Cronulla Sharks 2018

[nachopants]

Perth Swans.

[Sid]

Transfer the licence to Perth. Western Sharks. Play some games in Adelaide.

The Sharks playing home games at the Great Australian Bight.. I think you're onto something

Think Cronulla Sharks should **** right off though, it's not a brand that warrants being held on to.
1 premiership in 55 years and no sponsorship because they're continually in the headlines for the wrong reasons.
Start fresh.

Still think it should be Western Tigers in Perth though

[gerg]

I'm not convinced relocation works.

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[greeneyed]

OK, revoke their NRL licence. Allow them to play in the NSW Premiership. Wests Tigers to Perth, second new team in Brisbane.

[Sid]

OK, revoke their NRL licence. Allow them to play in the NSW Premiership. Wests Tigers to Perth, second new team in Brisbane.

perfect

[The Nickman]

Transfer the licence to Perth. Western Sharks. Play some games in Adelaide.

Nah, **** that. Give them their own identity and burn the Sharks to the ground.

There's no Bears or Jets anymore, why do we need Sharks??

[dubby]

Send them packing. Off to Perth or Adelaide.

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[gerg]

I don't know that the NRL in its current state can afford to piss off an entire fan base like some of you are suggesting. He did the wrong thing as did the club and they've been punished for it. Killing off the team is the very definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

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[greeneyed]

They're going to the wall anyway.

[FuiFui BradBrad]

What do they offer in terms of exposure? GE always offers great insight into the ratings, and how they don’t warrant putting a team on the Central Coast.
How does Cronulla stack up against Central Coast in terms of viewership, juniors etc?


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[gerg]

They're going to the wall anyway.

How's the Knights, Titans and Dragons going? Still being bailed out by the NRL? Though I might have read that Titans have been bought?

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[Botman]

Yeah i dont think relocations or joint venture stuff works really

If the Sharks are going to fold, let em... the NRL needs to cut clubs in sydney and expand out. Let them die a natural death, make sure Perth is ready to go.

[greeneyed]

What do they offer in terms of exposure? GE always offers great insight into the ratings, and how they don’t warrant putting a team on the Central Coast.
How does Cronulla stack up against Central Coast in terms of viewership, juniors etc?


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They don't stack up as an NRL franchise, really. Cronulla is an "island" between the two "territories" of the Dragons. And they're a small island. There is no real scope for growth in support. There are only 220,000 people in the Sutherland Shire and 18,000 in Cronulla itself. On average, you'd expect teams in Sydney to have a population base of about 500,000.

They have traditionally been given very few games on FTA TV, though they will have 11 in 2019. They appeared four times in 2016 on FTA TV. I don't see that lasting, but one advantage they have is that they are in the Nine Sydney TV market, while the Dragons audience is split between Sydney and Wollongong TV markets.

The fact the Sharks are in the Sydney TV market is probably their only advantage compared to the Central Coast. The Central Coast doesn't stack up as a NRL franchise either. The Sharks survive as they've already got a licence.

Their juniors have actually been performing well... and you have to give credit to the Sharks for that. They have 16 junior teams, which is good compared to, say, the Roosters (four). But they're clearly outstripped by the western Sydney teams like the Eels and Panthers. And basically, with that population base, they're not going to grow a lot.

The biggest problem for the Sharks is finances. They have staved off financial crisis by selling the ground around their stadium for residential tower developments (with commercial) but that risks liquidating assets (not sure what the long term returns are under the deals though). Their current cash flow problems are happening as that other income flow is reportedly not there, at the moment at least. They own their own ground and the leagues club, co-located, but they are ageing assets. The ground is one of the poorest in the NRL.

It's not a good long term outlook for them.

[greeneyed]

They're going to the wall anyway.

How's the Knights, Titans and Dragons going? Still being bailed out by the NRL? Though I might have read that Titans have been bought?

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The NRL has made clear, there are no more bail outs. A lot of money has been wasted under previous NRL administrations on bail outs. The Knights have been sold off, essentially to Wests in Newcastle, the biggest leagues club. The Titans have been sold. Not sure if the Dragons have paid off their debts, nor Wests Tigers... but there's no more money for any of them.

