 2019, 5:52 pm

You understand statistics so you don’t need to pretend.
Image

User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 26197
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Nick Cotric

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Botman » July 5, 2019, 6:41 pm

:lol: Tremendous stuff

I'll say this for GE, he's asbolutely right when he said there was some unrecognised biased in action. And it wasn't coming from the officials!
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;

User avatar
Makaveli
Gary Belcher
Posts: 6016
Joined: January 16, 2005, 9:49 pm
Location: Gold Coast

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Makaveli » July 5, 2019, 8:10 pm

Switching to Nine to avoid hearing that **** Blocker commentate a Tigers game

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk


gergreg
Steve Walters
Posts: 7407
Joined: June 24, 2008, 4:22 pm

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by gergreg » July 5, 2019, 9:11 pm

Tigers playing some great footy now. Spreading it wide - the best way to play the Roosters IMO, as they generally play quite compressed.

But gee that's a lucky call for the try.

Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk

Shoving it in your face since 2017

User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 26197
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Nick Cotric

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Botman » July 5, 2019, 9:11 pm

Cant believe the call the roosters just got. Unrecognised bais in play
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;

gergreg
Steve Walters
Posts: 7407
Joined: June 24, 2008, 4:22 pm

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by gergreg » July 5, 2019, 9:14 pm

PigRickman wrote:Cant believe the call the roosters just got. Unrecognised bais in play
A better way to think about it is, if that's a Raiders player 9 out of 10 times it's declared a no-try.

Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk

Shoving it in your face since 2017

User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 26197
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Nick Cotric

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Botman » July 5, 2019, 9:23 pm

gergreg wrote:
July 5, 2019, 9:14 pm
PigRickman wrote:Cant believe the call the roosters just got. Unrecognised bais in play
A better way to think about it is, if that's a Raiders player 9 out of 10 times it's declared a no-try.

Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk
It's 9/10 a no try for EVERY **** club, Gerg! haha
Except against the roosters, who the refs and NRL obvious target... wait, what?
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;

User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 128159
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by greeneyed » July 5, 2019, 9:48 pm

I don’t accept that one Nick doesn’t understand statistical analysis... but I get it that the other one might not. But by all means, keep going. The vast array of academic studies appearing in respected academic journals... which have led to the conclusion that there’s unrecognised bias in sports officiating... well that’s not going to go away any time soon.
Image

User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 26197
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Nick Cotric

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Botman » July 5, 2019, 10:11 pm

I can't speak for THAT Nick, but i can speak for this one. I work with data and stasticis for a job, day in and day out. I understand statisical analysis on a level far greater than most. Of that im absolutely certain.
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;

User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 128159
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by greeneyed » July 5, 2019, 10:25 pm

PigRickman wrote:
July 5, 2019, 10:11 pm
I can't speak for THAT Nick, but i can speak for this one. I work with data and stasticis for a job, day in and day out. I understand statisical analysis on a level far greater than most. Of that im absolutely certain.
Good to hear.
Image

gergreg
Steve Walters
Posts: 7407
Joined: June 24, 2008, 4:22 pm

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by gergreg » July 5, 2019, 10:27 pm


PigRickman wrote:
gergreg wrote:
July 5, 2019, 9:14 pm
PigRickman wrote:Cant believe the call the roosters just got. Unrecognised bais in play
A better way to think about it is, if that's a Raiders player 9 out of 10 times it's declared a no-try.

Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk
It's 9/10 a no try for EVERY **** club, Gerg! haha
Except against the roosters, who the refs and NRL obvious target... wait, what?
Is it a no-try 9/10 times for the Broncos?

Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk

Shoving it in your face since 2017

User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 26197
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Nick Cotric

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Botman » July 5, 2019, 10:36 pm

gergreg wrote:
July 5, 2019, 10:27 pm
PigRickman wrote:
gergreg wrote:
July 5, 2019, 9:14 pm
PigRickman wrote:Cant believe the call the roosters just got. Unrecognised bais in play
A better way to think about it is, if that's a Raiders player 9 out of 10 times it's declared a no-try.

Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk
It's 9/10 a no try for EVERY **** club, Gerg! haha
Except against the roosters, who the refs and NRL obvious target... wait, what?
Is it a no-try 9/10 times for the Broncos?

Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk
Of course not, the NRL would never allow such a prestigous club to be subject to such horrific crimes. That's the broncos, the NRL will die before they'd allow the Broncos to be

*checks notes*

third last.

(OF course its a no try 9/10 times for the Broncos! haha. What are the NRL doing for the Broncos that they arent doing for the **** roosters ****!)
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;

User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 128159
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by greeneyed » July 5, 2019, 10:38 pm

Here’s a story I was taught a long time ago.

A man went to the park and he saw a swan swimming in a pond and it was white. “All swans must be white,” he said.

He then saw a second swan and it was white. “All swans are white,” he concluded.

Stats and Logic 101. A single observation, two, doesn’t prove anything. Anyone who understands statistical analysis understands this.

The end.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Image

User avatar
Dr Zaius
Laurie Daley
Posts: 19647
Joined: April 15, 2007, 11:03 am
Location: Queensland somewhere

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Dr Zaius » July 5, 2019, 10:39 pm

The Rickman wrote:
greeneyed wrote:
July 5, 2019, 3:53 pm
The Rickman wrote:So it's only unrecognised bias if the officials make a mistake in favour of *checks notes*… the roosters, storm or broncos??

Everything else is just a mistake?
You’re being silly now. Unrecognised bias doesn’t rule out the possibility of incorrect decisions being made against star teams or athletes. Overall however, the star teams and athletes receive more favoured treatment in officiating.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ok, so let me get this right. Just bear with me...

When the dragons player failed to get to his feet to play the ball and they scored a try that's NOT unrecognised bias, but when the storm players dragged a dragons player into the in goal it IS unrecognised bias… correct??
There's pretty good evidence that influences on officials effect sports results. There is a Freakonomics podcast that explores it. I'm not sure that it is at the level that Fergus sees it as, but your complete denial of its existence is as extreme as you perceive his belief in its existence to be. I'd say that it is juvenile and beneath you, but you seem to carry on about a lot of stuff of late.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

RIP Greenbits: 2007-2014

gergreg
Steve Walters
Posts: 7407
Joined: June 24, 2008, 4:22 pm

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by gergreg » July 5, 2019, 10:44 pm

PigRickman wrote:
gergreg wrote:
July 5, 2019, 10:27 pm
PigRickman wrote:
gergreg wrote:
July 5, 2019, 9:14 pm
PigRickman wrote:Cant believe the call the roosters just got. Unrecognised bais in play
A better way to think about it is, if that's a Raiders player 9 out of 10 times it's declared a no-try.

Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk
It's 9/10 a no try for EVERY **** club, Gerg! haha
Except against the roosters, who the refs and NRL obvious target... wait, what?
Is it a no-try 9/10 times for the Broncos?

Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk
Of course not, the NRL would never allow such a prestigous club to be subject to such horrific crimes. That's the broncos, the NRL will die before they'd allow the Broncos to be

*checks notes*

third last.

(OF course its a no try 9/10 times for the Broncos! haha. What are the NRL doing for the Broncos that they arent doing for the **** roosters ****!)
You can't possibly watch the NRL over many years (which I know you have) and not recognise that the Broncos receive favourable treatment from referees. You're so hung up on ridiculing GE over this that you're turning a blind eye to it. What the hell is this #penaltybroncos then?

Edit... The fact the Broncos are having a **** year has absolutely nothing to do with this. Did you see last week's game? The refs did everything in their power to push the Broncos over the line but they were truly awful.

Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk


Last edited by gergreg on July 5, 2019, 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Shoving it in your face since 2017

User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 26197
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Nick Cotric

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Botman » July 5, 2019, 10:46 pm

greeneyed wrote:
July 5, 2019, 10:38 pm
Here’s a story I was taught a long time ago.

A man went to the park and he saw a swan swimming in a pond and it was white. “All swans must be white,” he said.

He then saw a second swan and it was white. “All swans are white,” he concluded.

Stats and Logic 101. A single observation, two, doesn’t prove anything. Anyone who understands statistical analysis understands this.

The end.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Very well said. You should reflect on this tonight.
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;

User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 128159
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by greeneyed » July 5, 2019, 11:02 pm

PigRickman wrote:
July 5, 2019, 10:46 pm
greeneyed wrote:
July 5, 2019, 10:38 pm
Here’s a story I was taught a long time ago.

