Parramatta Eels 2017

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gerg
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by gerg »

Interestingly a Melbourne Demons player is currently under investigation for a sexual assault in Bali. Almost zero media coverage of that.

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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by Northern Raider »

gergreg wrote:Interestingly a Melbourne Demons player is currently under investigation for a sexual assault in Bali. Almost zero media coverage of that.

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....because Melbourne Demons
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by Notaroboticfish »

Yeah, I have never met a single demons fan in my life, nor have I ever talked to someone about them nor have I ever been able to name a single Demons player. If you were to name the most irrelevant professional sports team ever, the Melbourne Demons would surely have to be up there


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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by cat »

The fact hayne is a bigger name player and the horrific event in melbourne yesterday has limited the media attention on the afl

On a side note channel 9 showed an old interview with hayne, loved the part where he says he was on holidays in Israel and said to the tour guide how cool it would be to be baptised in the river Jordan

The tour guide said he could do it so they did lol

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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by gerg »

I was just trying to highlight how the different sporting organisations are reported on, in Australia. The profile of the player and/or club should have no bearing on an incident of this nature and using yesterday's Melbourne incident as a reason for the lack of media attention is ridiculous. It just highlights, yet again, the free pass that AFL receive in the media compared to the NRL.

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Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by Notaroboticfish »

If this was a no-name/anonymous NRL player it’d be exactly the same. No one really cared when it was Jarrod Mullin or Tim Simona. This isn’t an NRL vs AFL thing, this is a famous person that’s already pretty universally hated vs an anonymous person on the most irrelevant sporting franchise ever thing


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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by -TW- »

It's click media.. the basis of all **** journalism in 2017
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by gerg »

Notaroboticfish wrote:If this was a no-name/anonymous NRL player it’d be exactly the same. No one really cared when it was Jarrod Mullin or Tim Simona. This isn’t an NRL vs AFL thing, this is a famous person that’s already pretty universally hated vs an anonymous person on the most irrelevant sporting franchise ever thing


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Actually Simona was on the front page of the DT several times and received plenty of coverage. Mullen was also covered in the media. Just like with all things AFL they close ranks and refuse to comment until their investigation is over and the issues quickly get forgotten. Even during the whole Essendon ASADA thing there were less than a handful of Journos that actually persisted with investigating it, one of which was receiving death threats from Essendon fans.

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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by gangrenous »

Fuifui Bradbrad wrote:Bit of a coincidence he got a dream to get out of Dodge and play Union the same month she went to the police last year


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Interesting observation.
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by Botman »

Notaroboticfish wrote:Yeah, I have never met a single demons fan in my life, nor have I ever talked to someone about them nor have I ever been able to name a single Demons player. If you were to name the most irrelevant professional sports team ever, the Melbourne Demons would surely have to be up there


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Haha it’s so true
The demons could go on a purge style massacre in the Melbourne cbd and no one would care
Even Paul Roos couldn’t get anyone to give a **** about them

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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by Green eyed Mick »

Victim was reportedly a Christian who was saving herself for marriage.
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by BJ »

Green eyed Mick wrote:Victim was reportedly a Christian who was saving herself for marriage.
Just like a Marist Brother.
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by Northern Raider »

The statement from her lawyer further strengthens my suspicians. She had a night of drunken sex with a footballer and ended up regretting it. The rape claim is a way of diverting guilt.
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by T_R »

Northern Raider wrote:The statement from her lawyer further strengthens my suspicians. She had a night of drunken sex with a footballer and ended up regretting it. The rape claim is a way of diverting guilt.
Wow
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by Green eyed Mick »

Northern Raider wrote:The statement from her lawyer further strengthens my suspicians. She had a night of drunken sex with a footballer and ended up regretting it. The rape claim is a way of diverting guilt.
That's some brilliant deduction Sherlock.
Last edited by Green eyed Mick on December 25, 2017, 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by Northern Raider »

So this scenario is not possible?

Ok, I stand corrected
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by gerg »

Northern Raider wrote:The statement from her lawyer further strengthens my suspicians. She had a night of drunken sex with a footballer and ended up regretting it. The rape claim is a way of diverting guilt.
I kind of agree with you. Some of it just doesn't add up. I'd say her expectations of what would happen both short and long term didn't at all match up with what he wanted. He wanted the quick and easy and then move on - which is very common with the younger 'tinder' generation. She wanted to be swept off her feet by an athlete and live happily ever after. At a wild guess.

The things that don't add up. She obviously knew him in some way, through the mutual friends. The friends didn't prevent her from leaving with him. There is no way a female spends time in a club with a prospective male companion and then leaves the club with him if she isn't interested in some sort of relations with him. I agree this does not signify consent however that goes back to my first point about them wanting different things. Nowhere in anything I have read does it state that she tried to stop him from having sex with her. She doesn't say 'no' or 'stop' from what I have read.

