Parramatta Eels 2018

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dubby
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Parramatta Eels 2018

Post by dubby »

Not looking good for Hayne.

I can see why police never charged him. There appears to be not enough evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt.

Balance of probabilities suggest otherwise.

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The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by cat »

and yet the eels nor the NRL feel the need to stand him down ......
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by CJR »

I want to make it very clear before I make my main point that I OBVIOUSLY in no way condone any of the behaviour he is accused of under any circumstances but I will say I am tired of this apparent need to immediately fire or stand down people who are, as of the moment, not convicted of anything at all.


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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by Green eyed Mick »

cat wrote:and yet the eels nor the NRL feel the need to stand him down ......
Next Monday everyone is back at training and this is the biggest story in the game at the moment. They will have to say something soon.
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by gerg »

The Eels and the NRL have in fact released statements on this issue already.

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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by Green eyed Mick »

CJR wrote:I want to make it very clear before I make my main point that I OBVIOUSLY in no way condone any of the behaviour he is accused of under any circumstances but I will say I am tired of this apparent need to immediately fire or stand down people who are, as of the moment, not convicted of anything at all.


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When your personal image is linked to your employer's reputation and income, whether you like it or not there are consequences.

There's also the fact that a lot of people are starting to feel 'innocent until proven guilty' in cases of sexual harassment, assault, domestic abuse and child abuse needs to change because it is failing the victims.
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Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by Botman »

CJR wrote:I want to make it very clear before I make my main point that I OBVIOUSLY in no way condone any of the behaviour he is accused of under any circumstances but I will say I am tired of this apparent need to immediately fire or stand down people who are, as of the moment, not convicted of anything at all.


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That’s probably fair
But it’s sort of part of the deal. You get the fame, fortune and all the perks, but when you screw up, you’re not just jimmy down at the local pub
You’re someone to be made an example of.

That’s the give and take. If the players feel this is too much a price to pay... they’re welcome to explore other avenues for their careers
Last edited by Botman on January 1, 2018, 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by Green eyed Mick »

gergreg wrote:The Eels and the NRL have in fact released statements on this issue already.

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Not to the satisfaction of a lot of people.
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by dubby »

Let's not forget that nothing has been proven yet.

FTR, IMO, it's not looking good for Hayne based on the evidence provided by the plaintiff.

We've yet to be provided with a response from Hayne.

And this is where it gets murky. And uncomfortable.

I see pigmans point. He has a wife and daughter. He is viewing things from that point of view.

I see gergs pov. He's also a dad and husband but he is also remaining impartial, knowing that there is more to this than he knows.

Bloody hell what a mess.

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The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by T_R »

Green eyed Mick wrote:
There's also the fact that a lot of people are starting to feel 'innocent until proven guilty' in cases of sexual harassment, assault, domestic abuse and child abuse needs to change because it is failing the victims.
Well, there's a special kind of stupid.

By the way, GEM touched me up in the bathroom. I can't prove it, but he agrees that he should go to jail.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by gerg »

Green eyed Mick wrote:
gergreg wrote:The Eels and the NRL have in fact released statements on this issue already.

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Not to the satisfaction of a lot of people.
For as many people who aren't satisfied I'd guess there are just as many who feel the NRL can be too reactive to a little media pressure. I could understand the NRL penalising a repeat offender more harshly but Hayne is a relatively clean skin.

Again I go back to the Melbourne Demons player who is under investigation for sexual assault. The AFL has basically shutdown the media on that by stating they will make no further comment on that issue while it is under investigation - the player hasn't even been named. I'd like the NRL to move a little towards this approach rather than allowing the media to have the control.

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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by gerg »

T_R wrote:
Green eyed Mick wrote:
There's also the fact that a lot of people are starting to feel 'innocent until proven guilty' in cases of sexual harassment, assault, domestic abuse and child abuse needs to change because it is failing the victims.
Well, there's a special kind of stupid.

By the way, GEM touched me up in the bathroom. I can't prove it, but he agrees that he should go to jail.
Yeah this kind of goes back to my comments from yesterday where I asked the question of how we change the existing laws to reach a better outcome for victims while maintaining the integrity in the legal process. Nobody has an answer it seems.

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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by T_R »

gergreg wrote:
T_R wrote:
Green eyed Mick wrote:
There's also the fact that a lot of people are starting to feel 'innocent until proven guilty' in cases of sexual harassment, assault, domestic abuse and child abuse needs to change because it is failing the victims.
Well, there's a special kind of stupid.

By the way, GEM touched me up in the bathroom. I can't prove it, but he agrees that he should go to jail.
Yeah this kind of goes back to my comments from yesterday where I asked the question of how we change the existing laws to reach a better outcome for victims while maintaining the integrity in the legal process. Nobody has an answer it seems.

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Well, the Americans would say they have achieved that through a system of civil claims with a lower standard of proof required.

But then some people start saying that claimants are 'just chasing cash', so I guess not.
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You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by cat »

look i can see both sides , and if it was a player with a squeaky clean record such as toots jnr, morris brothers etc I would be happy with the idea of waiting to see what happens with the court case

however when it is a player with a history of troublesome behaviour then I would want them to be stood down

you cant keep flying the white ribbon flag and not follow through IMO

and this is the same guy who did the whole i'm not leaving the titans game then buggered off to the eels
so you cant really say he is a squeaky clean player
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by Green eyed Mick »

It is a mess and the best way to start cleaning it up is for Hayne to properly address the allegations.