A man went to the park and he saw a swan swimming in a pond and it was white. “All swans must be white,” he said.

He then saw a second swan and it was white. “All swans are white,” he concluded.

Stats and Logic 101. A single observation, two, doesn’t prove anything. Anyone who understands statistical analysis understands this.

The end.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Very well said. You should reflect on this tonight.
I don’t need to do the reflecting. Studies on unrecognised bias reach conclusions on the basis of many, many observations.

The discovery of one black swan might prove the contention that “all swans are white” on the basis of two observations to be incorrect.

The studies on unrecognised bias in sports officiating are based on very large numbers of observations and there are very many of these studies. That’s why there is a scientific consensus that unrecognised bias in sports officiating is an issue. They take into account the errors and outliers being seized upon by two Nicks. However, if they don’t know better, they should... if they are indeed statistical experts.

It’s a lot like those denying the evidence on climate change. They seize on a single piece of contrary evidence, but ignore the vast bulk of scientific analysis.
Image

User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 26197
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Nick Cotric

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Botman » July 5, 2019, 11:04 pm

Remind me again about the main factors that relate to this again?

Leading teams? Home field advantage? Perceieved good team vs bad team? "Superstar" calls?
No? That about covers it?
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;

User avatar
-TW-
Mal Meninga
Posts: 30746
Joined: July 2, 2007, 11:41 am

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by -TW- » July 5, 2019, 11:12 pm

Firstly: Unrecognised bias isn't even a thing, it's unconscious bias

Secondly: reveal your sources, let's do some peer review

Sent from my CPH1831 using Tapatalk


User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 128159
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by greeneyed » July 5, 2019, 11:16 pm

-TW- wrote:
July 5, 2019, 11:12 pm
Firstly: Unrecognised bias isn't even a thing, it's unconscious bias

Secondly: reveal your sources, let's do some peer review

Sent from my CPH1831 using Tapatalk
It’s the same thing, different terms used interchangeably. The reason people have started to use the term unrecognised bias is this: if you recognise your unconscious biases, you can actually do something about it. You can become conscious of them and aim to correct them. Something the NRL referees would do well to learn about.

I’ve written about it before and quoted lots of sources to academic journals. As if there hasn’t been actual academic peer review.
Image

User avatar
The Greenhouse
Don Furner
Posts: 3670
Joined: July 11, 2018, 6:57 am

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by The Greenhouse » July 5, 2019, 11:55 pm

Keary stars in return as Roosters overpower Tigers



Luke Keary has made a successful return from a six-week layoff and Latrell Mitchell was the big beneficiary as the Sydney Roosters survived a scare before beating Wests Tigers 24-16 at Western Sydney Stadium on Friday night.

Read more: https://www.nrl.com/news/2019/07/05/roo ... -road-win/





Did refs dud Tigers twice in build-up to Luke Keary’s miracle pass to Daniel Tupou? https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-pr ... 55357792eb
The Greenhouse score update service

The Nickman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 44466
Joined: June 25, 2012, 9:53 am
Favourite Player: Hodgo
Location: Rockhampton, Central Queensland

2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by The Nickman » July 6, 2019, 6:41 am

Dr Zaius wrote:
The Rickman wrote: Ok, so let me get this right. Just bear with me...

When the dragons player failed to get to his feet to play the ball and they scored a try that's NOT unrecognised bias, but when the storm players dragged a dragons player into the in goal it IS unrecognised bias… correct??
There's pretty good evidence that influences on officials effect sports results. There is a Freakonomics podcast that explores it. I'm not sure that it is at the level that Fergus sees it as, but your complete denial of its existence is as extreme as you perceive his belief in its existence to be. I'd say that it is juvenile and beneath you, but you seem to carry on about a lot of stuff of late.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
Ok, so this is where you’re wrong, I (and I’m pretty sure the “other” Nick too) don’t deny the “complete existence” of unrecognised bias in sports, in fact I’ve already said on several occasions that there’s issues there, the big one being home ground advantage having an impact on the referees, as well as more annoying things such as “square ups” in the penalty count, you’d have to be a complete fool to suggest those things don’t occur. Home ground fans DEFINITELY sway the referee, in fact I’ve seen packed houses in Canberra do that very thing! And the evening up of the penalty count happens almost every single game, something many of us on here have long lamented as frustrating to watch.