She was too drunk to consent but somehow recalled an 'uber', specific words he said to her prior to the sexual act and then the morning after inexplicably took a pair of his underwear? She took a while to report it but from what I know this isn't uncommon. I don't necessarily understand how a financial settlement will help her overcome anything? Seems like a golddigger.

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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by BadnMean »

gergreg wrote:
Northern Raider wrote: There is no way a female spends time in a club with a prospective male companion and then leaves the club with him if she isn't interested in some sort of relations with him. I agree this does not signify consent however that goes back to my first point about them wanting different things.

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This where you are just flat out wrong. She often might want consenting relations. But consent is not implied. She may indeed sober and decide she doesn't like this geezer, or feels ill, or gets too drunk beyond the point of consent. She may indeed just want to spend time with someone interesting but not want to go beyond whatever limit of contact she feels comfortable in- be that conversation, kissing or whatever. This right to determine how far interactions go cannot be removed or scoffed at.

What you have said comes dangerously close to saying if she leaves a club with a guy she is asking for it and deserves whatever happens. Which pretty much removes the concept of consent.

I don't know what happened, no charges were laid and it may well be a story. But you can't just blanket rule any girl going somewhere with a guy is asking for sex. Even if they often are, often is not always, there needs to room for, "sometimes it isn't."
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by Northern Raider »

BadnMean wrote:
gergreg wrote:
Northern Raider wrote: There is no way a female spends time in a club with a prospective male companion and then leaves the club with him if she isn't interested in some sort of relations with him. I agree this does not signify consent however that goes back to my first point about them wanting different things.

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This where you are just flat out wrong. She often might want consenting relations. But consent is not implied. She may indeed sober and decide she doesn't like this geezer, or feels ill, or gets too drunk beyond the point of consent. She may indeed just want to spend time with someone interesting but not want to go beyond whatever limit of contact she feels comfortable in- be that conversation, kissing or whatever. This right to determine how far interactions go cannot be removed or scoffed at.

What you have said comes dangerously close to saying if she leaves a club with a guy she is asking for it and deserves whatever happens. Which pretty much removes the concept of consent.

I don't know what happened, no charges were laid and it may well be a story. But you can't just blanket rule any girl going somewhere with a guy is asking for sex. Even if they often are, often is not always, there needs to room for, "sometimes it isn't."
You quoted that like it was me saying it. I agree with what you are saying but I don’t think that’s what gergreg was implying. He said relations, not sexual encounter.
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by dubby »

-TW- wrote:It's click media.. the basis of all **** journalism in 2017
Nailed it

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The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by dubby »

There is no point speculating as there is most likely a lot of information we are unaware of.

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The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by gerg »

BadnMean wrote:
gergreg wrote:
Northern Raider wrote: There is no way a female spends time in a club with a prospective male companion and then leaves the club with him if she isn't interested in some sort of relations with him. I agree this does not signify consent however that goes back to my first point about them wanting different things.

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This where you are just flat out wrong. She often might want consenting relations. But consent is not implied. She may indeed sober and decide she doesn't like this geezer, or feels ill, or gets too drunk beyond the point of consent. She may indeed just want to spend time with someone interesting but not want to go beyond whatever limit of contact she feels comfortable in- be that conversation, kissing or whatever. This right to determine how far interactions go cannot be removed or scoffed at.

What you have said comes dangerously close to saying if she leaves a club with a guy she is asking for it and deserves whatever happens. Which pretty much removes the concept of consent.

I don't know what happened, no charges were laid and it may well be a story. But you can't just blanket rule any girl going somewhere with a guy is asking for sex. Even if they often are, often is not always, there needs to room for, "sometimes it isn't."
Can't you **** read? The sentence directly after the bit you bolded says exactly what you said.

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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by T_R »

The 'revenge report' is a myth. It doesn't happen.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by Green eyed Mick »

Exactly. Studies have shown false accusations of sexual assault occur roughly 4% of the time.

Here is another interesting stat: In 2009-10 only 3% of sexual assault charges in Victoria resulted in a conviction.

The reality is Women rarely lie about sexual assault and men get away with it all the time. That doesn't mean we should rush to judge Hayne but on the balance of probabilities he probably did was has been alleged and that is why IMO the NRL can't afford to ignore this.
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by gerg »

Green eyed Mick wrote:Exactly. Studies have shown false accusations of sexual assault occur roughly 4% of the time.
Are you able to detail these studies? How have they come to the result?