[greeneyed]

Why NRL had no choice but to ban Sharks coach Shane Flanagan

After nine months of his ban for drug cheating, Shane Flanagan insisted he had done everything required of him. However, it did not match with what Flanagan was actually doing.

"I have not had any involvement in the recruitment process for the potential players during my period of suspension. At all times I have sought to respect and satisfy the conditions of my suspension and I don’t believe I have engaged in any conduct that would give rise to a finding that I failed to satisfy this condition."

Read more: https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/why-nr ... 50n8d.html

Cronulla 'can win the premiership next year': https://www.canberratimes.com.au/sport/ ... 50n8p.html

[greeneyed]

That story... just highlights how Flanagan should have been booted out of the game much earlier. What a terrible culture generated at the Sharks. What a blight on the game they have been. Very fortunate not to have had the premiership stripped.

[Postman Pat]

Don’t lump us Perth citizens with the Sharks, there not welcome.


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[Raiders666]

Not hard to be a good coach when the club has blatantly cheated for 5 years...

[dubby]

Players given illegal supplements, cheating the salary cap, breaching NRL notices, financially destitute, no major sponsor, senior players speaking inappropriately on a podcast....

What a fantastic club

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[dubby]

.

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[gerg]

What are we encouraging here? Should all teams learn to cheat better like a few seem to do? Is that what we really want from our sport? Manly, Eels and now Sharks and Tigers facing the full brunt of the NRL. 3 of the 4 sides propping up the bottom of the ladder for the past few years (some even longer). Fans now laying the boot in too. It's pathetic honestly.

You've got 2 sides with access to an extra million on salaries for players, and no surprise those 2 sides are 2 of the most successful in the competition and have been for a long time. And that is only what is declared. If these other less successful teams are cheating and haven't tasted any consistent success then what the hell are the successful sides doing that the NRL don't know about.

What Flanagan did was wrong. He was punished for it, didn't abide by the terms of his punishment and is now being punished again. Fair enough.

The NRL is **** pathetic for constantly going at these soft targets. Why don't they actually grow a set and do a full (independent) audit of every club, confiscating hard drives? I'll answer my own question. They don't want to because of what they will find. Every team will be found to be in breach of something. It's the same

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As when they went after the player managers involved in the storm salary cap incident. They threatened to expose what was really going on and the NRL buckled.

[Northern Raider]

I agree to some extent gg. Your comment can't really go by without acknowledging the Storm got busted big time and very heavily punished. Not other team in the history of the comp has been forced to go a full season playing for zero points. They were also quite rightly stripped of their premierships. Obviously not a punishment you can apply to Eels and Tigers.

You are spot on about the lack of effort put into the quesitonable practices of the Broncos. Even when there was a smoking gun (Andrew Gee scenario) the NRL simply let it slide.

Of course none of this should distract from the extended list of breaches by the Sharks in recent times. Deserves everything thats coming to them. Its just fortunate that their alleged cap breaches occurred either side of their premiership year. Wow, lucky they were towing the line that year.

[gerg]

I've got no issues with any side being punished for cheating, what annoys me is that it is so obvious that all clubs are doing it. But until such time as there is a disgruntled employee or somebody from outside the inner sanctum scrutinising the books nothing gets found. The NRL is currently rewarding teams for cheating and cheating well and punishing teams for cheating poorly. Is that a good way to run a competition?

It's like punishing a child for stealing a lollipop but continuing to leave the lollipop jar within reach. They'll just be sneakier the next time.

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[Northern Raider]

I've got no issues with any side being punished for cheating, what annoys me is that it is so obvious that all clubs are doing it. But until such time as there is a disgruntled employee or somebody from outside the inner sanctum scrutinising the books nothing gets found. The NRL is currently rewarding teams for cheating and cheating well and punishing teams for cheating poorly. Is that a good way to run a competition?

It's like punishing a child for stealing a lollipop but continuing to leave the lollipop jar within reach. They'll just be sneakier the next time.