The broncos have the best stadium in rugby league, they have by far the biggest attendance on a week to week basis, and hence the loudest fan base. So of COURSE they get most of the calls when they’re at home (and hot tip Ferg, our beloved Queensland benefits from the same advantage at Lang Park, only magnified). And people have spent the last two decades watching the broncos every second Friday night getting call after call at home and that’s where the “penalty broncos” meme surfaced from.

But they shouldn’t be alone there! We have a home ground too, our fans are capable of being rowdy as well, and we HAVE seen them influence the referees, in fact every team in the NRL enjoys a varying level of success at home and that is largely due to unconscious bias. It’s a thing, nobody’s denying it’s a thing, in fact it’s ludicrous to suggest that’s what we’re denying here in this ongoing and often quite tedious “debate”.

But what we ARE denying here is this absurd perception by guys like Fergus and gangrenous that the NRL is somehow out to get the raiders, that we get ripped off more by the officials than any other team in the NRL, that there’s somehow a concerted effort by the “man” to keep us down (which strangely is more prevalent in years where we’re struggling, but magically vanishes when we’re playing well as a team). And now you throw into the debate gangrenous’ ridiculous assertion that because he can remember off the top of his head four “howlers” (howler seeming to be the definition gangrenous gives to any decision that goes against the raiders and doesn’t equally apply to teams such as the roosters) that have gone against the raiders and demands us to prove otherwise. But hot tip: we all are huge raiders fans, and guys like gangrenous and Fergus obsess so much over every refereeing decision, so of COURSE they remember the perceived howlers that occur against us, but immediately dismiss incorrect calls in our favour as “just good luck”.

You’ll find fans of every team carrying around in their memory evidence of occasions where their team was “ripped off” by the referees, I’m surrounded by Cowboys fans up here, they’re CONVINCED the refs screw the cowboys on a week to week basis, and Queensland doesn’t lose an Origin without it being the “refs’ fault” in circles that I drink in. But absolutely NOBODY (myself, the other Nick, Fergus and gangrenous included) carries around in their memories times when they “got lucky” with the referees, you just don’t do it!

As evidence of this, go to the raiders v sharks game from a few weeks ago on LU. The last few pages are just salty sharks fans blowing up about the referees and why Jarrod Croker wasn’t sin binned towards the end of the game and how it cost them the two points in a game they were “definitely” going to win. They’re carrying on like a real bunch of gangrenouses.

And in this VERY thread, Fergus points out a wrong decision against the Storm in the act of a try being scored, no less. That’s HUGE. Then when a decision goes FOR the Storm, he straight up points that one as unconscious bias. Because it went the way of the storm. I point this out to him to prove his hypocrisy and I’M the one being silly? Come on now.

In closing, you’re all **** nuts. Unconscious bias DOES exist, but the raiders benefit from it as much as any other team in the NRL, although teams such as the broncos and Queensland have a much stronger homer advantage than other teams.
Last edited by The Nickman on July 6, 2019, 6:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
Image
2012 Golden Boogs Newbie of the Year
2013 'Nella Awards Best Punter
2013 Boogs Thread of the Year ~ The Betting Thread
2014 Boogs Matthew Elliott Award Winner
2014 Boogs some award with Hanbush

User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 128159
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by greeneyed » July 6, 2019, 6:46 am

I’m having a laugh at the idea that individual decisions can be pointed to as unconscious bias. But that’s what you guys keep bringing up, over and over.
Image

The Nickman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 44466
Joined: June 25, 2012, 9:53 am
Favourite Player: Hodgo
Location: Rockhampton, Central Queensland

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by The Nickman » July 6, 2019, 7:02 am

greeneyed wrote:I’m having a laugh at the idea that individual decisions can be pointed to as unconscious bias. But that’s what you guys keep bringing up, over and over.
Well considering your partner in crime gangrenous is hanging his whole hat on “individual decisions” being the proof against the raiders copping a fair go it gets quite hard to debate you both simultaneously

You have the same argument, but from completely different angles
Image
2012 Golden Boogs Newbie of the Year
2013 'Nella Awards Best Punter
2013 Boogs Thread of the Year ~ The Betting Thread
2014 Boogs Matthew Elliott Award Winner
2014 Boogs some award with Hanbush

gergreg
Steve Walters
Posts: 7407
Joined: June 24, 2008, 4:22 pm

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by gergreg » July 6, 2019, 7:34 am

The Rickman wrote:
Dr Zaius wrote:
The Rickman wrote: Ok, so let me get this right. Just bear with me...