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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by Green eyed Mick »

gergreg wrote:
Green eyed Mick wrote:Exactly. Studies have shown false accusations of sexual assault occur roughly 4% of the time.
Are you able to detail these studies? How have they come to the result?



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UK Home Office and FBI have both studied it and come up with similar results.

Would you lie about someone raping you?
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by Botman »

I like to work big to small
What ever the false accusation rate it, it’s dwarfed by a multiplier of what? Hundreds? Thousands? Of women who either don’t report out of fear of the process or do report and never see justice served

I am frankly far more concerned about men routinely getting away with sexual assaults than I am of the very rare cases of false accusations

So spare me the men’s rights activist Bull
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by Toviii »

Preach Pigman! God almighty.


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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by gerg »

Whoa, ease up. I'm not at all trying to pick sides in this. I'm just trying to be a little objective. Rape is such a grey area of the law in many cases. It is predominantly a situation of one person's story against another's. Which is what this case has become, though we have only heard one person's side of the story and some immediately think he is guilty.

Her sueing him for half to a million dollars doesn't get her virginity back. I don't see how it eases any psychological trauma she has experienced. She went through other legal avenues and didn't proceed due to a lack of evidence. It may not be, but it could easily be interpreted as a revenge tactic. Punish his hip pocket, his reputation, his ongoing or future relationships.

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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by Botman »

Why is that anything to interpret
She was unable to achieve what she felt was justice in the criminal system because as you state, rape is very hard to prove in many cases

Civil court is all that is left for her to gain her sense of justice. Why hold that against her? Or rather why assume the worst of her?

Especially when the character in question is a professional sports star who generally speaking should NEVER be given the BOTD haha

I’m more inclined to believe nevelle no one was assaulted by mega star sports player than I am mega sports star is being railroaded. The balance of probabilities skew heavily in the favour of egotistical sports star feeling like he could do what he wants to whom he wants over the 4% false accusation stat

But that’s just me
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by gerg »

Absolutely. But as stated we have only heard her side of the story thus far.

I'm sure he will hire the best 'silk' money can buy. He will play this whole scenario perfectly. He will more than likely get off as a result. The only people who truly know what happened were the two of them and even they cannot and will not agree on what actually took place. Who are we to judge whether he is guilty or not? How then can a 'civil' court prove either way what actually occurred without sufficient evidence?



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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by Manbush »

BJ wrote:
Green eyed Mick wrote:Victim was reportedly a Christian who was saving herself for marriage.
Just like a Marist Brother.
:lol:
I bow down to thee oh great Nickman, the wisest of the wise, your political adroitness is unsurpassed, your sagacity is unmatched, your wisdom shines through on this forum amongst us mere mortals as bright as your scalp under the light of a full moon, never shall I doubt your analytical prowess again. You are my hero, my lord, my savior, may you accept my offerings so you continue to bless us with your genius.
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by T_R »

gergreg wrote:Absolutely. But as stated we have only heard her side of the story thus far.

I'm sure he will hire the best 'silk' money can buy. He will play this whole scenario perfectly. He will more than likely get off as a result. The only people who truly know what happened were the two of them and even they cannot and will not agree on what actually took place. Who are we to judge whether he is guilty or not? How then can a 'civil' court prove either way what actually occurred without sufficient evidence?



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From the documents I've seen, intercourse has been admitted. Therefore, I would attempt to demonstrate through witnesses that she left the club drunk enough that she could not have provided informed consent.

No need to argue what happened behind closed doors.
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Son, we live in a world that has forums, and those forums have to be guarded by Mods. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Nickman? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Lucy, and you curse GE. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that GE’s moderation, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, keeps threads on track and under the appropriately sized, highlighted green headings.
You want moderation because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that forum -- you need me on that forum. We use words like "stay on topic," "use the appropriate forum," "please delete." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very moderation that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you get a green handle and edit a post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think about moderation.
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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by gerg »

It's been a long time since it occurred otherwise they could simply refer to the CCTV from the club and his apartment (depending on whether he was in a complex) to determine how drunk she was. Maybe the police reviewed the footage during their initial investigation and could provide an insight or even retained copies for their records?
I don't imagine it would be easy to prove somebody's level of drunkenness from eyewitnesses?

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Re: Parramatta Eels 2017

Post by dubby »

The only way to 'prove ' levels of alcohol is a blood test

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The spiral of silence refers to the idea that when people fail to speak, the price of speaking rises. As the price to speak rises, still fewer speak out, which further causes the price to rise, so that fewer people yet will speak out, until a whole culture or nation is silenced. This is what happened in Germany.

If you do not speak, you are not being neutral, but are contributing to the success of the thing you refuse to name and condemn.
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