This is true. Unfortunately the NRL has created a rod for it's own back by exempting 3rd party payments from the cap. Clubs are presented the opportunity to exploit this loophole. Get rid of these loopholes and the ability to monitor will be far less convoluted.

[dubby]

How do we fix it?

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[gerg]

The NRL pays players salary already through club grants. Remove the middle man (clubs) from the 'financial transaction' process. Clubs maintain the negotiation process and once a deal with a player is finalised they notify the NRL and the NRL pays the player/player manager.

Make it mandatory for any club (and by extension players) that wants a licence in the competition that all their financial dealings (including league's clubs) are auditable/open to the NRL. Conduct random audits of players and family members in conjunction with the ATO. Publish player salaries. Punish teams and players for breaking the rules. Scrap TPAs.


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[RTW]

Sharks have received $1.5million from a benefactor. Which will keep them afloat until the cashflow from developing the next stage of land around the ground kicks in.


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[Northern Raider]

The NRL pays players salary already through club grants. Remove the middle man (clubs) from the 'financial transaction' process. Clubs maintain the negotiation process and once a deal with a player is finalised they notify the NRL and the NRL pays the player/player manager.

Make it mandatory for any club (and by extension players) that wants a licence in the competition that all their financial dealings (including league's clubs) are auditable/open to the NRL. Conduct random audits of players and family members in conjunction with the ATO. Publish player salaries. Punish teams and players for breaking the rules. Scrap TPAs.


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When I first read this I thought "that could never work". The more I think about it the more I believe it could. The NRL is effectively paying the players now so why shouldn't this happend directly? There would still be ways to circumvent the process and direct illegal funds towards the player but it would be a lot harder to do so.

[gerg]

The NRL pays players salary already through club grants. Remove the middle man (clubs) from the 'financial transaction' process. Clubs maintain the negotiation process and once a deal with a player is finalised they notify the NRL and the NRL pays the player/player manager.

Make it mandatory for any club (and by extension players) that wants a licence in the competition that all their financial dealings (including league's clubs) are auditable/open to the NRL. Conduct random audits of players and family members in conjunction with the ATO. Publish player salaries. Punish teams and players for breaking the rules. Scrap TPAs.


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When I first read this I thought "that could never work". The more I think about it the more I believe it could. The NRL is effectively paying the players now so why shouldn't this happend directly? There would still be ways to circumvent the process and direct illegal funds towards the player but it would be a lot harder to do so.

And less grey areas for creative teams to exploit. The clubs have had free rein to do as they please for far too long. This also should apply to rule changes. You give too much power to the coaches whose only interest is their own team instead of doing what is best for the game.

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[Northern Raider]

If all player payments are handled by the NRL then the only way to slip in a bit extra would literally be brown paper bag style.

[gangrenous]

Yep, all TPAs would also have to be lodged and paid through the NRL. Any payments discovered outside the NRL framework come with minimum 2 year suspension.

On the Sharks being over in 2015 and 2017. If you were cheating the cap, surely this is the way to do it right. You agree with the players that they will get the additional payments at the conclusion of the season. If you don’t win the comp, you bang it in this year. If you do win the comp you hold off any payments until after November and then what do you know. You’re fine for your premiership and just over the following year. The NRL have typically shown a much lighter touch on teams that didn’t win, so you also minimise your punishment if you’re caught, and the fans are less up in arms because the team that cheated didn’t win anyway.

If the NRL are serious they should seriously consider stripping premierships in cases where there is cheating either side. Investigating what happened very closely.

[Postman Pat]

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[Dr Zaius]

This is a fascinating article by Roy Masters about the politics at Cronulla that created this mess.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/flanag ... 50nml.html

[Botman]

This is a fascinating article by Roy Masters about the politics at Cronulla that created this mess.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/flanag ... 50nml.html

Thanks for posting.
Really interesting read.

[Schifty]

"The NRL, focused on the peptides scandal, did not fully grasp the implications of this. An Ernst and Young investigation into the Sharks, commissioned by the NRL, did not interview one former Cronulla director, meaning any complaints about Flanagan’s role in acting outside his coaching duties were not canvassed."

That's incredible...