When the dragons player failed to get to his feet to play the ball and they scored a try that's NOT unrecognised bias, but when the storm players dragged a dragons player into the in goal it IS unrecognised bias… correct??
There's pretty good evidence that influences on officials effect sports results. There is a Freakonomics podcast that explores it. I'm not sure that it is at the level that Fergus sees it as, but your complete denial of its existence is as extreme as you perceive his belief in its existence to be. I'd say that it is juvenile and beneath you, but you seem to carry on about a lot of stuff of late.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
Ok, so this is where you’re wrong, I (and I’m pretty sure the “other” Nick too) don’t deny the “complete existence” of unrecognised bias in sports, in fact I’ve already said on several occasions that there’s issues there, the big one being home ground advantage having an impact on the referees, as well as more annoying things such as “square ups” in the penalty count, you’d have to be a complete fool to suggest those things don’t occur. Home ground fans DEFINITELY sway the referee, in fact I’ve seen packed houses in Canberra do that very thing! And the evening up of the penalty count happens almost every single game, something many of us on here have long lamented as frustrating to watch.

The broncos have the best stadium in rugby league, they have by far the biggest attendance on a week to week basis, and hence the loudest fan base. So of COURSE they get most of the calls when they’re at home (and hot tip Ferg, our beloved Queensland benefits from the same advantage at Lang Park, only magnified). And people have spent the last two decades watching the broncos every second Friday night getting call after call at home and that’s where the “penalty broncos” meme surfaced from.

But they shouldn’t be alone there! We have a home ground too, our fans are capable of being rowdy as well, and we HAVE seen them influence the referees, in fact every team in the NRL enjoys a varying level of success at home and that is largely due to unconscious bias. It’s a thing, nobody’s denying it’s a thing, in fact it’s ludicrous to suggest that’s what we’re denying here in this ongoing and often quite tedious “debate”.

But what we ARE denying here is this absurd perception by guys like Fergus and gangrenous that the NRL is somehow out to get the raiders, that we get ripped off more by the officials than any other team in the NRL, that there’s somehow a concerted effort by the “man” to keep us down (which strangely is more prevalent in years where we’re struggling, but magically vanishes when we’re playing well as a team). And now you throw into the debate gangrenous’ ridiculous assertion that because he can remember off the top of his head four “howlers” (howler seeming to be the definition gangrenous gives to any decision that goes against the raiders and doesn’t equally apply to teams such as the roosters) that have gone against the raiders and demands us to prove otherwise. But hot tip: we all are huge raiders fans, and guys like gangrenous and Fergus obsess so much over every refereeing decision, so of COURSE they remember the perceived howlers that occur against us, but immediately dismiss incorrect calls in our favour as “just good luck”.

You’ll find fans of every team carrying around in their memory evidence of occasions where their team was “ripped off” by the referees, I’m surrounded by Cowboys fans up here, they’re CONVINCED the refs screw the cowboys on a week to week basis, and Queensland doesn’t lose an Origin without it being the “refs’ fault” in circles that I drink in. But absolutely NOBODY (myself, the other Nick, Fergus and gangrenous included) carries around in their memories times when they “got lucky” with the referees, you just don’t do it!

As evidence of this, go to the raiders v sharks game from a few weeks ago on LU. The last few pages are just salty sharks fans blowing up about the referees and why Jarrod Croker wasn’t sin binned towards the end of the game and how it cost them the two points in a game they were “definitely” going to win. They’re carrying on like a real bunch of gangrenouses.

And in this VERY thread, Fergus points out a wrong decision against the Storm in the act of a try being scored, no less. That’s HUGE. Then when a decision goes FOR the Storm, he straight up points that one as unconscious bias. Because it went the way of the storm. I point this out to him to prove his hypocrisy and I’M the one being silly? Come on now.