Will he or won't he be defending the charges in court? That's what I want to know.
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by gerg »

T_R wrote:
gergreg wrote:
T_R wrote:
Green eyed Mick wrote:
There's also the fact that a lot of people are starting to feel 'innocent until proven guilty' in cases of sexual harassment, assault, domestic abuse and child abuse needs to change because it is failing the victims.
Well, there's a special kind of stupid.

By the way, GEM touched me up in the bathroom. I can't prove it, but he agrees that he should go to jail.
Yeah this kind of goes back to my comments from yesterday where I asked the question of how we change the existing laws to reach a better outcome for victims while maintaining the integrity in the legal process. Nobody has an answer it seems.

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Well, the Americans would say they have achieved that through a system of civil claims with a lower standard of proof required.

But then some people start saying that claimants are 'just chasing cash', so I guess not.
As they love to say in America "It is what it is".

And given you're the legal expert maybe you could interpret, from the 'claim' I linked to last night, whether there was a request in the claim for an apology of sorts (as GEM suggested) or maybe a symbolic $1 claim (As Fui suggested).

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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by T_R »

I don't believe that damages were specified.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by gangrenous »

T_R wrote:
Green eyed Mick wrote:
There's also the fact that a lot of people are starting to feel 'innocent until proven guilty' in cases of sexual harassment, assault, domestic abuse and child abuse needs to change because it is failing the victims.
Well, there's a special kind of stupid.

By the way, GEM touched me up in the bathroom. I can't prove it, but he agrees that he should go to jail.
Not jail T_R, just stood down from posting until the honourable greeneyed makes a ruling in this intriguing case.
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by gerg »

If they were pursuing a symbolic payment of $1 and/or an apology or some sort of acknowledgement I would imagine they would note that. Would they not?

I seem to recall Amber Heard advising early in the piece during her settlement with Johnny Depp that she would be donating all proceeds to a 'violence to women' charity of some description.

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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by T_R »

I dont think its up to us to decide how any settlement should be disbursed.

She will also be paying a legal firm at least 1/3, and they ain't doing the lifting for 30c

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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by Green eyed Mick »

gergreg wrote:If they were pursuing a symbolic payment of $1 and/or an apology or some sort of acknowledgement I would imagine they would note that. Would they not?

I seem to recall Amber Heard advising early in the piece during her settlement with Johnny Depp that she would be donating all proceeds to a 'violence to women' charity of some description.

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The lawyers fees still need to get paid and I would say the woman has incurred some other out of pocket expenses along the way.

Edit. What TR said.
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by gerg »

T_R wrote:I dont think its up to us to decide how any settlement should be disbursed.

She will also be paying a legal firm at least 1/3, and they ain't doing the lifting for 30c

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True. We will probably never know how this incident has impacted her financially. Whether that be her ability to work, short or long term and also any medical expenses she has incurred.

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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by Manbush »

Yep if the claim is true money could help her get on with her life there’s also the fact the higher the payout the more he suffers.
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by Dibbers »

i don't think there's a cut and dry solution to take for the NRL here...

I do think however that more needs to be done about the media... i think if it comes to light that Hayne isn't guilty, then a massive lawsuit for defamation should follow... I think the same should've been done when the cops were called to Fergo's place when some <insert derogatory name here> called the cops saying he'd done something to his kid or left them alone or whatever (I don't like Fergo, but that was a dog move).

The biggest problem is that until these incidents have gone to trial its a shambles. And if the media want to come out and name the player in question outright, then if wrong they need to wear the consequences.

That way there is "an investigation into an incident involving a player" and it gets left at that until there is an outcome
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by gangrenous »

Dibbers wrote:The biggest problem is that until these incidents have gone to trial its a shambles. And if the media want to come out and name the player in question outright, then if wrong they need to wear the consequences.
Wrong how? Wrong that the players have been implicated?
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by cat »

in this case the media is literally reporting facts that are on public display i.e the court documents or repeating facts we already know i.e why he was in America, what he has been doing since then etc

not sure what the problem is.....
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by Dibbers »

It was more a general comment on these types of cases. If there is a cobvern that people are being treated as guilty before a trial, then names should be supressed until a verdict is given...

Im not saying hayne is innocent, but i dont agree that someones career should be ruined simply from being accused of something. If guilty he shouldbt be allowed to play league again, along with DV perps, or any other criminal act for that matter.

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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by Botman »

I’m also struggling to know on what basis the media could be sued for defamation...
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by Postman Pat »

Media outlets are very careful in how they cover these stories, a lot of ‘alleged’ things going on. It’s the only thing they do well tbh.


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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by Manbush »

Dibbers wrote: If guilty he shouldbt be allowed to play league again, along with DV perps, or any other criminal act for that matter.
Any criminal act is going too far.
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by gerg »

I think there needs to be at least some sort of policy with detail on punishment or grades for different offences that is clear, and available to all players and clubs. Maybe they already have developed one?

I don't think there is any defamation with this Hayne case but it's interesting that the AFL clearly have a better relationship with the police and media whereas any time there is a NRL story it is leaked and then overblown (In some cases) by the media.

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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by cat »

I think one of the reasons for the AFL having a better relationship with the media is the way they keep their game separate where as the NRL has chosen to get into bed with certain areas of the media and let them run the game

So the other media outlets want to get in first and report anything and the ones with all the power hold the NRL over a barrel

I'm just not sure we can get the game back now that we have been in bed with the devil for so long
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by LP Raider »

From the fox vision really looks like Jarryd is putting in at training.
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by FuiFui BradBrad »

Parra must have upgraded the locks on the changerooms


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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by LP Raider »

Fuifui Bradbrad wrote:Parra must have upgraded the locks on the changerooms


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May as well have been in the changerooms
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