In closing, you’re all **** nuts. Unconscious bias DOES exist, but the raiders benefit from it as much as any other team in the NRL, although teams such as the broncos and Queensland have a much stronger homer advantage than other teams.
Mostly fair points but the penaltybroncos thing has come about and it's difficult to accept it's purely a home ground advantage issue when they consistently receive favourable treatment from referees when playing away. They won the penalty count 14 - 7 in Newcastle last week. Last year they were gifted at least two games with blatantly favourable decisions and were..... sorry let me plagiarise some terminology .... *checks notes* were genuine howlers (Tigers and Bulldogs) and if my memory is correct both were in Sydney. #penaltybroncos has absolutely nothing to do with home ground advantage and everything to do with favourable treatment in all facets of the club/game.

Every club has howlers go against them but I think it does go against some clubs more than others.

I struggle to think of many going against the Broncos. There was one a few years ago where I think Gillett was called offside after a 50 metre kick was put in or something similar - and was a completely wrong call, but can you actually think of many others? I'm sure that you can say there are people claiming at Broncos HQ that they have been hard done by in certain games but I think part of that is a result of having 50/50 calls go their way more often than not.

Sent from my SM-G570F using Tapatalk

Shoving it in your face since 2017

User avatar
gangrenous
Laurie Daley
Posts: 10159
Joined: May 12, 2007, 10:42 pm

2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by gangrenous » July 6, 2019, 10:37 am

The Rickman wrote:
greeneyed wrote:I’m having a laugh at the idea that individual decisions can be pointed to as unconscious bias. But that’s what you guys keep bringing up, over and over.
Well considering your partner in crime gangrenous is hanging his whole hat on “individual decisions” being the proof against the raiders copping a fair go it gets quite hard to debate you both simultaneously

You have the same argument, but from completely different angles
I have explained my argument before. It’s not my fault you are too lazy or dense to understand it.

My opinion is based on decades of watching Rugby League and other sports (don’t hold the same opinion for teams I support in other sports). I am fully conscious I am biased towards the Raiders. Even accounting for my bias though, I am still of the opinion that the Raiders are not refereed in the same fashion as their opponents.

Now to prove this obviously we want a detailed statistical analysis, and even better peer reviewed articles. That doesn’t exist for this debate and no one has the time to do so to win an argument on an Internet forum.

Also even if it were done, the results wouldn’t be accepted. We would quibble over what is and is not a correct decision. That is evidenced by pigman’s “howler” of a line ball pass (I’d suggest pigman does not recognise his bias towards arguing for our opponents in his quest to appear unbiased). I note no one did come out and say they agreed it was a howler. Happy to put that to a poll if you like.

So my proposal was instead of a full statistical analysis, we do a sampling at the extreme ends of the decisions where there is less debate about whether the decision is right or wrong. If the Raiders do receive more poorer decisions on average, we expect that to show up as a higher frequency in the tails.

So I put forward a quick list of 4 terrible decisions against the Raiders from the last year. You haven’t disputed those, so I take it you accept they were all very wrong. Yet you seem to have struggled to highlight similar absolutely wrong significant calls against the Raiders. I am willing to accept that I’m more focussed on mistakes against the Raiders, I haven’t proven that there were none against the Raiders. But without showing any evidence to the contrary I don’t think you’re in a position to ridicule my stance. We have had the NRL apologise to the Raiders on a number of occasions in the last few years. You can use that to define howlers if you like. I asked whether our opponents have been apologised to over the last few years? I don’t recall it happening.

I also noted that the Raiders have had 11 games with one player sin binned versus their opponents 5 since 2015. Nick can help me out with the stats, but by my calculations there’s an 88% confidence in different means there. So likely the Raiders are more ill disciplined, sin binned more readily by the referees or a combination of both.

So in a nutshell, I’m fully aware of the shortfalls of the evidence I provide. My full opinion is based off far more data (my viewing). Yet since you are unable to provide full evidence of your own, or even present some clear counters to the sampling examples, I’d suggest you could be one hell of a lot more respectful in your discourse. Particularly in misrepresenting my arguments as things as stupid as our opponents never receive poor decisions. Or trying to distract by going to even murkier waters about whether it cost them the game.


User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 26197
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Nick Cotric

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Botman » July 6, 2019, 10:40 am

Once you've done the poll on the GH on a forward pass call against the Raiders, we can put that to bed, and then we can work on climate change, we'll begin by polling LNP sitting members on it's existence.
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;

User avatar
gangrenous
Laurie Daley
Posts: 10159
Joined: May 12, 2007, 10:42 pm

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by gangrenous » July 6, 2019, 10:44 am

You can poll independents if you like. I’m not fussed.

User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 26197
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Nick Cotric

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Botman » July 6, 2019, 10:54 am

The Rickman wrote:
July 6, 2019, 6:41 am
Dr Zaius wrote:
The Rickman wrote: Ok, so let me get this right. Just bear with me...

When the dragons player failed to get to his feet to play the ball and they scored a try that's NOT unrecognised bias, but when the storm players dragged a dragons player into the in goal it IS unrecognised bias… correct??
There's pretty good evidence that influences on officials effect sports results. There is a Freakonomics podcast that explores it. I'm not sure that it is at the level that Fergus sees it as, but your complete denial of its existence is as extreme as you perceive his belief in its existence to be. I'd say that it is juvenile and beneath you, but you seem to carry on about a lot of stuff of late.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
Ok, so this is where you’re wrong, I (and I’m pretty sure the “other” Nick too) don’t deny the “complete existence” of unrecognised bias in sports, in fact I’ve already said on several occasions that there’s issues there, the big one being home ground advantage having an impact on the referees, as well as more annoying things such as “square ups” in the penalty count, you’d have to be a complete fool to suggest those things don’t occur. Home ground fans DEFINITELY sway the referee, in fact I’ve seen packed houses in Canberra do that very thing! And the evening up of the penalty count happens almost every single game, something many of us on here have long lamented as frustrating to watch.

The broncos have the best stadium in rugby league, they have by far the biggest attendance on a week to week basis, and hence the loudest fan base. So of COURSE they get most of the calls when they’re at home (and hot tip Ferg, our beloved Queensland benefits from the same advantage at Lang Park, only magnified). And people have spent the last two decades watching the broncos every second Friday night getting call after call at home and that’s where the “penalty broncos” meme surfaced from.

But they shouldn’t be alone there! We have a home ground too, our fans are capable of being rowdy as well, and we HAVE seen them influence the referees, in fact every team in the NRL enjoys a varying level of success at home and that is largely due to unconscious bias. It’s a thing, nobody’s denying it’s a thing, in fact it’s ludicrous to suggest that’s what we’re denying here in this ongoing and often quite tedious “debate”.

But what we ARE denying here is this absurd perception by guys like Fergus and gangrenous that the NRL is somehow out to get the raiders, that we get ripped off more by the officials than any other team in the NRL, that there’s somehow a concerted effort by the “man” to keep us down (which strangely is more prevalent in years where we’re struggling, but magically vanishes when we’re playing well as a team). And now you throw into the debate gangrenous’ ridiculous assertion that because he can remember off the top of his head four “howlers” (howler seeming to be the definition gangrenous gives to any decision that goes against the raiders and doesn’t equally apply to teams such as the roosters) that have gone against the raiders and demands us to prove otherwise. But hot tip: we all are huge raiders fans, and guys like gangrenous and Fergus obsess so much over every refereeing decision, so of COURSE they remember the perceived howlers that occur against us, but immediately dismiss incorrect calls in our favour as “just good luck”.

You’ll find fans of every team carrying around in their memory evidence of occasions where their team was “ripped off” by the referees, I’m surrounded by Cowboys fans up here, they’re CONVINCED the refs screw the cowboys on a week to week basis, and Queensland doesn’t lose an Origin without it being the “refs’ fault” in circles that I drink in. But absolutely NOBODY (myself, the other Nick, Fergus and gangrenous included) carries around in their memories times when they “got lucky” with the referees, you just don’t do it!

As evidence of this, go to the raiders v sharks game from a few weeks ago on LU. The last few pages are just salty sharks fans blowing up about the referees and why Jarrod Croker wasn’t sin binned towards the end of the game and how it cost them the two points in a game they were “definitely” going to win. They’re carrying on like a real bunch of gangrenouses.

And in this VERY thread, Fergus points out a wrong decision against the Storm in the act of a try being scored, no less. That’s HUGE. Then when a decision goes FOR the Storm, he straight up points that one as unconscious bias. Because it went the way of the storm. I point this out to him to prove his hypocrisy and I’M the one being silly? Come on now.

In closing, you’re all **** nuts. Unconscious bias DOES exist, but the raiders benefit from it as much as any other team in the NRL, although teams such as the broncos and Queensland have a much stronger homer advantage than other teams.
1000% spot on
No one has ever said unconscious bias doesnt exisit, the forms in which it is proven, such as home field advantage, which is by far the clearest and best example, is equally applied to us as it is to any other team. We play home games too! The same amount as basically every other club!

as is being percieved as the better team. No one stops us from being good except us, and when we're good, as we are this year, we get that bias! When we are a bad football team, with low talent and bad coaching and we get the back end of that bias, that's on US! Not them.
As said, the penalty squares up and all that other junk. Unconscious bias, means exactly that. It's unconscious. It's done without thinking or planning, which means, guess what? WE GET THAT TOO! :roflmao
Star players get calls. We have a pack full of internationals, one of greatest point scorers in the games history, who WON the proven summons award a few years ago, and captain of the year.
We have a NRL rookie of the year, teenage darling SOO Rep, we have QLD stalwart and walk up Australian rep, we have the best winger in the world
We get superstar calls too! Croker, Hodgson, Elliott get away with a lot and earn way more penalties than they deserve.

When you say the raiders get refereed differently, that's not unconscious bias. That's accusing the NRL of very consciously disadvantaging. Which is, tin foil hat Bull. And is utterly unsupported by any evidence what so ever.
Unconscious bias exists and we are subjected to the swings and roundabouts of that just as everyone else is.
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;

User avatar
Botman
Mal Meninga
Posts: 26197
Joined: June 18, 2013, 4:31 pm
Favourite Player: Nick Cotric

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by Botman » July 6, 2019, 10:55 am

gangrenous wrote:
July 6, 2019, 10:44 am
You can poll independents if you like. I’m not fussed.
:lol: I cant beleive im having to repeat myself
IM NOT YOUR RESEARCH ASSISTANT! haha

Do your own **** homework, you lazy **** prick! :lol:
CREATE PROCEDURE BotMan_Post AS
SELECT * FROM Previous_Post
EXEC quote_post
WHERE UserName = 'Aknalkfgnaa' OR 'Yeah Raiders' OR 'Billy B'
EXEC RAND(good_grief; cheak_notes; uh82cit;)

GO;

User avatar
gangrenous
Laurie Daley
Posts: 10159
Joined: May 12, 2007, 10:42 pm

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by gangrenous » July 6, 2019, 10:57 am

PigRickman wrote:
gangrenous wrote:
July 6, 2019, 10:44 am
You can poll independents if you like. I’m not fussed.
:lol: I cant beleive im having to repeat myself
IM NOT YOUR RESEARCH ASSISTANT! haha

Do your own **** homework, you lazy **** prick! :lol:
I’m not saying you have to.

What I am saying is that unless you are willing to prove your argument you should lay off being a self-righteous ****.

User avatar
gangrenous
Laurie Daley
Posts: 10159
Joined: May 12, 2007, 10:42 pm

2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by gangrenous » July 6, 2019, 11:01 am

PigRickman wrote: When you say the raiders get refereed differently, that's not unconscious bias. That's accusing the NRL of very consciously disadvantaging.
No it isn’t. Remove the Raiders from it so you lose the red mist in yours eyes.

If you accept that star players receive unconscious bias. The outcome of that is that they were - refereed differently.

User avatar
greeneyed
Don Furner
Posts: 128159
Joined: January 7, 2005, 4:21 pm

Re: 2019 NRL Round 16 - Teams and Game Day

Post by greeneyed » July 6, 2019, 11:32 am

PigRickman wrote:
July 6, 2019, 10:54 am
Unconscious bias exists and we are subjected to the swings and roundabouts of that just as everyone else is.
In short, you accepting it exists, but then denying it.

The Flat Earth Society called earlier... they have a campaign they'd like you to join! They think you're ideal!
Image

Post Reply